|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
|
|
One has to realize that much of radical Islam, and the entire agenda of groups like ISIL and Al Qaeda, is of a political nature rather than a religious one. Religion is a tool used to radicalize people for expedient purposes. According to King Abdulla of Jordan, in an interview I saw recently, radical Islam makes up about 2% of Muslims, and the remaining 98% of Sunni Muslims are peaceful, and have deep sympathy with Judaism and Christianity.
I do understand that 2% of over a billion people is a lot, but this tendency to paint all Muslims with such a broad brush just doesn't reflect the facts.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
morpheus85
Stranger


Registered: 11/16/16
Posts: 21
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
|
|
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: A phobia is an irrational fear.
Is it irrational to fear people who would readily kill you over a cartoon, would behead you for not accepting their religion, who would blow themselves up in the marketplace while killing others, whose core book demands the deaths of non-believers? Need I continue?
Average muslim is not even close to that kind of mindset. Most are normal people with different habits because of social conditioning. Its loud minorities that cause problem (ISIS) and then media makes it sensational and starts fearmongering, a tactic that works very well, even made Trump elected
|
OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
|
|
First there is no dividing line between politics, culture and religion in Islam. They are intermingled.
Second the Quran commands its followers to target and kill non-believers: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx
--------------------
Edited by OrgoneConclusion (11/19/16 12:55 PM)
|
PlantManBee
undifferentiated



Registered: 11/17/16
Posts: 360
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
|
|
I'm WAY more afraid of Xenophobes.
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
|
|
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Second the Quran commands its followers to target and kill non-believers: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx
That doesn't mean that they're doing it. I'm sure your average Muslim, and certainly your middle-class Muslim, understands that the Koran was written in the seventh century and that the atmosphere was different then. All sorts of people love to point out the violent aspects of the Koran; the Bible has many as well. So what? You don't see 98% of Muslims out there killing people, or really misbehaving much at all.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
|
|
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Fists there is no dividing line between politics, culture and religion in Islam. They are intermingled. ...
excellent example of how attitude edits meaning and changes the interaction.
I think maybe you meant First or perhaps Fisting, but the meaning is garbled because you are defending a position you perceive is unjustly under attack.
If you are spending time at "http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/" you are going to get stirred into this kind of propaganda.
Please note that the idea of jihad evolved by mixing the tantric (like Vajrakumara ~ Vajrakilaya) visionary self transcendence mixed with judeo-christian mysticism.
BASICALLY you wage holy Jihad on the ego (the infidel), to perfect the self.

The concepts are poetic and transcendent but straight forward, yet they are well beyond the comprehension of the masses who interpret them in a degenerate way.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
|
|
Quote:
DividedQuantum said:
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Second the Quran commands its followers to target and kill non-believers: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx
That doesn't mean that they're doing it. I'm sure your average Muslim, and certainly your middle-class Muslim, understands that the Koran was written in the seventh century and that the atmosphere was different then. All sorts of people love to point out the violent aspects of the Koran; the Bible has many as well. So what? You don't see 98% of Muslims out there killing people, or really misbehaving much at all.
So is a "good" Muslim one who follows the Quran or the one who ignores many of its imperatives?
Quote:
You don't see 98% of Muslims out there killing people, or really misbehaving much at all
751 no go zones in France are ALL made up of extremists? That is a lot of people!
A handful of extremists could not make the rape rate in Sweden sky rocket out of control. It takes thousands upon thousands of sexual assaults to move the stats so radically.
And then you overlook what many mainstream Muslims are declaring about their goal to take over Europe. Thousands of immigrants in Italy are threatening to take over the Vatican. On and on it goes.
--------------------
|
OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
|
|
Quote:
If you are spending time at "http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/" you are going to get stirred into this kind of propaganda.
If by spending time, you mean 2 minutes to link to the Koran verses...
Now are you saying those verses are inaccurate, else why would you call them propaganda?
--------------------
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
|
|
I would say a good Muslim is, in part, a non-violent one. I would say a good Christian is also, in part, a non-violent one, too. Incidentally, one can find plenty of juicy violence in the Bible. Take 1 Samuel, when God instructs King Saul to attack the Amalekites: "And utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them," God says through the prophet Samuel. "But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey."
As far as the zones in France, maybe it also has something to do with the fact that the French hate Muslims, and are extremely racist and bigoted toward them. The French are not innocent bystanders here.
I find it extremely hard to believe that the majority of Muslims intend to take over Europe. I think we have a case here of a few bad apples spoiling the whole bunch. And I don't really understand the issue of rape in Sweden, but I am quite sure it's not as simple as a bunch of towel-heads hunting women indiscriminately.
The point is that the average Muslim is no more dangerous than the average Mormon. I'm getting sick of the hatred, personally. Nevermind the fact that it's precisely what the extremists want -- to have people going on this way, and conducting themselves as if there should be a war against Islam.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
|
|
Get sick of the hatred, but it is flowing far more FROM Muslims than towards them.
Here is a good page with links and stats that tells much more of the story: https://carm.org/islamic-muslim-statistics-on-violence-rape-terror-sharia-isis-welfare
Here are a few of several dozen descriptors:
Saudi Arabia, 92% of Saudis say ISIS conforms to Islamic Law, "Informal poll of Saudis in August 2014 shows 92% agree that Islamic State (ISIS) “conforms to the values of Islam and Islamic law.” (https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2014/08/24/92-of-saudis-believes-that-isis-conforms-to-the-values-of-islam-and-islamic-law-survey/)
America, 38% of American Muslims says ISIS beliefs are correct, "The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015): 38% of Muslim-Americans say Islamic State (ISIS) beliefs are Islamic or correct. (43% disagree)." (http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/150612-CSP-Polling-Company-Nationwide-Online-Survey-of-Muslims-Topline-Poll-Data.pdf)
Britain, about 1/2 of Muslims support ISIS, ICM (Mirror) Poll 2015: 1.5 Million British Muslims support the Islamic State, about half the total population." (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/muslim-leader-isis-supporting-brits-disenfranchised-6018357)
51% of U.S. Muslims want choice of Sharia, "51% "More than half (51%) of U.S. Muslims polled also believe either that they should have the choice of American or shariah courts, or that they should have their own tribunals to apply shariah. Only 39% of those polled said that Muslims in the U.S. should be subject to American courts."(https://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/2015/06/23/nationwide-poll-of-us-muslims-shows-thousands-support-shariah-jihad/)
1/5th of Muslims in U.S. approve of violence in order to institute sharia, "Nearly one-fifth of Muslim respondents said that the use of violence in the United States is justified in order to make shariah the law of the land in this country."(https://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/2015/06/23/nationwide-poll-of-us-muslims-shows-thousands-support-shariah-jihad/)
These numbers are a far cry from the 2% number you quoted.
--------------------
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
|
|
Quote:

According to a Brookings report from last January:
40% of Americans believe most Muslims oppose ISIS. 14% think most Muslims support ISIS. And 44% (the plurality) of Americans believe Muslim views are evenly balanced on the issue.
American perceptions of Muslims’ support for the Islamic State are all over the map. And you only have to search Google for “how many muslims support isis” to see why.
The first result shows “81% of respondents support the Islamic State.” The second result, “Most dislike ISIS in Muslim countries.“
The range of answers to this question reported by the media is enormous, partly because much of it comes from online polls, social media sentiment analysis, and other non-scientific / unrepresentative studies. Additionally, the way the subject gets reported is often very misleading.
Last month, the International Business Times cited a study from Pew Research Center concluding ISIS is “almost universally hated.” American Thinker summarized the same study saying, “between 63 million and 287 million ISIS supporters in just 11 countries.”
What the Muslim world actually thinks of ISIS
Looking only at scientific opinion polls, the results are actually very consistent.
The figures in the map below come from surveys conducted by six different research organizations, covering a combined 20 countries in the Muslim world.

In the Muslim world, support for ISIS is low across the board.
In 15 of the 20 countries shown, support for ISIS is in the single digits. And with the exception of Syria, in no country is it greater than 15%.
http://metrocosm.com/support-isis-muslim-world-perceptions-vs-reality/
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
|
|
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: A phobia is an irrational fear.
Is it irrational to fear people who would readily kill you over a cartoon, would behead you for not accepting their religion, who would blow themselves up in the marketplace while killing others, whose core book demands the deaths of non-believers? Need I continue?
I don't think so, but I'm afraid of all Abrahamic faith, democracy to a big extent too.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
|
quinn
some kinda love


Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 6,799
|
|
so what's better?
-------------------- dripping with fantasy
|
CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
|
Re: Islamophobia [Re: quinn]
#23849163 - 11/19/16 04:33 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
I don't have all the answers, but I think we should vet people with some sort of reality check before we allow them to have an opinion or even cast a ballot. If people don't have a rudimentary understanding of science, do you think they have a rudimentary understanding of civics? How many adults in the USA right now do you think can tell you basic concepts like how many people are in the house, senate, supreme court justice, or even what the 10th amendment is?
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
|
quinn
some kinda love


Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 6,799
|
|
lol not saying i have any better answers but revoking ppls right to vote sounds pretty deplorable and dangerous in the wrong hands..
-------------------- dripping with fantasy
|
CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
|
Re: Islamophobia [Re: quinn]
#23849237 - 11/19/16 04:57 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Oh I agree, it could be a disaster too. But yah gotta admit people are pretty damned stupid and it's dangerous and deplorable that they get a say in who is president of the united states.... I don't have the answer, aside from investing more money into education as opposed to say the military, prison systems etc.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
|
|
I'm right with you, CJ. Our democracy may be obsolete, is the thing. This election seems to illustrate that democracy just doesn't work anymore. The mob is clearly not qualified to make such important decisions. And look at who was on the goddam ballot. Maybe first and foremost we need to find a way to get better candidates. Of course, the nomination process is totally fucked, and hardly anyone decent wants to run, so good luck to us.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
quinn
some kinda love


Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 6,799
|
|
the current system may be obsolete but democracy as an idea surely is still one of the fairest forms of government we could hope for? (or at least an important element in any form of government)...
i wonder if people were more involved in government, (perhaps obligated to perform some civic duty once a week or join a council or something), whether we would still have these reactive protest votes against the system..
-------------------- dripping with fantasy
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
|
Re: Islamophobia [Re: quinn]
#23849500 - 11/19/16 06:14 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
quinn said: the current system may be obsolete but democracy as an idea surely is still one of the fairest forms of government we could hope for? (or at least an important element in any form of government)...
Perhaps so, but it's really failing right now. First Brexit, then Trump, and it's looking somewhat likely that the French may elect Marie Le Pen, the utlra-right winger.
Quote:
i wonder if people were more involved in government, (perhaps obligated to perform some civic duty once a week or join a council or something), whether we would still have these reactive protest votes against the system..
Oh, I have no doubt we wouldn't. I think a lot of the fuel for the fire of this election was plain ignorance. If people had a better understanding of how government actually works -- at the level of salaried staffers and employees working to enable the country to run -- I think first of all that the result would have been different and secondly, that democracy would work a whole lot better in such a scenario.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
|
|
Post deleted by laughingdogReason for deletion: x
|
|