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Offlinespecialpeopleclub
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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: ballsalsa]
    #23994783 - 01/09/17 10:26 AM (7 years, 21 days ago)

You say really like it isnt self evident from the social experimentation and the spectacular failure, the only exceptions where other money was their to offset the inefficiency of the government.

There isnt a government big enough to accurately price everything in relationship to everything else. The simplest parts of devices price's are detemened by manynfactors, such as the labor and resources of the fabricators, the availability of materials, demand for the product. Its not decided by one person, but a negotiation.

There also isnt competition, which helps set wages and inscentivise a better product. The cars built by the USSR were both terrible well we were making quality products inexpensively


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23994787 - 01/09/17 10:31 AM (7 years, 21 days ago)

So there is your argument for prices.

Now, back to the whole distributing resources to where they are most needed, thing you mentioned.
:popcorn:


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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: ballsalsa]
    #23994806 - 01/09/17 10:38 AM (7 years, 21 days ago)

Are you trying to imply it doesn't? Are you trying to imply because some still go without hat it failed in what it does?

Well liberals will complain about the disparity between rich and poor, what other way could society distribute resources? When you distribute them too readily, as a governmenwouod to ake care of its subjects, it disinscentivises people to produce for the society.

Its all very complicated. Capitalism has worked better then socialism over t last century


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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: specialpeopleclub] * 1
    #23994814 - 01/09/17 10:41 AM (7 years, 21 days ago)

I'm not implying anything except for a desire for you to further explain your comments.


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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: ballsalsa]
    #23994829 - 01/09/17 10:45 AM (7 years, 21 days ago)

Its complicated, and we haven't had a real capitalistic system in many decades, as the government has grown to intersect in many aspects of our life.


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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: specialpeopleclub] * 1
    #23994833 - 01/09/17 10:47 AM (7 years, 21 days ago)

I wonder if that was in response to some inadequacy in unfettered capitalism...


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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: ballsalsa]
    #23994848 - 01/09/17 10:56 AM (7 years, 21 days ago)

A ercieved inadequacy. Outpr values have also changed. People don't have kids to have indentured servants anymore.

We don't know what sorts of ways would have been naturally devised to express these values in a free market cause t government took control. Whenever government interferes in markets it skewes this NHS lkempricing and the cost of labor


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23995705 - 01/09/17 04:32 PM (7 years, 21 days ago)

The less Government intervention, the smaller the middle class and the greater the income inequality.

Do you know of any exceptions to this?  :shrug:


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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23995767 - 01/09/17 04:51 PM (7 years, 21 days ago)

Capitalism created he middle class. Income inequality is a feature, not a problem. The government doesn't create economics. Its a natural process and burocracy impinges upon it


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23995827 - 01/09/17 05:09 PM (7 years, 21 days ago)

and yet what did all the Trump supporters want out of his presidency...?

what was it?

oh yeah...to settle issues of income inequality.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23995846 - 01/09/17 05:18 PM (7 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
Capitalism created he middle class. Income inequality is a feature, not a problem. The government doesn't create economics. Its a natural process and burocracy impinges upon it



Income inequality was huge in America until the New Deal (heavy Government involvement) created a very strong middle class.

I guess you're new to this forum, so you're going to want to see all the charts that have been presented here over and over again which prove this, right?


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (01/09/17 05:26 PM)


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Offlinespecialpeopleclub
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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23995862 - 01/09/17 05:27 PM (7 years, 21 days ago)

I don't know what you are responding to. The way I see it, income inequality snt the problem, its economic mobility, drug tests, and knowing what to do if college doesn't fit you.
There aren't really good resources, the adults in my life literally told me that its something you need to figure out naturally. The adults in my life didn't give me a good idea of what careers had a good outlook.

I remember that my town is almost literally shit a maybe somewhere else the are component adults thborepair kids for society

The new deal crated the modern welfare state. I'm pretty sure it also created our terrible monoculture based farming system too.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: specialpeopleclub] * 1
    #23995868 - 01/09/17 05:28 PM (7 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
Income inequality is a feature (of capitalism), not a problem.



My mistake.  I missed that part.  You already agree capitalism leads to massive income inequality, you just don't think it's a problem.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23995882 - 01/09/17 05:31 PM (7 years, 21 days ago)

Younoporate under the assumption it isnt. A well educated worker should make far more then some cashier. You people that have a lot of money finance large portions of the economy. Bybtryng to destroy non problems and tampering being people naturally trading, working, acquiring resources, some of the greatest tragidies have occured


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: specialpeopleclub] * 3
    #23995905 - 01/09/17 05:37 PM (7 years, 21 days ago)

LOL enjoy the trash heap where you will be thrown in your utopia.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: specialpeopleclub] * 2
    #23995907 - 01/09/17 05:38 PM (7 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
The new deal crated the modern welfare state.



Perhaps.  But it also created a strong middle class.

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
I'm pretty sure it also created our terrible monoculture based farming system too.



How so?  The "terrible" (your words) monoculture based farming was the result of market forces pushing farmers to get maximum yields and profits from their crops.  That's just capitalism.

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
A well educated worker should make far more then some cashier.



I absolutely agree with that.  I don't agree that someone born into a rich family should be put into a position where he earns hundreds of times more than a well education worker.

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
By trying to destroy non problems and tampering being people naturally trading, working, acquiring resources, some of the greatest tragidies have occured



Like what?


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23995977 - 01/09/17 05:53 PM (7 years, 21 days ago)

No, the way we do agriculture was a government subsidy based thing.

So I shouldn't get the nafits of being born fortunate? Who are you to decide what level of help from my family is wrong?

The war wbrought us out of he depression. We took a huge amount of wealth out of Europe.

I already mentioned the largest starvations ever, due to tu poor policies of centralized government.

Socialism, communism, is literally the worst an most dangerous idea that people have ever come up with. It has proven so, but supporters say it hasent been tried because their idea out hasn't. Its so dishonest


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: specialpeopleclub] * 2
    #23996114 - 01/09/17 06:24 PM (7 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
No, the way we do agriculture was a government subsidy based thing.




No, monoculture is a natural extension of the industrialization of agriculture.  Farmers (or farming interests in the post depression era) need to make money.  Monoculture is more economically efficient because of the ability to standardize equipment and reduce labor costs.  Uniformity of the end product is also important for marketability.  Modern tomatoes are red because someone decided that consumers respond better to red tomatoes.  The Russet Burbank is the mot grown potato variety (by far) because the market (capitalism) demands long golden french fries that are the same whether in France, China, or the U.S.  Do frm subsidies play a role in what things are grown?  Sure.  Sugar guarantees are a good example, but that has nothing at all to do with monoculture as a practice in agriculture.

Quote:


So I shouldn't get the nafits of being born fortunate? Who are you to decide what level of help from my family is wrong?




it isn't wrong to have help in life.  it might be wrong to have help in life but pretend that you did it all yourself.

Quote:


The war wbrought us out of he depression. We took a huge amount of wealth out of Europe.




this old saw.  I'll leave this one for Fal

Quote:


I already mentioned the largest starvations ever, due to tu poor policies of centralized government.

Socialism, communism, is literally the worst an most dangerous idea that people have ever come up with. It has proven so, but supporters say it hasent been tried because their idea out hasn't. Its so dishonest




literally the worst and most dangerous? ever?  on what grounds?


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: specialpeopleclub] * 2
    #23996136 - 01/09/17 06:30 PM (7 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
No, the way we do agriculture was a government subsidy based thing.



Monoculture based farming provides increased efficiency in planting and harvest, with or without Government subsidies.

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
So I shouldn't get the nafits of being born fortunate? Who are you to decide what level of help from my family is wrong?



I guess that's the argument that was made by nobles to peasants under the Feudal system.  But some believe in equal opportunity.

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
The war wbrought us out of he depression. We took a huge amount of wealth out of Europe.



That's been debunked many times here.  But if you can explain how this happened, please do.  Keep in mind, Europe also had an explosion of the middle class after World War II.  :smirk:

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
I already mentioned the largest starvations ever, due to tu poor policies of centralized government.



I must have missed that.  Are you talking about Russia under a Stalin dictatorship?

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
Socialism, communism, is literally the worst an most dangerous idea that people have ever come up with. It has proven so, but supporters say it hasent been tried because their idea out hasn't. Its so dishonest



I think you're dishonest.  Communism did pretty well in the USSR after Stalin, but the West did everything it possibly could to ensure it's demise.

Edit:  Looks like balls beat me to most of the responses.  :toast:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23996176 - 01/09/17 06:39 PM (7 years, 21 days ago)

:nodofunderstanding:


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