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Shop: Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale, Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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OfflineHedonist
Stranger
Registered: 08/06/14
Posts: 114
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: Can someone write an argument in favor of open borders. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23848432 - 11/19/16 12:25 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Ok well I think borders are natural. The problem with the left is it's anthropocentric, believing that culture completely divides us from nature. Every organism needs a habitat a territory on which to sustain itself. No Borders means everyone floods the good places until there is not enough to go around.  We are dependant on resources and land.  Many of you seem to have forgotten that.
Marxist ideology in general presents an artificial way of living.

I don't know what the best system is yet.  But it should surly take human nature into account, and use it to create the best result possible.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
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Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
Re: Can someone write an argument in favor of open borders. [Re: OrgoneConclusion] * 1
    #23849543 - 11/19/16 06:29 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Better to be raped than be labelled a bigot. :crazy:

Can we bring back the Vikings?




Fran Tarkenton is too old.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: Can someone write an argument in favor of open borders. [Re: Hedonist]
    #23849678 - 11/19/16 07:22 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

There's a river across most of the US and Mexican border and building an actual wall would be logistically impractical and fragrantly expensive.


The best Trump has offered is two barb wire fences in some apparent crossing hot spots.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



Edited by sudly (11/19/16 07:27 PM)


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Invisiblephio


Registered: 10/07/16
Posts: 369
Re: Can someone write an argument in favor of open borders. [Re: Hedonist]
    #23849728 - 11/19/16 07:47 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Borders exist for a reason and are natural.
Take a look at all of creation at the macro and micro scale and name one case in which there isn't a 'border'.

The data packets you are using to communicate over the internet right now have borders.
It helps you distinguish between data frames so everything isn't a jumbled mess.

Your body has a physical border (biggest organ you have: skin) to protect it from undesired and outside forces.

Cells have borders. Your brain has a blood barrier to prevent harmful things from entering a very unprotected zone of your body.

Why would a country have a border and why should it be protected?
Because different countries have different laws, customs, and cultures.
In order to preserve and respect them as liberals claim they want to do, you have to have a clear line as to what is what at the point of intersection between two different and sometimes conflicting places.

For example, your brain and your eyes function on a completely different biological basis than the rest of your body. So, they have very strict and militarized borders separating them so both sides stay safe and preserved.. At points of exchange, you establish and agree upon mutually beneficial rules that both parties agree upon.

This scales up and down to almost everything in the known universe.


It should be clear to any human being with half a brain as to why borders exist.
The only people who seem to be confused about it are those who haven't learned or faced any real world consequences from not having any. As such, being against borders is a position of ignorance and in some cases its willful.


Example case :
If we took you from (safe bubble head city) and put you on the border of mexico where drug lords and gangs from another country frequent and you get robbed at gun point and have your wife/daughter raped while a coked up drug runner cuts your wife's ear off for a souvenir and shots you in the leg on the way out, I'm sure you wouldn't be an idiot who doesn't lock their doors at night and is a proponent of open borders.

This is a reality for some people in this country. To say 'who cares' or 'fuck those' people is unAmerican.

But, some ignorant person off in paradise city far removed from such realities who has no compassion for their fellow country man would probably say something vile like : Well, that doesn't happen 'often' or 'ever' where i'm at so screw the Americans whose lives are ruined by a policy... and this is why a certain party lost the election. As there are tons of people who are not living in the lap of luxury in this country who face harsh realities... And i guess they returned the favor and said 'fuck you' back.

Harmful things exist in this world. People make mistakes.
Borders allow a person to be aware that they are crossing from x to y and that there are potential consequences for doing so. This gives the 'border' crosser an opportunity to correct and avoid consequences and that allows the other person to feel safe/secure and conduct their life with grace knowing that another human being has advanced warning given to them before they violate the norms, customs, cultures, and laws of another place.


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Invisiblephio


Registered: 10/07/16
Posts: 369
Re: Can someone write an argument in favor of open borders. [Re: phio]
    #23849742 - 11/19/16 07:50 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

On more comment...
With the amount of information being made available to human beings via ever advancing technologies, maintaining positions centered on ignorance will have ever increasing consequences.

Borders are a fundamental concept that any adult should understand.
The fact that people aren't able to understand something so basic means that consequences are on the horizon and maybe when those consequences walk through your open/nonexistent door and harm you, the point will be driven home.


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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 7 hours, 14 minutes
Re: Can someone write an argument in favor of open borders. [Re: phio] * 2
    #23849904 - 11/19/16 08:59 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

If you don't have a border you don't have a country.  Humans are naturally tribal, that's never going away.

Look at what happened when the EU decided to open its borders for Africans and Middle Eastern migrants two years ago, it's turned into a complete social and economic disaster.


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Invisiblephio


Registered: 10/07/16
Posts: 369
Re: Can someone write an argument in favor of open borders. [Re: qman]
    #23850023 - 11/19/16 10:12 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
If you don't have a border you don't have a country.  Humans are naturally tribal, that's never going away.

Look at what happened when the EU decided to open its borders for Africans and Middle Eastern migrants two years ago, it's turned into a complete social and economic disaster.




Indeed. Interestingly, the women who are now seemingly the biggest victims of this tragedy were the most silent and supportive :

as good men spoke out against the potentials for disaster :


Now as bands of refugees roam the streets raping and pillaging, I wonder who they cry out to for justice and order.... Interesting given the heightened backdrop of women's rights...


Overall, It seems that such fundamental understanding is wiped from the collective conscious on a cyclical basis so as to regulate people to relearning the hard lessons that were learned in previous cycle of human history ongoing for 1000s of years. I guess it regulates the pace of things.... Maybe its a feature not a bug.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
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Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
Re: Can someone write an argument in favor of open borders. [Re: phio] * 1
    #23862054 - 11/23/16 10:03 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Why can't we rape indiscriminately here in the USA? :crankey:

Oh wait, I almost forgot about frat parties! :cookiemonster:


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: Can someone write an argument in favor of open borders. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #23862077 - 11/23/16 10:12 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

And affluent people.



--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
Re: Can someone write an argument in favor of open borders. [Re: sudly] * 1
    #23862617 - 11/24/16 05:45 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

so regular people need borders around everything since the consequences can sneak in at any weak spot in their homes and daily pathways.
but affluent people need double borders around them so that their servants are protected from consequences and so that they are protected from their servants.

it's like wearing two condoms at once to be be privileged.

after all, people who live in glass houses should not stow thrones.

------

on an obscurely related matter, if you are lucky enough to have boarders be sure to collect competitive rent.

------

also change your locks if the boarders change


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: Can someone write an argument in favor of open borders. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23862626 - 11/24/16 05:56 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Affluent people can buy power in good lawyers to get the best outcome with the least severity.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisiblebirdeatingspider
Stranger in Paradise
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Registered: 12/18/14
Posts: 2,994
Loc: so many roads
Re: Can someone write an argument in favor of open borders. [Re: Hedonist]
    #23867252 - 11/25/16 08:17 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

It seems to me the people who fight tooth and nail to enforce boundaries are at odds with an out of control life.  Where their property line ends they have closed off theirselves from the rest of the world, fortified by ego.

I do believe it is natural and important to have boundaries, but am not sure if a wall falls into either of those categories. 

Despite being religious about locking my doors, someone once smashed my windows to steal a head unit and cds- one of the most endearing qualities of human nature is charismatic drive.  Where there's a will there's a way.

Quote:

In a 2011 New Yorker article discussing how Portugal has fared since decriminalizing, the author spoke with a doctor who discussed the vans that patrol cities with chemical alternatives to the hard drugs that addicts are trying to wean themselves off of. The doctor reflected on the spectacle of people lining up at the van, still slaves of addiction, but defended the act: "Perhaps it is a national failing, but I prefer moderate hope and some likelihood of success to the dream of perfection and the promise of failure."



- https://m.mic.com/articles/110344/14-years-after-portugal-decriminalized-all-drugs-here-s-what-s-happening#.mvplIwQyr


--------------------

From all I may be, or have been before,
To mingle with the Universe, and feel
What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.


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Invisibledemiu5
humans, lol
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Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
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Re: Can someone write an argument in favor of open borders. [Re: Hedonist] * 1
    #23868994 - 11/26/16 01:08 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

America once faced a great fork in the road: isolationism  v.  globalism
isolation(ism), while a more difficult path on a governing entity, spurs internal growth, advancement, infrastructure improvements, and allows for a focus on a smaller percentage of political/economic issues, and a potential focus on public health.

isolationism does not allow for empire. 

globalism (empiricism) allows for rapid growth of wealth (for those who have the wealth or the means to attain the wealth).  it preys upon the weakest, the "others", and creates division/castes outside that of an already established, internal social hierarchy.

this can be related to a feeding regimen for a plant and the fauna associated with it (bacteria).  if isolationism is the standard feeding regimen of medium-to-long-term nutrient availability, globalism is the same regimen with molasses (or another simple sugar) added.  The simple sugars in molasses allow for mass, rapid booms/busts of bacteria in soil/roots.  Bacteria are able to reproduce more readily in the presence of easily digestable food.  As more bacteria are present, they consume more and reproduce more; compounding.  The bacteria eventually consume ALL readily available resources, and then die-off en masse, resulting in signficantly less bacteria in the soil/roots than before the molasses was applied.  With less bacteria, the plants are less able to take up nutrients, slowing the overall process of growth/thriving.


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David


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Offlinefinalexplosion
Stranger
Registered: 11/04/16
Posts: 370
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
Re: Can someone write an argument in favor of open borders. [Re: demiu5]
    #23870740 - 11/26/16 10:47 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Its factual that certain ideologies do not belong. The same can be said of certain cultures and or religious beliefs with barbaric actions towards people. If there is collusion amongst terrorists and those that support evil, it should be blocked at all costs. There is evidence documented of people celebrating 9/11. Its pretty fucked up that anybody could do that and celebrate such a tragic event in history. Open boarders contradicts strengthening a country. We all immigrated from somewhere. There is a means of entering a country legally. Every country should sift through the crap holes and pull out the best of the lot not every spineless wonder.


--------------------
The light of wisdom is driving away the darkness. Look at the ground. Now you can see your own shadow. If you are scared by the shadow that follows you, just remember, wherever shadows fall, light is always nearby.


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