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OfflineHedonist
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Registered: 08/06/14
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Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Can someone write an argument in favor of open borders.
    #23844671 - 11/18/16 09:30 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

So I can be a bit a bit alt right, but you don't need to be right wing to see the lunacy of open borders.

If you are pro open borders, I am curious why.
How will it benefit you, and the world around you?

Why is open borders better, than a world where everyone has some territory to sustain them.


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OfflineThe Mycologist
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Registered: 05/06/16
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Re: Can someone write an argument in favor of open borders. [Re: Hedonist]
    #23844684 - 11/18/16 09:34 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

In the future I can see the whole world as one unit. The places with a certain competitive advantage to make something would specialize and the world would be an efficient machine

not gonna happen anytime soon though


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"That you are here—that life exists, and identity;
That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.”
― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass
:acidfire::tmckenna:


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OfflineTmethylM
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Re: Can someone write an argument in favor of open borders. [Re: The Mycologist] * 5
    #23844716 - 11/18/16 09:43 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Borders are imaginary lines.
Earth is one planet.
Nobody actually owns anything, all will remain here when you or your organization is gone.
Borders are a remaining part of human greed and infantile thinking.


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¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Can someone write an argument in favor of open borders. [Re: Tmethyl]
    #23844733 - 11/18/16 09:50 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Many of the celebrity proponents of open borders live in secure communities. George Clooney was really big on immigration until the African and Syrian refugees started camping out near his Italian villa. Rather than welcoming them in, he sold the villa and moved far from any refugees.

Those here who favor such would not be pleased to wake up in the middle of the night with a stranger in their house, and house walls are just another artificial border.


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InvisibleDisoRDeR
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Registered: 08/29/02
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Re: Can someone write an argument in favor of open borders. [Re: Hedonist]
    #23844899 - 11/18/16 10:50 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Hedonist said:
Why is open borders better, than a world where everyone has some territory to sustain them.




That seems like a false dichotomy. Are you asking for a justification of opening national borders or eliminating personal property, or something else?


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Can someone write an argument in favor of open borders. [Re: Hedonist]
    #23845830 - 11/18/16 04:35 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Hedonist said:
So I can be a bit a bit alt right, but you don't need to be right wing to see the lunacy of open borders.

If you are pro open borders, I am curious why.
How will it benefit you, and the world around you?

Why is open borders better, than a world where everyone has some territory to sustain them.




The bodies of animals have skins for a reason,
plant cells have walls,
animal cells have membranes

houses have walls
food bowls don't have holes in the bottom

the earth has tectonic plates
water has surface tension

and are those arguing in favor of no boundaries going around nude?

do men want other men to respect their daughter's boundaries?

the idea of "no borders" - it's all just more conceptual baloney


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Can someone write an argument in favor of open borders. [Re: laughingdog] * 3
    #23846001 - 11/18/16 05:23 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

actually i think borders are the concepts in this case moreso than 'no borders'

animals have give no thoughts of borders when they migrate

i am for the position of free migration worldwide, as that makes sense to me. many people opposed to such a notion are themselves descendants of immigrants in their countries - even the Natives migrated there at one point!

the argument against no borders stems from the issue of governance. i think if we can 'evolve' enough as a species, we will go beyond needing such systems in place. who knows when that will be.

and being for 'no borders' doesn't mean being against personal property or walls on houses, just that people should be able to travel and live anywhere on mother earth without paperwork, visas, etc. it may be a bit of a pipe dream at this point, but i cannot deny how much sense it makes to me :smile:


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Can someone write an argument in favor of open borders. [Re: deff] * 2
    #23846109 - 11/18/16 05:55 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

deff said:
actually i think borders are the concepts in this case moreso than 'no borders'

animals have give no thoughts of borders when they migrate

i am for the position of free migration worldwide, as that makes sense to me. many people opposed to such a notion are themselves descendants of immigrants in their countries - even the Natives migrated there at one point!

the argument against no borders stems from the issue of governance. i think if we can 'evolve' enough as a species, .... just that people should be able to travel and live anywhere on mother earth without paperwork, visas, etc. it may be a bit of a pipe dream at this point,...




nice ideas but so idealistic as to be pure fantasy...

mostly in life we are protected by chance
it just happens you don't live next door to a hell's angles gang, mafia head quarters, a crack house etc and many other highly undesirable situations - the world is full of such nefarious stuff - so partly you are protected by chance and partly by the stuff you claim to dislike: passports, police, zoning laws, water quality laws, pollution laws etc etc

"animals have give no thoughts of borders when they migrate"

exactly! ... when not migrating they kill each other over territory, and mark territory with piss

and even a roving wolf pack has a very clear hierarchy, which is stricktly enforced

no boundries is a nice temporary situation within a context that does have boundries,
such as the famous Woodstock festival - but modern civilization could not function long without lots of structure, imo


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Can someone write an argument in favor of open borders. [Re: laughingdog] * 3
    #23846167 - 11/18/16 06:11 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

well i should clarify - it is possible to have borders and still allow free migration, such as is the case with state borders in the US. individual states can maintain differences in laws and such, and yet people are free to move to any state they choose. on a world-wide level this would likely require some form of international government, which raises some red flags because the people pushing for power of such a one world government are usually selfish in their motives i think. that said, there is nothing inherently negative about a worldwide form of governance that still allows individual countries to sub-govern, much like the EU does (not saying the EU is ideal, but as a model of what is possible).

i should clarify though that i see such a situation as an ideal, as a vision for a golden age of humanity. i understand that there are reasons why it won't manifest at this time, but i do feel it will emerge eventually for humanity, not sure when. i think if there are advanced extraterrestrial civilizations, more advanced than humanity currently, they would not have such geographical restrictions as nation states that we do. :smile:


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Can someone write an argument in favor of open borders. [Re: OrgoneConclusion] * 1
    #23846225 - 11/18/16 06:28 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Many of the celebrity proponents of open borders live in secure communities. George Clooney was really big on immigration until the African and Syrian refugees started camping out near his Italian villa. Rather than welcoming them in, he sold the villa and moved far from any refugees.

Those here who favor such would not be pleased to wake up in the middle of the night with a stranger in their house, and house walls are just another artificial border.




Maybe your house walls are artificial, mine were made by men, for men.



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Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Can someone write an argument in favor of open borders. [Re: deff] * 2
    #23846547 - 11/18/16 08:24 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

(migrating) animals have give no thoughts of borders when they migrate





Put your hand in a hornets nest or a viper's den. Animals do indeed have borders.

Large predators mark their territory with urine or musk.


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InvisiblePenelope_Tree
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Re: Can someone write an argument in favor of open borders. [Re: OrgoneConclusion] * 2
    #23846672 - 11/18/16 09:00 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I think this argument is a waste of time because OP never defined what he meant by "open borders."


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full blown human


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InvisibleHobozen
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Re: Can someone write an argument in favor of open borders. [Re: Tmethyl] * 2
    #23846743 - 11/18/16 09:13 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Tmethyl said:
Borders are imaginary lines.
Earth is one planet.
Nobody actually owns anything, all will remain here when you or your organization is gone.
Borders are a remaining part of human greed and infantile thinking.




Sweden opened their borders, look what happened

Quote:

Forty years after the Swedish parliament unanimously decided to change the formerly homogenous Sweden into a multicultural country, violent crime has increased by 300% and rapes by 1,472%. Sweden is now number two on the list of rape countries, surpassed only by Lesotho in Southern Africa. 




Infantile thinking is ignoring these facts and thinking this is ok.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Can someone write an argument in favor of open borders. [Re: Hobozen] * 4
    #23846767 - 11/18/16 09:18 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Better to be raped than be labelled a bigot. :crazy:

Can we bring back the Vikings?


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: Can someone write an argument in favor of open borders. [Re: Tmethyl] * 1
    #23847068 - 11/18/16 10:40 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Tmethyl said:
Borders are imaginary lines.
Earth is one planet.
Nobody actually owns anything, all will remain here when you or your organization is gone.
Borders are a remaining part of human greed and infantile thinking.



Walloped it.


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Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Can someone write an argument in favor of open borders. [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 1
    #23847109 - 11/18/16 10:50 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Do you lock your car or house doors?


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OfflineTmethylM
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Re: Can someone write an argument in favor of open borders. [Re: OrgoneConclusion] * 2
    #23847386 - 11/19/16 01:51 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Nothing wrong with personal property(or personal space). Doesn't mean you need to own, or claim you own more than your own personal needs require.
Shouldn't really be a debate.. bee's have a hive that they claim their own, people can have a place to claim their own, however a fictitious organization(government) should not claim to own portions of the planet.


--------------------
¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Can someone write an argument in favor of open borders. [Re: Tmethyl] * 1
    #23847405 - 11/19/16 02:14 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Very arbitrary "rules" you just made up there.


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OfflineTmethylM
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Re: Can someone write an argument in favor of open borders. [Re: OrgoneConclusion] * 1
    #23847419 - 11/19/16 02:31 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Wouldn't call it a rule, just the way living creatures live. Bee's use a hive, birds use a nest, humans tend to also build structures to live in.
Only humans draw imaginary lines(around area they don't personally reside) and claim they own the space contained within.


--------------------
¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Can someone write an argument in favor of open borders. [Re: Tmethyl] * 2
    #23847663 - 11/19/16 07:59 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

you know in toronto we sometimes don't lock the doors.

all ages of every race and creed circulate on the street and sidewalk right in front of our place (there is a store downstairs and we live above it)

we once had a strange guy enter late at night, while we were in bed watching netflix, and yell out if "is this a night club?!"

I try to lock doors.

nothing bad has happened when I forget which is half the time.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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