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TheMadHatter420
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Do jars need to "consoilidate" before spawning to bulk?
#23841077 - 11/17/16 09:43 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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1. Simple, do they have to consolidate or just be 100% colonized?
2. Is it preferable to consolidate or at least wait a couple days past colonization?
3. If I am ever forced to wait a few days to spawn, about how long can I wait without slowing the mycelium down when spawned.
Approx. window of opportunity?
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Moabfighter
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Re: Do jars need to "consoilidate" before spawning to bulk? [Re: TheMadHatter420]
#23841080 - 11/17/16 09:44 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think with the results you're getting off cakes, you should just keep doing that.
But yes let consolidate.
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TheMadHatter420
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Re: Do jars need to "consoilidate" before spawning to bulk? [Re: Moabfighter]
#23841087 - 11/17/16 09:48 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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4 cakes gave me a little over 3/4 of an ounce dry. Not happy. I am going to still do them to refine my cake tek, but I want to do some mini mono's
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LogicaL Chaos
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Re: Do jars need to "consoilidate" before spawning to bulk? [Re: TheMadHatter420]
#23841103 - 11/17/16 09:55 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Typically, u consoldate *after* spawning and casing.
Consolidating is for cakes, not pre spawning.
Im curious what a pro grower says thou...
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spacechildo
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Re: Do jars need to "consoilidate" before spawning to bulk? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
#23841130 - 11/17/16 10:07 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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dont consolidate grain spawn, use it when its at its most aggressive.
for the future, rather trust the search engine, tc box ticked than advice given by randoms on the boards. this has been asked a bunch of times, if you wanna know the full reasoning behind consolidation ask TCs in the search engine.
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Moabfighter
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Re: Do jars need to "consoilidate" before spawning to bulk? [Re: spacechildo]
#23841138 - 11/17/16 10:10 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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He's talking about spawning cakes to bulk.....
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spacechildo
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Re: Do jars need to "consoilidate" before spawning to bulk? [Re: Moabfighter]
#23841148 - 11/17/16 10:13 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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I dont see where he does that but same goes for cakes, so it doesnt matter. spawn when the myc is at its most aggressive.
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crackbaby
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Re: Do jars need to "consoilidate" before spawning to bulk? [Re: Moabfighter]
#23841181 - 11/17/16 10:25 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Moabfighter said: He's talking about spawning cakes to bulk.....
whenever i've broken up pf cakes before letting them sit for 3-4 days after the jars are totally white, there's always been a good portion of uncolonized brf in the center of the cake. Consolidation for cakes is preferable.
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Moabfighter
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Re: Do jars need to "consoilidate" before spawning to bulk? [Re: crackbaby]
#23841190 - 11/17/16 10:26 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
crackbaby said:
Quote:
Moabfighter said: He's talking about spawning cakes to bulk.....
whenever i've broken up pf cakes before letting them sit for 3-4 days after the jars are totally white, there's always been a good portion of uncolonized brf in the center of the cake. Consolidation for cakes is preferable.
Which is what I said in my first reply to this thread.
I have cakes that have been consolidating for two months now....
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TheMadHatter420
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Re: Do jars need to "consoilidate" before spawning to bulk? [Re: Moabfighter]
#23841220 - 11/17/16 10:39 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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I have 16 cakes that are beautiful. I will probably use them for 2 mini monos. I also have 12 quart jars that I G2G on Tuesday. Great looking recovery today, so those will probably go into monos soon two. This is all new area to me.
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LogicaL Chaos
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Re: Do jars need to "consoilidate" before spawning to bulk? [Re: Moabfighter]
#23841277 - 11/17/16 11:00 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Moabfighter said: He's talking about spawning cakes to bulk.....
the OP was not clear about what jars were used 
But yes, consolidate PF jars before spawning cause colonizing the center of the PF cake takes awhile.
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cronicr



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Re: Do jars need to "consoilidate" before spawning to bulk? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
#23841320 - 11/17/16 11:13 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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No you don't consolidate spawn weather it's cakes or grains you spawn as soon as it's ready consolidation is for fruiting substrates...if a cakes white on the outside it is inside.
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Mad Season
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Re: Do jars need to "consoilidate" before spawning to bulk? [Re: cronicr]
#23841337 - 11/17/16 11:16 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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the inside might look not so white, the bitch is definitely in there. When you break grains up its the same concept.
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bodhisatta 
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Re: Do jars need to "consoilidate" before spawning to bulk? [Re: Mad Season]
#23841344 - 11/17/16 11:18 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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spawn = never consolidate
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spacechildo
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Re: Do jars need to "consoilidate" before spawning to bulk? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
#23841414 - 11/17/16 11:39 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
LogicaL Chaos said:
Quote:
Moabfighter said: He's talking about spawning cakes to bulk.....
the OP was not clear about what jars were used 
But yes, consolidate PF jars before spawning cause colonizing the center of the PF cake takes awhile.
no it doesnt, myc grows in 3d, same speed every way so if you use 4 inoc points as the tek tells you to the center is colonized when the outside is white. consolidation doesnt mean "waiting for inside to turn white", consolidation means the myc is consuming nutrition from the grains/brf without fruiting being initiated.
I just wanna re-iterate, use the search engine if you're in doubt over these basic things.
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bodhisatta 
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Re: Do jars need to "consoilidate" before spawning to bulk? [Re: spacechildo] 1
#23841419 - 11/17/16 11:39 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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or cut a cake in half and prove people wrong
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LogicaL Chaos
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Re: Do jars need to "consoilidate" before spawning to bulk? [Re: bodhisatta]
#23841553 - 11/17/16 12:14 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: or cut a cake in half and prove people wrong
i would like to see a photo of this.
I was under the assumption that when the outside of a cake is fully white, the inside is not quite all white but close, and consoldating completes the colonization while strenghtening the connections of the mycelium.
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Pastywhyte
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Re: Do jars need to "consoilidate" before spawning to bulk? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
#23841575 - 11/17/16 12:21 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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The inside is white but as soon as you cut or break it open the mycelium contracts making it appear less colonized.
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LogicaL Chaos
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Re: Do jars need to "consoilidate" before spawning to bulk? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23841582 - 11/17/16 12:24 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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ah, so u cant know causes cutting open the cake makes it "less" colonized so to speak?
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cronicr



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Re: Do jars need to "consoilidate" before spawning to bulk? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
#23841603 - 11/17/16 12:32 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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We consolidate to let the myc digest a bit as cakes are very nutritious
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LogicaL Chaos
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Re: Do jars need to "consoilidate" before spawning to bulk? [Re: cronicr]
#23841616 - 11/17/16 12:37 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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hmmm....ive read that BRF is borderline too nutritous.
Is that the reason for consoldation? Too nutritous substrate?
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cronicr



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Re: Do jars need to "consoilidate" before spawning to bulk? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
#23841626 - 11/17/16 12:39 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yep it sure is
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Pastywhyte
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Re: Do jars need to "consoilidate" before spawning to bulk? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
#23841633 - 11/17/16 12:41 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
LogicaL Chaos said: ah, so u cant know causes cutting open the cake makes it "less" colonized so to speak?
Would be pretty unlikely for the outside to be colonized and the inside not. The circumference is far greater than the radius. Unless you packed it or made it harder to colonize the inside should usually finish first.
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cronicr



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Re: Do jars need to "consoilidate" before spawning to bulk? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23841642 - 11/17/16 12:43 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Or used the wrong jars..
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spacechildo
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Re: Do jars need to "consoilidate" before spawning to bulk? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23841728 - 11/17/16 01:13 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
Quote:
LogicaL Chaos said: ah, so u cant know causes cutting open the cake makes it "less" colonized so to speak?
Would be pretty unlikely for the outside to be colonized and the inside not. The circumference is far greater than the radius. Unless you packed it or made it harder to colonize the inside should usually finish first.
Pi (3,14) is how many times bigger the circumfere is compared to the diameter. the diameter is twice as much as the radius, hence the circumfere is 6,28 (2 pi) as much as the radius. we use 4 inoc points which means the distance between each inoc point is 6,28 divided by 4 = ~1,5 times the distance between the inoc points and the radius. we know myc grows equally fast in each direction, up,down,inwards,outwards etc. so unless you somehow managage to compact the center of the cake more than the outter sphere of the cake you simply cannot have a colonized surface without a colonized center.
you'd need 7 or more (or more than 6,28 ) inoc points before the outside would be colonized and the inside not.
this may sound advanced but its just because I'm terrible at explaining these things, its really very simple.
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crackbaby
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Re: Do jars need to "consoilidate" before spawning to bulk? [Re: cronicr]
#23843485 - 11/17/16 09:10 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: No you don't consolidate spawn weather it's cakes or grains you spawn as soon as it's ready consolidation is for fruiting substrates...if a cakes white on the outside it is inside.
I've broken up a shit ton of pf cakes over the years (using them for cased trays for quite a while, and then more recently for p2g), and have often found that when the cake is totally white on the outside, the inside will be raw brf with no trace whatsoever of mycellium. Sometimes it's an uncolonized area up to 1/4 to 1/2 inch in diameter, running from the top to just behind the white bottom. And this has occurred whether the cakes were packed tight or fluffy, using ball 1/2 pints or kerr wide mouth 1/2 pints.
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spacechildo
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Re: Do jars need to "consoilidate" before spawning to bulk? [Re: Mad Season]
#23844184 - 11/18/16 05:36 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mad Season said: the inside might look not so white, the bitch is definitely in there. When you break grains up its the same concept.
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PortabellaFella 1
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Re: Do jars need to "consoilidate" before spawning to bulk? [Re: spacechildo] 2
#23844207 - 11/18/16 05:54 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
spacechildo said:
Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
Quote:
LogicaL Chaos said: ah, so u cant know causes cutting open the cake makes it "less" colonized so to speak?
Would be pretty unlikely for the outside to be colonized and the inside not. The circumference is far greater than the radius. Unless you packed it or made it harder to colonize the inside should usually finish first.
Pi (3,14) is how many times bigger the circumfere is compared to the diameter. the diameter is twice as much as the radius, hence the circumfere is 6,28 (2 pi) as much as the radius. we use 4 inoc points which means the distance between each inoc point is 6,28 divided by 4 = ~1,5 times the distance between the inoc points and the radius. we know myc grows equally fast in each direction, up,down,inwards,outwards etc. so unless you somehow managage to compact the center of the cake more than the outter sphere of the cake you simply cannot have a colonized surface without a colonized center.
you'd need 7 or more (or more than 6,28 ) inoc points before the outside would be colonized and the inside not.
this may sound advanced but its just because I'm terrible at explaining these things, its really very simple.
There's a cake/Pi joke in there somewhere......it's just too early and I haven't had enough coffee yet to figure it out.
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oakley
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Re: Do jars need to "consoilidate" before spawning to bulk? [Re: TheMadHatter420]
#23844417 - 11/18/16 07:45 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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OP would you please explain your brf cake tek? those results are looking impressive.
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LogicaL Chaos
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Re: Do jars need to "consoilidate" before spawning to bulk? [Re: PortabellaFella 1]
#23844468 - 11/18/16 08:08 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Let me give it a try: "In order to make a proper cake, you must first learn Pi".
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spacechildo
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Re: Do jars need to "consoilidate" before spawning to bulk? [Re: TheMadHatter420]
#23844549 - 11/18/16 08:45 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
TheMadHatter420 said: 4 cakes gave me a little over 3/4 of an ounce dry. Not happy. I am going to still do them to refine my cake tek, but I want to do some mini mono's
I seriously doubt you'll see much more return pr cake by spawning them to bulk compared to your results fruiting them as cakes. if you wanna step up your game and yields grain spawn is where its at.
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TheMadHatter420
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Re: Do jars need to "consoilidate" before spawning to bulk? [Re: oakley]
#23844614 - 11/18/16 09:09 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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It is NOT BRF! FUCK BRF! LOL
What I use is, WHOLE BROWN RICE!
This is kind of half way between cakes and grains. I just used 3 to knock up 12 quarts via G2G and they look BEAUTIFUL after 3 days.
Boil some water, dump on brown rice, when cooled to room temp repeat with boiling water. MAKE SURE THEY SOAK 24 HOURS. This is almost always enough to properly plump them up. Once in a while, guessing due to house temp, they will not be fully expanded. In that case throw the pot on burner, bring to boil, constantly stirring. WHEN DOING THIS PART, IF NEEDED, YOU MUST BABYSIT THEM. IT WILL ONLY TAKE A FEW MINEUTS TO FINISH THEM OFF THIS WAY.
***AS SOON AS YOU HAVE THEM DONE, YOU HAVE TO RINSE IN COLD WATER TO STOP FROM COOKING!!!***very important.
What you are looking for is fully expanded rice that has just the slightest remaining crunch in the middle. You do NOT want to over cook and have a mush. YOU WILL HAVE TO RINSE THE SHIT OUT OF IT TO REMOVE AS MUCH STARCH AS POSSIBLE. WHEN MIXXING THE VERMICULITE, I MIX DRY!! This allows the vermiculite to soak up the extra remaining water on the rice as well as helping fight sticky starch. If to dry I add just a bit of water to get to about 90% field capacity. THIS, IN MY OPINION, MAKES AN ENVIRONMENT THAT DISCOURAGES THE FAST SPREAD OF BACTERIA, SLOWS THEM DOWN. It also controls condensation, and soaks up water from spore syringe. Since we do a dunk and roll at birth we do not have to worry about being 100% at field capacity on the vermiculite.
I then mix 2 parts rice to 1 part vermiculite. I PC for 2.5 hours. I am a better more than less guy when it comes to PC. I even had some jars sit 2 weeks, unused, and they didn't even smell of bacteria so I must have done a good job pc'n.
Inoculate at 4 points, 12,3,6,9 (on clock). I then shake at about 30%. Being able to shake with this mix, allows for faster colonization. I got full colonization and consolidation on my pints in 3 week, maybe a few days less. It is a light and airy mix that promotes fast mycelium growth with NO compaction in bottom of pints like you would get with BRF. Best part is with the mix you can go both ways, fruit as cakes, or shake the shit out of it and G2G/ spawn to bulk.
I am now trying the addition of gypsum to see if there is any change. With gypsum and vermiculite all ready in there I will only have to add coir for my mono tubs I will be doing.
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TheMadHatter420
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Re: Do jars need to "consoilidate" before spawning to bulk? [Re: TheMadHatter420] 1
#23844618 - 11/18/16 09:11 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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I harvested these 4 a few days ago. 20.2g dry . These were small, MASS CLUSTERED, fruits. The ones I harvested yesterday had much "meatier" fruits. I did have 5 cube varieties in there though.
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blackout


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Re: Do jars need to "consoilidate" before spawning to bulk? [Re: TheMadHatter420]
#23848359 - 11/19/16 12:00 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
TheMadHatter420 said: 3. If I am ever forced to wait a few days to spawn, about how long can I wait without slowing the mycelium down when spawned.
A user called Mycofile would purposely wait several months before spawning the grain, he reckoned it resulted in significantly more potent fruits.
I have some quote of his later on in this thread https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15181139/fpart/all
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LogicaL Chaos
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Re: Do jars need to "consoilidate" before spawning to bulk? [Re: TheMadHatter420]
#23849706 - 11/19/16 07:35 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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nice grow!
well done.
But u shouldnt punch your door out of frustration. Thats a good harvest for cakes.
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