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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
I believe sentience evolved.
    #23836619 - 11/15/16 07:20 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

How is this irrational?


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Offlineviktor
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: sudly] * 1
    #23836640 - 11/15/16 07:27 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

:iveseenenough:


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: viktor]
    #23836676 - 11/15/16 07:39 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

It's beautiful to think that once a salmon fish reaches the end of its life cycle it will return as nutrients.

Animals are brave and travelled souls.



--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



Edited by sudly (11/18/16 09:49 PM)


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Offlineviktor
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: sudly]
    #23836699 - 11/15/16 07:50 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

its*

Might have to learn some primary school grammar if your triune brain thesis is going to shock the world as much as you think it will.


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: viktor] * 2
    #23836731 - 11/15/16 07:58 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

First there was the verb.

Then the noun was deemed necessary.

Much later the adverb and adjective were added.

This is how the sentence evolved.





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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: sudly] * 1
    #23836798 - 11/15/16 08:22 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
How is this irrational?




How is it rational?  Can you provide any actual evidence?

(The answer is no you can't).


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Offlinedeff
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: sudly] * 2
    #23836908 - 11/15/16 08:54 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

to you I'm sure it is very rational to believe that, as for others it might be rational to believe the opposite. Rationality is only a tool that is as useful as the data and experiences it draws from. Otherwise it is a blind force imo. Some people have had experiences that lead them to believe reality is different than the way you view it. At the end of the day, both are beliefs... and each person will be drawn to a belief that fits their experiences and hopefully works well for them for the time being :smile:


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: viktor]
    #23836997 - 11/15/16 09:35 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
its*

Might have to learn some primary school grammar if your triune brain thesis is going to shock the world as much as you think it will.




Funny I didn't mention Triune in this post.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23837002 - 11/15/16 09:36 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Quote:

sudly said:
How is this irrational?




How is it rational?  Can you provide any actual evidence?

(The answer is no you can't).




Evidence no but argument yes.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: deff] * 1
    #23837006 - 11/15/16 09:38 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

deff said:
to you I'm sure it is very rational to believe that, as for others it might be rational to believe the opposite. Rationality is only a tool that is as useful as the data and experiences it draws from. Otherwise it is a blind force imo. Some people have had experiences that lead them to believe reality is different than the way you view it. At the end of the day, both are beliefs... and each person will be drawn to a belief that fits their experiences and hopefully works well for them for the time being :smile:




I respect that we all have the right to believe in what we want to believe in and my choice was to believe in evolution.

I don't need to prove sentience evolved I just need to argue it did.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



Edited by sudly (11/15/16 09:43 PM)


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23837233 - 11/15/16 10:48 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I think it's important to desensitise yourself to new ideas.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: sudly]
    #23837374 - 11/15/16 11:46 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Because I'am a monkey-fish.


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Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23837414 - 11/16/16 12:07 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Thank you for your ignorance.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Offlinemantis83
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: sudly]
    #23837435 - 11/16/16 12:20 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

hi there,

i also believe in evolution. But at the same time I also believe that de-evolution is possible, and this has been one of my major concerns for a very long time. I feel like I have been "de-evolving" as my brain has been degenerating from past substance abuse and my heart is closed and dead because of my relationship to others. I have been de-evolving and don't know the cure for this


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: mantis83]
    #23837487 - 11/16/16 12:54 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I would guess 'de-evolution' is caused by an over stimulated fight or flight response in a modern society that isn't physically dangerous in relation to our evolutionary hominid ancestors who lived in prehistoric conditions.

Instead of intermediate sensation you're probably looking for immediate sensation and you aren't living up to your expectations because of it. 


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



Edited by sudly (11/16/16 07:15 AM)


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: mantis83]
    #23837610 - 11/16/16 03:07 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mantis83 said:
hi there,

i also believe in evolution. But at the same time I also believe that de-evolution is possible, and this has been one of my major concerns for a very long time. I feel like I have been "de-evolving" as my brain has been degenerating from past substance abuse and my heart is closed and dead because of my relationship to others. I have been de-evolving and don't know the cure for this




My best advice is that you stop your immediate expectations because they are linked to your fight or flight response being stimulated and it's causing you anxiety.

Instead you should focus on developing and maintaining intermediate expectations.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: sudly]
    #23837744 - 11/16/16 05:31 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

It's also weird to think that genetically modified glow in the dark jellyfish sheep have existed since before 2013 but that's the science of evolution at work.



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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: sudly]
    #23837851 - 11/16/16 07:01 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
Thank you for your ignorance.



let me be a mirror


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: mantis83]
    #23837862 - 11/16/16 07:08 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

If you smoke tobacco there is a better solution.

I don't know why this surprised me but apparently tobacco companies add ammonium salts to their tobacco to increase the bioavailability of nicotine.

Quote:

'Addition of substances which increase the bioavailability of nicotine.'
"Increase the bioavailability of nicotine by adding alkalising ingredients which increase the pH of tobacco (such as ammonium compounds). At higher pH (pH >8.0) more nicotine is in its free uncharged form, which would therefore more easily pass the (lung) membrane i.e. higher absorption leading to higher blood and brain nicotine levels. For details see section 3.8.3.2 on ammonia and other compounds affecting smoke pH."
http://ec.europa.eu/health/scientific_committees/opinions_layman/tobacco/en/l-3/5.htm




--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



Edited by sudly (11/16/16 07:14 AM)


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23837868 - 11/16/16 07:11 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

You can be a mirror if you want to but that doesn't say anything against a belief that sentience evolved.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: sudly]
    #23837956 - 11/16/16 07:45 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
Quote:

sudly said:
Thank you for your ignorance.



let me be a mirror



Quote:

sudly said:
You can be a mirror if you want to but that doesn't say anything against a belief that sentience evolved.



so you are saying that people who do not share your belief (which is vague to say the least and which relies on idiosyncratic redefinition of critical concepts) are ignorant; and rather than stay on topic you are entitled to resort to personalisms; but if you fear a personalism you return to the topic with is the sanctity of your belief system.

this is not a forum of beliefs.
and personalism is not encouraged.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23837973 - 11/16/16 07:53 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Ignorant just means not knowing.



--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23837982 - 11/16/16 07:56 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

A fear of personalisms?

I believe in the ending of American Beauty.

We live in a heaven on Earth in a hell that is the Universe.

The effort you put into life should be equal to looking for diamonds in a pool of shit.

Don't take life for granted because one day you will die.
Appreciate what you have and respect values.

It's okay to want more to appreciate.
But try not to take what you have for granted.



--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: sudly]
    #23843101 - 11/17/16 07:06 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

"I believe sentience evolved"

so...

of what value is this belief to you?

you want confirmation that a belief is rational?

funny, beliefs are generally not about rationality as you know.

hence Euclid's proofs rest on axioms and postulates.

given such and such, such and such follows

but the postulates are simply the rules of the game

one can play or not play the game

no belief necessary

----
but if you want to test whether a hypothesis is worth investigating, you need to provide an argument as to why the investigation is pertinent and your notion probable. You have not done so, and the terms are undefined. Is "sentience"  to be tested by a turing test for example? ....etc...


Edited by laughingdog (11/17/16 07:12 PM)


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: laughingdog]
    #23843281 - 11/17/16 08:03 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I don't want to believe in magic so I choose to believe in the results of the scientific method.

Something that gets me interested in this belief is that if it's true that sentience evolved then what we are experiencing now as human beings is an evolved consciousness otherwise known as having a conscience.

If it's true that sentience evolved then all I need to do is argue the biological reason for the adaptations and evolution of a sense of morality which I believe occurs as the result of the temporary anxiolytic effects of entheogens like psilocybin which can act to inhibit the fight or flight response.

I am still writing my thesis to make it easier to understand for others because you only really understand a concept once you can easily explain it to others and I am still developing the terminology to describe the mechanisms at place within the human nervous system that allow us to experience both sensations and perceptions.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: sudly]
    #23843317 - 11/17/16 08:14 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
If it's true that sentience evolved then all I need to do is argue the biological reason for the adaptations...





I think you're going to find that in the epiphenomenalist framework, there is no reason for consciousness to exist.  In other words, it's going to prove impossible for you to find evolutionary benefits for awareness if there had previously been none in the animal (or plant) kingdom.  It's a circle that institutional science is still very much stuck in.

Good luck.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23843407 - 11/17/16 08:45 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Quote:

sudly said:
If it's true that sentience evolved then all I need to do is argue the biological reason for the adaptations...





I think you're going to find that ..., there is no reason for consciousness to exist. ....
Good luck.




As I said, I seems to me, that  if consciousness isn't defined it's all moot. If we define it as some form of an 'entity' modeling itself, then we can find a reason for it. Chickens for example have a peking order and know what their place is in the group, this is true for many animals, and we could say it qualifies as a rudimentary form of self awareness and has some use. In particular it prevents much unneccessary conflict, which conserves energy.

I imagine as self driving cars are further developed, the car's computer will model itself in relation to other cars, and the environment. Again useful.

In many animals place in hierarchy determines sexual/reproductive access, so there are consequences in regards to evolution. It would seem to be up to Sudly to further define what he means by the term before we, or anyone, can evaluate it's usefulness, evolutionarily speaking.

I suspect a definition needs to involve memory, an accessible data base of past actions, ability to form predictions, and form goals, etc.
There are already many theories such as 'theory of mind' ...
and much human behavior is of course actually quite irrational and driven by unconscious motives, so it doesn't appear that precision & lack of obscurity  in this regard will be an easy task, which is why I suspect it continues to be avoided.

Redefining existing words and inventing new words would seem to often be a way of fooling oneself that some thing profound is being hinted at. Some philosophers spend lifetimes doing this.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23843412 - 11/17/16 08:47 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

This is where a better interpretation of consciousness is necessary because the word 'consciousness' does not entail a good description of what makes a human unique.

Quote:

Consciousness: the state of being aware of and responsive to one's surroundings.




Consciousness is being aware of external surroundings according to a dictionary.

Because this is the case a Venus fly trap can be considered as having consciousness because it is able to differentiate between a water droplet and a fly by counting the amount stimulation it senses with trigger hairs.


If a plant like this experiences consciousness then it is not a unique trait to humans. What is unique to humans and human trained service animals is that they display an internal decision making process known as a sense of morality which is also known as having a conscience.

I believe it is the development of a conscience that makes higher cognition and sentience a reality.

The evolutionary benefit of having a sense of morality comes in connecting populations and societies in deciding what is good and bad for the overall health of a civilisation, e.g. making laws that remove murderers who are a threat to the survival of a population.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: sudly]
    #23843430 - 11/17/16 08:52 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

by equating awareness with morality
it would seem you are saying immoral people such as
for example various dictators, serial killers, and generally psociopaths
are not aware.

This seems peculiar.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: laughingdog]
    #23843462 - 11/17/16 09:03 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I'm equating morality with being able to differentiate awareness of external surroundings and internal perceptions.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: sudly]
    #23843503 - 11/17/16 09:15 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
I'm equating morality with being able to differentiate awareness of external surroundings and internal perceptions.




that would seem to make some sense in that, that is what we fail to do in dreams, and it is assumed we are more aware when awake.

but the serial killer, or serial killer and rapist does not torture himself, he is distinguishing between self and other, internal sensations and the surroundings, as evidenced when  he avoids being caught. He is both aware and making some rational discriminations and immoral.

So this definition of morality does not seem adequate


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: laughingdog]
    #23843539 - 11/17/16 09:27 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

what some other researchers in the field have studied

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=theory+of+mind+psychology


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: laughingdog]
    #23843560 - 11/17/16 09:33 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Initially we may fail to be aware of a dream but in waking it's rather easy to remember the difference between dreams and real experiences, in my experience at least.

Quote:

Morality: principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behaviour.




Quote:

Conscience: a person's moral sense of right and wrong, viewed as acting as a guide to one's behaviour.




Morality and Conscience are one and the same.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: sudly]
    #23843679 - 11/17/16 10:22 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

how come it does not feel meaningful or profound?


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OfflineThe Mycologist
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23843696 - 11/17/16 10:30 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Maybe it wasn't evolved but knocked off from the mushroom.


--------------------
"That you are here—that life exists, and identity;
That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.”
― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass
:acidfire::tmckenna:


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23843705 - 11/17/16 10:34 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

It feels purposeful, in the form of DNA translation.

I think things are meaningful when you value them and I value DNA translation because it is the foundation of evolution and hence my life.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: sudly] * 1
    #23844142 - 11/18/16 04:45 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

DNA translation is far away from consciousness and memory and
conscience is not integral to consciousness - definitely not synonymous!


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23845110 - 11/18/16 12:10 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

"Conscience is not integral to consciousness."
That's kinda my whole point.

DNA translation is the purpose of life because it's how DNA replicates.

Consciousness is being aware of external surroundings.
Conscience is being aware of internal perspectives.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: sudly] * 1
    #23845207 - 11/18/16 12:57 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

wrong wrong wrong I give up - this kind of thinking is more steampunk than post industrial information age worthy.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23845483 - 11/18/16 02:52 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
wrong wrong wrong I give up - this kind of thinking is more steampunk than post industrial information age worthy.




Devotion to fuzzy and sketchy theories is apparently not  entirely infrequent. There are those who think they have the secret to prime number patterns, the secret to free energy, a refutation of evolution, perpetual motion, and so on  ...

Some people make quilts or build ships in bottles in their spare time ... they seem less needy as regards need for approval and attention ... some such activities may have a social component:
some quilters get together on weekends, and chess players in parks as well. Other such activities are more solitary and maybe some sort of compensation ...


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: laughingdog]
    #23845638 - 11/18/16 03:36 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:


DNA translation is the purpose of life because it's how DNA replicates.



Lol, so wrong :tongue2:

Lemme hold this up for you.
Quote:

"Conscience is not integral to consciousness."




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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: sudly]
    #23845780 - 11/18/16 04:19 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sudly said:

Lemme hold this up for you.
"Conscience  consciousness."




Lemme hold this up for you.
the 3rd C is for compensation in it's usual accepted meaning

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compensation_%28psychology%29

"In psychology, compensation is a strategy whereby one covers up, consciously or unconsciously, weaknesses, frustrations, desires, or feelings of inadequacy or incompetence in one life area through the gratification or (drive towards) excellence in another area. Compensation can cover up either real or imagined deficiencies and personal or physical inferiority. Positive compensations may help one to overcome one's difficulties. On the other hand, negative compensations do not, which results in a reinforced feeling of inferiority. There are two kinds of negative compensation:

Overcompensation,...
Undercompensation..."
etc. etc. ....

suppose we all tell you your ideas are wonderful?
what then?

it just so happens that, that is not the case.
yet you continue to attempt to try to prove to strangers on the internet your profundity
in regards to one peculiar hobby horse
it sure seems like a case of compensation.

but I won't continue to try to prove it

supposedly Einstein is the one who said
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

just perhaps it is applicable in this case, if your hobby horse isn't providing you with all the happiness, you feel it should ... who knows?

many of us on this board have or have had psychological problems, so losing face wouldn't seem to be an issue most of us care about.

but it would seem it's your happiness that matters most ... who knows?


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: laughingdog]
    #23845873 - 11/18/16 04:49 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Why does a lecturer talk to his students?
To hope they understand it or learn something.

I sometimes enjoy the feedback these forums provide because I'm still developing and writing a thesis on the topic of an evolved sentience. 

I'm not looking for approval I'm looking to develop ideas.


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OfflineBrotherManBill
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: viktor]
    #23845939 - 11/18/16 05:09 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
its*

Might have to learn some primary school grammar if your triune brain thesis is going to shock the world as much as you think it will.



It's, not its, was the proper way to say that. Maybe you should learn some grammar, he was shortening it is, hence the apostrophe.

Anyways, I agree op, sentience definitely evolved. But from what and how? I believe evolution is a somewhat conscious change. I'm not a big into the idea that evolution occurs from random mutations that just somehow work out perfectly for the plant/animal. That's just far too unfathomable to actually take serious.

It seems to me that all living organisms have sentience, even protozoa are said to have animal-like behavior. Which to me is a good indication that evolution has been somewhat of a conscious phenomenon, things adapt to new environments, and situations then the mutations and changes occur as generations go on until they reach a culmination.

That's just my view anyways.


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: BrotherManBill]
    #23846036 - 11/18/16 05:31 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Anyways, I agree op, sentience definitely evolved. But from what and how?




I consider everything alive and capable of DNA replication as experiencing consciousness. This means that sentience must have arose from consciousness to conscience through the development of distinguishable perceptions, aka. a sense of morality.

As for the development of a sense of morality I think it develops when an organisms develops the ability to override their fight or flight response.

Human beings are sentient and we have a proportionally large and recently evolved neocortex that enables us to override our anxieties, fears and the fight or flight response with rationality and logic.

Quote:

Neocortex: a part of the cerebral cortex concerned with sight and hearing in mammals, regarded as the most recently evolved part of the cortex.




(Reptilian complex is basal ganglia)

30,000 years ago our hominid ancestors had access to opium, marijuana and magic mushrooms as has been depicted in cave paintings around the world in places like Southern France.
If during these times societies had free access to entheogens and were widely using them then it is rational to assume they were using magic mushrooms which have anxiolytic properties. Anxiolytic properties result in a temporary inhibition of the fight or flight response. With regular use of magic mushrooms this means individuals within a population could accumulate psychedelic experiences to learn how to use focus to override their fight or flight response and develop a sense of rationality and morality.


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Edited by sudly (11/18/16 05:37 PM)


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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: BrotherManBill]
    #23846076 - 11/18/16 05:44 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

BrotherManBill said:
Quote:

viktor said:
its*

Might have to learn some primary school grammar if your triune brain thesis is going to shock the world as much as you think it will.



It's, not its, was the proper way to say that. Maybe you should learn some grammar, he was shortening it is, hence the apostrophe.





Quote:

sudly said:once a salmon fish reaches the end of it's life cycle it will return as nutrients




Quote:

sudly said:the end of it's life cycle




Is this forum literally getting dumber? I mean some of the posters that have turned up recently seem like they flunked out of primary school.

Maybe what PS&P needs is some kind of beginner's subforum, where new posters go and if they fail to demonstrate basic reasoning skills or grammar knowledge (like sudly and BrotherManBill) they are not invited to the grown ups' one.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: viktor]
    #23846291 - 11/18/16 06:57 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
Quote:

BrotherManBill said:
Quote:

viktor said:
its*

Might have to learn some primary school grammar......Is this forum literally getting dumber? I mean some of the posters that have turned up recently seem like they flunked out of primary school.
....




Wow -- viktor you and LE sure are strict grammar police! especially if you all dislike what is being said.


Edited by laughingdog (11/18/16 07:09 PM)


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: viktor]
    #23846876 - 11/18/16 09:51 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I changed the word to its*

Thank you for your one and only contribution.


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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: sudly]
    #23847160 - 11/18/16 11:09 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

This thread was dead upon birth :shrug: at least I gave it some fire.


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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: sudly] * 1
    #23847192 - 11/18/16 11:24 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I would like to thank the useful feedback I've received from BrotherManBill, DividedQuantum, mantis83, deff, redgreenvines, laughingdog and OrgoneConclusion with your moral support. :thumbup:


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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: sudly]
    #23847685 - 11/19/16 08:10 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

it's been a slice


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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: sudly]
    #23850045 - 11/19/16 10:20 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

The process of evolution reflects a sentient and purposeful process beyond mankind's present understanding.

So, you're effectively stating : I believe something that is sentient beyond and above this present domain of sentience created it under a process beyond my grasp and that process is playing out over time.

Stop fighting these realizations. It hurts and limits no one other than yourself.

:beerbag:


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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: phio]
    #23850073 - 11/19/16 10:32 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

DNA translation is the only purpose of life.

I believe conscience is not integral to consciousness, that consciousness is being aware of external surroundings and having a conscience means being aware of your individual sense of morality.

I am not limited by my beliefs.


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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: sudly] * 1
    #23850083 - 11/19/16 10:41 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

There is more to life than pounding female genitalia.

There is also... um... bowling?


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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #23850095 - 11/19/16 10:45 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I find happiness in values, passions and hobbies too.


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Invisiblephio


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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: sudly]
    #23850299 - 11/20/16 01:08 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

In essence, ponderings..
Quote:

sudly said:
DNA translation is the only purpose of life.

I believe conscience is not integral to consciousness, that consciousness is being aware of external surroundings and having a conscience means being aware of your individual sense of morality.

I am not limited by my beliefs.




If you disagreed with my rewording of your belief, I'm assuming you would have stated it.
Instead you cut over to comfortable and grounded biology (DNA translation) and base philosophy(conscience vs consciousness).

You're seemingly avoiding a certain depth on this topic


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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: phio]
    #23850322 - 11/20/16 01:33 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:


The process of evolution reflects a sentient and purposeful process beyond mankind's present understanding.

So, you're effectively stating : I believe something that is sentient beyond and above this present domain of sentience created it under a process beyond my grasp and that process is playing out over time.




The process of evolution is not sentient. Evolution is guided by things like natural selection and survival of the fittest which are natural phenomena.

I don't think evolution is sentient but I do believe evolution resulted in human beings and service animals which display sentience in the form of a sense of morality and internal perception.

You have done nothing but continue to be vagrant in your interpretation of my words.


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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: sudly] * 1
    #23850379 - 11/20/16 02:49 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
Quote:


The process of evolution reflects a sentient and purposeful process beyond mankind's present understanding.

So, you're effectively stating : I believe something that is sentient beyond and above this present domain of sentience created it under a process beyond my grasp and that process is playing out over time.




The process of evolution is not sentient. Evolution is guided by things like natural selection and survival of the fittest which are natural phenomena.

I don't think evolution is sentient but I do believe evolution resulted in human beings and service animals which display sentience in the form of a sense of morality and internal perception.

You have done nothing but continue to be vagrant in your interpretation of my words.




You don't think? and how much research and consideration have you given to it? Because I can point out some of the most significant contributors to scientist who thought much deeper than that which is why they made these fundamental discoveries and found order where there previously was none known. They first believed it to be there and went in search of it.

Charles Darwin himself (the father of evolution) reflects this truth :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Charles_Darwin

With the aim of becoming a clergyman he went to the University of Cambridge for the required BA degree, which included studies of Anglican theology. He took great interest in natural history and became filled with zeal for science as defined by John Herschel, based on the natural theology of William Paley which presented the argument from divine design in nature to explain adaptation as God acting through laws of nature.



Charles Robert Darwin established that all species of life have descended over time from common ancestors.

See the theological belief driving and steering one's quest for answers and confirmation? See how he went in search of a unifying and common cause/trace behind the diversity of species?



So, you're saying a processes that has lasted the test of time which pervades hundreds of thousands of years of natural history and governs all aspects of biological life across all species just spontaneously came about due to :
> natural selection
> survival of the fittest
which are natural phenomena.

What's doing the selection? What's determining the fittest solution? Why select? why fit? Why survive? There's nothing natural and non-sentient about that as it recurses right back into the properties of sentience. You can't escape it but you sure can weave a confusing box of convoluted nonsense to avoid what stares you in the face.

Order, structure, selection, fitting, persistence .. but hey, the root of all of it is just random man... Yeah that sentience is like 'natural' man ... from nature... its formed via a very intricate clearly purposeful and deep process but the process itself.. yeah, that's just random man... it's like nature just being random man.
what created nature is just random man and why laws even govern the universe is just random man... Imagine how science would have progressed with this kind of thinking.

Nothing is just 'random man'. The basis of science centers on the belief that nothing is 'random' which is why they search for the causes of things and discover it. You don't go from causes to causes to causes and hit nothing .. a blank.. there aren't causes upon causes upon causes that center on nothing .. zilch.

Such a belief goes against all of science and is foolishness You couldn't name a single thing in the universe that is :
cause -> cause -> cause -> complexity -> complexity -> zilch

Science isn't based on 'zilch'. You don't go in search of zilch. If a scientist goes in search of a deeper cause for evolution they're necessarily subscribing to a non-existing belief. Darwin himself shaped his pursuit from Anglican theology and a Teleological_argument formed by :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Paley
Maybe you should give it a read:
http://archive.org/stream/naturaltheologyo1802pale#page/n5/mode/2up

So, you can squirm all you want and claim vagrancy. The facts and truth is :
The very process you seem to fawn over (Evolution) is rooted in Anglican Theology and Darwin's claim to evolution is prior art and anything but athiest. God is written all over as its what Darwin hoped to find and label as the 'unifying process and -root- of species' ..

Published 7 years before Darwin was even born.

Reworded, proofed, and limited in scope for those who can't handle deep leaps in understanding :


What I find to be vagrant are outlandish misattributions of the spirit of Scientific pursuits.

"there is nothing in the desert and no man needs nothing"


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: phio]
    #23850413 - 11/20/16 03:34 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Darwin's personal motivation does not change the fact of evolution.

I'm saying the diversity of species on Earth is due to natural selection, survival of the fittest and biological evolution.

The animals that survive to reproduce are 'selected' by nature because they are the organisms that live to be able to reproduce and raise offspring to propagate their genes.

Evolution is the accumulation of minute physiological changes over thousands of generations.

Quote:

Sentience is the capacity to feel, perceive, or experience subjectively.




The process of evolution is not a sentient being, it is a natural and biological process.

If an adaptation or mutation helps an organism to survive in its environment and reproduce then that animal is considered fit in evolutionary terms.

Genetic mutations are random.

You clearly have little to no understanding of what science is or what it entails.
Science is based on the scientific method.
Quote:

Scientific method: a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses




Religions have been a part of human history for centuries and we've accumulated over 2500 different gods and deities. Tradition does not equate to inherent truth.

When Darwin released his theory on the origin of species he was met with most criticism from his church who believed God was the only thing that influenced the diversity of species.

Paley had a theological stance on species diversity whereas Darwin seeked a further explanation in what he would soon call evolution. 
Quote:

Charles Darwin had a non-conformist Unitarian background, but attended a Church of England school. With the aim of becoming a clergyman he went to the University of Cambridge for the required BA degree, which included studies of Anglican theology.
He took great interest in natural history and became filled with zeal for science as defined by John Herschel, based on the natural theology of William Paley which presented the argument from divine design in nature to explain adaptation as God acting through laws of nature. On the voyage of the Beagle he remained orthodox and looked for "centres of creation" to explain distribution, but towards the end of the voyage began to doubt that species were fixed. By this time he was critical of the Bible as history, and wondered why all religions should not be equally valid. Following his return in October 1836, he developed his novel ideas of geology while speculating about transmutation of species and thinking about religion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Charles_Darwin




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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: phio]
    #23850585 - 11/20/16 06:32 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

phio said:
The process of evolution reflects a sentient and purposeful process beyond mankind's present understanding.
....



the term "reflects" here should be suggests.

believing this suggestion is not clear thinking, it inflates complexity that is not fundamental to understanding, and will definitely impart false understanding to people who cling to ancient dreams:

medieval cosmology did not help the understanding of astronomy or physics.

I have to agree with sudly that there is no "purpose" underlying the theory of evolution, other than better understanding the Origin of Species:  it is more of an observation of the cumulative effects of survival from random mutation, than any theory of a process.

Maybe the villain here is our mental habit to consider that any process must have a purpose or a function in some grander scheme or system, but this is not the case at all.

During the long entropy process of the universe, evolution is merely a side effect.


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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: sudly]
    #23850593 - 11/20/16 06:38 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I believe sudly evolved.

From what and how recently are what I don't know.


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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: viktor]
    #23850763 - 11/20/16 08:36 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

maybe he survived a mutation and bred himself and then took over where the previous sudly was.


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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23850800 - 11/20/16 08:51 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

what many seem to forget
is that although we all know cause and effect
are discernible on a human time scale:
and hence a mechanic can trouble shoot a problem to repair a car,
or a detective solve a crime from evidence,
Yet as the idea of, time having a beginning, is a contradiction in terms, there can be no ultimate cause and no discernible ultimate purpose.
Apparently this obvious fact seems to make some folks uncomfortable.

As the age of the earth is roughly known,
and the beginning of life here roughly known,
we can infer some cause and effect, as regards it's development..

But to jump to the conclusion
that there is some purpose or intelligence behind life,
ignores the larger context
that shows the entire universe
has no
ultimate cause and no discernible ultimate purpose.


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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: laughingdog]
    #23850902 - 11/20/16 09:32 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Sudly

do you distinguish between various awarenesses?

Spiritual teachers say most of us are asleep,
do you fit this into your theory?

How about brain wave states: Alpha, beta, delta, theta, etc.
how about brain wave coherence?
brain wave studies of meditators?

synchronizing breath and heartbeat?

the four categories of 'open focus' ?

dreaming,
lucid dreaming,
hypnagogic state
and hypnosis?


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: laughingdog]
    #23851775 - 11/20/16 03:08 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I know what synchronicity is, I'm pretty aware of my emotions and I know what my instincts and intuition are.

I also recognise when I've dreamt after waking and sometimes during a dream.

Quote:

I believe sudly evolved.

From what and how recently are what I don't know.




I'm with you on this one but I think the answer is hominid evolution.


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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: viktor]
    #23859625 - 11/23/16 06:18 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
its*

Might have to learn some primary school grammar if your triune brain thesis is going to shock the world as much as you think it will.




no need to be snooty

quote

"Why Is There Confusion?
Apostrophes are used to show possession. For example, the possessive form of dog is dog's (as in the dog's teeth).

Therefore, somewhat understandably, many think that the possessive form of it should be it's. It seems to fit the pattern. To make matters worse, there is some evidence that the possessive form of it used to be it's. The word it's is used erroneously (by today's conventions) throughout the American Constitution."


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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: laughingdog] * 1
    #23859688 - 11/23/16 07:03 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

It doesn't fit the pattern at all. The pattern is:

mine
yours
his
hers
its
ours
theirs


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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: viktor]
    #23860659 - 11/23/16 01:25 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
It doesn't fit the pattern at all. The pattern is:

mine
yours
his
hers
its
ours
theirs




what pattern?

'mine' has no 's' , and all the others do
and
'his' and is not a word without the 's'
(but must be turned into 'he' to become a word,
whereas 'hers' is a word without 's' )
but 'ours' and 'its' are words without the 's'
then there is the question of mine and my

Perhaps many of us need a lesson here?
It certainly seems confusing to me.

We all learn to speak intuitively,
long before grammar lessons around,
grade 6, or age 11 in the USA.
So if the folks we're modeling, as young children,
don't have great language skills we may end up,
lacking in that department too.
Society being what it is,
this ends up being,
a distinction between the various economic classes.

And many smart people, like Einstein, didn't do very well in school.
And there are many different types of both intelligence and talents.

It is said Italian children learn language quicker than English speaking children
as Italian is the most consistent language and English the least.


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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: laughingdog]
    #23860743 - 11/23/16 01:47 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

we could have a whole conversation about what "intuitively" means,
and you would end up defending Freudian age terms.

In my model of consciousness, intuition is the same as memory. 100% associative. nothing more, nothing less.

the term intuition should go away because it is usually used to mean something vague, powerful and esoteric - something other than logical thought, while logic in the brain is the same thing as intuition (associative recollection).

The only difference between intuitive thinking and so called logical thinking, is that logical thinking usually has words or math in it, while intuitive thinking may not use words.


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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23860834 - 11/23/16 02:20 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
we could have a whole conversation about what "intuitively" means,
and you would end up defending Freudian age terms.

In my model of consciousness, intuition is the same as memory. 100% associative. nothing more, nothing less.

the term intuition should go away because it is usually used to mean something vague, powerful and esoteric - something other than logical thought, while logic in the brain is the same thing as intuition (associative recollection).

The only difference between intuitive thinking and so called logical thinking, is that logical thinking usually has words or math in it, while intuitive thinking may not use words.




I think you are over thinking this:smile:

I am no fan of psychoanalysis.

I used the word's conventional meaning.

What word would you use to describe the way children learn language as opposed to the way adults learn a new language?

The point of the post was that while most of us speak fluent english, yet many of us have problems with the technicalities of our grammar, and to guess at why this may be so.

As viktor seems to understand grammar better than I do, I was expressing my confusion in regards to a point he made. I was not trying to prove a theory of consciousness or elucidate the nature of 'intuition'.  I certainly have no desire to debate Chomsky or Pinker or anyone on language acquisition. My wish was to learn from viktor.


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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: laughingdog]
    #23861318 - 11/23/16 05:05 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

viktor at sea



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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23861443 - 11/23/16 05:43 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I would have thought intuition is a fancy was of saying instinct.

Quote:

Instinct: an innate, typically fixed pattern of behaviour in animals in response to certain stimuli.





Quote:

Intuition: the ability to understand something instinctively, without the need for conscious reasoning.




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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: sudly]
    #23862622 - 11/24/16 05:48 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

do not use the dictionary to support scientific theory.
common usage of words is, well, too common.

it can't be used to penetrate the veil.


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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23862623 - 11/24/16 05:53 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
do not use the dictionary to support scientific theory.







--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



Edited by sudly (11/24/16 06:13 AM)


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OfflineL_iggins
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23862655 - 11/24/16 06:18 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Every creature is sentient, even plants are self aware and react to outside stimuli so how hasn't it evolved? The only argument is "god" put us here in his all knowing all powerful image. I don't just doubt that either, I strongly doubt that. Your only gods are the sun and the moon so show some respect to nature and recognize we are all connected through a force much more powerful then this "god".

Also wouldn't instinct and intuition correlate with morality? Or am I just being dumb I don't know


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: L_iggins]
    #23862697 - 11/24/16 06:44 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Nah man, I think every creature experiences consciousness but only humans and some trained animals are sentient because they've developed a strong sense of morality and a decent conscience.

I also think instinct is related to morality because in order to develop a sense of morality one first has to learn partisan labeling of good and bad by ignoring their instinctive reactions and taking the time to conceptualise. aka. learning to override their fight or flight response.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: sudly]
    #23862795 - 11/24/16 07:33 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

roll it back a bit suddles:

All sensitive creatures (sentience applies here) have at least some form of consciousness or continuous but limited mental body (i.e. as in stream of consciousness),
just as they all have some form of continuous but limited physical body.

The efficacy [of that stream of consciousness - by the attributes of attention, knowledge, and inference(, which are all dependent upon a stream of consciousness)] is definitely selected for in the overall process of evolution.

Secondarily, social elements of evolution come into play with various kinds of language and physical communication that are mitigated by the mental body/consciousness.

these words work, but putting in other words from a thesaurus will not have the same meaning.


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OfflineJaegar
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23862870 - 11/24/16 08:02 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

The intricacies of our evolutionary behaviour are complex in structure and fundamentally simpledesign. Hopefully you parrots stop preening and quote relevant experts in these fields. Cultural intricacies are meh


Edited by Jaegar (11/24/16 08:05 AM)


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23863870 - 11/24/16 02:55 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Sentience doesn't apply to all creatures because it is a sense of subjective perception such as morality and a conscience.

Honing senses to override the fight or flight response could over time lead to the development of a sense of morality by learning to ignore instinctive impulses which would provide the time to conceptualise a partisan labeling of good and bad based upon a memory comparison of sensational experiences which can also be called a perception.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



Edited by sudly (11/24/16 03:32 PM)


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InvisibleCrazy_Horse
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: sudly]
    #23863950 - 11/24/16 03:42 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
Nah man, I think every creature experiences consciousness but only humans and some trained animals are sentient because they've developed a strong sense of morality and a decent conscience.






I trained my dog to be sentient with one of those clicker things.


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: Crazy_Horse]
    #23863976 - 11/24/16 03:56 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah.

I think humans can train some animals to develop internal perceptions which classify them as sentient.

Service animals may have a more developed sentience than the average dog but with some training they certainly can become intelligent companions.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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InvisibleCrazy_Horse
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: sudly]
    #23863992 - 11/24/16 04:01 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I want a helper monkey.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: sudly]
    #23864143 - 11/24/16 05:18 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
Yeah.

I think humans can train some animals to develop internal perceptions which classify them as sentient.

Service animals may have a more developed sentience than the average dog but with some training they certainly can become intelligent companions.



dogs already are intelligent companions
I think English is not your mother tongue, sentient, sapient,  and sensitivity are different issues.
any creature subject to experiences is sentient (for me that includes all vertebrates and arthropods at least)
service animals are trained to be attentive and obedient for specific purposes, but this does not make them more sentient, while it does make them more sapient, and disciplined in the particular scope for which they were trained.


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23864164 - 11/24/16 05:30 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Not all dogs.

I'm talking about sentience, morality and conscience.

I haven't mentioned sensitivity and I believe non sapient organisms have the capability to develop a sense of morality and a conscience too.

You're not accounting for the differentiation between awareness of external objects and awareness of internal perceptions.

What makes a service animal more sentient than others is the practice of intelligent disobedience which uses training techniques such as model/rival techniques that are designed to teach an animal to make the 'good' decision in any given situation on their own. 

Quote:

Guide dogs are taught intelligent disobedience in a variety of ways. The most common is to use some level of aversive training methods. For teaching intelligent disobedience in a traffic situation, first the dog is taught how to safely cross a road with their trainer. This is done by stopping at the down curb, waiting for a “Forward” command to go forward then walking straight and directly across the road at a good pace to the opposite up curb. Most schools teach their guide dogs to stop at the up curb, indicating to their handler that they have reached the opposite side of the road successfully.

Once a dog can do this and shows no fear of the traffic, the intelligent disobedience portion is trained.




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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Offlineviktor
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: sudly]
    #23864228 - 11/24/16 06:06 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

What you write is so confusing it's like anti-science.


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: viktor]
    #23864282 - 11/24/16 06:25 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

You could say the same thing about quantum physics, cosmology or cellular biology. :shrug:


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineJaegar
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: sudly]
    #23865677 - 11/25/16 10:37 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Without a fundamental uniting primate call of unity divisive distinctions I'll prevail.

The problem is with over qualified turd specialists without consequence.

The shprt set route unite with force

And hence paranoid govts




Edited by Jaegar (11/25/16 10:41 AM)


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Offlinesecondorder
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: sudly]
    #23871324 - 11/27/16 08:28 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Sudly please define sentience.


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: secondorder]
    #23871866 - 11/27/16 12:10 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Sentience is the capacity to feel, perceive, or experience subjectively. Eighteenth-century philosophers used the concept to distinguish the ability to think (reason) from the ability to feel (sentience).




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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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