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Offlineviktor
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: sudly]
    #23850593 - 11/20/16 06:38 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I believe sudly evolved.

From what and how recently are what I don't know.


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: viktor]
    #23850763 - 11/20/16 08:36 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

maybe he survived a mutation and bred himself and then took over where the previous sudly was.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23850800 - 11/20/16 08:51 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

what many seem to forget
is that although we all know cause and effect
are discernible on a human time scale:
and hence a mechanic can trouble shoot a problem to repair a car,
or a detective solve a crime from evidence,
Yet as the idea of, time having a beginning, is a contradiction in terms, there can be no ultimate cause and no discernible ultimate purpose.
Apparently this obvious fact seems to make some folks uncomfortable.

As the age of the earth is roughly known,
and the beginning of life here roughly known,
we can infer some cause and effect, as regards it's development..

But to jump to the conclusion
that there is some purpose or intelligence behind life,
ignores the larger context
that shows the entire universe
has no
ultimate cause and no discernible ultimate purpose.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: laughingdog]
    #23850902 - 11/20/16 09:32 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Sudly

do you distinguish between various awarenesses?

Spiritual teachers say most of us are asleep,
do you fit this into your theory?

How about brain wave states: Alpha, beta, delta, theta, etc.
how about brain wave coherence?
brain wave studies of meditators?

synchronizing breath and heartbeat?

the four categories of 'open focus' ?

dreaming,
lucid dreaming,
hypnagogic state
and hypnosis?


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: laughingdog]
    #23851775 - 11/20/16 03:08 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I know what synchronicity is, I'm pretty aware of my emotions and I know what my instincts and intuition are.

I also recognise when I've dreamt after waking and sometimes during a dream.

Quote:

I believe sudly evolved.

From what and how recently are what I don't know.




I'm with you on this one but I think the answer is hominid evolution.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: viktor]
    #23859625 - 11/23/16 06:18 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
its*

Might have to learn some primary school grammar if your triune brain thesis is going to shock the world as much as you think it will.




no need to be snooty

quote

"Why Is There Confusion?
Apostrophes are used to show possession. For example, the possessive form of dog is dog's (as in the dog's teeth).

Therefore, somewhat understandably, many think that the possessive form of it should be it's. It seems to fit the pattern. To make matters worse, there is some evidence that the possessive form of it used to be it's. The word it's is used erroneously (by today's conventions) throughout the American Constitution."


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Offlineviktor
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: laughingdog] * 1
    #23859688 - 11/23/16 07:03 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

It doesn't fit the pattern at all. The pattern is:

mine
yours
his
hers
its
ours
theirs


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: viktor]
    #23860659 - 11/23/16 01:25 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
It doesn't fit the pattern at all. The pattern is:

mine
yours
his
hers
its
ours
theirs




what pattern?

'mine' has no 's' , and all the others do
and
'his' and is not a word without the 's'
(but must be turned into 'he' to become a word,
whereas 'hers' is a word without 's' )
but 'ours' and 'its' are words without the 's'
then there is the question of mine and my

Perhaps many of us need a lesson here?
It certainly seems confusing to me.

We all learn to speak intuitively,
long before grammar lessons around,
grade 6, or age 11 in the USA.
So if the folks we're modeling, as young children,
don't have great language skills we may end up,
lacking in that department too.
Society being what it is,
this ends up being,
a distinction between the various economic classes.

And many smart people, like Einstein, didn't do very well in school.
And there are many different types of both intelligence and talents.

It is said Italian children learn language quicker than English speaking children
as Italian is the most consistent language and English the least.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: laughingdog]
    #23860743 - 11/23/16 01:47 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

we could have a whole conversation about what "intuitively" means,
and you would end up defending Freudian age terms.

In my model of consciousness, intuition is the same as memory. 100% associative. nothing more, nothing less.

the term intuition should go away because it is usually used to mean something vague, powerful and esoteric - something other than logical thought, while logic in the brain is the same thing as intuition (associative recollection).

The only difference between intuitive thinking and so called logical thinking, is that logical thinking usually has words or math in it, while intuitive thinking may not use words.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23860834 - 11/23/16 02:20 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
we could have a whole conversation about what "intuitively" means,
and you would end up defending Freudian age terms.

In my model of consciousness, intuition is the same as memory. 100% associative. nothing more, nothing less.

the term intuition should go away because it is usually used to mean something vague, powerful and esoteric - something other than logical thought, while logic in the brain is the same thing as intuition (associative recollection).

The only difference between intuitive thinking and so called logical thinking, is that logical thinking usually has words or math in it, while intuitive thinking may not use words.




I think you are over thinking this:smile:

I am no fan of psychoanalysis.

I used the word's conventional meaning.

What word would you use to describe the way children learn language as opposed to the way adults learn a new language?

The point of the post was that while most of us speak fluent english, yet many of us have problems with the technicalities of our grammar, and to guess at why this may be so.

As viktor seems to understand grammar better than I do, I was expressing my confusion in regards to a point he made. I was not trying to prove a theory of consciousness or elucidate the nature of 'intuition'.  I certainly have no desire to debate Chomsky or Pinker or anyone on language acquisition. My wish was to learn from viktor.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: laughingdog]
    #23861318 - 11/23/16 05:05 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

viktor at sea



--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23861443 - 11/23/16 05:43 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I would have thought intuition is a fancy was of saying instinct.

Quote:

Instinct: an innate, typically fixed pattern of behaviour in animals in response to certain stimuli.





Quote:

Intuition: the ability to understand something instinctively, without the need for conscious reasoning.




--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: sudly]
    #23862622 - 11/24/16 05:48 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

do not use the dictionary to support scientific theory.
common usage of words is, well, too common.

it can't be used to penetrate the veil.


--------------------
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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


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Posts: 10,810
Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23862623 - 11/24/16 05:53 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
do not use the dictionary to support scientific theory.







--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



Edited by sudly (11/24/16 06:13 AM)


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OfflineL_iggins
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23862655 - 11/24/16 06:18 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Every creature is sentient, even plants are self aware and react to outside stimuli so how hasn't it evolved? The only argument is "god" put us here in his all knowing all powerful image. I don't just doubt that either, I strongly doubt that. Your only gods are the sun and the moon so show some respect to nature and recognize we are all connected through a force much more powerful then this "god".

Also wouldn't instinct and intuition correlate with morality? Or am I just being dumb I don't know


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L Dog:mushroom2::stoned::lahey:


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: L_iggins]
    #23862697 - 11/24/16 06:44 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Nah man, I think every creature experiences consciousness but only humans and some trained animals are sentient because they've developed a strong sense of morality and a decent conscience.

I also think instinct is related to morality because in order to develop a sense of morality one first has to learn partisan labeling of good and bad by ignoring their instinctive reactions and taking the time to conceptualise. aka. learning to override their fight or flight response.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: sudly]
    #23862795 - 11/24/16 07:33 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

roll it back a bit suddles:

All sensitive creatures (sentience applies here) have at least some form of consciousness or continuous but limited mental body (i.e. as in stream of consciousness),
just as they all have some form of continuous but limited physical body.

The efficacy [of that stream of consciousness - by the attributes of attention, knowledge, and inference(, which are all dependent upon a stream of consciousness)] is definitely selected for in the overall process of evolution.

Secondarily, social elements of evolution come into play with various kinds of language and physical communication that are mitigated by the mental body/consciousness.

these words work, but putting in other words from a thesaurus will not have the same meaning.


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OfflineJaegar
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23862870 - 11/24/16 08:02 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

The intricacies of our evolutionary behaviour are complex in structure and fundamentally simpledesign. Hopefully you parrots stop preening and quote relevant experts in these fields. Cultural intricacies are meh


Edited by Jaegar (11/24/16 08:05 AM)


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23863870 - 11/24/16 02:55 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Sentience doesn't apply to all creatures because it is a sense of subjective perception such as morality and a conscience.

Honing senses to override the fight or flight response could over time lead to the development of a sense of morality by learning to ignore instinctive impulses which would provide the time to conceptualise a partisan labeling of good and bad based upon a memory comparison of sensational experiences which can also be called a perception.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



Edited by sudly (11/24/16 03:32 PM)


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InvisibleCrazy_Horse
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Re: I believe sentience evolved. [Re: sudly]
    #23863950 - 11/24/16 03:42 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
Nah man, I think every creature experiences consciousness but only humans and some trained animals are sentient because they've developed a strong sense of morality and a decent conscience.






I trained my dog to be sentient with one of those clicker things.


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