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InvisibleSporeDaddy
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Psilocin Comparable to DMT
    #23832530 - 11/14/16 02:48 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

It is my belief that DMT which is found in just about everything in small amounts, is present in our brains chemistry, and is closely similar to serotonin, it is completely related to Psilocybin (Psilocin).


Serotonin is a neurotransmitter and is found in all bilateral animals, where it mediates gut movements and the animal's perceptions of resource availability. Mediates learning, aging, memory.

Serotonin occurs in several mushrooms of the genus Panaeolus.


Chemical Formulas

Serotonin: C10 H12 N2 O

DMT: C12 H16 N2

Psilocin: C12 H16 N2 O



Similarities of the chemical make up shows that, through evolution, it is possible that these three chemicals all are related to a common ancestor chemical.

Could serotonin be proof that evolution is real since the chemicals can be found throughout many vertebrates, invertebrates, even plants and fungi???

More over, could Serotonin's cousin chemicals DMT and Psilocin and many others be proof that Serotonin plays a role in physical perception of the world through our senses.

Evidence: Since when DMT or Psilocin is ingested your perception is altered to add things that aren't there and distort what information you are receiving. Clearly these chemicals, that are similar to serotonin, shows that it plays some role in consciousness.

Any thoughts or comments? :leaving:


--------------------
"Mushroom by nature is among the most powerful machines created by nature, people are the only thing to rival the mushroom."
- Terrence McKenna

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OfflineAuroraBorealis88
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Re: Psilocin Comparable to DMT [Re: SporeDaddy]
    #23832676 - 11/14/16 03:32 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SporeDaddy said:
More over, could Serotonin's cousin chemicals DMT and Psilocin and many others be proof that Serotonin plays a role in physical perception of the world through our senses.

Evidence: Since when DMT or Psilocin is ingested your perception is altered to add things that aren't there and distort what information you are receiving. Clearly these chemicals, that are similar to serotonin, shows that it plays some role in consciousness.





Well yes, it's very much so speculated that serotonin actually plays a key role in perception and without serotonin your brain loses grip on perception however there is no such thing as the "right perception" just the normal perception that our biology gave to us. So serotonin is like a baseline perception but it isn't the most enhanced or clear form. When you take things like LSD, Psilocin, DMT, etc. your brain thinks it's getting serotonin so it essentially replaces your baseline for perception with something else and we still don't understand entirely what that something is.


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OfflineIfitbeyourwill
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Re: Psilocin Comparable to DMT [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
    #23833855 - 11/14/16 09:02 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

DMT has it's own function in your brain..

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/323/5916/934


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OfflineAuroraBorealis88
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Re: Psilocin Comparable to DMT [Re: Ifitbeyourwill]
    #23833927 - 11/14/16 09:28 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I know...

But when you smoke it or take it in a tea your brain initially thinks it's serotonin, eventually down the line it will recognize that it's the natural DMT neurotransmitter but initially it thinks it's just serotonin. Basically when your brain doesn't expect it it will think it's serotonin, in other words only when you get it in an artificial way. I'm sure psilocin, DMT and mescaline all have their own biological functions and purposes whether they be endogenous or not.


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OfflineDmt_psilocybin
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Re: Psilocin Comparable to DMT [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
    #23833949 - 11/14/16 09:35 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

psilocin is 4-Hydroxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine so, yeah.
Even though n,ndmt they are different on many levels. I would however say it's comparable.


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MDMA is over rated


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OfflineAuroraBorealis88
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Re: Psilocin Comparable to DMT [Re: Dmt_psilocybin]
    #23833966 - 11/14/16 09:40 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Dmt_psilocybin said:
psilocin is 4-Hydroxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine so, yeah.
Even though n,ndmt they are different on many levels. I would however say it's comparable.




I would assume the method of administration is probably what makes most of the difference. The molecules are only 1 atom apart and it's not like psilocin is "close to" DMT or is "almost" the same because it actually has the very molecule in it. Psilocin has DMT in it.
Psilocin is basically oral DMT with an oxygen atom attached to it.


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OfflineDmt_psilocybin
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Re: Psilocin Comparable to DMT [Re: Dmt_psilocybin]
    #23833967 - 11/14/16 09:40 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Dmt_psilocybin said:
psilocin is 4-Hydroxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine so, yeah.
Even though n,ndmt they are different on many levels. I would however say it's comparable.
They both bind to the serotonin receptor, so they have to look pretty similiar in order to do this.
DMT is naturally synthesized in our pineal gland as well as some other areas. DMT could possibly have it's own seperate transmitter/receptor but not enough studies have been done. If this is the case, the dmt in psilocin would bind to tht DMT receptor giving similiar effects at high doses, the DMT transmitter would have to look pretty similiar to serotonin, so in theory they could both bind to serotonin and the theoretical DMT receptor/transmitter.

Just my 2 cents :shrug:.




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OfflineDmt_psilocybin
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Re: Psilocin Comparable to DMT [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
    #23833972 - 11/14/16 09:42 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

AuroraBorealis88 said:
Quote:

Dmt_psilocybin said:
psilocin is 4-Hydroxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine so, yeah.
Even though n,ndmt they are different on many levels. I would however say it's comparable.




I would assume the method of administration is probably what makes most of the difference. The molecules are only 1 atom apart and it's not like psilocin is "close to" DMT or is "almost" the same because it actually has the very molecule in it. Psilocin has DMT in it.
Psilocin is basically oral DMT with an oxygen atom attached to it.



true, but ayhuasca being the orally active form of DMT with an MAOI has different but similiar effets to high doses of psilocin. Taking an MAOI with psilocin does not produce the exact effects of ayhuasca


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MDMA is over rated


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OfflineAuroraBorealis88
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Re: Psilocin Comparable to DMT [Re: Dmt_psilocybin]
    #23834026 - 11/14/16 09:56 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Dmt_psilocybin said:
true, but ayhuasca being the orally active form of DMT with an MAOI has different but similiar effets to high doses of psilocin. Taking an MAOI with psilocin does not produce the exact effects of ayhuasca




Ya I was going to bring up ayahuasca because of how different it is from shrooms even though it's almost essentially the same thing molecularly speaking but I think it has to do with the additional alkaloids and other stuff in the ayahuasca not just the DMT. I think if you had just pure oral DMT it might actually be closer to psilocin than ayahuasca in its effects and I've talked with people who have tried all 3 who would agree.

Ayahuasca seems to have a bias from the way people describe it almost like the harmala alkaloids add something to the experience.


Edited by AuroraBorealis88 (11/14/16 09:59 PM)


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OfflineDmt_psilocybin
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Re: Psilocin Comparable to DMT [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
    #23834039 - 11/14/16 10:02 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

AuroraBorealis88 said:
Quote:

Dmt_psilocybin said:
true, but ayhuasca being the orally active form of DMT with an MAOI has different but similiar effets to high doses of psilocin. Taking an MAOI with psilocin does not produce the exact effects of ayhuasca




Ya I was going to bring up ayahuasca because of how different it is from shrooms even though it's almost essentially the same thing molecularly speaking but I think it has to do with the additional alkaloids and other stuff in the ayahuasca not just the DMT. I think if you had just pure oral DMT it might actually be closer to psilocin than ayahuasca in its effects and I've talked with people who have tried all 3 who would agree.

Ayahuasca seems to have a bias from the way people describe it almost like the harmala alkaloids add something to the experience.



I agree, i've heard harmaline itself can actually have some hallucinogenic qualities.
Theres also other alkaloids present in the mushrooms and in each different strain. If you had extracted pure psilocin and pure oral DMT i think they would be very much the same.


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OfflineEggtimer
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Re: Psilocin Comparable to DMT [Re: SporeDaddy]
    #23834361 - 11/15/16 02:04 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SporeDaddy said:
Could serotonin be proof that evolution is real since the chemicals can be found throughout many vertebrates, invertebrates, even plants and fungi???



:lol:

DMT and 4-ho-dmt give me very similar effects just one's more intense.


https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Ede_Frecska/publication/236339046_A_possibly_sigma-1_receptor_mediated_role_of_dimethyltryptamine_in_tissue_protection_regeneration_and_immunity/links/02e7e52c6816e599bd000000.pdf
Quote:

In essence, DMT is passing through three barriers with
the help of three different active transport mechanisms to
be compartmentalized and stored within the brain. In this
manner, high intracellular and vesicular concentrations of
DMT can be achieved within neurons. The outlined stages
of uptake reveal that considerable physiological effort is
exerted for the accumulation and storage of DMT and
suggest that it has vital importance, since only a few
compounds such as glucose and amino acids are known to
be treated with similar priority. These extensive specialized
processes would not have evolved to target a toxic compound
or merely because of the psychedelic effects of
DMT.




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OfflineDmt_psilocybin
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Re: Psilocin Comparable to DMT [Re: SporeDaddy]
    #23834747 - 11/15/16 08:40 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SporeDaddy said:


Similarities of the chemical make up shows that, through evolution, it is possible that these three chemicals all are related to a common ancestor chemical.

Could serotonin be proof that evolution is real since the chemicals can be found throughout many vertebrates, invertebrates, even plants and fungi???

More over, could Serotonin's cousin chemicals DMT and Psilocin and many others be proof that Serotonin plays a role in physical perception of the world through our senses.

Evidence: Since when DMT or Psilocin is ingested your perception is altered to add things that aren't there and distort what information you are receiving. Clearly these chemicals, that are similar to serotonin, shows that it plays some role in consciousness.

Any thoughts or comments? :leaving:




I see where your coming from but it has literally nothing to do with evolution. Evolution is real. Evolution in humans is just a theory. (even though it actually happened christians don't want to believe the vidence in front of them. Also every thing we know of has the same genetic code. Just because all species have a chemical that doesn't have anything to do with evolution.
Serotonin plays a role in consciousness while dreaming.
There is 0 proof serotonin secretes during the day to change perception. Melatonin is what makes you tired when it gets signaled to secrete when your eyes basically tell it too.


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InvisibleSporeDaddy
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Re: Psilocin Comparable to DMT [Re: Dmt_psilocybin]
    #23834820 - 11/15/16 09:16 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

0 proof is a bit inaccurate if you do your research. Plenty of labs around the world have studied serotonin in mammals to increase and decrease serotonin in the mammals brains. Apparently:

Recent research conducted at Rockefeller University shows, in both patients who suffer from depression as well as mice that model the disorder, levels of the p11 protein are decreased. This protein is related to serotonin transmission within the brain.

So if depression is caused by a decrease in serotonin and is all about how you 'feel' and how you see yourself in the world, then is that not perception? Could depression be a lack of 'correct' perception within the brain?

Wiki has a list of the binding profile for Serotonin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin which says it is one of the most important neurotransmitters responsible for everything from memory to learning to your digestion cycle (feeling hungry/thirsty/needing to use the bathroom)


--------------------
"Mushroom by nature is among the most powerful machines created by nature, people are the only thing to rival the mushroom."
- Terrence McKenna

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OfflineDmt_psilocybin
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Re: Psilocin Comparable to DMT [Re: SporeDaddy]
    #23835171 - 11/15/16 11:28 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SporeDaddy said:
0 proof is a bit inaccurate if you do your research. Plenty of labs around the world have studied serotonin in mammals to increase and decrease serotonin in the mammals brains. Apparently:

Recent research conducted at Rockefeller University shows, in both patients who suffer from depression as well as mice that model the disorder, levels of the p11 protein are decreased. This protein is related to serotonin transmission within the brain.

So if depression is caused by a decrease in serotonin and is all about how you 'feel' and how you see yourself in the world, then is that not perception? Could depression be a lack of 'correct' perception within the brain?

Wiki has a list of the binding profile for Serotonin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin which says it is one of the most important neurotransmitters responsible for everything from memory to learning to your digestion cycle (feeling hungry/thirsty/needing to use the bathroom)



Serotonin isn't responsible for memory. You have one form that lasts a half a second, than short term lasts a few minutes, than after that 7 plus or minus two "chunks" of information gets transferred by the hippocampus. Your really taking information from wikipedia?
Serotonin doesn't change perception perception is visual. Thats how you "perceive" the world. Serotonin does have something to do with depression and happiness. Not perception. Two completely different things.

You can't read studies and expect to understand all this if you don't have a prior understanding how these things work in your brain and don't understand what these words mean.


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