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InvisibleMycolorado
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Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) * 1
    #23830612 - 11/13/16 09:25 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I had some extra enriched paper left over from another project and about an eighth cup of cube rye spawn and decided to see what would happen.  It was inoculated on 10/12 and was shaken once about 2 weeks ago.  Growth has been slow but surprisingly, it is growing.  Initially, it appeared that the mycelium was surviving on the nutrients left in the spawn but it now seems to be running through the paper and looks to be knotting on top.

200 ml H2O
100 g paper
7.5ml Age Old Grow 12-6-6
This recipe made 2 quarts and was PC'd for 90min (I was making rye jars so figured WTH).



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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Mycolorado]
    #23830621 - 11/13/16 09:31 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

right on, been wanting to see more WL tek stuff.

Been starting to mess with it a bit myself.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #23830630 - 11/13/16 09:34 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

hey this is interesting, let us know what happens next. :thumbup:


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: oakley]
    #23830654 - 11/13/16 09:47 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

:popcorn:


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23832254 - 11/14/16 01:32 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

If you want some extra cubiness throw in some calcium carbonate.
Cut it down the middle and tell us what colour it is inside.

Money says very dark, near enough black.

Good luck, from Ferather  :thumbup:


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Ferather]
    #23832268 - 11/14/16 01:36 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

:cheers:


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Marty Mycfly]
    #23832286 - 11/14/16 01:40 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

:awedance:


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Ferather]
    #23832374 - 11/14/16 02:09 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I have updated and split my old WL tek into two new teks. The T-Tek and the TGF Tek.
Not sure how cubensis will handle tea but so far, an amazing additive.

Currently I am experimenting with starch free T-Gel (Like agar).
The T-Gel does not require pressure cooking.

Thanks again Mycolorado.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Ferather]
    #23832974 - 11/14/16 05:11 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

:woooaaahhh:


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Mycolorado]
    #23838577 - 11/16/16 11:50 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

what's WL?


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: spacechildo]
    #23838591 - 11/16/16 11:53 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Wood Lovers...Ferather developed it...think it's in his sig.  Just fucking around to see what's what...


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: spacechildo]
    #23838592 - 11/16/16 11:53 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Wood Lovers tek is what it stands for if I'm not mistaken. Essentially just mixing plant food into substrate.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #23838597 - 11/16/16 11:54 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

rbalzer said:
Wood Lovers tek is what it stands for if I'm not mistaken. Essentially just mixing plant food into substrate.



Enriched paper sub...


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Mycolorado]
    #23838612 - 11/16/16 12:00 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

hmm... that makes no sense at all to me. wood lovers means species that grow on wood. :confused2:
a WL tek IMO would be a tek on how to grow wood lovers... not adding plant food to paper?


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: spacechildo]
    #23838655 - 11/16/16 12:11 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Hahaha, now you have twisted your self. Paper is made from wood fiber, so he is adding plant food to paper.
He is also adding plant food to wood fiber, hence the wood lover. See how they are the same.

His cubensis has digested enriched paper, and has fruiting potential.
So now his cubensis is a wood lover too. Funny stuff.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Ferather]
    #23838663 - 11/16/16 12:13 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ferather said:
So now his cubensis is a wood lover too. Funny stuff.




eeeh... no :lol:

havent you seen RRs hat/bra/bibel pics? that doesnt mean he made cubes a cotton/polyester lover :lol:
its basically feeding off the grain spawn. just like when myc grow up the tub walls, you dont have a plastic loving cube.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: spacechildo]
    #23838674 - 11/16/16 12:16 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I realize that, the same goes for vermiculite, try fertilizing that with plant food and fruit from it.
Not going to happen, doubt it would even colonize, but paper does, and fruits too.

The answer is yes it will eat paper and wood, not saying its the best.
But see how the potential changed due to an additive.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Ferather]
    #23838681 - 11/16/16 12:17 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

But as I just pointed out it worked just fine for RR without the fertilizers.

if you wanna really put this to the test make a fert agar and germinate spores on it.
or keep transfering myc from a normal agar recipe plate onto fert agar and see how it fares after x amount of transfers.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Ferather]
    #23838682 - 11/16/16 12:18 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Have you fruited cubes from nothing but ferts and paper? I can't see you pulling much yield from that.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23838697 - 11/16/16 12:28 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I agree there may be little or no potential for cubes on paper. I think this is just a side test made from leftovers.
Side-by-side with and without plant fertilizer. Normal tek, and the same spawn and amount used.

Or whatever setup is best for side by side, maybe agar.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Ferather]
    #23838735 - 11/16/16 12:46 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote from RR 'Cubes are dung and straw loving mushrooms, not wood decomposers. Many different types of mushroom evolved to decompose different substrates. Cubes evolved in the compost rich soil beneath cow manure.

I just posted this a day or two ago. It's cubes fruiting on woodchips. It's not their normal diet and they fruit poorly on it, but they do fruit. . poorly.


'


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: spacechildo]
    #23838761 - 11/16/16 12:57 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

spacechildo said:
Quote:

Ferather said:
So now his cubensis is a wood lover too. Funny stuff.




eeeh... no :lol:

havent you seen RRs hat/bra/bibel pics? that doesnt mean he made cubes a cotton/polyester lover :lol:
its basically feeding off the grain spawn. just like when myc grow up the tub walls, you dont have a plastic loving cube.



Yeah, my guess is the paper is mainly acting as a scaffolding/matrix for the mycelium to run across and that it is digesting and "surviving" on the age old and residual nutrients from the spawn itself.  I'm not expecting it to fruit but it would be interesting if it did...


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Mycolorado]
    #23838766 - 11/16/16 01:00 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

what do you mean "residual nutrients from the spawn"?
the spawn is where the nutes are man, our tubs are so propped full they sub's usually exhausted before its out of nutes from the spawn. thats why you get outdoor mushrooms from throwing out spent subs.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: spacechildo]
    #23838808 - 11/16/16 01:21 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Out of curiosity spacechildo has anyone ever added soluble nutrients to grain and logged results?
Not arguing or anything, I am 100% just curious to see what happens as a result.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Ferather]
    #23838855 - 11/16/16 01:38 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

violet claimed it made her mushrooms more potent. but she didnt add it to grain in the sense I sense you're thinking, more of a soak in fert water.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: spacechildo]
    #23838860 - 11/16/16 01:41 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Hmmmm, ok thankyou spacechildo that is very helpful  :thumbup:


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: spacechildo]
    #23838867 - 11/16/16 01:43 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

spacechildo said:
what do you mean "residual nutrients from the spawn"?
the spawn is where the nutes are man, our tubs are so propped full they sub's usually exhausted before its out of nutes from the spawn. thats why you get outdoor mushrooms from throwing out spent subs.



I meant just that...the only reason it's growing at all is due to the spawn nutrients...I noted it at the beginning of the thread.  When I said "residual", I meant those left over not already used up by the mycelium is all...


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Mycolorado]
    #23838886 - 11/16/16 01:51 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I might try something with an edible and enriched brown rice.
Nothing to do with actives, just a curious side test.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Mycolorado]
    #23838903 - 11/16/16 01:55 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mycolorado said:
Quote:

spacechildo said:
what do you mean "residual nutrients from the spawn"?
the spawn is where the nutes are man, our tubs are so propped full they sub's usually exhausted before its out of nutes from the spawn. thats why you get outdoor mushrooms from throwing out spent subs.



I meant just that...the only reason it's growing at all is due to the spawn nutrients...I noted it at the beginning of the thread.  When I said "residual", I meant those left over not already used up by the mycelium is all...




only a minimum of the nutrition in the grains should have been eaten during colonization.
I do agree with you the reason you see colonization (if you can call it that) of the paper,bible,hat,plastic tub walls etc is leap off from the grains tho. but its not residual or miniscule in any way.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Ferather]
    #23838907 - 11/16/16 01:57 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ferather said:
I might try something with an edible and enriched brown rice.
Nothing to do with actives, just a curious side test.




then you'll just prove that your specie grows off brown rice.
if you really wanna put this fert theory to the test use only ferts as your source of nutrition.
thats why I recommended agar, its just a gelling agent, so if you germinate spores on pda/mea etc and transfer to fert agar you'll see leap off but for each transfer your culture will go weaker and weaker.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: spacechildo]
    #23838954 - 11/16/16 02:14 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

spacechildo said:
Quote:

Mycolorado said:
Quote:

spacechildo said:
what do you mean "residual nutrients from the spawn"?
the spawn is where the nutes are man, our tubs are so propped full they sub's usually exhausted before its out of nutes from the spawn. thats why you get outdoor mushrooms from throwing out spent subs.



I meant just that...the only reason it's growing at all is due to the spawn nutrients...I noted it at the beginning of the thread.  When I said "residual", I meant those left over not already used up by the mycelium is all...




only a minimum of the nutrition in the grains should have been eaten during colonization.
I do agree with you the reason you see colonization (if you can call it that) of the paper,bible,hat,plastic tub walls etc is leap off from the grains tho. but its not residual or miniscule in any way.



Does "remaining" work for you?  Let's stay on topic and not split hairs on semantics.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Mycolorado]
    #23839067 - 11/16/16 02:54 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

IMO its not semantics, its clearing up a misunderstanding you seemed to have that most/a lot of nutes are lost during colonization
while in fact its the opposite :shrug:


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: spacechildo]
    #23839090 - 11/16/16 03:01 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

There's no misunderstanding and nothing to clear up...you're simply doing your thing. Nowhere did I say anything that would suggest that.  Now quit jacking my thread.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Mycolorado] * 1
    #23839157 - 11/16/16 03:21 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

when you call the nutes in grain spawn "residual" you kinda do. at least IMO.
What a weird thing to get butthurt over... didn't mean to ruin your day tho...carry on.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: spacechildo]
    #23839694 - 11/16/16 06:22 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Ha!  I bet you ruin lots of shit; Fortunately, my day's not one of them.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Mycolorado]
    #23839786 - 11/16/16 07:04 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I have no idea what that's suppose to mean, or why you'd think that or let alone say it :shrug:
Have I hurt your feelings in another post somehow? Did I maybe call some of your jars bacterial?

Or is this just your way of icing down soreness you somehow got from this thread? :butthurt:


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: spacechildo]
    #23840838 - 11/17/16 07:03 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)



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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Mycolorado]
    #23840881 - 11/17/16 07:56 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I once tired a monotub made for all cardboard spawn that i made 2 gallons of in different buckets. That all came form one brf cake. It was the worst waste of space and coir i ever used. Got 13 dry grams after three flushes. What id be interested in this wl tek is making super cakes in bags with paper instead of verm. Cubes will fruit they just hate it


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: tump]
    #23852266 - 11/20/16 05:53 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Shaken again a couple days ago. Curious to see if it'll consolidate.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Mycolorado]
    #23852568 - 11/20/16 07:44 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Wow, it definitely ran through it.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Marty Mycfly]
    #23853357 - 11/21/16 06:14 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Interesting, some really thick morphs going on there. I also see some black is that some super dark bruising?
Or is it some sort of hyper digestion and it is turning black, or is it mold?


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Ferather]
    #23853407 - 11/21/16 07:05 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Not sure...noticed it as well.  Time will tell.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Mycolorado]
    #23853470 - 11/21/16 07:48 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

:popcorn:


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Ferather]
    #24039814 - 01/25/17 08:54 PM (7 years, 5 days ago)

Might case this jar and try to fruit it in the GH. There are a significant amount of primordia throughout the jar.  It is a couple months old and has definitely shrunk...another thought is to treat it like a cake and give it a dunk and roll.



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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Mycolorado]
    #24133654 - 03/03/17 01:01 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)



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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Mycolorado]
    #24159500 - 03/13/17 05:41 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)



A proper flush coming in:



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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Mycolorado]
    #24161736 - 03/14/17 02:14 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Looking pretty decent.



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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Mycolorado]
    #24161988 - 03/14/17 03:30 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Nice, so do you have these in GH?


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Marty Mycfly]
    #24162148 - 03/14/17 04:21 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

:thumbinator:


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Marty Mycfly]
    #24170594 - 03/17/17 05:49 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Nah, just in a mini mono. 



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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Mycolorado]
    #24170763 - 03/17/17 06:57 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

I almost want to say wood loving, but its just down to nutrients and genetic ability to digest cellulose.
Those do look quite coloured and nutritional as an image, nice clean flush so far.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Ferather]
    #24170800 - 03/17/17 07:14 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

so tell me, do you still get headaches when your head is so far up your ass or does it feel more like an analy induced orgasm?


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: spacechildo]
    #24170816 - 03/17/17 07:20 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

- constructive criticism  + rudeness


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Ferather]
    #24170822 - 03/17/17 07:24 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

We tried that months ago in this very thread didnt we, and look how far that got us.. now here's a new approach see if we can rustle some feathers and make people think at the same time..


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: spacechildo]
    #24170846 - 03/17/17 07:32 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Haha, here comes spacedildo!  What a fucktard.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Mycolorado]
    #24170850 - 03/17/17 07:35 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

:cheers:

simply go read back my last comments when you thought grains get spent after being colonized by myc and how "It simply muuuust be the paper doing the trick"..

I tried the childs way with you guys but it simply didnt stick, now I'm trying another way lets see whats more effective


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: spacechildo]
    #24170871 - 03/17/17 07:46 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)



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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Mycolorado]
    #24170876 - 03/17/17 07:48 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

yeah I know that theory is fuckin stupid, the only thing possibly dumber than it would be the noobs reading this thread, the sole reason why I even care to comment at this point, you guys may be lost causes but I know there's some talent out there just needing some guidance and a direction to go in.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Mycolorado]
    #24170910 - 03/17/17 08:04 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

No dude, the only thing dumber, would be you, for thinking this thread was anything more than a novelty project or that it was in an effort to prove something, let alone a how-to.  Maybe you should "simply" read back to the op where I say:

Quote:

Mycolorado said:
I had some extra enriched paper left over from another project and about an eighth cup of cube rye spawn and decided to see what would happen.




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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Ferather]
    #24170956 - 03/17/17 08:30 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Ferather said:
I almost want to say wood loving,




this is the stuff I'm replying to, I had my say on the OP months ago.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: spacechildo]
    #24171153 - 03/17/17 10:14 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Your comments come across as trollish, you have this "thing" with ferather and myco, I have seen it, and though you know they are just experimenting around you have the nastiest tone with them, no one is trying to take your place "teaching noobs" how to make coir tubs.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Marty Mycfly]
    #24171672 - 03/18/17 07:27 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

lol, I "have this thing" with everyone who spreads bad info, especially after I spent so much time right in this very thread explaining basic shrooming 101. It just usually doesnt take this amount of comments for someone to understand that yes grains have nutrition even tho they're colonized by myc..


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: spacechildo]
    #24171676 - 03/18/17 07:33 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

spacechildo said:
lol, I "have this thing" with everyone who spreads bad info, especially after I spent so much time right in this very thread explaining basic shrooming 101. It just usually doesnt take this amount of comments for someone to understand that yes grains have nutrition even tho they're colonized by myc..



you made your point and people listened, its a novelty grow - now less of the trolling, no need for it.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: spacechildo]
    #24171681 - 03/18/17 07:39 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

spacechildo said:
Quote:

Ferather said:
I almost want to say wood loving,




this is the stuff I'm replying to, I had my say on the OP months ago.




again, :whathesaid:
just because he does a novelty grow doesnt mean you can just spew any off the walls theory without being told back no dude you're dead wrong.

you guys are more than welcome to try explaining this shit in your own way to these guys, I've tried all other ways so now I'm trying this way..


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: spacechildo]
    #24171684 - 03/18/17 07:43 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Its clearly not just the nutrients from the spawn anyway, if that was the case then the myc wouldnt expand through the sub as the spawn is already colonised. Also it wouldnt be fruiting so well -its clearly eating up the sub with the added nutes.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Mattisfat]
    #24171691 - 03/18/17 07:50 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

yes it would its called leap off, its shrooming 101. just like myc crawls up tub walls. doesnt mean the myc draws nutes from the plastic tote.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Mattisfat]
    #24171694 - 03/18/17 07:52 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Imagine adding starch and sugar free grain flour to coir (cellulose, hemicellulose, lignin, pectin).

Now imagine a similar process with soluble nutrients and paper pellets (cellulose, hemicellulose, lignin).

Would you say there is a huge difference between the two?


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Ferather]
    #24171703 - 03/18/17 07:59 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

for the 100th time, cubes does not feed on plant fertilizers :facepalm:


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: spacechildo]
    #24171709 - 03/18/17 08:06 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

i dont think this is anything like myc climbing walls, its simply giving them the nutrients they need in another way. I think your wrong im sorry.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: spacechildo]
    #24171711 - 03/18/17 08:08 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

I will giggle when he makes paper spawn and then fruits using paper spawn in the same way, enough now.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Mattisfat]
    #24171714 - 03/18/17 08:11 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Mattisfat said:
i dont think this is anything like myc climbing walls, its simply giving them the nutrients they need in another way. I think your wrong im sorry.




no dude, its called leap off. search it.
I really dont understand why you're making me repeat myself again, just go back and read the first page here to understand why cubes doesnt feed off paper.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: spacechildo]
    #24171732 - 03/18/17 08:26 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

no its digesting the nutrients added with the plant food with the paper, even if it didnt have added nutrients im certain the cubes would still eat the paper but fruit poorly. RR got cubes to fruit from just woodchips as i quoted on an earlier post. come on man, i dont get why you cant have an open mind.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Mattisfat]
    #24171734 - 03/18/17 08:28 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)


heres cubes on just woodchips, no added nutes


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Mattisfat]
    #24171745 - 03/18/17 08:32 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Cubensis will digest many materials, but it won't fruit well without certain nutrients.
It will colonize materials, and fruit when fertilizer lands on top or near it.

This is why it's labelled "Dung loving", fertilizer = N-P-K + trace.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Ferather]
    #24171778 - 03/18/17 08:47 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Cubes fruit on paper and sawdust probably getting most of their fruiting potential from the agar puck/wedge (or spawn) used to inoculate the paper/wood

I've seen better looking and more numerous shrooms fruit from agar dishes and leftover grain in the bottom of quart jars.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Mattisfat]
    #24171785 - 03/18/17 08:48 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Mattisfat said:
no its digesting the nutrients added with the plant food with the paper, even if it didnt have added nutrients im certain the cubes would still eat the paper but fruit poorly. RR got cubes to fruit from just woodchips as i quoted on an earlier post. come on man, i dont get why you cant have an open mind.




its like you trying to convince me that 1+1 = 3 and then complain I dont have an open mind..
you WANNA believe that the myc gets nutes from the paper, okay, but then you choose not to believe it can get nutes from the plastic tub
even tho its the exact same thing happening.. myc can grow right over almost anything as long as it has a good nute source to leap off from, like say grain kernels. those are propped with what cubes crave not some fertilizer meant for plants..


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: spacechildo]
    #24171792 - 03/18/17 08:51 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

spacechildo said:
Quote:

Mattisfat said:
no its digesting the nutrients added with the plant food with the paper, even if it didnt have added nutrients im certain the cubes would still eat the paper but fruit poorly. RR got cubes to fruit from just woodchips as i quoted on an earlier post. come on man, i dont get why you cant have an open mind.




its like you trying to convince me that 1+1 = 3 and then complain I dont have an open mind..
you WANNA believe that the myc gets nutes from the paper, okay, but then you choose not to believe it can get nutes from the plastic tub
even tho its the exact same thing happening.. myc can grow right over almost anything as long as it has a good nute source to leap off from, like say grain kernels. those are propped with what cubes crave not some fertilizer meant for plants..



so tell me which nutrients cubes need to fruit well and what amount and lets compare to whats in the fertiliser


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Mattisfat]
    #24171796 - 03/18/17 08:53 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

I'm sure they get just a little bit of nutrition from paper and wood. worth growing them on paper or wood, no lol.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Mattisfat]
    #24171802 - 03/18/17 08:55 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Mattisfat said:
Quote:

spacechildo said:
Quote:

Mattisfat said:
no its digesting the nutrients added with the plant food with the paper, even if it didnt have added nutrients im certain the cubes would still eat the paper but fruit poorly. RR got cubes to fruit from just woodchips as i quoted on an earlier post. come on man, i dont get why you cant have an open mind.




its like you trying to convince me that 1+1 = 3 and then complain I dont have an open mind..
you WANNA believe that the myc gets nutes from the paper, okay, but then you choose not to believe it can get nutes from the plastic tub
even tho its the exact same thing happening.. myc can grow right over almost anything as long as it has a good nute source to leap off from, like say grain kernels. those are propped with what cubes crave not some fertilizer meant for plants..



so tell me which nutrients cubes need to fruit well and what amount and lets compare to whats in the fertiliser




CUBES DOESNT EAT FERTILIZERS!!!!

every chemical element on earth comes from the sun spewing out H and He atoms, so anything on earth comes from H and He, doesnt mean you or your mushies can survive on helium.. come on dude.
plenty of nitrogen in urine, does that make you wanna piss in your tubs?


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: spacechildo]
    #24171809 - 03/18/17 08:58 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

so if we took the fertiliser out then it would fruit exactly the same ... right


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Mattisfat]
    #24171865 - 03/18/17 09:29 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

mycelium eats its substrate by creating enzymes to break down the nutrients on offer, now given the fact that there are nutrients in the fertiliser that it can use why cant it use them/ break them down. You havnt given me any reasons why it cant digest the fertiliser - you just keep stomping your feet saying that it wont.
A good possibility is that the levels of nutrients in the fertiliser arent enough for cubensis to fruit to its full potential - if we can figure out what else it needs or has too much of then you can alter the tek and get better fruits.
I am happy to change my mind if someone can provide scientific evidence that i am wrong, just no-one is giving me that atm.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Mattisfat]
    #24171874 - 03/18/17 09:36 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

It's not that none of the components of ferts are useless to cubes, more that they simply cannot use them in that amount. Nitrogen, potassium, calcium or sulfur are good for the organism but, it needs those things in such small quantities that the volume provided in plant ferts are kind of overkill. Meanwhile the nutes the species needs in abundance are absent from the ferts. Cubes want cellulose, protein and some starch more than nitrogen or potassium.

Giving cubes plant ferts to live on is like a person trying to survive on nothing more than vitamin suppliments.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #24171877 - 03/18/17 09:39 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
It's not that none of the components of ferts are useless to cubes, more that they simply cannot use them in that amount. Nitrogen, potassium, calcium or sulfur are good for the organism but, it needs those things in such small quantities that the volume provided in plant ferts are kind of overkill. Meanwhile the nutes the species needs in abundance are absent from the ferts. Cubes want cellulose protein and some starch more than nitrogen or potassium.

Giving cubes plant ferts to live on is like a person trying to survive on nothing more than vitamin suppliments.



This is a much better answer, thank you pastywhyte. Have you tried figuring out what  sort of percentages of those nutrients is benificial?


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Mattisfat]
    #24171882 - 03/18/17 09:42 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

btw it looks like paper is made with alot of cellulose and starch - i cant seem to find the percentages though


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Mattisfat]
    #24171884 - 03/18/17 09:42 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

No, but I have found that since cubes fruit prolifically from simple grain and coir extremely well and those materials only contain those things in trace amounts. I add nitrogen to my spawn via coffee in the grain soak and that's it. Get great results.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Mattisfat]
    #24171891 - 03/18/17 09:44 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Mattisfat said:
Its clearly not just the nutrients from the spawn anyway, if that was the case then the myc wouldnt expand through the sub as the spawn is already colonised. Also it wouldnt be fruiting so well -its clearly eating up the sub with the added nutes.



Why would colonised spawn not expand? If it was verm it would have grown through it, and RR shows it grows through fabric or paper.

In the pics of RR's woodchips it was not simply cubes on wood.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5466797

it was cubes on colonised wood. I wonder if it could possibly have been feeding off the myc of the other "woodlover mushroom".

1/8th of a cup of grain was used in this, that is not is not insignificant by any means, it would be interesting it if had been weighed properly to see the BE, which could be a good indication if it is using the paper. I have gotten high BE off small grows.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Mycolorado]
    #24171892 - 03/18/17 09:45 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Honestly, who cares?  Now that this bitch broke 1000 (thanks dildo!) and the mighty pasty has spoken, may as well lock it!  Was curious watching people get all worked up over nothing, though.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Mattisfat]
    #24171895 - 03/18/17 09:46 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Mattisfat said:
btw it looks like paper is made with alot of cellulose and starch - i cant seem to find the percentages though




Its lacking protein and is high in lignin. Lignin is useless to cubes as a food source however most agaricales are able to colonize it easily. It might be suitable as bulk substrate because the purpose of bulk is mostly to provide water.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #24171911 - 03/18/17 09:54 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Pasty where were you 2 pages ago mate haha
So are you saying water content is more important in bulk sub, nutrients dont make noticable difference?


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Mattisfat]
    #24171916 - 03/18/17 09:58 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Mattisfat said:
Pasty where were you 2 pages ago mate haha
So are you saying water content is more important in bulk sub, nutrients dont make noticable difference?




Absolutely. I did a side by side on this like a year ago. Coir verm sub outperformed a coir verm manure sub. Manure is thought to hold more nutes so I was initially thinking it would be advantage manure. Then it didn't, 3 separate clones all did better on the simple coir verm. Coir does hold a lot more water than manure so the coir tubs were heavier despite having the same volume of sub.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #24171925 - 03/18/17 10:02 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

So what if you used a really small amount of coir and mixed with a load of verm - that would give you a really great water content and the substrate should all colonise. Surely that would then give great fruits? Sorry if im coming across confrontational im not trying to be - i, like ferather just wanted a greater understanding of how the organism functions.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Mattisfat]
    #24171929 - 03/18/17 10:04 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

You can grow with just verm as the bulk. It's called rez tek. I did it a few times and had great results. Only problem is verm is a lot more expensive than coir. Coir also has a bit of a better texture for pinning.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Mattisfat]
    #24171939 - 03/18/17 10:08 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Right, well that makes sense. Thanks Pasty.

One last question, could it be that it has enough nutes due to high spawn ratio? if you sterilised you sub and used less spawn, would it need added nutes to the bulk sub?


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Mattisfat]
    #24171945 - 03/18/17 10:10 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

The high spawn ratios we use are for sure a big factor. Less spawn might need a more nute loaded sub. But I'm not convinced coir is as devoid of nutes as people think. Working on an experiment for that.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #24171956 - 03/18/17 10:17 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

https://www.thesuperfoods.net/coconut/benefits-of-coconut-fibre

just googling 'eating coconut fiber' brings up a ton of shit. i guarantee its has nutes just
not the kind invasive molds need??? no clue about that one.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: mushboy]
    #24172000 - 03/18/17 10:40 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

I've been doing solely coir+spawn tubs. No verm no gypsum. Just oats and coir.

They go 5/6 flushes no problem. First flush is generally in the .75-1.25 oz per quart of spawn using average not stellar performance clones. The overall yield over all the flushes together is around 2.5-3.5oz per quart.

~100 gram fruits coming out of a substrate past the 4th crumbled up in a trash bag



On an only coir and oat tub

Mycelium digests the spawn/sub slowly. Metabolism creates heat so too much nutrition can be detrimental.

Edibles are supplemented sometimes but spawn rates are usually far lower than we do with cubensis.

There's more than enough power from spawn alone. So no shit you get pins on paper and wood. You had to inoculate the wood or paper with something that something is powering the fruits.

The substrate should supply water effectively to support the flush.

We call them poo lovers but I think they're more grass lovers and poo is a niche environment and water source and pin platform in big open fields with little shade and direct sunlight.

Regardless of what I think. Empericaly derived evidence shows that spawn is rarely used to potential so substrate choice basically means shit since most people can't push 2oz per quart of spawn anyway. When you can do that you'll realize substrate choice is more about water retention and supply. Coir is damn near impossible to contaminate so that's just more benefits


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24172033 - 03/18/17 10:55 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:

There's more than enough power




Quote:

Violet said:
But is there anything we can do to straight-up boost power? Why yes, my friends, there is!





:classictroll:


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: mushboy]
    #24172049 - 03/18/17 11:00 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

do cubes have different yield percentages if different spawn is used(wbs,rye,oats)? if you can figure out which spawn is the best you can compare nutrition and see what sub would work best if you tried to do a low spawn ratio. Maybe as long as the nutrients are within a certain range it doesnt matter? who knows, im just interested. I dont even grow cubes just edibles but this is great info/discussion...mostly.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Mattisfat]
    #24172057 - 03/18/17 11:05 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

"power boost" is how you get noobs to find your crap first. Unless there's some compelling evidence that "power" is boosted you shouldn't be false advertising.

Mycelium will slow it's metabolism so it doesn't bake itself. May as well use normal spawn rates and try to fruit it to its potential.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24172069 - 03/18/17 11:11 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
"power boost" is how you get noobs to find your crap first. Unless there's some compelling evidence that "power" is boosted you shouldn't be false advertising.

Mycelium will slow it's metabolism so it doesn't bake itself. May as well use normal spawn rates and try to fruit it to its potential.



not sure if the first part is for me or mushboy, im certainly not on about a power boost, more just trying to understand why a sub has enough nutrients and ways to improve your teks. If you did low spawn rates you could potentially save money and make your spawn jars go further.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: mushboy]
    #24172079 - 03/18/17 11:14 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
Quote:

bodhisatta said:

There's more than enough power




Quote:

Violet said:
But is there anything we can do to straight-up boost power? Why yes, my friends, there is!





:classictroll:




Save money lol.
Three bricks of coir = $7
One 50# bag of oats $12

Not even $20 and I can do 3 tubs with enough grain to do dozens more tubs.

Spawn is so cheap I would up my spawn rate if it helped


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24172086 - 03/18/17 11:18 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
May as well use normal spawn rates and try to fruit it to its potential.





i do.. i was joking.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: mushboy]
    #24172094 - 03/18/17 11:21 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

fair enough


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: mushboy]
    #24172095 - 03/18/17 11:21 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

I know


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24172102 - 03/18/17 11:25 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

oh...
ill see myself out. thank you.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: mushboy]
    #24172107 - 03/18/17 11:29 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

:confused::bongload:


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: spacechildo]
    #24172123 - 03/18/17 11:34 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

found a new avatar for you space :wink:


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #24172168 - 03/18/17 11:55 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

You want yields then focus on genetics, conditions and clean spawn. Plant ferts are a smokescreen IMO.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #24172173 - 03/18/17 11:57 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

agreed.

clean, healthly spawn and some good genetics will dominate any fert grow.


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24172218 - 03/18/17 12:23 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Psilosopherr said:
found a new avatar for you space :wink:




cool. I like the short bus better tho, it gets the message across. all aboard!
now maybe spend a little more time researching instead of hating me for crushing your dreams of fertilized grows?
you got a few TCs here backing up what I'm saying..isnt that why we're all here? keep the bs away and keep improving? instead of supporting any random idea we know are based off false pretenses just "to be nice"?


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Re: Cubes on Bastardized WL Tek (paper) [Re: spacechildo]
    #24176807 - 03/20/17 05:21 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Are there no requirements for labeling something a TEK?

:teareally:


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