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Offlinemantis83
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magic mushroom journey
    #23825797 - 11/12/16 12:29 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

hi,

I am not very experienced with magic mushrooms, having only journeyed a few times. But this time I wish to make this journey THE journey, the journey that brings me to a place of complete enlightenment and self-realization. I really want to do this, but kind of scared at the same time. Basically I feel like I am not able to "pass" whatever it is that is "blocking" me from high spiritual experience and enlightenment. Well, at least that's how I feel when totally sober. In other words, meditation not bringing me to my highest self. But hopefully a magic mushroom journey would be able to do that. But hopefully if it is absolutely possible, ego-death and cosmic enlightenment, I really want to do this.
thanks and have a good day


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OfflineEch0
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Re: magic mushroom journey [Re: mantis83]
    #23825806 - 11/12/16 12:33 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Dont go in with expectations.

My most profound trip, even more so than DMT, was taking 1 gram of shrooms when very drunk at a club - whoda thought it?


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: magic mushroom journey [Re: Ech0]
    #23825871 - 11/12/16 01:06 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

The non-doing of any evil,
the performance of what's skillful,
the cleansing of one's own mind:
    this is the teaching
    of the Awakened. •

This is general overview of what some people practice for years in order to do what you speak of, with and without plant or fungi.

Without the aforementioned and being clean of sin (missing the mark of your duty as not practicing a life of morality, concentration, and wisdom) in your daily life you cannot expect to pass into and out of the supra mundane states which are simple by products of the mind absorbed in meditation practice (aka morality, concentration, and wisdom in the act of pure reflection).

At least, that is what some who are better then me have said, and I have found true enough.


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Offlinemantis83
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Re: magic mushroom journey [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23825883 - 11/12/16 01:09 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

thanks for the input.

But I cannot achieve this just through meditation, I have tried really hard and for quite some time. To be honest I do not want to take any type of plant or fungi but no matter how hard I try with meditation it just doesn't work and my mind is permanently fucked up and my body is sick too. I just don't know how I can ever attain those states which I was born to attain.

thanks for the help


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: magic mushroom journey [Re: mantis83]
    #23825900 - 11/12/16 01:13 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

What mediation do you speak of?  What tradition?  Because where Im from to use meditation in the way you speak of it is to be missing the whole point.  And would get you a good wack over the head.  Trying to achieve something special , that is not with you as you meditate is a good way to get confused and lose faith and interest in meditation and thus its purpose is lost.  Who taught you what about meditation because It looks like a common mistake a I see in people without a good guide and ones who have just begun. 

Is your practice daily?


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: magic mushroom journey [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23825907 - 11/12/16 01:15 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Its like your using meditation like you would use a wishing well... thats just not how it works my brother.

Compared to whatever your doing It may do you boundless good to read this and take it to heart and practice using it as a basic guideline...
http://www.zen-occidental.net/textesmeditation/fujimoto1.html


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Edited by The Blind Ass (11/12/16 01:27 PM)


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OfflineHamHead
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Re: magic mushroom journey [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23825998 - 11/12/16 01:56 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

You can not reach or grab for enlightenment, it is something that you must achieve through daily life.

In Buddhism, you are all things, all emotions, all thoughts, all at once.

Once you realize this and acknowledge each moment as it passes and the thoughts and emotions, accompanying each moment (and there are an infinite number number of moments all strung together to create your/our lives), you can recognize the current state that you are in at any given moment. Knowing how you feel in each moment and realizing that you will not be in that state of being forever, that you will forever return to some kind of base line thought where there are no thoughts or emotions. This is when I feel you become awakened and well on your way to enlightenment. Enlightenment in my opinion is when you become fully aware of your present moment and those things attached, physical or mental or spiritual, to said moments, and recognizing the state of mind you are in and accepting and mindfully move through each moment and emotion.

Just thoughts, take them as you will. I have got to get ready for work.

:cheers:


--------------------
The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF

This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited,  but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders

https://www.icandecide.org/


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Offlinemantis83
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Re: magic mushroom journey [Re: HamHead]
    #23826215 - 11/12/16 03:25 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

So from what I gather here, taking mushrooms in an attempt to reach a high state of enlightenment will in fact, not make me enlightened. Well that's to bad. I think I should try anyway. No amount of meditation is making me more spiritually attuned, not even sitting in zazen. I don't know what I can do really


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InvisibleAstralAndrew
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Re: magic mushroom journey [Re: mantis83]
    #23826296 - 11/12/16 03:49 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Hahaha you're clearly trying the wrong meditations... Everytime I leave my body sober is way crazier than any trip i've had,
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/16254951-out-of-body-experiences
This book actually is amazing for techniques and how to build up your imagination, really helped me:shrug:. Keep in mind, mental alteration takes time so, be patient. Someone who has tripped a few times and now wants to be enlightened and fully aware of all his or her's issues, doesn't come off to me as someone who knows really, at all what to expect. I hope you have a safe place and a comfy bed to flail around in.:rockon:Saying fuckit with mushrooms is super scary when they say fuckit back, I'll put it that way.

Just be safe and REMEMBER, don't fight it..:mushroom2: You will feel enlightened for a few days after, maybe less. There's no instant enlightenment and self realization, it's cyclical in nature. (i.e. meditation, proper diet, proper sleeping, proper exercise, reading, puzzles, etc.) The epiphanies from these substances put into motion are what change someone, not the substances themselves. That's why meditation is good for the same thing, these epiphanies come from the source, you.


--------------------
:dawerp::awepreciation::trippinbawelz::raveface::aweyeah::awecid:

"The opposite for courage is not cowardice, it is conformity. Even a dead fish can go with the flow." - Jim Hightower


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Offlinemantis83
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Re: magic mushroom journey [Re: AstralAndrew]
    #23826354 - 11/12/16 04:09 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Someone who has tripped a few times and now wants to be enlightened and fully aware of all his or her's issues, doesn't come off to me as someone who knows really, at all what to expect.




sorry, but I was born an ancient yogi. I don't need to be insulted by somebody who thinks that they are enlightened. Kindly fuck off with your "advice"


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: magic mushroom journey [Re: HamHead]
    #23826401 - 11/12/16 04:22 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

HamHead said:
You can not reach or grab for enlightenment, it is something that you must achieve through daily life.

In Buddhism, you are all things, all emotions, all thoughts, all at once.

Once you realize this and acknowledge each moment as it passes and the thoughts and emotions, accompanying each moment (and there are an infinite number number of moments all strung together to create your/our lives), you can recognize the current state that you are in at any given moment. Knowing how you feel in each moment and realizing that you will not be in that state of being forever, that you will forever return to some kind of base line thought where there are no thoughts or emotions. This is when I feel you become awakened and well on your way to enlightenment. Enlightenment in my opinion is when you become fully aware of your present moment and those things attached, physical or mental or spiritual, to said moments, and recognizing the state of mind you are in and accepting and mindfully move through each moment and emotion.

Just thoughts, take them as you will. I have got to get ready for work.

:cheers:




Im sorry but for clarity's sake and to stop the spread of misinformation i say this is not in line with what Master Gotama has spoken.  That is the modern, incorrect, wrong view of the Buddha's teaching.  In fact, all those things you spoke off are not self, because they all have the 3 marks of existence:  namely impermanence (anicca), unsatisfactoriness or suffering (dukkha), and non-self (anattā).

And to the OP, sitting Zazen is what it all comes back too, but without following the 8 fold path  (or stripped down without religion but the same principles) with intense self discipline you will not have the right view that is Morality.  Without morality you will not have right concentration, without right concentration you will not escape birth and death (meaningless/painful cyclical existence or samsara) without escaping  birth and death (samsara) you will not know the Great Perfection directly ( Wisdom ).

Not to mention the 5 precepts in Buddhism which you are not living by that is literally almost a 100% complete neccesity to even begin the 8 fold path seriously, without that real mediation is impossible, and it falls to things like just calming yourself and calling it meditation, or trying to get some cheap high or some revelation or escape from problems and calling it meditation.

This is the gradual path ~ 95% subscribe to.
The other path is not dualistic and is in some rare parts of Zen, but mostly in Dzogchen..

Anyways... look it up if you want.  You have to start at the beginning with Buddhism because it is empirical.  Too many are confused and running around with wrong view because they did not - and they still suffer greatly and are delusional but they wrongly believe it suits them ~ regardless of a special experience or insight about their own life.

Your chase to whatever it is your aiming at is a hindrance, there is one taste to the Path and it is Release, and the result, Unbinding.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (11/12/16 04:25 PM)


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Offlinemantis83
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Re: magic mushroom journey [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23826421 - 11/12/16 04:27 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

so you are saying that sitting in zazen everday will eventually "unbind" me and make me cosmically enlightened?

I really don't want to take shrooms or anything to be honest. I really want to try dmt again though. Or live in solitude in the forest for many many months with shaman and dieting plants. But too afraid to do that and don't have the money to either at the time.

so you're saying that sitting in zazen at home where I am can make me eventually enlightened?


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OfflineHamHead
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Re: magic mushroom journey [Re: mantis83]
    #23826438 - 11/12/16 04:32 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Mushrooms can only show you a glimpse, in the proper set and setting mind you. Think of it as a helicopter ride to the top of a mountain as being the psychedelic experience, while a sober path is hiking up the side of the mountain on foot. There are things to be appreciated in both, which should be recognized, because the psychedelic is going to take you right back down to the valley going, what the fuck, now what.

Thanks for clarify, I'm still very new to Buddhism and it's teachings.


--------------------
The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF

This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited,  but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders

https://www.icandecide.org/


Edited by HamHead (11/12/16 04:39 PM)


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: magic mushroom journey [Re: mantis83]
    #23826456 - 11/12/16 04:38 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Im saying Zazen wont do a thing but make you worse, or put you to sleep, or give you more trouble  if you dont have the foundations.  Get a real teacher, become a Monk.  You can just stay for the customary 3 years and learn the basics ... only then will you know how to do Zazen, which is the expression of unbinding in action and the full taste of being with, and therefor released.

Without following the 5 precepts, and the 8 fold path, and the way of Zazen in your daily life 24/7 you will basically be blocked from entering the stream you seek.  You have to clean up your act really really good, and work honestly and hard without despair.  Are you telling me you already live by the 5 precepts and 8 fold path in principle and in action?  regardless of what I call them, they are universal principles taught by the awakened ones.

If you dont do that, no amount of "meditation" will .  Meditation should be helping you see how your falling short in regards to spiritual practice, should give you awareness of the body and its condition, and should discipline the mind in concentration to stay on whatever you put it on.

Through your object of concentration you can conjure things like joy, rapture, bliss, and what not.  But they are eventually abandoned when you continue advancing.  If you learn properly you can enter different Jhanic consciousness daily without any outside aid. But they build on each other and are major hindrances to many monks so you cannot jump from 0 to 3, you have to go through 0-1-2 etc., this is where a real teacher (not some guru who thinks he knows it all) one that understands the teaching of the awakened, and the doctrine and more importantly has direct personal experience practicing it over decades.

But if you dont atleast Temporarily abandon the 5 hinderances while practicing sitting meditation you will do nothing but confuse and upset yourself .

1  Sensual desire
2  Ill-will or aversion
3  Restlessness and scruples (anxiety)
4  Sloth and Unconsciousness
5  Doubt

that and having the Discernment of greed anger and delusion in the mind and their birth, life, and death in the mind as they occur without becoming entranced and so possessed by them.  But that will only happen if your living a moral life and really know right from wrong without deceiving yourself even 1%.  The duty of the Monk  is to 1, not deceive himself.  I remember starting and being swamped by my own fabrications and discursive thinking and my legs hurting and my posture being very poor and falling asleep and developing the wrong view and also the wrong practice until I went to the monastery and saw the ones really doing It, were there.

They are not weekend warriors, they are living warriors of the way on the way to the summit or there and here already.  More Human then super human, so they appear simple, but they are beyond , and they are true.  Go learn from them - NOT a drug Forum.  You can always go for a bit and then take it and live a normal conditioned life but with greater meaning and greater influence and goodness from what you learned there and now practice in your life outside the temple.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (11/12/16 04:50 PM)


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Offlinemantis83
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Re: magic mushroom journey [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23826477 - 11/12/16 04:44 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I have all five of these problems that you listed when I sit to attempt meditation. So basically I cannot practice meditation. And since I cannot practice meditation, I cannot ever even begin my quest back into truth, liberation, and everlasting universal consciousness. This is really bad. What could I possibly do to fix this? do you think seeing a shaman/medicine man and staying alone in a forest for months would help me to break through into some form of healing? This is tough, i don't think i can ever even re-begin my quest for self realization and enlightenment and liberation.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: magic mushroom journey [Re: mantis83]
    #23826482 - 11/12/16 04:45 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mantis83 said:
hi,

I am not very experienced with magic mushrooms, having only journeyed a few times. But this time I wish to make this journey THE journey, the journey that brings me to a place of complete enlightenment and self-realization. I really want to do this, but kind of scared at the same time. Basically I feel like I am not able to "pass" whatever it is that is "blocking" me from high spiritual experience and enlightenment. Well, at least that's how I feel when totally sober. In other words, meditation not bringing me to my highest self. But hopefully a magic mushroom journey would be able to do that. But hopefully if it is absolutely possible, ego-death and cosmic enlightenment, I really want to do this.
thanks and have a good day




It's sorta-maybe possible but the problem tends to be bringing back from the experience the experience itself, which is a slippery thing indeed.

Buddhism teaches that there is no end-state of "complete" enlightenment, there are only progressive states of decreasing delusion.  Meditation (and yes, following the precepts) will take you there, some of the time, for some people, but it's not a guarantee either.

You can trip and lose yourself and merge with the godhead (AKA ground of being, AKA undifferentiated mind) and it's an amazing experience, in part because there is no "you" experiencing this.  But what then when the trip wears off and the ego reasserts itself - how do you make this journey without the aid of the drug?

To answer your question though, at least a little - with set and setting all good, dose dependent effects predominate, but you really never know. Sometimes it happens when you're least expecting it. Being open to the experience in all ways is highly beneficial. :shrug:


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Edited by PrimalSoup (11/12/16 04:53 PM)


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: magic mushroom journey [Re: mantis83]
    #23826529 - 11/12/16 04:58 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

You need a teacher, the remedy for those 5 "problems" as you call them - when they are actually hindrances, is prescribed already.

Begin with the 5 moral precepts, and the 8 fold path.  Its to transform you so that your mind is pliable and then its yours to reign.  Once the mind is subjugated via the path and precepts you can sit meditation in ease and comfort and unlock untold siddhis where you accomplish things beyond your imagination.  But the foundations are first, got it? 

If you give up before you even start, you never even gave it a shot my friend.  And you have not even given it a real shot. This is not something that you can just pick up like an xbox and plug and play.

Got to start at the beginning, and its life long.  If you want it to be.

Like i said, Zen, Dzogchen, aka Mahayana and Hinayana and Vajriyana (greater vehicle, older vehicle, and special vehicle)  together have everything you need to know - but its not a path of just reading and knowing intellectually - in fact , its one of Doing and action.

One is the gradual path, the other the immediate path.  But really its more like its in between the both of them or something else altogether. 

Sounds like you want the lazy comfy way - go for Dzogchen, NOT ZEN ! haha  you'll see what I mean maybe.


--------------------
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Edited by The Blind Ass (11/12/16 05:14 PM)


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: magic mushroom journey [Re: mantis83]
    #23826555 - 11/12/16 05:06 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Gotama tried the drug/shamanic route and found it unsatisfactory.  It is not talked about much, but those who know the history of his teachers from when he was an ascetic in India know of it.

He learned something good from each teacher but ultimately discovered his own skillful way , the drug method thrown out because it leads to heedlessness and lots of wrong views and immorality ( sure it can Also lead to temporary bliss and feelings of "oneness" and compassion from it, but its temporary and illusory like a dream and most importantly gives birth to Craving in the Mind - which is the main cause of created suffering). He devised a natural method to direct realization to resolve life's Gordian knot, ultimately giving up the aristocrat life and the ascetic life for something in accord with the Middle way.

At Savatthi Gotama Spoke: "For a monk practicing the Dhamma in accordance with the Dhamma, what accords with the Dhamma is this: that he keep focused on stress with regard to form, that he keep focused on stress with regard to feeling, that he keep focused on stress with regard to perception, that he keep focused on stress with regard to fabrications, that he keep focused on stress with regard to consciousness. As he keeps focusing on stress with regard to form... feeling... perception... fabrications... consciousness, he comprehends form... feeling... perception... fabrications... consciousness. As he comprehends form... feeling... perception... fabrications... consciousness, he is totally released from form... feeling... perception... fabrications... consciousness. He is totally released from sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs. He is totally released, I tell you, from suffering & stress."

The non-doing of any evil,
the performance of what's skillful,
the cleansing of one's own mind:
    this is the teaching
    of the Awakened.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (11/12/16 05:18 PM)


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InvisibleAstralAndrew
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Re: magic mushroom journey [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23826580 - 11/12/16 05:15 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mantis83 said:
Quote:

Someone who has tripped a few times and now wants to be enlightened and fully aware of all his or her's issues, doesn't come off to me as someone who knows really, at all what to expect.




sorry, but I was born an ancient yogi. I don't need to be insulted by somebody who thinks that they are enlightened. Kindly fuck off with your "advice"



Just because you were 'born an ancient yogi,' not sure what that really means, doesn't mean you know what to expect from mushrooms in a high dose, I don't know how much you've done in the case of shrooms, but you will most likely in your quest for enlightenment, forget, who/what/where/how/why you are. Don't care who you were born as, that shit is scary for anyone, also beautiful. You also only bring back pieces of that trip, it'll be like a dream almost.

I don't think, if I was you in this case, that I would be insulted by what I said. That's kind of silly after saying, "I am not very experienced with magic mushrooms, having only journeyed a few times."
You might wanna be a little more open to constructive criticism on this sight or you wont like the answers you get man.:peace::shrug:


--------------------
:dawerp::awepreciation::trippinbawelz::raveface::aweyeah::awecid:

"The opposite for courage is not cowardice, it is conformity. Even a dead fish can go with the flow." - Jim Hightower


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: magic mushroom journey [Re: AstralAndrew]
    #23826607 - 11/12/16 05:23 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Mushrooms have a time and place, but its rare and few and far between.  Anything more IMHO is recreation or abuse under the guise of something else.


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