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Invisiblebirdeatingspider
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Bearded Dragons
    #23822440 - 11/11/16 09:44 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Not sure where to post this, was wondering if any shroomerites keep bearded dragons.  More specifically, if anyone can help with Metabolic Bone Disease?

Our juvenile is afflicted, blood test confirmed.  He twitches, is quite lethargic, and when he does move his legs get dragged.  As heartbreaking as it is to witness, I am beginning to wonder if he is suffering and needs to be let go.

Does anyone have experience with MBD and if so, any wisdom that isn't easily found over the internet?  We spent $50 on a really good bulb and have upped his calcium, have been struggling with this for close to a month.



--------------------

From all I may be, or have been before,
To mingle with the Universe, and feel
What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.

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OfflineThe Mycologist
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Re: Bearded Dragons [Re: birdeatingspider]
    #23822461 - 11/11/16 09:51 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

That sucks bro. I'm sending good vibes to you and your beardie. I will say that mine is very lethargic/lazy and basically chills in one spot all day.

I even got a leash for him and he just doesn't care to walk around outside really.

I figured this was their nature, but you have a diagnosis so that's a different story. Whats the prognosis?


--------------------
"That you are here—that life exists, and identity;
That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.”
― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass
:acidfire::tmckenna:

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Invisiblebirdeatingspider
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Re: Bearded Dragons [Re: The Mycologist]
    #23822506 - 11/11/16 10:03 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

That's the thing this vet was the only one for two hours and I am questioning if she's any good.  All she said was that she has seen them struggle and survive and where they are seemingly getting better then out of no where die.  She believes it's 50/50 and to wait and see, but there has been no progress and last night I was thinking if he is in pain we wouldn't know. 

Thank you for the good vibes.. it's tearing me apart, never thought I would get so attached:sad:


--------------------

From all I may be, or have been before,
To mingle with the Universe, and feel
What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.

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OfflineThe Mycologist
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Registered: 05/06/16
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Re: Bearded Dragons [Re: birdeatingspider]
    #23822992 - 11/11/16 01:00 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

His face looks healthy at least. Mine is old and looks pretty decrepit


--------------------
"That you are here—that life exists, and identity;
That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.”
― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass
:acidfire::tmckenna:

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Invisiblebirdeatingspider
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Re: Bearded Dragons [Re: The Mycologist]
    #23823589 - 11/11/16 05:07 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks.. his coloring I attribute to the fancy bulb we have on him.  It's so hard to watch him borderline seizing, however.  Wish I knew how to make him well :undecided:


--------------------

From all I may be, or have been before,
To mingle with the Universe, and feel
What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.

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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Bearded Dragons [Re: birdeatingspider]
    #23824071 - 11/11/16 08:28 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

In addition to supplementing his food with calcium, you need another suppliment.. I think it's D3..  calcium does the skeletal work, d3 is what makes it 'absorb'..

They grow fast.  The vet should have given him some shots.  You need to also feed him calcium rich foods like kale.

The thing with bearded dragons is, in the first 18 months or so they grow so fast so it's like a drag race.. they dont only need supplimental calcium, they also need suppliment to help it absorb.  Bulb, included.

A vet should have been able to give him some injections assuming he isn't too far down the line.  Get him on a quality calcium suppliment, plus (I think is D3, for absorbtion) and run a hight quality vita-light..  maybe he'll pull out of it.  Feed him high calcium plants like kale.. and,..see.

After they hit about 18 months, the race cuts back drastically and they are fine usually with..what could be considered "basic care", assuming you don't have a breeding female making eggs.

Aside from that, I can't think of much else.  This is all basic shit, it's all over the internet and was well known before the internet even took root so a simple search should net you all info needed.

Good luck, I hope your dude makes it.  Bearded dragons are one of the coolest animals still walking this earth..-:peace:

Many pet 'source' suppliers sell the needed diets in a jar...  I don't know how you could really screw up the diet at this point unlike when they were brand new to the pet market and nobody knew what they really needed..

Give me one sec.. I'll find your dude his food...one sec.


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:

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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Bearded Dragons [Re: Amanita86]
    #23824082 - 11/11/16 08:34 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I used this with an additional d3 suppliment + vita lights and a high calcium diet, plus took him out into the sun for natural sunlight absorption.  Dust his food with the mix and ALWAYS have clean water because that shit will dehydrate them.


With that diet, growth as well as breeding (making eggshells) was never an issue.  Good luck, I hope he turns out alright. -:peace:


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:

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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Bearded Dragons [Re: Amanita86]
    #23824096 - 11/11/16 08:41 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

...just incase you dont know.

Take two cottage cheese containers... or similar... drill holes, pin holes in the bottom each.  Take crickets, or plant based food and drop it in the bottom of one container..  drop the other container on top.  So you have your crickets pinned...  drop the dust through the top container...and shake it... the powder will fall through the bottom of the 'top' container, dust your crickets etc, perfectly and then fall through the bottom of the "bottom" container... do it over a dish so you can recollect the powder that falls through...

Pull out top container, drop food in for beardie, and he'll take it from there.

If you have any questions pm me, because time is of the essence, and I may not click this link tomorrow....

Doing that + natural sunlight, makes breeders.  So, it should get your dude back on track..


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:

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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Bearded Dragons [Re: birdeatingspider]
    #23824110 - 11/11/16 08:51 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

In all honesty, as long as his eyes are open, and he can hold his head off the ground, he's not 'too bad off'.

With beardies, you watch their eyes for brightness, and it is in their nature to sit with their head off the ground when they are 'alert' (not sleeping or napping because then they throw their front legs back and lay their head down to sleep) ..

So as long as his eyes are open and clear, and his head points up at about a 45 degree angle when he is at attention, he's savable..

One of the most heartbreaking things Ive seen is a beardie too far gone to save... they look fucked up, like holocaust pictures fucked up.. hips show, eyes are lightless etc.  So, given the pics, your dude looks like he could be fine if you act quick.


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:

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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Bearded Dragons [Re: Amanita86]
    #23824135 - 11/11/16 09:00 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I didnt mean this to be a 4 page reply but, check this photo out..


See how his eyes are clear and alert?  See his head at a 45 degree angle up?.. good shit right there.  That's good.  The bathtub pic, his eye is focused just as much as your camera lense is..  gold.

My only worry is, one, he looks skinny(but not alarmingly so because I cant see his back hips at the base of his tail poking out yet), but thats fine just toss him some more grub, plant AND animal based, they need a wide variety of things.

And two, his front forearm.  See how it looks puffy?  Like popeye?... that is a sign he needs more calcium.  It will swell like that, and then get where his bones could potentially fracture.

So... bust your ass getting him his diet and be VERY GENTLE handling him.  He should be fine.  I've seen a lot worse rebound back and be just fine, so no matter what, dont give up on him.  He's just fine, all he needs is a diet change.  He'll be fine.


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:

Edited by Amanita86 (11/11/16 09:08 PM)

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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Bearded Dragons [Re: Amanita86]
    #23824143 - 11/11/16 09:05 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

If you look at their eye orientation, when their heads are at 45 degrees, their eyes are perfectly horizontal in relation.  That's how they 'chill'..  see what I mean?

Shoot a pic of him now and post it, incase those are old pics.  I see nothing overly alarming in the photos you posted other than a diet concern 'starting' to take place,.


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:

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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Bearded Dragons [Re: Amanita86]
    #23824162 - 11/11/16 09:19 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

That forearm thing might just be the angle too, because his arm looks fine in the fluff shot..

If these pictures arent new..like, today, take new shots and post/pm them to me if you will..


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:

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Invisiblebirdeatingspider
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Re: Bearded Dragons [Re: Amanita86]
    #23825067 - 11/12/16 07:12 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

The pic of him that you posted is from a few weeks ago when we first realized he is sick.  The problem with him is how picky he is about eating.  It's hard for him to get greens down and we've tried them all.  Collard greens, mustard greens, arugala he will eat a few bites every few days.  This pales in the plethora of greens we offer.

He has good days and bad days.. most of the time he is very alert and on days that he can't pick up his head he still makes eye contact and is clearly interactive visually.  But he doesn't move whatsoever, we have to hold him and hunt for him, putting him on his rock under the bulb so he can digest.  On days that he does move it's not far and he drags his back legs.  He is off balance when we pick him up.  mind you, this is the same little guy that used to jump from the bed to the desk..

Sometimes he shakes, on good days it's just an occasional jerk of his head.

What got us into this mess was his refusal to eat dusted insects.  He lost weight rapidly so we cut back on the calcium. 

He won't eat sometimes so we feed him wax worms to get something in him..  he stopped eating crickets and will only eat roaches.. more like rollie pollie pill bugs.  I have considered injecting them with minerals.

The vet actually told us to get calcium SANS d3..  the liquid supplement that we give him.  She said the fancy bulb that we got will provide that.  And yes before it got cold we would take him outside.  He is a free range beardie, or was.. goes anywhere we go.

The pics I sent are from all time periods.  This is a week ago:
Took this right now, just got done feeding with calcium everywhere.

It's not that I haven't scoured the internet, seen the unhelpful vet, I was moreso posting out of desperation.  To see if anyone has experienced this firsthand.  As far as his set up and care he gets only the best according to my knowledge.


--------------------

From all I may be, or have been before,
To mingle with the Universe, and feel
What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.

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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Bearded Dragons [Re: birdeatingspider]
    #23827457 - 11/12/16 10:01 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Ok, given the last photos, cancel what I said about him being thin (he must have been exhaling), and his forearms look fine.

He looks fine to me.  So, legs, and listlessness.

I remember reading in the mid 90's what they attributed that too(the legs)  Let me do some refresh snooping and I'll let you know what I find..  all in all though, he looks healthy to me.  :shrug:

Let me snoop around and I'll post what I find..


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:

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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Bearded Dragons [Re: birdeatingspider]
    #23827697 - 11/13/16 12:26 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

From a forum:

Most of the time, when bearded dragons have paralyzed legs, that means they are impacted. Mealworms are not something to feed a beardie; the chitin is nearly indigestable.
Is he using any calcium or vitamin supplements? Is he feeding the beardie any veggies? Also, is there a basking spot of 100 degrees F or higher? Temperature can also be a cause of paralysis in the legs.
For now, I would refrain from feeding him any more mealworms,not even when the blockage passes. I would also soak the beardie in warm water and massage the bottom of his belly a little bit to help him pass the impaction.

Edit: Here's a site that may help: beardeddragon.org



-------------

Impaction would explain the listlessness and overall down demeanor, because he probably feels like shit..


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:

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