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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Adoption Should Be a Public Service, Not a Privatized Good [Re: Crystal G]
    #23822224 - 11/11/16 07:55 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

404 said:

considering it takes about a million dollars or something to actually raise a kid, i don't think charging that much to deter idiots or people that don't have the means to care for a kid from adopting, i'd say it's OK. can't really stop them from bringing their own kid into the world i guess, but at least it's harder for them to fuck up a life already in this world




You really have no concept of money, do you?

Paying a $50,000 price tag up front is not nearly the same thing as spending $50,000 over 2 years in added expenses slowly over time to raise a child.

That million dollar figure is the cost to raise a child until the age of 18. And you're exaggerating the number, it's actually closer a quarter million, roughly $250,000 to raise a child until the age of 18. This amounts to just a little over $1,000 a month.

Plenty of people would be able to spare $1,000 a month to raise a child, who wouldn't be able to afford the price tag of an up-front $50,000 fee. Kids are already expensive, there's no reason to charge a $50,000 price tag on top of that. Just screening the family's income by asking for a copy of their taxes, that alone should be sufficient.

Consider the fact that the average household income for this nation is $50,000 and that's for a family of 3.

Somebody who is making $100,000 per year still would find it difficult to be able to afford a $50,000 price tag up front, just think about that.





you're focusing on only one area of adoption which is private adoption agencies
while interjecting things about the foster system, agencies find mothers seeking
to give up their kid quickly after birth, those are the ones that charge huge
fees, older kids are typically adopted from state funded group homes and foster
care systems in which those adoptive parents are typically paid until the kid
is 18 and even longer in some cases


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Adoption Should Be a Public Service, Not a Privatized Good [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23822249 - 11/11/16 08:09 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Sanguin3 said:
I agree with everything other than the $2000 max fee, it should be free. You're doing a public service you shouldn't have to pay for it.




In theory this should be absolutely true and I agree with it. I just suggested up to a $2,000 fee because I'm sure it costs some money to process legal paperwork and things like that, and also there should be some small amount of payment for administrative costs and things like that. I don't know how much all this should cost, but it definitely shouldn't be over a couple thousand dollars.

Quote:

You should have to prove you make a minimum amount though. Maybe that's part of the reason fees are so high? Otherwise people would be going out picking up kids just for the tax/welfare benefits.




They already do this. They don't just give kids to just anybody, you have to have a background check, you have to prove your income, you have to prove you're living in a home or an apartment, etc.


Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
you're focusing on only one area of adoption which is private adoption agencies
while interjecting things about the foster system, agencies find mothers seeking
to give up their kid quickly after birth, those are the ones that charge huge
fees, older kids are typically adopted from state funded group homes and foster
care systems in which those adoptive parents are typically paid until the kid
is 18 and even longer in some cases




Ah yeah, that's true. Though kids in the foster care system are usually taken away by force by CPS, meaning they are often going to be children from neglected or abused homes who may therefore have psychological problems or mental illness from being in these homes.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Adoption Should Be a Public Service, Not a Privatized Good [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23822253 - 11/11/16 08:11 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
the foster system in the US is nothing but a money scheme for the most part, foster
parents in the US make as much as $1500 per month per child with a base of around
$800 per month per child. a friend of mine decided to jump through the hoops to
become a foster parent, he was explaining to me about the classes he was attending
and some of the people in them and even the questions they asked. one lady there was
gearing up to foster 12 children at once, she owned a farm and the things she was
saying led him to believe that her intent was to develop a slave labor force through
the foster care system, she'd be earning money from the labor of these children in
addition to what the state was paying which would be around $10k per month




$1500 per month, this is just as bad as the old "welfare queen" myth.

A quick search reveals that foster care rates range from $657 to $820 depending on age and needs of the child. That basically amounts to less than $25 per day, or $1 per hour.

Seems like an inefficient way to make money if you ask me.

Not only that, but foster parents are required to prove that they can support a child even without the monthly subsidy.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Adoption Should Be a Public Service, Not a Privatized Good [Re: Crystal G]
    #23822299 - 11/11/16 08:42 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Ah yeah, that's true. Though kids in the foster care system are usually taken away by force by CPS, meaning they are often going to be children from neglected or abused homes who may therefore have psychological problems or mental illness from being in these homes.





that's not really the case. many states have a mandatory reporting law for
psychologists, teachers and doctors, the county I live in has 3x the number of
kids in foster care than any other county in the state, it's not because they're
abused, it's because DFCS has become overzealous, taking the attitude of 'better
safe than sorry'. kids with behavioral issues are learning to take advantage of
this while the schools teach them vague bullshit terms such as "if someone makes
you uncomfortable then you need to report that immediately" which results in DFCS
intervention, if the parent doesnt completely submit to the whims of the
investigating officer or decides to stand up for their children's and their own
rights, DFCS removes the children and places them in foster care with no
investigation, they then file a lawsuit, they dont arrest but they sue the parent
for custody even though they've taken the kids already and once they take the kids
the truth doesnt matter, in fact the truth didnt matter to begin with.

now once the kids are in the system and you're subpoenaed for a court hearing to
determine your fitness as a parent, you have no rights, there is no jury trial,
you do not hear any evidence against you, you arent even present in the courtroom
while testimony is given. from here you have 2 options, you can bow to the whims
of the court and they'll most likely allow you to have your kids back or you can
fight it and they'll keep your kids for a few years while they drag out a court
case against you. and no matter what you will jump through the hoops they set in
front of you to prove you're a worthy parent even if all the allegations were a
lie and none were even levied against you but against someone else and that's all
because you dared to question them


I can tell yo for a fact that you again have no clue what the fuck you're talking
about, the system is corrupt, I've seen it over the last 30 years when the cops
called DFCS to remove an abused and neglected child from a home of one of my
brother's neighbors, the ex girlfriend of one of my friends, the child was never
removed. I saw it while investigating the claims of a convicted child molester and
his entire family including the alleged victim, the DFCS agent in his case placed
5 children from the same family into 3 different foster homes and never once did a
welfare check. all 5 of them ended up being molested and one of them was murdered
in order to cover the crime


so yes, while there are many instances where children are removed from abusive
homes, it's far more frequent that there is no wrong doing in the home or that a
child simply got into some serious trouble and the state decides to step in


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Adoption Should Be a Public Service, Not a Privatized Good [Re: Crystal G]
    #23822311 - 11/11/16 08:50 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
the foster system in the US is nothing but a money scheme for the most part, foster
parents in the US make as much as $1500 per month per child with a base of around
$800 per month per child. a friend of mine decided to jump through the hoops to
become a foster parent, he was explaining to me about the classes he was attending
and some of the people in them and even the questions they asked. one lady there was
gearing up to foster 12 children at once, she owned a farm and the things she was
saying led him to believe that her intent was to develop a slave labor force through
the foster care system, she'd be earning money from the labor of these children in
addition to what the state was paying which would be around $10k per month




$1500 per month, this is just as bad as the old "welfare queen" myth.

A quick search reveals that foster care rates range from $657 to $820 depending on age and needs of the child. That basically amounts to less than $25 per day, or $1 per hour. 





it's no myth nor is the welfare queen shit a myth.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 8 months, 6 days
Re: Adoption Should Be a Public Service, Not a Privatized Good [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23822391 - 11/11/16 09:23 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
that's not really the case. many states have a mandatory reporting law for
psychologists, teachers and doctors, the county I live in has 3x the number of
kids in foster care than any other county in the state, it's not because they're
abused, it's because DFCS has become overzealous, taking the attitude of 'better
safe than sorry'. kids with behavioral issues are learning to take advantage of
this while the schools teach them vague bullshit terms such as "if someone makes
you uncomfortable then you need to report that immediately" which results in DFCS
intervention, if the parent doesnt completely submit to the whims of the
investigating officer or decides to stand up for their children's and their own
rights, DFCS removes the children and places them in foster care with no
investigation, they then file a lawsuit, they dont arrest but they sue the parent
for custody even though they've taken the kids already and once they take the kids
the truth doesnt matter, in fact the truth didnt matter to begin with.

now once the kids are in the system and you're subpoenaed for a court hearing to
determine your fitness as a parent, you have no rights, there is no jury trial,
you do not hear any evidence against you, you arent even present in the courtroom
while testimony is given. from here you have 2 options, you can bow to the whims
of the court and they'll most likely allow you to have your kids back or you can
fight it and they'll keep your kids for a few years while they drag out a court
case against you. and no matter what you will jump through the hoops they set in
front of you to prove you're a worthy parent even if all the allegations were a
lie and none were even levied against you but against someone else and that's all
because you dared to question them




That's interesting that you think the state is over-eager to remove children, I always thought that it was quite difficult to have children removed from the home. I mean lots of people report abuse or child molestation, and usually it seems all that happens is CPS comes to pay a visit and if the home checks out okay, nothing happens. Seems something really drastic has to happen, like visible injuries on a child or a 911 call or evidence of drug use, for a child to be completely removed from the home.

This frequently happens in a lot of bitter custody cases even, people will accuse their spouse or whatever of hitting or touching the child, but many times these claims aren't even investigated and the accused parent is still given partial custody anyway.


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Invisible404
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Posts: 14,539
Re: Adoption Should Be a Public Service, Not a Privatized Good [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23822442 - 11/11/16 09:44 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)


Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

404 said:

considering it takes about a million dollars or something to actually raise a kid, i don't think charging that much to deter idiots or people that don't have the means to care for a kid from adopting, i'd say it's OK. can't really stop them from bringing their own kid into the world i guess, but at least it's harder for them to fuck up a life already in this world




You really have no concept of money, do you?

Paying a $50,000 price tag up front is not nearly the same thing as spending $50,000 over 2 years in added expenses slowly over time to raise a child.

That million dollar figure is the cost to raise a child until the age of 18. And you're exaggerating the number, it's actually closer a quarter million, roughly $250,000 to raise a child until the age of 18. This amounts to just a little over $1,000 a month.

Plenty of people would be able to spare $1,000 a month to raise a child, who wouldn't be able to afford the price tag of an up-front $50,000 fee. Kids are already expensive, there's no reason to charge a $50,000 price tag on top of that. Just screening the family's income by asking for a copy of their taxes, that alone should be sufficient.

Consider the fact that the average household income for this nation is $50,000 and that's for a family of 3.

Somebody who is making $100,000 per year still would find it difficult to be able to afford a $50,000 price tag up front, just think about that.





you're focusing on only one area of adoption which is private adoption agencies
while interjecting things about the foster system, agencies find mothers seeking
to give up their kid quickly after birth, those are the ones that charge huge
fees, older kids are typically adopted from state funded group homes and foster
care systems in which those adoptive parents are typically paid until the kid
is 18 and even longer in some cases





Considering Crystal G is an admitted drug raper and junkie, I don't think she really should be worrying about adopting kids at any point in her life anyway.


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: Adoption Should Be a Public Service, Not a Privatized Good [Re: 404] * 1
    #23822501 - 11/11/16 10:02 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

404 said:
Considering Crystal G is an admitted drug raper and junkie, I don't think she really should be worrying about adopting kids at any point in her life anyway.



Whatever CG has admitted here in the past, that's a really shitty and lazy argument to fall back on.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Invisible404
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Re: Adoption Should Be a Public Service, Not a Privatized Good [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23822517 - 11/11/16 10:07 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah? I disagree completely, she really shouldn't be worrying about this at all with that considered.

Anyway, nothing she really said changed what i think about the matter. whethere it's 250k or 1 mil, it's still a lot of money to raise a kid properly. i'm pretty sure all of this is moot anyway on both sides considering that there are probably more restrictions in the adoption process anyway other than having to shell out to do so. sure, 50k is a bit high i can agree there, but making it 2k? nah.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Adoption Should Be a Public Service, Not a Privatized Good [Re: Crystal G]
    #23822531 - 11/11/16 10:12 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
That's interesting that you think the state is over-eager to remove children, I always thought that it was quite difficult to have children removed from the home.




all it takes is for a state employee to say "I fell the child is in danger", the
qualifications for removing a child are minimal and there are no parental rights in
juvenile court. the state holds all the power


Quote:

This frequently happens in a lot of bitter custody cases even, people will accuse their spouse or whatever of hitting or touching the child, but many times these claims aren't even investigated and the accused parent is still given partial custody anyway.




in custody cases it's common for one to accuse the other of abuse, this isnt
juvenile court which is where these DFCS cases are heard, judges in divorce cases
arent investigators and frequently dismiss these allegations unless there is
something that corroborates it such as an open case of abuse


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Adoption Should Be a Public Service, Not a Privatized Good [Re: 404] * 4
    #23822533 - 11/11/16 10:13 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

What do my sex and drug use have anything to do in a thread where people are talking about the philosophical concept of adoption :facepalm:

Is this a thread about ME adopting somebody? No. So shut the fuck up.

Jesus people always bring up the dumbest, most irrelevant shit.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Adoption Should Be a Public Service, Not a Privatized Good [Re: 404]
    #23822534 - 11/11/16 10:13 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

404 said:

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

404 said:

considering it takes about a million dollars or something to actually raise a kid, i don't think charging that much to deter idiots or people that don't have the means to care for a kid from adopting, i'd say it's OK. can't really stop them from bringing their own kid into the world i guess, but at least it's harder for them to fuck up a life already in this world




You really have no concept of money, do you?

Paying a $50,000 price tag up front is not nearly the same thing as spending $50,000 over 2 years in added expenses slowly over time to raise a child.

That million dollar figure is the cost to raise a child until the age of 18. And you're exaggerating the number, it's actually closer a quarter million, roughly $250,000 to raise a child until the age of 18. This amounts to just a little over $1,000 a month.

Plenty of people would be able to spare $1,000 a month to raise a child, who wouldn't be able to afford the price tag of an up-front $50,000 fee. Kids are already expensive, there's no reason to charge a $50,000 price tag on top of that. Just screening the family's income by asking for a copy of their taxes, that alone should be sufficient.

Consider the fact that the average household income for this nation is $50,000 and that's for a family of 3.

Somebody who is making $100,000 per year still would find it difficult to be able to afford a $50,000 price tag up front, just think about that.





you're focusing on only one area of adoption which is private adoption agencies
while interjecting things about the foster system, agencies find mothers seeking
to give up their kid quickly after birth, those are the ones that charge huge
fees, older kids are typically adopted from state funded group homes and foster
care systems in which those adoptive parents are typically paid until the kid
is 18 and even longer in some cases





Considering Crystal G is an admitted drug raper and junkie, I don't think she really should be worrying about adopting kids at any point in her life anyway.





she's simply expressing her thoughts on the subject


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Invisible404
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Re: Adoption Should Be a Public Service, Not a Privatized Good [Re: Crystal G]
    #23822544 - 11/11/16 10:17 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
What do my sex and drug use have anything to do in a thread where people are talking about the philosophical concept of adoption :facepalm:

Is this a thread about ME adopting somebody? No. So shut the fuck up.

Jesus people always bring up the dumbest, most irrelevant shit.




melt harder :haha:


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: Adoption Should Be a Public Service, Not a Privatized Good [Re: 404] * 2
    #23822551 - 11/11/16 10:19 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

404 said:
Yeah? I disagree completely, she really shouldn't be worrying about this at all with that considered.



That's a pretty narrow minded view. I've done some awfully shitty things in the past, things I will admit, but I'm certainly ashamed to admit them. Does any of that horrible shit I did in my teens/20's have any effect on the honest, honourable, kind, loving, compassionate human being I strive to be now in my 30's?

I've done a 180 on my old ways, perhaps CG has too, and yet you fall back onto judging her, like your shit dont stink neither.

Wise up man. People change. If you haven't by now, and refuse to recognise that others do too, then you got issues.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: Adoption Should Be a Public Service, Not a Privatized Good [Re: 404] * 3
    #23822555 - 11/11/16 10:20 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

404 said:
melt harder :haha:



Oh god. I suddenly realised you're just another Sheekle in disguise. Forget my last statement, it'll surely be lost on you if that is the way you retort.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Invisible404
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Re: Adoption Should Be a Public Service, Not a Privatized Good [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23822566 - 11/11/16 10:24 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:

404 said:
Yeah? I disagree completely, she really shouldn't be worrying about this at all with that considered.



That's a pretty narrow minded view. I've done some awfully shitty things in the past, things I will admit, but I'm certainly ashamed to admit them. Does any of that horrible shit I did in my teens/20's have any effect on the honest, honourable, kind, loving, compassionate human being I strive to be now in my 30's?

I've done a 180 on my old ways, perhaps CG has too, and yet you fall back onto judging her, like your shit dont stink neither.

Wise up man. People change. If you haven't by now, and refuse to recognise that others do too, then you got issues.




if this had been another poster like say, seashrooms, you'd be singing a different tune.


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Invisible404
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Re: Adoption Should Be a Public Service, Not a Privatized Good [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23822567 - 11/11/16 10:25 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:

404 said:
melt harder :haha:



Oh god. I suddenly realised you're just another Sheekle in disguise. Forget my last statement, it'll surely be lost on you if that is the way you retort.




:laugh2:


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Adoption Should Be a Public Service, Not a Privatized Good [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 1
    #23822569 - 11/11/16 10:25 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks jokeshop, I appreciate it. It's obvious he's deliberately provoking and trolling, his last few comments pretty much solidified it. This is pretty much the exact response he wants.


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Invisible404
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Re: Adoption Should Be a Public Service, Not a Privatized Good [Re: Crystal G]
    #23822573 - 11/11/16 10:28 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Don't provoke me then


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: Adoption Should Be a Public Service, Not a Privatized Good [Re: Crystal G] * 1
    #23822578 - 11/11/16 10:30 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

404 said:
if this had been another poster like say, seashrooms, you'd be singing a different tune.



Your assumption of what goes through my mind just makes you look like a fucking moron. You have no idea what happens in mine, nor anyone elses head. Anyone can make good on their mistakes if they truly decide to, peado, serial killer, dictator, etc. Even you and your judgemental bullshit can be rescinded with effort and dedication.


Quote:

Crystal G said:
Thanks jokeshop, I appreciate it.



No sweat CG. This is the second time I've defended a impartial opinion towards a judgemntal fucker in as many days. I won't ever stop if I see it either. I despise injustice, and comments like those made above fucking reek of it.

And now he accuses you of provoking him when he waded into your thread, which was cruising until he stepped in. Yeah 404, that makes perfect sense.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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