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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Clinton Won The Popular Vote By 202,340 Votes [Re: koods] * 1
    #23818660 - 11/10/16 08:04 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

It's not rigged. It operates as designed. I don't believe for a moment you'd be whining about how unfair it is should the results have gone your way.

It's a shame you slept through civics in school.

And grow up a bit. It didn't work out in my favor. I didn't vote for either of those two shitbags.


Quote:

Its not a fluke that it's been the democrats both times.




Except it is a fluke as it happens so rarely. If it was designed to work that way then the founders clearly did a shitty job of it.


Quote:

The effect of giving small states some of the electoral votes if the large states is you give more influence to rural conservatives and take it from liberals.




No. The effect of the electoral college is to even the power between the union of states.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Clinton Won The Popular Vote By 202,340 Votes [Re: PatrickKn] * 1
    #23818670 - 11/10/16 08:07 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PatrickKn said:
Anger over him winning by the electoral college is misplaced, precisely because that's one of the things he talked about in the past and election reform was one of his big issues (even if he might have stretched some claims).

I think the real test of his authenticity would be to see if he supported a change in the rules regarding the electoral college despite winning because of it. That would speak loads of his character which is in question at times for good reason. If the issue were to come up and he rejected it because of his victory through the very system he railed against, I would certainly think even less of him for it. But if he supported it, and better yet convinced the party he just commandeered to go along with it - then he'd be doing more good than most can give him credit for.

But the rules were in place to start with. We knew the rules going in. Clinton knew the rules going in. Trump simply worked those rural areas harder and more effectively. I can't fault the guy for winning through the electoral college. If the United States wants to change that, it would take the issue more seriously rather than waiting until next election year to complain about it.




I've been talking about it for years. This summer I posted a lot because it is relevant to third parties as well. I have been talking about it a lot this week. I'm not saying trump didn't win in our system, but the system is flawed. People should be outraged that the will of the people has been overturned by an arcane redistribution of vote influence mandated by the constitution. And it's the second time in sixteen years this has happened.

I don't think it matters what the rationale for the system is, if the candidate who gets the most votes doesn't win, we are not a serious democracy. And it's happened twice. So, trump supporters even though you are the beneficiary of the system, can we all not agree that it is fundamentally unfair and undemocratic?


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Clinton Won The Popular Vote By 202,340 Votes [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #23818683 - 11/10/16 08:13 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
It's not rigged. It operates as designed. I don't believe for a moment you'd be whining about how unfair it is should the results have gone your way.

It's a shame you slept through civics in school.

And grow up a bit. It didn't work out in my favor. I didn't vote for either of those two shitbags.


Quote:

Its not a fluke that it's been the democrats both times.




Except it is a fluke as it happens so rarely. If it was designed to work that way then the founders clearly did a shitty job of it.


Quote:

The effect of giving small states some of the electoral votes if the large states is you give more influence to rural conservatives and take it from liberals.




No. The effect of the electoral college is to even the power between the union of states.




The effect of the electoral college is that the second place finisher got the prize in 2 of the past 5 elections. Now, maybe you are right about the power balance between states, but denying victory to the most popular candidate is an unacceptable price for a questionable goal.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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InvisibleSanguin3
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Re: Clinton Won The Popular Vote By 202,340 Votes *DELETED* [Re: koods] * 1
    #23818688 - 11/10/16 08:15 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Post deleted by Sanguin3

Reason for deletion: .

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OfflinePatlal
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Re: Clinton Won The Popular Vote By 202,340 Votes [Re: koods]
    #23818693 - 11/10/16 08:17 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

You guys would be surprised to know how many countries live under a system where the President/Prime Minister won despite not recieving the majority of the vote.

The reason why it's like that is because the country would entirely be ran by the most populous states and every small region like Wyoming and Montana would have 0 voice. Even if every citizen if Wyoming and Montana including children and babies all unanimously voted Republican, Orange County California alone could out vote them Democrat. They wouldn't have a chance in the world to have a voice.

Which is also why there are 2 senators per State no matter how big the state is.


--------------------

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Clinton Won The Popular Vote By 202,340 Votes [Re: Patlal] * 1
    #23818728 - 11/10/16 08:35 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
You guys would be surprised to know how many countries live under a system where the President/Prime Minister won despite not recieving the majority of the vote.

The reason why it's like that is because the country would entirely be ran by the most populous states and every small region like Wyoming and Montana would have 0 voice. Even if every citizen if Wyoming and Montana including children and babies all unanimously voted Republican, Orange County California alone could out vote them Democrat. They wouldn't have a chance in the world to have a voice.

Which is also why there are 2 senators per State no matter how big the state is.




The 500,000 people of Orange County should have the same voice as the 500,000 people of Wyoming. Why do we have a system where their voice is worth four times as much? You can't just say the small states need an extra voice as if the premise proves your point. Justify your reasoning, considering these facts: the president represents the people of the entire country. The senate represents the people of an individual state. I'm fine with every state having an equal voice in the senate. I'm not fine with the people of some states having a larger voice in the selection of a president. It serves absolutely no purpose and leaves us the the possibility that a president could be elected with only 25% of the popular vote.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Clinton Won The Popular Vote By 202,340 Votes [Re: Sanguin3] * 1
    #23818773 - 11/10/16 08:52 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Sanguin3 said:
There you go with this "will of the people" nonsense again. The vote difference was negligible. Stop acting like she got a huge majority of votes.

We're also not a democracy so you can stop using those lines. Until you can understand that simple fact you'll continue to be misguided in your opinions on this.




We are a representative democracy. We elect representatives in a democratic process where the person who receives the most votes wins. This is how we elect every single politician in the country except the president. The electoral collage was designed to offset the artificial undercounting of state population due to the 3/5 rule. Well, we don't have slaves anymore so why are we electing the president the way we do everyone else. The electoral college gives republicans an advantage. Do you think that is fair? To have a systemic advantage built into the vote?


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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OfflinePatlal
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Re: Clinton Won The Popular Vote By 202,340 Votes [Re: koods]
    #23818788 - 11/10/16 08:56 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
You guys would be surprised to know how many countries live under a system where the President/Prime Minister won despite not recieving the majority of the vote.

The reason why it's like that is because the country would entirely be ran by the most populous states and every small region like Wyoming and Montana would have 0 voice. Even if every citizen if Wyoming and Montana including children and babies all unanimously voted Republican, Orange County California alone could out vote them Democrat. They wouldn't have a chance in the world to have a voice.

Which is also why there are 2 senators per State no matter how big the state is.




The 500,000 people of Orange County should have the same voice as the 500,000 people of Wyoming. Why do we have a system where their voice is worth four times as much? You can't just say the small states need an extra voice as if the premise proves your point. Justify your reasoning, considering these facts: the president represents the people of the entire country. The senate represents the people of an individual state. I'm fine with every state having an equal voice in the senate. I'm not fine with the people of some states having a larger voice in the selection of a president. It serves absolutely no purpose and leaves us the the possibility that a president could be elected with only 25% of the popular vote.




I know why you feel that way. I also felt that way for a long time. Direct Democracy should be the best right? 1 for 1 no matter the geography.

Unfortunately, the ancient Greeks have tried this form of Democracy 3000 years ago and it does not work. What happened is that their political leaders simply went in the most populous areas and completely disregarded the rural areas.

You might say this isn't too far back to even be considered. But, the exact same thing has happened during this entire election cycle. Not one candidate even put a foot in Wyoming or Montana. Hawaii was completely left out. Nobody went to Alaska. Every campaign focused entirely on battleground counties. There's has been no contact between the candidates and the people from counties that were "sure things". The focus was entirely in place that were 50/50. Of course you might say it's impossible to visit everyone, which is true, but there's a clear pattern of people who get left out every time.

What happens in a direct Democracy is that in time, only the people in the 50/50 areas get the bulk of the promises and the rest is left out to dry. Which is why there are practically 0 countries in the world that have direct democracies anymore.


--------------------

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Hillary Clinton Won The Popular Vote By 202,340 Votes [Re: endogenous]
    #23818797 - 11/10/16 08:59 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

endogenous said:
Trump 48% 59,611,678

Hillary Clinton Democratic Party 47% 59,814,018




something us surely wrong with the math or a lower number is a higher percentage


and for your information, the popular vote has never elected a president

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Clinton Won The Popular Vote By 202,340 Votes [Re: Sanguin3] * 1
    #23818811 - 11/10/16 09:05 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Sanguin3 said:
There you go with this "will of the people" nonsense again. The vote difference was negligible. Stop acting like she got a huge majority of votes.s.




Does it matter how big the difference? The difference is 200,000 - about the number of people who vote in Alaska. Thanks to the electoral college a group of voters equivalent to the entire state of Alaska has been disenfranchised.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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OfflineWebster10
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Re: Clinton Won The Popular Vote By 202,340 Votes [Re: koods] * 1
    #23818821 - 11/10/16 09:07 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Sanguin3 said:
There you go with this "will of the people" nonsense again. The vote difference was negligible. Stop acting like she got a huge majority of votes.s.




Does it matter how big the difference? The difference is 200,000 - about the number of people who vote in Alaska. Thanks to the electoral college a group of voters equivalent to the entire state of Alaska has been disenfranchised.



You're no longer getting paid to shill and yet you're doing it anyways because you're butthurt. And let's be honest, you love to deceive. You love obfuscating and tricking people into believing something that's false. It seems to get you off for some reason. Disgusting.


--------------------
:leaf: :usa:

Edited by Webster10 (11/10/16 09:09 AM)

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Clinton Won The Popular Vote By 202,340 Votes [Re: koods]
    #23818825 - 11/10/16 09:08 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
He won under our system. I don't think you can legitimately say a system where the second place finisher wins is fair. Right, Donald?





I know, you're still in teh butthertz because the media catfished you, dont
worry, President Trump represents all americans, not just gun banning, gay
hating democrats like hillary represents

say it with me koods, President Trump

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Clinton Won The Popular Vote By 202,340 Votes [Re: koods]
    #23818833 - 11/10/16 09:10 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Sanguin3 said:
There you go with this "will of the people" nonsense again. The vote difference was negligible. Stop acting like she got a huge majority of votes.s.




Does it matter how big the difference? The difference is 200,000 - about the number of people who vote in Alaska. Thanks to the electoral college a group of voters equivalent to the entire state of Alaska has been disenfranchised.





not all the votes are in from michigan and arizona. once those votes are in, trump
may well have 3 or 4 votes more than hillary, dont cry though, america got catfished
with an obama presidency twice. we were promised a great president but instead we
got dogshit barry

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Clinton Won The Popular Vote By 202,340 Votes [Re: Patlal]
    #23818843 - 11/10/16 09:13 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
You guys would be surprised to know how many countries live under a system where the President/Prime Minister won despite not recieving the majority of the vote.

The reason why it's like that is because the country would entirely be ran by the most populous states and every small region like Wyoming and Montana would have 0 voice. Even if every citizen if Wyoming and Montana including children and babies all unanimously voted Republican, Orange County California alone could out vote them Democrat. They wouldn't have a chance in the world to have a voice.

Which is also why there are 2 senators per State no matter how big the state is.




The 500,000 people of Orange County should have the same voice as the 500,000 people of Wyoming. Why do we have a system where their voice is worth four times as much? You can't just say the small states need an extra voice as if the premise proves your point. Justify your reasoning, considering these facts: the president represents the people of the entire country. The senate represents the people of an individual state. I'm fine with every state having an equal voice in the senate. I'm not fine with the people of some states having a larger voice in the selection of a president. It serves absolutely no purpose and leaves us the the possibility that a president could be elected with only 25% of the popular vote.




I know why you feel that way. I also felt that way for a long time. Direct Democracy should be the best right? 1 for 1 no matter the geography.

Unfortunately, the ancient Greeks have tried this form of Democracy 3000 years ago and it does not work. What happened is that their political leaders simply went in the most populous areas and completely disregarded the rural areas.

You might say this isn't too far back to even be considered. But, the exact same thing has happened during this entire election cycle. Not one candidate even put a foot in Wyoming or Montana. Hawaii was completely left out. Nobody went to Alaska. Every campaign focused entirely on battleground counties. There's has been no contact between the candidates and the people from counties that were "sure things". The focus was entirely in place that were 50/50. Of course you might say it's impossible to visit everyone, which is true, but there's a clear pattern of people who get left out every time.

What happens in a direct Democracy is that in time, only the people in the 50/50 areas get the bulk of the promises and the rest is left out to dry. Which is why there are practically 0 countries in the world that have direct democracies anymore.




Who is advocating direct democracy? That comes out of left field.

The situation you are describing about states being ignored is due to the electoral college. The concept if battleground stage is a function of the EC. In a popular vote, the candidate can go anywhere... Inthink you need a refresher.



--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Clinton Won The Popular Vote By 202,340 Votes [Re: Webster10]
    #23818855 - 11/10/16 09:16 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Webster10 said:
Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Sanguin3 said:
There you go with this "will of the people" nonsense again. The vote difference was negligible. Stop acting like she got a huge majority of votes.s.




Does it matter how big the difference? The difference is 200,000 - about the number of people who vote in Alaska. Thanks to the electoral college a group of voters equivalent to the entire state of Alaska has been disenfranchised.



You're no longer getting paid to shill and yet you're doing it anyways because you're butthurt. And let's be honest, you love to deceive. You love obfuscating and tricking people into believing something that's false. It seems to get you off for some reason. Disgusting.




Well, I see where you stand on the fairness of elections. you don't care about the systemic partisan bias of the electoral college system because it advantages your side.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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OfflineWebster10
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Re: Clinton Won The Popular Vote By 202,340 Votes [Re: koods]
    #23818873 - 11/10/16 09:19 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

You're such a sore loser. Did you hear? Hillary is blaming COMEY and OBAMA for why she lost. She said Obama could've stopped Comey earlier. So corrupt, so pathetic. She's literally blaming her loss on OBAMA NOT BEING MORE CORRUPT. Yeah, she totally didn't lose cause she's an abhorrent, unlikeabke, corrupt cunt or anything.


--------------------
:leaf: :usa:

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OfflineWebster10
Up like Trump
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Registered: 12/03/13
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Re: Clinton Won The Popular Vote By 202,340 Votes [Re: koods]
    #23818875 - 11/10/16 09:20 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Webster10 said:
Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Sanguin3 said:
There you go with this "will of the people" nonsense again. The vote difference was negligible. Stop acting like she got a huge majority of votes.s.




Does it matter how big the difference? The difference is 200,000 - about the number of people who vote in Alaska. Thanks to the electoral college a group of voters equivalent to the entire state of Alaska has been disenfranchised.



You're no longer getting paid to shill and yet you're doing it anyways because you're butthurt. And let's be honest, you love to deceive. You love obfuscating and tricking people into believing something that's false. It seems to get you off for some reason. Disgusting.




Well, I see where you stand on the fairness of elections. you don't care about the systemic partisan bias of the electoral college system because it advantages your side.



Notice how I said literally nothing about the electoral college in that post.


--------------------
:leaf: :usa:

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OfflinePatlal
You ask too many questions
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Re: Clinton Won The Popular Vote By 202,340 Votes [Re: koods]
    #23818878 - 11/10/16 09:21 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
You guys would be surprised to know how many countries live under a system where the President/Prime Minister won despite not recieving the majority of the vote.

The reason why it's like that is because the country would entirely be ran by the most populous states and every small region like Wyoming and Montana would have 0 voice. Even if every citizen if Wyoming and Montana including children and babies all unanimously voted Republican, Orange County California alone could out vote them Democrat. They wouldn't have a chance in the world to have a voice.

Which is also why there are 2 senators per State no matter how big the state is.




The 500,000 people of Orange County should have the same voice as the 500,000 people of Wyoming. Why do we have a system where their voice is worth four times as much? You can't just say the small states need an extra voice as if the premise proves your point. Justify your reasoning, considering these facts: the president represents the people of the entire country. The senate represents the people of an individual state. I'm fine with every state having an equal voice in the senate. I'm not fine with the people of some states having a larger voice in the selection of a president. It serves absolutely no purpose and leaves us the the possibility that a president could be elected with only 25% of the popular vote.




I know why you feel that way. I also felt that way for a long time. Direct Democracy should be the best right? 1 for 1 no matter the geography.

Unfortunately, the ancient Greeks have tried this form of Democracy 3000 years ago and it does not work. What happened is that their political leaders simply went in the most populous areas and completely disregarded the rural areas.

You might say this isn't too far back to even be considered. But, the exact same thing has happened during this entire election cycle. Not one candidate even put a foot in Wyoming or Montana. Hawaii was completely left out. Nobody went to Alaska. Every campaign focused entirely on battleground counties. There's has been no contact between the candidates and the people from counties that were "sure things". The focus was entirely in place that were 50/50. Of course you might say it's impossible to visit everyone, which is true, but there's a clear pattern of people who get left out every time.

What happens in a direct Democracy is that in time, only the people in the 50/50 areas get the bulk of the promises and the rest is left out to dry. Which is why there are practically 0 countries in the world that have direct democracies anymore.




Who is advocating direct democracy? That comes out of left field.

The situation you are describing about states being ignored is due to the electoral college. The concept if battleground stage is a function of the EC. In a popular vote, the candidate can go anywhere... Inthink you need a refresher.






Yes that is problematic. I was talking direct democracy because it creates the exact same problem.

Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the ones that were tried before.

As the saying goes, we are always stuck choosing the lesser evil.


--------------------

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Clinton Won The Popular Vote By 202,340 Votes [Re: Webster10]
    #23818881 - 11/10/16 09:21 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Webster10 said:
You're such a sore loser. Did you hear? Hillary is blaming COMEY and OBAMA for why she lost. She said Obama could've stopped Comey earlier. So corrupt, so pathetic. She's literally blaming her loss on OBAMA NOT BEING MORE CORRUPT. Yeah, she totally didn't lose cause she's an abhorrent, unlikeabke, corrupt cunt or anything.





how could obama possibly be more corrupt. he didnt jail hillary for her crimes
and in fact pulled her ass from the fire multiple times

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OfflineManianFHS
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Re: Clinton Won The Popular Vote By 202,340 Votes [Re: Webster10]
    #23818885 - 11/10/16 09:22 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Webster10 said:
You're such a sore loser. Did you hear? Hillary is blaming COMEY and OBAMA for why she lost. She said Obama could've stopped Comey earlier. So corrupt, so pathetic. She's literally blaming her loss on OBAMA NOT BEING MORE CORRUPT. Yeah, she totally didn't lose cause she's an abhorrent, unlikeabke, corrupt cunt or anything.





I can't find the article stating this do you have a link or sonethibg


--------------------
notapillow said: "you are going about this endeavor all wrong. clear your mind of useless fear and concern. buy the ticket, take the ride, and all that.... "

ChrisWho said: "It's all about the journey, not the destination."

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