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OfflineMelchizedech
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The perfect Grain Jar Lid
    #23818374 - 11/10/16 05:27 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Let's figure out the perfect jar lid for grain teks.

Plastic, of course.
The metal ones rust, are 2 pieces, their noise is annoying when they bang upon each other. And they are hard to wash.

So then, two holes, one taped with tyvek for air exchange, and one with high temp silicone for inoculation?


Edited by Melchizedech (11/10/16 05:37 AM)


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InvisibleMoabfighter
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Re: The perfect Grain Jar Lid [Re: Melchizedech]
    #23818392 - 11/10/16 05:39 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I've always heard skip the SHIP.

Also seen lately some people using JUST micropore for the Gas Exchange


--------------------
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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: The perfect Grain Jar Lid [Re: Moabfighter]
    #23818398 - 11/10/16 05:44 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The metal ones rust, are 2 pieces, their noise is annoying when they bang upon each other. And they are hard to wash.




ok rusting Ill give you, but what noise are u talking about (because whatever noise it is, is NOT going to be as loud as glass jars banging together) and who washes their lids and bands?  a moist paper towel if it was contaminated is all u need.  if it was clean, i just toss the lid back into the bucket of lids.

i think the best lids are simple.  metal or plastic is preference, but a single hole for GE is as simple as it gets.

edit: wait no... a plastic lid without a hole is simpler.  but I aint never done did that way yet


--------------------
A few thoughts on cultivation
MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts


Edited by blindingleaf (11/10/16 05:45 AM)


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OfflineMelchizedech
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Re: The perfect Grain Jar Lid [Re: Moabfighter]
    #23818415 - 11/10/16 05:57 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Moabfighter said:
I've always heard skip the SHIP.

Also seen lately some people using JUST micropore for the Gas Exchange




What does skip the SHIP mean?
And micropore = tyvek sheet?


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OfflineMelchizedech
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Re: The perfect Grain Jar Lid [Re: blindingleaf]
    #23818419 - 11/10/16 05:59 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

blindingleaf said:
Quote:

The metal ones rust, are 2 pieces, their noise is annoying when they bang upon each other. And they are hard to wash.




ok rusting Ill give you, but what noise are u talking about (because whatever noise it is, is NOT going to be as loud as glass jars banging together) and who washes their lids and bands?  a moist paper towel if it was contaminated is all u need.  if it was clean, i just toss the lid back into the bucket of lids.

i think the best lids are simple.  metal or plastic is preference, but a single hole for GE is as simple as it gets.

edit: wait no... a plastic lid without a hole is simpler.  but I aint never done did that way yet




The noise was kind of a joke.

I have plastic lid with no holes. And I was concerned, for GE.

There is condensation, and the plug spawn seem to be receding, not growing.
Only been 24h, so I'm not stressed yet.


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Offlinetump
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Re: The perfect Grain Jar Lid [Re: Melchizedech]
    #23818444 - 11/10/16 06:16 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Best is hard to described. Its all about how you are kocking up jar. For the longest time i used a ship and silicone with tyvek but dam you have to wait a hole day for it to cure. Its still a good lid design but i have filter failure about 20% on second use after pc cycles i switched to polfil and ships for two months with good results. On the other hand if your not injecting lc, li, spores into your jar then screw ships. Metal lids upside down with one polyfil hole works in a hurry for any pouring or g2g. Im sure the next person will say a silcone glued on sfd is best lid which is true with unlimited resources and time on your hands


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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: The perfect Grain Jar Lid [Re: Melchizedech]
    #23818445 - 11/10/16 06:16 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

lack of or absence of GE will usually cause stalling.  I've never seen myc recede really unless its being over come by bacteria but at that point, it should have been tossed.

plug spawn has no nutrients to draw from so it can be a bit slow depending on how u inoculated it and how moist/large the actual plugs are.

ewith no hole plastic lids u gotta turn it a quarter turn or something unless ur shaking it.  lookup pastywhyte he has a writeup


--------------------
A few thoughts on cultivation
MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts


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Re: The perfect Grain Jar Lid [Re: blindingleaf]
    #23818456 - 11/10/16 06:23 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I've seen this small thing mentioned on occasion.

Turn the metal lids upside down if I'm going to use the jar for G2G? Just the masters, or all of them?


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OfflinePNW_Shroomer
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Re: The perfect Grain Jar Lid [Re: Moabfighter]
    #23818469 - 11/10/16 06:30 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I recommend using plastic lids, or metal lids. I don't think it matters. The metal lids, though, tend to get rusty, which is just annoying more than anything else. I fit with micropore tape for gas exchange, and sealed with high a temperature gasket sealer, for a makeshift self-healing injection point. I think poly filter discs work well, too, but micropore tape is just better to me. Washing the lids, and such, I just throw them in the dishwasher with the jars. No big deal.


Edited by PNW_Shroomer (11/10/16 06:32 AM)


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OfflineMelchizedech
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Re: The perfect Grain Jar Lid [Re: Moabfighter]
    #23818473 - 11/10/16 06:31 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks guys.

I stick to G2G.

Does Tyvek actually allow GE?


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OfflineMelchizedech
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Re: The perfect Grain Jar Lid [Re: Melchizedech]
    #23818479 - 11/10/16 06:33 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Hum.

So,

1. Plastic Lid.
2- Drill central hole.
3- Micropore tape or tyvek patch?


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OfflinePNW_Shroomer
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Re: The perfect Grain Jar Lid [Re: Melchizedech]
    #23818488 - 11/10/16 06:36 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Yes, it does. With that in mind, just stick to one whole for gas exchange on the lid, cover with either micropore tape, or put some tyvek below the lid, and it is perfect. Good luck!


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OfflinePNW_Shroomer
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Re: The perfect Grain Jar Lid [Re: PNW_Shroomer]
    #23818494 - 11/10/16 06:38 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

You should try grain-to-grain transfer through the hole in the top of the lid. Immediately after you drop in the grains, stick some micropore tape over the hole, and you are good! This works much better than opening the whole lid.


Edited by PNW_Shroomer (11/10/16 06:38 AM)


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InvisibleMoabfighter
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Re: The perfect Grain Jar Lid [Re: PNW_Shroomer] * 1
    #23818498 - 11/10/16 06:40 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

PNW_Shroomer said:
You should try grain-to-grain transfer through the hole in the top of the lid. Immediately after you drop in the grains, stick some micropore tape over the hole, and you are good! This works much better than opening the whole lid.





I don't think this is correct in any way.


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OfflineThe Mycologist
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Re: The perfect Grain Jar Lid [Re: PNW_Shroomer]
    #23818505 - 11/10/16 06:42 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Pasty just loosens the plastic lids a little for ge


--------------------
"That you are here—that life exists, and identity;
That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.”
― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass
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InvisibleComebackKid
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Re: The perfect Grain Jar Lid [Re: Melchizedech]
    #23818509 - 11/10/16 06:44 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Or order some synthetic filter disks to fit under your plastic lids. SFDs are like 99.97% effective against contamination.
I've heard of tyvek secured with MP tape being effective as well.
MP tape is the least effective. I'm currently using MP myself while I wait for my SFDs in the mail. If you're going to use MP as a last resort I suggest 2 or 3 layers and colonize in your SAB


--------------------
:amanita2: Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care :sporedrop:

Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind.
Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind,
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Offlineenlightenment
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Re: The perfect Grain Jar Lid [Re: ComebackKid]
    #23818513 - 11/10/16 06:47 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

May be interesting for someone:
Some tips about lids (rusty lids, sharp-edged lids, drilling holes...)

I never used plastic lids on glass jars because I did not found PP plastic lids that fit on the European twist off jars.


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OfflinePNW_Shroomer
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Re: The perfect Grain Jar Lid [Re: Moabfighter]
    #23818533 - 11/10/16 06:55 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Takes some precision, patience, and a larger hole, but it can de done. I have done it a few times. To say it is not right in any way is a bit closed-minded. I am not saying I do it all the time, or that it is the correct way to do it. In fact, I don't really care too much for grain-to-grain, but it can be done.


Edited by PNW_Shroomer (11/10/16 06:58 AM)


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: The perfect Grain Jar Lid [Re: PNW_Shroomer]
    #23818565 - 11/10/16 07:13 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

The perfect lid is the one that works. . .


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Offlineenlightenment
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Re: The perfect Grain Jar Lid [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23818571 - 11/10/16 07:15 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)



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OfflineMelchizedech
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Re: The perfect Grain Jar Lid [Re: ComebackKid]
    #23818572 - 11/10/16 07:16 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ComebackKid said:
Or order some synthetic filter disks to fit under your plastic lids. SFDs are like 99.97% effective against contamination.
I've heard of tyvek secured with MP tape being effective as well.
MP tape is the least effective. I'm currently using MP myself while I wait for my SFDs in the mail. If you're going to use MP as a last resort I suggest 2 or 3 layers and colonize in your SAB





Yeah I've got some of those disks.

BUT

Upon receiving them, I thought they are WAY too large.
So I cut them in 4 pieces, and tape them.

:grin:


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OfflineMelchizedech
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Re: The perfect Grain Jar Lid [Re: Melchizedech]
    #23818578 - 11/10/16 07:18 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Why underneath the lid, specifically?


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OfflinePNW_Shroomer
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Re: The perfect Grain Jar Lid [Re: Melchizedech]
    #23818589 - 11/10/16 07:24 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

It helps to secure it, and provides better view. Not really a hassle, and more for inoculation than grain-to-grain, but it also helps you find your GE hole and your inoculation hole, as well. Just easier, I suppose.


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Re: The perfect Grain Jar Lid [Re: PNW_Shroomer]
    #23819074 - 11/10/16 10:06 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

1/2 inch hole in the center stuffed tight with polyfill has worked good for me, and they usually last 3-4 times before getting really rusty (the rusty ones work too, but i usually replace them at this point since they're so cheap).  For g2g i have the lids on rubber side up and secured to the bands with 3 pieces of evenly spaced masking tape.  Usually i do 20 jars at a time (from 2 master jars), so i loosen up all 20 lids (with the aluminum foil cover still on) prior to doing the transfer, so it's really quick to just pop off the pre-loosened lid (after removing the foil, of course) and dump in the colonized grain


--------------------
:awedance:




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OfflineMushierage
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Re: The perfect Grain Jar Lid [Re: The Mycologist]
    #23819096 - 11/10/16 10:12 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The Mycologist said:
Pasty just loosens the plastic lids a little for ge




Yeah, but this isn't the recommended method.  Just what you do when you're tired of stuffing poly and gluing and cutting SFDs.  I agree it works, and I honestly do it too, but for it isn't just for anybody, especially people that like to touch their jars... at all.


--------------------
Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup.  OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.



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OfflineMelchizedech
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Re: The perfect Grain Jar Lid [Re: crackbaby]
    #23819339 - 11/10/16 11:20 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

crackbaby said:
1/2 inch hole in the center stuffed tight with polyfill has worked good for me, and they usually last 3-4 times before getting really rusty (the rusty ones work too, but i usually replace them at this point since they're so cheap).  For g2g i have the lids on rubber side up and secured to the bands with 3 pieces of evenly spaced masking tape.  Usually i do 20 jars at a time (from 2 master jars), so i loosen up all 20 lids (with the aluminum foil cover still on) prior to doing the transfer, so it's really quick to just pop off the pre-loosened lid (after removing the foil, of course) and dump in the colonized grain




Hm. And no holes at all in your jars eh? It works fine for GE?


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InvisibleComebackKid
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Re: The perfect Grain Jar Lid [Re: Melchizedech]
    #23819496 - 11/10/16 11:49 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

The disks should be the size of you jar mouth opening and you place your lid overtop to secure it in place.
There's 70mm 90mm and I think 110mm
It's not recommended that you cut them because it ruins the integrity of the filter and they eventually wear out I hear. If you keep them intact they will last for life. (Or so they claim on the website)


--------------------
:amanita2: Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care :sporedrop:

Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind.
Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind,
is peering in from outside the universe.

Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself


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Re: The perfect Grain Jar Lid [Re: ComebackKid]
    #23819545 - 11/10/16 11:59 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Ahhh.  No SFDs i don't have any. Gonna make jars next week I think... I have polyfil, micropore, and postal tyvek. I really think I wanna try double layer micropore on both sides of the lid... and you guys say put the rubber seal facing upwards, lids upside down??


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InvisibleComebackKid
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Re: The perfect Grain Jar Lid [Re: Moabfighter]
    #23819630 - 11/10/16 12:19 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Don't put MP tape on the inside of your lids there moab. I think thats asking for trouble.
You could MP a piece of tyvek over the hole though
If you put your lids upside down it will be easier to open your jars to drop wedges or G2G transfer


--------------------
:amanita2: Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care :sporedrop:

Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind.
Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind,
is peering in from outside the universe.

Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself


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Offlinetombosley8
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Re: The perfect Grain Jar Lid [Re: PNW_Shroomer]
    #23819649 - 11/10/16 12:24 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ComebackKid said:
Or order some synthetic filter disks to fit under your plastic lids. SFDs are like 99.97% effective against contamination.
I've heard of tyvek secured with MP tape being effective as well.
MP tape is the least effective. I'm currently using MP myself while I wait for my SFDs in the mail. If you're going to use MP as a last resort I suggest 2 or 3 layers and colonize in your SAB



:whathesaid:

Quote:

PNW_Shroomer said:
Takes some precision, patience, and a larger hole, but it can de done. I have done it a few times. To say it is not right in any way is a bit closed-minded. I am not saying I do it all the time, or that it is the correct way to do it. In fact, I don't really care too much for grain-to-grain, but it can be done.



This guy?:facepalm:


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Offlineblackout
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Re: The perfect Grain Jar Lid [Re: Moabfighter]
    #23820097 - 11/10/16 03:17 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Melchizedech said:

The metal ones rust, are 2 pieces,



I use 1 piece regular food jars. Stainless steel lids are available, you can also paint cut edges or silicone them up while attaching your filters or doing SHIPs.


Quote:

Moabfighter said:
I've always heard skip the SHIP.



many say SHIPs will lead to contams as it could push them in. The people who say this then usually have no reply at all when told the simple solution -put foil on the jars to cover the SHIP and do not remove until injection time. I usually use cheap sandwich bags, which are not heat rated, they just shrink and cling to the jar. In other cases people are just purely self centered and refuse to even acknowledge that it could suit somebody elses setup & situation.


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Invisiblecrackbaby
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Re: The perfect Grain Jar Lid [Re: Melchizedech]
    #23820183 - 11/10/16 03:46 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Melchizedech said:
Quote:

crackbaby said:
1/2 inch hole in the center stuffed tight with polyfill has worked good for me, and they usually last 3-4 times before getting really rusty (the rusty ones work too, but i usually replace them at this point since they're so cheap).  For g2g i have the lids on rubber side up and secured to the bands with 3 pieces of evenly spaced masking tape.  Usually i do 20 jars at a time (from 2 master jars), so i loosen up all 20 lids (with the aluminum foil cover still on) prior to doing the transfer, so it's really quick to just pop off the pre-loosened lid (after removing the foil, of course) and dump in the colonized grain




Hm. And no holes at all in your jars eh? It works fine for GE?




all the jars have 1/2 inch hole drilled in the center, stuffed with polyfill, lid facing rubber side up


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Re: The perfect Grain Jar Lid [Re: blackout]
    #23820234 - 11/10/16 04:00 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

the usual reply is why even bother when cracking the lids is so much faster and easier and is something you wanna learn for working with agar anyway.


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Re: The perfect Grain Jar Lid [Re: spacechildo]
    #23820264 - 11/10/16 04:13 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

spacechildo said:
the usual reply is why even bother when cracking the lids is so much faster and easier and is something you wanna learn for working with agar anyway.



Yep, that one is trotted out a lot, yet another reply often with no consideration/acceptance of what might be faster and easier for others.


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: The perfect Grain Jar Lid [Re: blackout]
    #23820308 - 11/10/16 04:35 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

when I say easier I mean less work higher success rate. Not how to cut as many corners as possible and still "get mushrooms".


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Offlineblackout
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Re: The perfect Grain Jar Lid [Re: spacechildo]
    #23820327 - 11/10/16 04:42 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

spacechildo said:
when I say easier I mean less work higher success rate. Not how to cut as many corners as possible and still "get mushrooms".



that could be said by people who favour either technique... and they might be correct depending on their own setup, that is what I am getting at.


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Re: The perfect Grain Jar Lid [Re: blackout]
    #23820471 - 11/10/16 05:41 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

:knowwhatnevermind:


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OfflineTight Lunchbox
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Re: The perfect Grain Jar Lid [Re: spacechildo]
    #23820557 - 11/10/16 06:06 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

PNW_Shroomer said:
You should try grain-to-grain transfer through the hole in the top of the lid. Immediately after you drop in the grains, stick some micropore tape over the hole, and you are good! This works much better than opening the whole lid.




LOL WHAT?


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OfflinePNW_Shroomer
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Re: The perfect Grain Jar Lid [Re: Tight Lunchbox]
    #23821198 - 11/10/16 09:22 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Suppose I was a bit drunk when I wrote that. Well, I think it was something tried long ago, and somehow worked, I guess. No need for making fun of me for that. Haha! I am usually on this site when I am fucked up.


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Re: The perfect Grain Jar Lid [Re: PNW_Shroomer]
    #23822303 - 11/11/16 08:45 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

please dont!


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Re: The perfect Grain Jar Lid [Re: spacechildo]
    #23822664 - 11/11/16 11:11 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

SFDs are hard to get in Europa, since nobody is selling them around here. I searched a lot and I didn't find any. And since there is no information about of what material these SFDs are made of, I haven't find any alternative solution.

Unfortunately the shop linked in pastys threads about Lids from his "Tek collection" didn't answer my email about shipping SFDs to germany, eventhough they state on their shopsite, that they ship international.

So I use Polyfil. Also hard to get in Germany, so I bough heat resistance craft or pillow stuff polyester. Works fine since now :smile:


To avoid rust you can either go for the nail polish remover tek by enlightement or just put rust-o-leum or something like that on the holes in the lid.


--------------------
Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best :smile:




My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek


Edited by AlCapone2k (11/11/16 11:19 AM)


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: The perfect Grain Jar Lid [Re: AlCapone2k]
    #23822855 - 11/11/16 12:16 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

pillow stuff polyester = polyfill :thumbup:


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Re: The perfect Grain Jar Lid [Re: spacechildo]
    #23822878 - 11/11/16 12:23 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I know, I meant the "Brand" Polyfil (with one l) :smile: It's just the same like usual pillow stuff. As long it's heat resistant you can use almost every polyester "wool" no matter what it's called by the manufacturer.


--------------------
Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best :smile:




My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: The perfect Grain Jar Lid [Re: AlCapone2k]
    #23822882 - 11/11/16 12:24 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

its not "wool", its polyester, all polyester is polyester and can withstand heat :super:


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Re: The perfect Grain Jar Lid [Re: spacechildo]
    #23822935 - 11/11/16 12:40 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, you are right :smile:


--------------------
Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best :smile:




My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek


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