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Invisiblerackem
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Re: Electoral college [Re: koods]
    #23818214 - 11/10/16 01:57 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

hey if the EC stays, i believe that is the step in the right direction of fairness and it would also make a personal vote seem a little bit more powerful to the people that think that their vote doesnt matter.


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OfflineEnjoywho
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Re: Electoral college [Re: koods]
    #23818216 - 11/10/16 01:58 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
The electoral college supresses  turnout as well. why vote if you know your state is reliably in your party's column. A popular vote system makes state totals irrelevant. Every vote counts.




I agree that's why I don't vote. I'm mostly spit balling as I'm by no means an expert on government philosophy and don't know what the right answer is. That absolutely does detract from why I personally don't vote.

I did vote for the bills on a state level this election but left president blank. As it didn't really matter what I voted for we are overwhelmingly Democratic. Perhaps that is the right way to do it. Honestly I don't know and this election cycle has me burnt on politics. Such a circus it's hard to find actual facts after wading through all the bullshit.


--------------------
"I don't give nothin' to nobody, I just pay the cost to do business." - Riley "Young Reezy"-Boondocks

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

"In the days of kings and queens I was a jester."

"And then the great lord created bears... too many bears... shoulda really dialed back on the bears." Squidbillies

"Can you start speaking words instead of your damn filthy lies!"- Louise "Bobs Burgers"


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OfflineEnjoywho
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Re: Electoral college [Re: rackem]
    #23818220 - 11/10/16 02:04 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

rackem said:
i think the electoral college votes should be split among how the people of the state vote. like if the state has 10 electoral and the split between the 2 parties is 60/40 it should be accounted for according to the votes.




That was another idea I've been mulling over today. As even though your state majority won by a percent. That's basically ignoring 49% of the rest. I've been trying to mull over the best way to do it. That would basically mean your doing pop vote. But dividing it to the lowest common denominator.

Which is just basic algebra. Smaller numbers are easier to work with.

I would honestly support this idea more than completely abolishing it.


--------------------
"I don't give nothin' to nobody, I just pay the cost to do business." - Riley "Young Reezy"-Boondocks

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

"In the days of kings and queens I was a jester."

"And then the great lord created bears... too many bears... shoulda really dialed back on the bears." Squidbillies

"Can you start speaking words instead of your damn filthy lies!"- Louise "Bobs Burgers"


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: Electoral college [Re: ohcrapitsnico]
    #23818223 - 11/10/16 02:08 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ohcrapitsnico said:
The electoral college was not created to ensure small states an equal voice it was created to remove the election of the president directly from the hands of the public. The consequence is that any state that has a close margin of support between candidates gets an outsized voice in the election as you see with Florida and North Carolina which are definitely not small states.




I think in cases like this, say anything in the upper 40s percent, the college should be split in half.

The justification is again for states rights and that what is best for a state is more important than what is best for individuals. At the time this system was founded a considerable number of people were ineligible to vote either because they were slaves, non caucasian in general, or female. It was believed that the governing body and the voice of the intelligent and educated voters would see to doing best for everyone.


Obviously times have changed and people are pretty well equally stupid now.




Enjoywho it's no secret American tries to pass itself off as a democracy. Even to it's own people.


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          :dancingbear: Free time is the only time :dancingbear:                    :thatsinteresting:


Edited by CookieCrumbs (11/10/16 02:19 AM)


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: Electoral college [Re: Crystal G]
    #23818229 - 11/10/16 02:18 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

koods said:
The electoral college supresses  turnout as well. why vote if you know your state is reliably in your party's column. A popular vote system makes state totals irrelevant. Every vote counts.




In Australia they made voting mandatory among all citizens. Maybe the USA should try something similar.




This would never work in the states unless you did it uber style and had someone come and pick up the vote when the person is ready to vote. I could only imagine how much more fraud would happen. To say nothing of the amount of bitching.


Though I do kinda wish it would happen. It would be very interesting to have a country that is actually represented on the votes. And not just under a quarter of the population (which is how many voted for either candidate)


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          :dancingbear: Free time is the only time :dancingbear:                    :thatsinteresting:


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OfflineEnjoywho
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Re: Electoral college [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #23818230 - 11/10/16 02:23 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Ya I dunno. Brain is fried. Too much politics over such a short amount of time. I don't have the knowledge to even have a vague idea of what the right way is. Well people who's entire lives are government philosophy don't. There's pros and cons to all of them. This is way under my pay grade. :lol:

I'm an optimistic person in general so I'm just trying to look at the positive. It's been 1 day there's a lot that can happen and I highly doubt it's just doom. And gloom time to jump ship.


--------------------
"I don't give nothin' to nobody, I just pay the cost to do business." - Riley "Young Reezy"-Boondocks

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

"In the days of kings and queens I was a jester."

"And then the great lord created bears... too many bears... shoulda really dialed back on the bears." Squidbillies

"Can you start speaking words instead of your damn filthy lies!"- Louise "Bobs Burgers"


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Electoral college [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #23818232 - 11/10/16 02:24 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

CookieCrumbs said:
This would never work in the states unless you did it uber style and had someone come and pick up the vote when the person is ready to vote. I could only imagine how much more fraud would happen. To say nothing of the amount of bitching.




I don't know, Australia is also a big country and they make it work. IDK how they do it though.

Maybe just make it mandatory for taxpayers by including a voting form with the tax form? And you cannot fill out your taxes unless you also vote? Pretty hard to do voter fraud with something like that unless you outright steal somebody's social security number.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Electoral college [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #23818233 - 11/10/16 02:26 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

It's interesting that everyone seems to feel that they are only represented by the candidate they voted for. The president represents everyone no matter who voted for him,

Why does everyone need to make it complicated? Every variation of the EC system has unintended and unpredictable consequence and doesn't fundamentally solve anything. Popular vote is so simple. So simple that we count it already.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Electoral college [Re: Crystal G]
    #23818234 - 11/10/16 02:28 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

CookieCrumbs said:
This would never work in the states unless you did it uber style and had someone come and pick up the vote when the person is ready to vote. I could only imagine how much more fraud would happen. To say nothing of the amount of bitching.




I don't know, Australia is also a big country and they make it work. IDK how they do it though.

Maybe just make it mandatory for taxpayers by including a voting form with the tax form? And you cannot fill out your taxes unless you also vote? Pretty hard to do voter fraud with something like that.




It wouldn't work here because we get Buthrt when government mandates anything.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: Electoral college [Re: koods]
    #23818237 - 11/10/16 02:35 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Basically. I got pissed that I had to start filing a form that proves I have healthcare through an insurance provider. Then again I dislike doing taxes in general. It's stressful and at the end of every year uncle sam is like oh yeah we took more of your money than we should have, here's some back. I'd rather the fuckers keep it and leave me alone.


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OfflineEnjoywho
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Re: Electoral college [Re: koods]
    #23818240 - 11/10/16 02:37 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

First of all a. No. B. The population of Australia is only 5 million people more than the population of new york. It can't even be used for comparison.


--------------------
"I don't give nothin' to nobody, I just pay the cost to do business." - Riley "Young Reezy"-Boondocks

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

"In the days of kings and queens I was a jester."

"And then the great lord created bears... too many bears... shoulda really dialed back on the bears." Squidbillies

"Can you start speaking words instead of your damn filthy lies!"- Louise "Bobs Burgers"


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: Electoral college [Re: Crystal G]
    #23818242 - 11/10/16 02:38 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Though that's more because I feel it's way more complicated than it should be. I always feel like I'm going to file incorrectly because I didn't consult with a lawyer, banker, and financial provider.

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

CookieCrumbs said:
This would never work in the states unless you did it uber style and had someone come and pick up the vote when the person is ready to vote. I could only imagine how much more fraud would happen. To say nothing of the amount of bitching.




I don't know, Australia is also a big country and they make it work. IDK how they do it though.

Maybe just make it mandatory for taxpayers by including a voting form with the tax form? And you cannot fill out your taxes unless you also vote? Pretty hard to do voter fraud with something like that unless you outright steal somebody's social security number.





That could work.


--------------------
          :dancingbear: Free time is the only time :dancingbear:                    :thatsinteresting:


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Electoral college [Re: Enjoywho]
    #23818245 - 11/10/16 02:43 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

So I read about how Australia does it. They simply require all voters to show up to a polling booth. The voters that show up are not required to vote, they are allowed to cast a blank vote if they wish, they just have to show up to a booth with their ID or whatever and prove they were there.

If they do not show up, they receive a letter in the mail that charges them with a $15 fine. Unless they provide a reasonable excuse for not voting such as illness or travel or religious reasons or whatever, in which case they can get out of paying the fine.

Seems simple enough.

If anything, I would think there would be less instances of voter fraud if we implemented a mandatory voting system. If somebody's social security number shows up as having voted twice, that's an obvious red flag for voter fraud.


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Re: Electoral college [Re: CookieCrumbs] * 1
    #23818247 - 11/10/16 02:44 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Free gun with each ballot.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Electoral college [Re: Crystal G]
    #23818249 - 11/10/16 02:47 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
So I read about how Australia does it. They simply require all voters to show up to a polling booth. The voters that show up are not required to vote, they are allowed to cast a blank vote if they wish, they just have to show up to a booth with their ID or whatever and prove they were there.

If they do not show up, they receive a letter in the mail that charges them with a $15 fine. Unless they provide a reasonable excuse for not voting such as illness or travel or religious reasons or whatever, in which case they can get out of paying the fine.

Seems simple enough.

If anything, I would think there would be less instances of voter fraud if we implemented a mandatory voting system. If somebody's social security number shows up as having voted twice, that's an obvious red flag for voter fraud.



There isn't very much voter fraud now because you can only vote once already. When you vote, your name is marked and they will see you have already voted if you try again.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineEnjoywho
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Re: Electoral college [Re: Enjoywho]
    #23818257 - 11/10/16 03:01 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I've been mulling over what should we do. All government philosophies have pros and cons. True democracy and communism look good on paper but look at communism. They have even more of an elite wealth and people eating shoes. The closest thing I can come to is decide the electoral voted by state by population. Say you have a 40/60 dem/rep split in a 10 electoral state. Split the votes. 4/6. The math equals out and makes sense for electorate votes and population. It's just reducing to the lowest common denominator. Basic algebra. Which makes the numbers easier to understand.

I think this is the best way to do it.  Let's use Alaska as the example as I've been doing. It was a 2/3rd 1/3rd rep/Democrat. So there 3 votes would be 2/1. Everyone's vote still counts if at the end the electoral would be tied at a half of a percent than go off overall pop vote.

I think that gives fairness to all. That's my personal solution to it. I'm tired of politics.


--------------------
"I don't give nothin' to nobody, I just pay the cost to do business." - Riley "Young Reezy"-Boondocks

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

"In the days of kings and queens I was a jester."

"And then the great lord created bears... too many bears... shoulda really dialed back on the bears." Squidbillies

"Can you start speaking words instead of your damn filthy lies!"- Louise "Bobs Burgers"


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OfflineEnjoywho
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Re: Electoral college [Re: Crystal G]
    #23818258 - 11/10/16 03:06 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
So I read about how Australia does it. They simply require all voters to show up to a polling booth. The voters that show up are not required to vote, they are allowed to cast a blank vote if they wish, they just have to show up to a booth with their ID or whatever and prove they were there.

If they do not show up, they receive a letter in the mail that charges them with a $15 fine. Unless they provide a reasonable excuse for not voting such as illness or travel or religious reasons or whatever, in which case they can get out of paying the fine.

Seems simple enough.

If anything, I would think there would be less instances of voter fraud if we implemented a mandatory voting system. If somebody's social security number shows up as having voted twice, that's an obvious red flag for voter fraud.




Not going to lie I'd just pay the 15$ and not go if I was forced to. That's pocket change. I've never gone to jury duty and nothing has ever come of it. :shrug:


--------------------
"I don't give nothin' to nobody, I just pay the cost to do business." - Riley "Young Reezy"-Boondocks

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

"In the days of kings and queens I was a jester."

"And then the great lord created bears... too many bears... shoulda really dialed back on the bears." Squidbillies

"Can you start speaking words instead of your damn filthy lies!"- Louise "Bobs Burgers"


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Electoral college [Re: koods]
    #23818262 - 11/10/16 03:13 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
There isn't very much voter fraud now because you can only vote once already. When you vote, your name is marked and they will see you have already voted if you try again.




Is the list computerized and accessible to everybody and everything? Because what happens if you travel to a different county or city or polling booth?


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Electoral college [Re: Enjoywho]
    #23818264 - 11/10/16 03:15 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Well, that system means smaller states cannot represent their totals as accurately as large states.

Why is everyone tribe to come up with a way to make this fair? It is inherently flawed. The popular vote however, is pure. It's just counting.  And I still don't get why Alaska voters should get to have their votes worth more than a California in the presidential race. You already have small states getting the same number of senators as large ones - that is your undeserved excess influence.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Electoral college [Re: Crystal G]
    #23818267 - 11/10/16 03:16 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

koods said:
There isn't very much voter fraud now because you can only vote once already. When you vote, your name is marked and they will see you have already voted if you try again.




Is the list computerized and accessible to everybody and everything? Because what happens if you travel to a different county or city or polling booth?



You have one assigned polling location. You can't just vote anywhere ypu want.

Have you voted before :lol:


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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