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Enjoywho
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Electoral college 3
#23817952 - 11/09/16 11:28 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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This is why I agree with it. I did some math.
The electoral college is used in order to give both low populated states and high populated states a voice in the election. California has the population of the lowest 22 states combined. Why should Cali have so much power? The West has different needs than the mid west, they have a right to have a voice. Winning the majority in a state gives you the votes. Trump won the popular vote of 30 states. It would be silly to decide the candidate by popular vote just because Cali is very heavily populated and democratic.
I just did the math on our home state of Alaska. Without the electoral college Alaska's voice would only be 1.89% of Cali's. With the electoral college Alaska's voice is 5.45% of Cali's. So as you can see, it isn't as simple as popular vote should win. Different places in the U.S have different needs. The electoral college helps balance out the power of the states.
Getting rid of the electoral college will truly get rid of the voice of all states of 1-2 million people.
-------------------- "I don't give nothin' to nobody, I just pay the cost to do business." - Riley "Young Reezy"-Boondocks "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." "In the days of kings and queens I was a jester." "And then the great lord created bears... too many bears... shoulda really dialed back on the bears." Squidbillies "Can you start speaking words instead of your damn filthy lies!"- Louise "Bobs Burgers"
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LogicaL Chaos
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Re: Electoral college [Re: Enjoywho]
#23817977 - 11/09/16 11:40 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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well spoken man.
I agree totally even thou i like the popular count cause it just feels simplier.
But yes, the electoral college is much more fair "for the people, by the people".
-------------------- "What you must understand is that your physical dimension affects everyone in the higher dimensions as well. All things are interconnected. All things are One. Therefore, if one dimension is broken or out of balance, then all other dimensions will experience repercussions." - Pleiadian Prophecy 2020 The New Golden Age by James Carwin PROJECT BLUE BOOK ANALYSIS! (312 pages!) | Psychedelics & UFOs | Ready to Contact UFOs? | The Source on Mushrooms | Trippy Gematrix | Dj TeknoLogical | Fentanyl Test Kits R.I.P. Big Worm || The Start of the Ascension Process was 2020. Welcome to the Next Great Era of Earth 🌎🌍🌏
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Crystal G



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In a true democracy an electoral college shouldn't even exist. It should be the voice of the popular vote and that's it.
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The Mycologist
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Getting rid of the electoral college would force candidates to fight for votes in every state rather than just the swing ones. An Alaskan persons vote is worth more than other states and thats not right.
-------------------- "That you are here—that life exists, and identity; That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.” ― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass

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PartoftheSource
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If they got rid of the electoral college wouldn't they just mainly fight for votes in the states with the biggest population? leaving no attention to the smallest states with the least population?
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ohcrapitsnico
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Re: Electoral college [Re: Enjoywho]
#23818000 - 11/09/16 11:53 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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That's what the senate is for. We are the only country that elects the loser as president.
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Enjoywho
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Re: Electoral college [Re: Crystal G] 2
#23818006 - 11/09/16 11:57 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said: In a true democracy an electoral college shouldn't even exist. It should be the voice of the popular vote and that's it.
This is what cracks me up most. We aren't a true democracy. We're a Republic. Am I the only one that paid attention in us government.
-------------------- "I don't give nothin' to nobody, I just pay the cost to do business." - Riley "Young Reezy"-Boondocks "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." "In the days of kings and queens I was a jester." "And then the great lord created bears... too many bears... shoulda really dialed back on the bears." Squidbillies "Can you start speaking words instead of your damn filthy lies!"- Louise "Bobs Burgers"
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Enjoywho
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Quote:
PartoftheSource said: If they got rid of the electoral college wouldn't they just mainly fight for votes in the states with the biggest population? leaving no attention to the smallest states with the least population?
Pretty much. That's exactly why they wouldn't bother with the Midwest. Why do you think Wisconsin and New Hampshire. A measly 6 and 4 votes respectively. Made up huge talking points.
Small states will lose all there power with the abolishment of the electoral college. That is when I will lose hope in America.
-------------------- "I don't give nothin' to nobody, I just pay the cost to do business." - Riley "Young Reezy"-Boondocks "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." "In the days of kings and queens I was a jester." "And then the great lord created bears... too many bears... shoulda really dialed back on the bears." Squidbillies "Can you start speaking words instead of your damn filthy lies!"- Louise "Bobs Burgers"
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ohcrapitsnico
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Re: Electoral college [Re: Enjoywho]
#23818023 - 11/10/16 12:05 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enjoywho said:
Quote:
PartoftheSource said: If they got rid of the electoral college wouldn't they just mainly fight for votes in the states with the biggest population? leaving no attention to the smallest states with the least population?
Pretty much. That's exactly why they wouldn't bother with the Midwest. Why do you think Wisconsin and New Hampshire. A measly 6 and 4 votes respectively. Made up huge talking points.
Small states will lose all there power with the abolishment of the electoral college. That is when I will lose hope in America.
No. The problem with the electoral college is that it makes the candidates ignore all the states that reliably vote for one party and focus in on the very few battleground states. So you have a handful of states that get all the attention from the candidates and they hijack the election again and again. And you have proof of that when pretty much everyone ignored Wisconsin and Michigan right up until the end because they were considered irrelevant.
If you made it dependent on popular vote it would open the race everywhere as every vote becomes equal. You would want to get any vote anywhere you could get it making every state up for grabs where you can achieve votes whether that be talking to moderates and independents in swing states or your base in reliably blue/red states. No one is ignored.
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ohcrapitsnico
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The electoral college was not created to ensure small states an equal voice it was created to remove the election of the president directly from the hands of the public. The consequence is that any state that has a close margin of support between candidates gets an outsized voice in the election as you see with Florida and North Carolina which are definitely not small states.
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koods
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States are irrelevant if you have a popular vote.
Enjoywho, why the fuck should Alaska get more influence than its population deserves?. When you describe it that way you are describing a rigged system where votes in smaller states are more influential than votes in larger states I don't understand how anyone can justify that. What is wrong with everyone getting a single vote
We have had six presidential elections since 1992, and going by raw votes, democrats won every election except 2004. We now have had two elections in this century where the democrat won the vote and lost the race. This is democracy and its absurd to think its normal or acceptable that second place finishers get to win elections.
And don't think that this doesn't really matter because this could happen to either side, the fact is because large states tend to be democratic and small states republican, it is far more likely for the democrat to lose despite winning than the other way around. There is no way to remove partisan advantages in the electoral college system.
As much as the trump side complained about rigged elections, it is democrats who have really been screwed by the system.
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Enjoywho
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Re: Electoral college [Re: koods]
#23818034 - 11/10/16 12:15 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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So cities decide what we do. Fuck the Midwest. If we want to do that I say split up the US. Become like the European Union. Because that's a load of shit.
Maybe we all just need a long break from each other. It's to balance power. I say segment the US into sections. Dismantle the main government. Then we can have states rights back.
We have have been a democracy ever. The founding fathers set up a Republic. As true democracy doesn't work.
-------------------- "I don't give nothin' to nobody, I just pay the cost to do business." - Riley "Young Reezy"-Boondocks "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." "In the days of kings and queens I was a jester." "And then the great lord created bears... too many bears... shoulda really dialed back on the bears." Squidbillies "Can you start speaking words instead of your damn filthy lies!"- Louise "Bobs Burgers"
Edited by Enjoywho (11/10/16 12:20 AM)
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ohcrapitsnico
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Re: Electoral college [Re: Enjoywho]
#23818036 - 11/10/16 12:17 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enjoywho said: So cities decide what we do. Fuck the Midwest. If we want to do that I say split up the US. Become like the European Union. Because that's a load of shit.
That's what you have the senate for. But fuck the majority right? The minority should decide the presidency just like in an oligarchy and banana republic.
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Enjoywho
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Well 30 states voted against. That's 3/5ths of our land. Well Alaska is the size of 2/3rds of the lower 48.
I will be very disappointed if we get rid of the electoral college. True democracy doesn't work. Even ancient Greece wasn't a true democracy. It was a Republic. It's great on paper. But so is communism.
-------------------- "I don't give nothin' to nobody, I just pay the cost to do business." - Riley "Young Reezy"-Boondocks "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." "In the days of kings and queens I was a jester." "And then the great lord created bears... too many bears... shoulda really dialed back on the bears." Squidbillies "Can you start speaking words instead of your damn filthy lies!"- Louise "Bobs Burgers"
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koods
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Re: Electoral college [Re: Enjoywho]
#23818058 - 11/10/16 12:28 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enjoywho said:
Quote:
PartoftheSource said: If they got rid of the electoral college wouldn't they just mainly fight for votes in the states with the biggest population? leaving no attention to the smallest states with the least population?
Pretty much. That's exactly why they wouldn't bother with the Midwest. Why do you think Wisconsin and New Hampshire. A measly 6 and 4 votes respectively. Made up huge talking points.
Small states will lose all there power with the abolishment of the electoral college. That is when I will lose hope in America.
The entire country is ignored except for Battleground states in the EC system. How is that better? How does the electoral college benefit Alaska? There probably hasn't been a general election campaign rally in Alaska in the last 50 years.
You cannot design a system that gets everyone some attention. This is re age of instant communication and national news networks. We don't need to force candidates to visit places. Trying to manipulate where campaigning occurs using a contrived voting system is dumb, and considering that the second place finisher has won two elections in the past 16 years override, it is fundamentally unfair.
This is a representative democracy and the president represents all the people in the entire country, and he should be elected by the people not electoral voters were some state's citizens have more influence than elsewhere.
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koods
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Re: Electoral college [Re: Enjoywho]
#23818065 - 11/10/16 12:30 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enjoywho said: Well 30 states voted against. That's 3/5ths of our land. Well Alaska is the size of 2/3rds of the lower 48.
I will be very disappointed if we get rid of the electoral college. True democracy doesn't work. Even ancient Greece wasn't a true democracy. It was a Republic. It's great on paper. But so is communism.
I just don't get why you think Alaska gets anything out the electoral college. When was the last time a presidential candidate stepped foot in Alaska during the general election? Has it ever happened?
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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ohcrapitsnico
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Re: Electoral college [Re: Enjoywho]
#23818066 - 11/10/16 12:30 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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So now the qualification for how much your vote counts should be how much land you have, why don't we add an income qualification too while we're at it? Seriously I don't understand why you're trying to disenfranchise people.
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Enjoywho
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Re: Electoral college [Re: koods]
#23818070 - 11/10/16 12:32 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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All the people? Hillary won by 200 thousand votes. So the president really represents half the people.
It doesn't matter if a candidate steps foot. We get a 4% increase in say. With California which has the most say of all.
-------------------- "I don't give nothin' to nobody, I just pay the cost to do business." - Riley "Young Reezy"-Boondocks "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." "In the days of kings and queens I was a jester." "And then the great lord created bears... too many bears... shoulda really dialed back on the bears." Squidbillies "Can you start speaking words instead of your damn filthy lies!"- Louise "Bobs Burgers"
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koods
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Re: Electoral college [Re: koods]
#23818074 - 11/10/16 12:33 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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When was the last time there was a campaign stop in New York or California? Thanks to the EC, two of the largest states in the country have been ignored for 20+ years
The fact is the EC makes most of the county irrelevant to the candidates.
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The Mycologist
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Re: Electoral college [Re: Enjoywho]
#23818080 - 11/10/16 12:34 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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One man one vote.
Right now an Alaskan vote is worth 5x a Floridian vote. That seems like a serious problem with the system to me.
-------------------- "That you are here—that life exists, and identity; That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.” ― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass

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