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InvisibleMooshie_Muncha
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Contamination. Squishy Cakes. What the fuck?
    #23816088 - 11/09/16 12:21 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

So, a while ago I posted pictures of some of my cakes that went moldy because I over-misted. I birthed another cake that came from a different batch and, lo and behold, same fucking problem as the others. I only misted 3, maybe 4, times a day but it's starting to get the same white contamination that will undoubtedly be green in the morning. In total, I have lost 9 jars that had been birthed. It also feels squishy and it has only finished its first flush on Monday. Since then I've only misted once a day in an attempt to dry it out a bit without killing it, as stated in the Dunk and Roll tek. What the fuck am I doing wrong?

Also, we experienced a heat wave two weeks ago and on Saturday I had to chuck out 10 cakes that were still colonizing due to bacterial contamination, the one that survived has a yellow spot in it. What is it?

Seriously don't know what I'm doing wrong and I'm finding it to be exceptionally demotivating. I'm anal about sterile procedure and steam bath the jars for 90 minutes with a tight lid. Any help would really be appreciated.  :uhoh:



Edited by Mooshie_Muncha (11/09/16 12:30 PM)


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InvisibleTheMadHatter420
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Re: Contamination. Squishy Cakes. What the fuck? [Re: Mooshie_Muncha]
    #23816114 - 11/09/16 12:34 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I am assuming that you scrubbed your FC like crazy after the 1st ones went mold. If not its full of spores.


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InvisibleMooshie_Muncha
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Re: Contamination. Squishy Cakes. What the fuck? [Re: TheMadHatter420]
    #23816131 - 11/09/16 12:39 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I had to birth another cake that was fruiting invitro, so I sprayed the entire FC down with an Antiseptic and then gave it a good rinse. That might not have been sufficient, since I wanted to actually boil the perlite and scrub the entire FC. I will do that once I chuck out this cake.

However, I always thought that cakes are usually resilient to contamination? Especially when they are fresh?

Also, why did I lose the other cakes to bacteria after the heat wave? How did it get in all 10 jars?

On another note, the bad cakes I chucked into a bag with compost, coir and potting soil. I was pleasantly surprised to find that it has started colonizing. Outdoor experiment for the future, so it wasn't all a loss.


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InvisibleMooshie_Muncha
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Re: Contamination. Squishy Cakes. What the fuck? [Re: Mooshie_Muncha]
    #23816155 - 11/09/16 12:49 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Also, what's that yellow spot in my jar? Something to worry about?


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InvisibleTheMadHatter420
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Re: Contamination. Squishy Cakes. What the fuck? [Re: Mooshie_Muncha]
    #23816203 - 11/09/16 01:10 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

If you research you will find that you will NEVER kill 100% of ALL bacteria spores when pressure cooking. This is why the pros say to NOT incubate. Higher temps will speed mycelium growth but it speeds bacteria growth MUCH faster. I came back to growing after 10 years and relearned this the hard way. Keep temps down when colonizing. I am doing mine in low 70's right now. Its not that much slower and it allows the mycelium to out compete the bacteria.

Those cakes you speak of all ready had bacteria inside them. I pc for at least 2.5 hours. Will NOT kill all bacteria spores but it does injure them and it takes them longer to recover.

To me that last pic has to much moisture in it. My personal opinion of that spot is bacteria eating your substrate. I could be wrong. I hope one of the pros drops by and gives their opinion.

***remember that although a cake with bacteria may colonize and fruit, bacteria weakens it and opens the door for mold. We will never get rid of all bacteria but we have to do all we can to knock it out for a few weeks so that the mycelium can colonize the cakes. My last round of PINT cakes went 11/12. A lot of people say not to go bigger than 1/2 pint so that it is easier to get heat into the middle, but hey I go almost 3 hrs on my PC cycle.

Read up on baking the perlite for sterilization and scrub the shit out of that FC with some bleach, wont kill all but bleach kills most things. If you can, spay with a 10% bleach mist and let sit a few hours. I don't see anything bad coming from that and it gives it time to kill the spores. Bacteria and mold spores are FAR more resistant to chemicals than the actual bacteria or mold itself.


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OfflineOompah Loomp


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Re: Contamination. Squishy Cakes. What the fuck? [Re: TheMadHatter420]
    #23817774 - 11/09/16 10:00 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

:whathesaid:

That's about the most you can do till you get a pressure cooker/autoclave, sorry to hear about that many of your jars contaminating...  Don't give up though, soon as you get a couple flawless grows under your belt it'll add to your confidence and tune you in to what makes the mycelium happy. Clean up that chamber, colonize in cooler temps and maybe have a sacrificial ceremony or two. That should scare the crap out of most of the contaminates:laugh:


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Invisiblexvf
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Re: Contamination. Squishy Cakes. What the fuck? [Re: Oompah Loomp]
    #23817992 - 11/09/16 11:48 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Listen to him ^

Anyways...

First time grower here. I'm doing agar -> wbs -> monotubs. I would suggest you give it a try before throwing in the towel. Its honestly much easier than pf tek and much better yields. If cash is tight buy a pressure cooker and return it :cool:


Edited by xvf (11/09/16 11:49 PM)


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InvisibleMooshie_Muncha
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Re: Contamination. Squishy Cakes. What the fuck? [Re: xvf]
    #23818004 - 11/09/16 11:56 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks a lot for the advice. I'll definitely take it into consideration and do everything proper. I inoculated another 9 jars last night, so, here's hoping for the best. I'll also be cleaning out the FC properly before I fruit again. It's just kinda sad though.

I really want to move over to agar; as cool as cakes are, I just think that agar would be far more efficient and simpler to control and isolate clean mycelium. And fuck that, who doesn't want a monotub, or several, going. Cash is a bit tight at the moment and perhaps I will purchase one and return it. :lol:


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Invisiblexvf
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Re: Contamination. Squishy Cakes. What the fuck? [Re: Mooshie_Muncha]
    #23818033 - 11/10/16 12:14 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Bleach bath your fc and load a spray bottle with ~10% and spray everything suspect down.

And anything yellow/green is contam. Dont open it up, toss it out. Stay sterile by all means necessary.

But yeah man, contams are a bitch. If you dont dispose of contaminated cakes/jars properly you risk infecting your workplace.

And agar is so fucking easy its insane.

I followed this tut for my agar:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19208976

You can follow my shit here:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23778421

I started off planning to do pf tek but was persuaded to do agar -> wbs -> mono. I detailed all the materials and where I got them to make things easier on newbies like myself.


Edited by xvf (11/10/16 12:17 AM)


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OfflineA.RichardTrickle
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Re: Contamination. Squishy Cakes. What the fuck? [Re: TheMadHatter420]
    #23818039 - 11/10/16 12:18 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TheMadHatter420 said:
If you research you will find that you will NEVER kill 100% of ALL bacteria spores when pressure cooking. This is why the pros say to NOT incubate. Higher temps will speed mycelium growth but it speeds bacteria growth MUCH faster. I came back to growing after 10 years and relearned this the hard way. Keep temps down when colonizing. I am doing mine in low 70's right now. Its not that much slower and it allows the mycelium to out compete the bacteria.

Those cakes you speak of all ready had bacteria inside them. I pc for at least 2.5 hours. Will NOT kill all bacteria spores but it does injure them and it takes them longer to recover.

To me that last pic has to much moisture in it. My personal opinion of that spot is bacteria eating your substrate. I could be wrong. I hope one of the pros drops by and gives their opinion.

***remember that although a cake with bacteria may colonize and fruit, bacteria weakens it and opens the door for mold. We will never get rid of all bacteria but we have to do all we can to knock it out for a few weeks so that the mycelium can colonize the cakes. My last round of PINT cakes went 11/12. A lot of people say not to go bigger than 1/2 pint so that it is easier to get heat into the middle, but hey I go almost 3 hrs on my PC
______________________________________
OP:
Pint cakes are NOT recommended for various reasons, please search it before you waste time and resources, I tried, as have many others and failed, to much time to little results.
Rule #1 Follow The Tek Perfectly for perfect results.  These people have been doing this longer than many of us have been alive, listen to them!
If you want to do larger subs go for 1/2 pint cakes to bulk CVG.
No need to go three hours on cakes, good way to run your PC dry.

Read up on baking the perlite for sterilization and scrub the shit out of that FC with some bleach, wont kill all but bleach kills most things. If you can, spay with a 10% bleach mist and let sit a few hours. I don't see anything bad coming from that and it gives it time to kill the spores. Bacteria and mold spores are FAR more resistant to chemicals than the actual bacteria or mold itself.



____________________________________
I've read these forums for just over five years and NEVER heard of anyone baking perlite.
Per RR you can fruit colonized subs in the dirtiest conditions imaginable and be fine, if you get contams it's your sterile tek, not dirty fruiting conditions.  I agree if it's to wet it invites bacteria, however your cakes will fruit just fine without baking perlite.  Do the bleach mist if you so choose but Trich is EVERYWHERE, only places you won't find it are in heap filtered positive airflow hoods or if you're a baller a room.


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InvisibleTheMadHatter420
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Re: Contamination. Squishy Cakes. What the fuck? [Re: A.RichardTrickle]
    #23818755 - 11/10/16 08:47 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I do remember reading a few weeks back on here about baking perlite after rinsing it. What temp I can not say, guessing around 250F as that's our PC goal. Yes a good colonized substrate should be resistant, but in the early days of growing we are all capable of attempting fruiting a few days to soon and have a chance for contams to come in. I go on the side of caution when I got mold. Just a me thing. When I get on my comp, and not my phone, ill find and link the post.


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InvisibleTheMadHatter420
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Re: Contamination. Squishy Cakes. What the fuck? [Re: TheMadHatter420]
    #23819076 - 11/10/16 10:07 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

there is mixed opinion on baking the perlite. some say just boil it, baking can be used to dry it out after a bleach soak that some do.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/dosearch.php

It can go both ways its not a must do thing and its not a bad thing. I just feel if you had a mold farm in your FC you should take precaution. It can not hurt.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Contamination. Squishy Cakes. What the fuck? [Re: TheMadHatter420]
    #23819120 - 11/10/16 10:18 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Perlite is a rock. All you have to do is rinse with cold water. Baking and boiling perlite is retarded. If it's so dirty from dropped spores or other debris it needs to be changed out


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InvisibleTheMadHatter420
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Re: Contamination. Squishy Cakes. What the fuck? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23819316 - 11/10/16 11:15 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Well if he wants to replace it, that's up to him. I am not convinced that rinsing will get all mold spores out of the pores/dimples in the perlite. If he had mold in there he should at least do something about the perlite as it is HIGHLY likely that the mold dropped spores. YES if his next cakes are properly colonized the mold should not be able to get a hold, BUT there is always that chance, specially with cakes as many people use MS for cakes and not cleaned agar, which would mean that it will have bacteria and as you know bacteria opens the door for mold.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Contamination. Squishy Cakes. What the fuck? [Re: TheMadHatter420]
    #23819332 - 11/10/16 11:19 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

fruiting is done in the air anyway, the air is loaded with millions of colony forming units of spores and bacteria.

IIRC there's over 1000 CFU per cubic meter of average indoor house air. let alone what a human brings just by moving around


it's about knowing what actually matters and what's dumb


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InvisibleTheMadHatter420
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Re: Contamination. Squishy Cakes. What the fuck? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23819341 - 11/10/16 11:21 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

OK, you have the years of experience and the proof to back it up. I as well as other would do well to take in what you say. Maybe I worry about the wrong things. Been about 10 years since I grew and things have come to light since then.


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Edited by TheMadHatter420 (11/10/16 11:48 AM)


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InvisibleMooshie_Muncha
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Re: Contamination. Squishy Cakes. What the fuck? [Re: TheMadHatter420]
    #23819879 - 11/10/16 01:45 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks for the replies guys. I seem to learn something new every time and your input is always appreciated Bodhi.

Tired of being a noob and tired of screwing everything up though. Can't rush the learning process I suppose. Need to get myself a PC and some fucking agar.


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OfflineA.RichardTrickle
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Re: Contamination. Squishy Cakes. What the fuck? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23819889 - 11/10/16 01:51 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
fruiting is done in the air anyway, the air is loaded with millions of colony forming units of spores and bacteria.

IIRC there's over 1000 CFU per cubic meter of average indoor house air. let alone what a human brings just by moving around


it's about knowing what actually matters and what's dumb



"IIRC" ????


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InvisibleMunchauzen
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Re: Contamination. Squishy Cakes. What the fuck? [Re: A.RichardTrickle] * 1
    #23819930 - 11/10/16 02:10 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

If I recall correctly


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OfflineOompah Loomp


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Re: Contamination. Squishy Cakes. What the fuck? [Re: Mooshie_Muncha] * 1
    #23821496 - 11/10/16 11:15 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Definitely aim for a pressure cooker and agar, in the meantime I'd boil the perlite for at least 10 minutes, then soak it in a 10% bleach solution for 20 minutes. While this is happening wash your fruiting chamber out with dish soap and water then rinse. Also make sure to rinse the perlite until you can barely smell the bleach. I'm pretty sure that is as much as you'll need to do to ensure your fruiting chamber is safe enough to fruit in!:thumbup::stoned:

Don't listen to me though, I'm still a noob myself:hotidea:


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: Contamination. Squishy Cakes. What the fuck? [Re: Oompah Loomp]
    #23821788 - 11/11/16 03:04 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Your cakes are containted before coming out of the jars..try wide mouth half's for cakes and go over your inoculation procedure.


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