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InvisibleDustyBottoms
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Your ideal mescaline dosage...
    #23813277 - 11/08/16 04:18 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I recently extracted some mescaline tar from 46g of Bridgesii powder.  I made the powder myself and used the ENTIRE cactus, not just the skin.  The 46g came from exactly 24" of cactus cuttings for those interested.  I used an alcohol extraction tek. 

I was a little disappointed with the trip itself and feel that I could have handled more.  A lot more.  But based on previous discussions with a few others from this site, they had me thinking that 40g would be more than plenty.  Now I'm realizing this was maybe poor advice.  I mean I had a good time but I feel like I didnt really get to experience all that mescaline has to offer.

I'm curious to know how much you guys take for a good, strong mescaline trip???  I just ordered another 48" and I'm thinking about ramping my next trip (over Thanksgiving)  to 75g of powder this time. 

Thoughts?


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OfflinePeyote Road
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Re: Your ideal mescaline dosage... [Re: DustyBottoms]
    #23813375 - 11/08/16 04:58 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Who knows? The one thing about mescaline cacti is that they vary in potency far more than any other entheogen I have ever encountered. Ive had some cactuses that were 8 times stronger than other cactuses meaning 1 foot of one was equal to 8 ft of the other.

WIth that kind of variance, it is very difficult to tell someone how much to take. THe standard rule of thump is to start with a 12 inch cutting and work from there. Ive had many disapointing underwhelming cactus trips as well as four accidental overdoses that ended up being cosmic experiences.


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The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra


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InvisibleDustyBottoms
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Re: Your ideal mescaline dosage... [Re: Peyote Road]
    #23813401 - 11/08/16 05:05 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Peyote Road said:
Who knows? The one thing about mescaline cacti is that they vary in potency far more than any other entheogen I have ever encountered. Ive had some cactuses that were 8 times stronger than other cactuses meaning 1 foot of one was equal to 8 ft of the other.

WIth that kind of variance, it is very difficult to tell someone how much to take. THe standard rule of thump is to start with a 12 inch cutting and work from there. Ive had many disapointing underwhelming cactus trips as well as four accidental overdoses that ended up being cosmic experiences.




Hey dude...yeah I've heard the whole "start with 12 inches too" but I also hear that length doesnt mean shit, and that it's more about the dried weight.  But as I mentioned above, i give the dried weight (46g) and the wet length (24") and I was a little disappointed. 

As you say cactus can vary wildly, but I also was under the impression that Bridgesii was supposed to be the strongest and most reliable...is this BS?

That said, I'm still planning on taking it up to 75 dried grams...or approx 3 feet assuming they are the same size as the last ones I ordered.


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Invisibleconnectedcosmos
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Re: Your ideal mescaline dosage... [Re: DustyBottoms]
    #23813592 - 11/08/16 06:09 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Its just so highly variable, its hit or miss ive always tripped from 5 0g dried flesh, but potency varies so much, id shoot for 75 grams that should garuntee a trip


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54. The true nature of things is to be known personally , through the eyes of clear illumination and not through a sage : what the moon exactly is , is to be known with one's own eyes ; can another make him know it?


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Your ideal mescaline dosage... [Re: connectedcosmos]
    #23813650 - 11/08/16 06:25 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

This is another reason I favor extraction, though even then it varies quite a bit. I can tell you 400mg of an extract will be a good trip, but 400mg is not an exact dosage either because each extraction will always have a variable amount of mescaline in it. From what I have read synthetic mescaline has an average dose of 200mg where as extracts people commonly take 400-600mg.


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
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Registered: 11/12/11
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Re: Your ideal mescaline dosage... [Re: krypto2000]
    #23813667 - 11/08/16 06:30 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

400-700mg mescaline hcl


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


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InvisibleDustyBottoms
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Re: Your ideal mescaline dosage... [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #23813705 - 11/08/16 06:46 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Bill_Oreilly said:
400-700mg mescaline hcl




I realize this is a very tough question to answer but can you at least try...how many g of mescaline powder would this take to get that amount from using an alcohol extraction?


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Your ideal mescaline dosage... [Re: DustyBottoms]
    #23813785 - 11/08/16 07:14 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

80g


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InvisibleDustyBottoms
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Re: Your ideal mescaline dosage... [Re: krypto2000]
    #23813799 - 11/08/16 07:18 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

:high5miss:


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InvisibleGrey Fox

Registered: 01/22/15
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Re: Your ideal mescaline dosage... [Re: DustyBottoms]
    #23815740 - 11/09/16 09:55 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Sad thing is 2 feet of bridgesii contains enough alkaloids for 2 people to both have a strong trip. Best of luck with your future endeavors. I'm still trying to wrap my head around the whole extraction thing.


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IT WAS ALL A DREAM


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InvisibleDustyBottoms
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Re: Your ideal mescaline dosage... [Re: Grey Fox]
    #23816423 - 11/09/16 02:35 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Grey Fox said:
Sad thing is 2 feet of bridgesii contains enough alkaloids for 2 people to both have a strong trip. Best of luck with your future endeavors. I'm still trying to wrap my head around the whole extraction thing.




If that's truly the case I either had really weak cuttings, or very small cuttings.  Again, I don't think the length means a god damn thing does it?


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OfflineP.Zappatecorum
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Re: Your ideal mescaline dosage... [Re: DustyBottoms]
    #23816554 - 11/09/16 03:14 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

No. But that had to be weak bridgesii to have less than 1% mescaline. How much did you trip, what effects did you experience? Were there visuals, trippy head space etc. or just body effects? Knowing what you mean by being "underwhelmed" would be helpful. 

People generally say 400-600mg is a solid dose. Hard to know how much you got, but unless you have a real high natural tolerance 40g dry of some good strong bridgesii should have been enough to have a satisfying trip.  :shrug:


Edited by P.Zappatecorum (11/09/16 03:14 PM)


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OfflineShroomDoom
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Re: Your ideal mescaline dosage... [Re: P.Zappatecorum] * 1
    #23816923 - 11/09/16 05:17 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I say 400mg to 800mg is a desirable range for most to shoot for. Any less is a tease.

This came from 3 feet Bridgesii. 1.5 grams total



YMMV


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OfflineP.Zappatecorum
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Re: Your ideal mescaline dosage... [Re: ShroomDoom]
    #23817478 - 11/09/16 07:51 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ShroomDoom said:
I say 400mg to 800mg is a desirable range for most to shoot for. Any less is a tease.

This came from 3 feet Bridgesii. 1.5 grams total



YMMV



That looks tasty as fuck.
:heytheresexy:


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OfflinePandemoon
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Re: Your ideal mescaline dosage... [Re: P.Zappatecorum]
    #23818042 - 11/10/16 12:20 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Very tasty indeed! :thumbup:

There was this rather small bridgesii topcutting, very thin (1.5") and short, blowing my mind so hard! 8-10 inches have been stronger than any 4-5g mushroom trip I had so far.
I put it aside for almost a year, wrapped up in a towel. It grew some small roots along it's side during that time and dehydrated quite a bit. But wow what a trip!
Glad I saved the genetics and didn't eat the whole cutting.
So powerful, I cannot imagine accidently ingesting two feet of such a potent plant. Eversince I mix quite a few different speciemen into one single brew / tar / mix, to get rid of these variations.

And again, those needles look so nice! :ooo:

-


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InvisibleDustyBottoms
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Re: Your ideal mescaline dosage... [Re: ShroomDoom]
    #23818284 - 11/10/16 03:34 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ShroomDoom said:
I say 400mg to 800mg is a desirable range for most to shoot for. Any less is a tease.

This came from 3 feet Bridgesii. 1.5 grams total



YMMV




So what is this then?  Pure mescaline?  Sure as fuck doesn't look like those tar balls I had to swallow down. Did you use an a/b extraction?

Maybe that's what I need to do next time to insure I trip...???


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Your ideal mescaline dosage... [Re: DustyBottoms]
    #23818454 - 11/10/16 06:22 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

DustyBottoms said:
Quote:

ShroomDoom said:
I say 400mg to 800mg is a desirable range for most to shoot for. Any less is a tease.

This came from 3 feet Bridgesii. 1.5 grams total



YMMV




So what is this then?  Pure mescaline?  Sure as fuck doesn't look like those tar balls I had to swallow down. Did you use an a/b extraction?

Maybe that's what I need to do next time to insure I trip...???




https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23775827


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InvisibleGrey Fox

Registered: 01/22/15
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Re: Your ideal mescaline dosage... [Re: DustyBottoms]
    #23818720 - 11/10/16 08:28 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

DustyBottoms said:
If that's truly the case I either had really weak cuttings, or very small cuttings.  Again, I don't think the length means a god damn thing does it?




Bridgesii is pretty consistent in potency. Sure there is some variation between specimens and things like growing conditions and other factors matter, but with bridgesii you are generally guaranteed a solid dose at 12 inches unless the cutting is unusually scrawny or what not. While the 12 inch rule of thumb is certainly imperfect for guaranteeing a specific measurement of mescaline or alkaloid content, nevertheless 12 inches is a helpful standard in guaging the potency of a specific plant. In other words if someone has several different plants and always samples 12 inches of growth then that person gets a good feel over time for which plants are most potent. Of course young tip growth is not as potent as fat older growth, etc. But all those factors are taken into consideration. The point is that 12 inches is a very helpful standard for people who are actually interested in the PLANTS, not just in amassing tar and crystals.


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IT WAS ALL A DREAM


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InvisibleGrey Fox

Registered: 01/22/15
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Re: Your ideal mescaline dosage... [Re: Grey Fox]
    #23818737 - 11/10/16 08:38 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Once a potent plant is identified and grown with care in good conditions a 12 inch cutting will always be strong.


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IT WAS ALL A DREAM


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InvisibleGrey Fox

Registered: 01/22/15
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Re: Your ideal mescaline dosage... [Re: Grey Fox]
    #23818914 - 11/10/16 09:28 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

A high quality vendor should have already done all this work for the customer. And the reality is that most of the potent plants out there in circulation are bridgesii. Yes there are reports of very potent pachanoi out there but it seems like very few people have actually encountered that. Therefore the most reliable way to go right now is to order a 12 inch cutting of quality bridgesii from a quality vendor and just eat the thing, except for the skin and spines.


--------------------
IT WAS ALL A DREAM


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OfflineShroomDoom
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Re: Your ideal mescaline dosage... [Re: DustyBottoms]
    #23818991 - 11/10/16 09:46 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

DustyBottoms said:
Quote:

ShroomDoom said:
I say 400mg to 800mg is a desirable range for most to shoot for. Any less is a tease.

This came from 3 feet Bridgesii. 1.5 grams total



YMMV




So what is this then?  Pure mescaline?  Sure as fuck doesn't look like those tar balls I had to swallow down. Did you use an a/b extraction?

Maybe that's what I need to do next time to insure I trip...???



It's not pure mescaline it's mescaline and likely any other alkaloidal compounds in bridgesii that are grabbed when performing an STB extraction and still remaining in the following workup/recrystallization. You're getting the same thing in an alcohol extraction but also the tannins, waxes, terpenes, plant oils and other things that make it look like ball of tar.


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Offlinehealing
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Re: Your ideal mescaline dosage... [Re: Grey Fox]
    #23819226 - 11/10/16 10:47 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Grey Fox said:
Quote:

DustyBottoms said:
If that's truly the case I either had really weak cuttings, or very small cuttings.  Again, I don't think the length means a god damn thing does it?




Bridgesii is pretty consistent in potency. Sure there is some variation between specimens and things like growing conditions and other factors matter, but with bridgesii you are generally guaranteed a solid dose at 12 inches unless the cutting is unusually scrawny or what not.




That's only based on anecdotal evidence. There's not much scientific data about bridgesii, but what little bit of data there is does not support this claim.

http://sci-hub.cc/10.1016/j.jep.2010.07.021


--------------------
Open mind, open heart, open book.



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InvisibleGrey Fox

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Re: Your ideal mescaline dosage... [Re: healing]
    #23819924 - 11/10/16 02:08 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

There are reports of super potent pachanois out there, but bridgesii consistently outperforms pachanoi that people are actually buying online or finding in their local nurseries. It has long been speculated that bridgesii's powerful effects are coming from more than just the mescaline, i.e. other alkaloids or maoi's unique to bridgesii.


--------------------
IT WAS ALL A DREAM


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Offlinehealing
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Re: Your ideal mescaline dosage... [Re: Grey Fox]
    #23819962 - 11/10/16 02:22 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Grey Fox said:
There are reports of super potent pachanois out there, but bridgesii consistently outperforms pachanoi that people are actually buying online or finding in their local nurseries. It has long been speculated that bridgesii's powerful effects are coming from more than just the mescaline, i.e. other alkaloids or maoi's unique to bridgesii.




Unless you can provide a link to some research it's just anecdotal.


--------------------
Open mind, open heart, open book.



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Offlinestarfirexlove
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Re: Your ideal mescaline dosage... [Re: Grey Fox]
    #23819964 - 11/10/16 02:23 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Only done the HCl once, all I can say is 300mg wasn't enough. I think 500mg would be better. I'll get back to you on that one.


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InvisibleDustyBottoms
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Re: Your ideal mescaline dosage... [Re: krypto2000]
    #23820297 - 11/10/16 04:29 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
Quote:

DustyBottoms said:
Quote:

ShroomDoom said:
I say 400mg to 800mg is a desirable range for most to shoot for. Any less is a tease.

This came from 3 feet Bridgesii. 1.5 grams total



YMMV




So what is this then?  Pure mescaline?  Sure as fuck doesn't look like those tar balls I had to swallow down. Did you use an a/b extraction?

Maybe that's what I need to do next time to insure I trip...???




https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23775827




I'm very tempted to do this but I think I'm just going to try the alcohol extractions tek again but increase dosage and space it out.

I'm thinking 50g dried powder worth of tar, then waiting 60-90 mins and then eating another 25g dried powder worth of tar.

I'm drying out 48" right now :bigyesnod:


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InvisibleGrey Fox

Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 2,652
Re: Your ideal mescaline dosage... [Re: healing]
    #23820333 - 11/10/16 04:44 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

healing said:
Unless you can provide a link to some research it's just anecdotal.




See Trout's discussion of bridgesii in his 2013 publication The Cactus Alkaloids.  Here's the link: http://sacredcacti.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/CactusAlkaloids_2013.pdf

Specifically see page 101 where he goes in depth on bridgesii. "All forms said active in bioassays"... "In general it is a better choice for intensive propagation than are most pachanoi or peruvianus"... "occasional report as high as 2%"... "1.2% recovery"... "Isolation recovery values of 0.7 % & 1.16%"...

Yes there are reports of pachanoi with mescaline content as high as 5% however if you actually read through the literature it is clear that many of these reports are from older literature and/or instances in which the procedural methodology has been called into question.

Everyone knows that there are supposedly super potent pachanois in shamanic use deep in Ecuador somewhere...  Everyone also knows that here in the real world bridgesii is consistently the most active trich species available in trade.

Look I don't know that much about chemistry and I don't really care to know much about it either because it doesn't really matter.  When it comes down to it I keep seeing these posts on the Shroomery where people are trying to have a psychedelic experience with San Pedro cactus and it doesn't work out for them.  I think that's sad and it leaves me shaking my head.  It is very easy to have a strong psychedleic experience with trichocereus cactus.  All it takes is 12 inches of good bridgesii.  You despine it, chop it up, peel the skin off, and eat it.  It makes you trip hard everytime.


--------------------
IT WAS ALL A DREAM


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Offlinehealing
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Re: Your ideal mescaline dosage... [Re: Grey Fox]
    #23820405 - 11/10/16 05:19 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Grey Fox said:
Quote:

healing said:
Unless you can provide a link to some research it's just anecdotal.




See Trout's discussion of bridgesii in his 2013 publication The Cactus Alkaloids.  Here's the link: http://sacredcacti.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/CactusAlkaloids_2013.pdf

Specifically see page 101 where he goes in depth on bridgesii. "All forms said active in bioassays"... "In general it is a better choice for intensive propagation than are most pachanoi or peruvianus"... "occasional report as high as 2%"... "1.2% recovery"... "Isolation recovery values of 0.7 % & 1.16%"...

Yes there are reports of pachanoi with mescaline content as high as 5% however if you actually read through the literature it is clear that many of these reports are from older literature and/or instances in which the procedural methodology has been called into question.

Everyone knows that there are supposedly super potent pachanois in shamanic use deep in Ecuador somewhere...  Everyone also knows that here in the real world bridgesii is consistently the most active trich species available in trade.

Look I don't know that much about chemistry and I don't really care to know much about it either because it doesn't really matter.  When it comes down to it I keep seeing these posts on the Shroomery where people are trying to have a psychedelic experience with San Pedro cactus and it doesn't work out for them.  I think that's sad and it leaves me shaking my head.  It is very easy to have a strong psychedleic experience with trichocereus cactus.  All it takes is 12 inches of good bridgesii.  You despine it, chop it up, peel the skin off, and eat it.  It makes you trip hard everytime.




It's fine to say that you believe that bridgesii tends to be more consistently potent than san pedro. I'm not disputing that many people believe this.

Your own source has evidence of a dried bridgesii cactus with mescaline content at 0.18%, so it's possible that while a higher percentage of bridgesii cacti are potent, there are still some that are not.

That's the whole point of this discussion. Not to say, "Bridgesii sucks." I would personally choose bridgesii if I were to consume a cactus. It's just that this particular person seems to have found one of the cacti that does in fact have low alkaloid content. That's the context of the conversation.


--------------------
Open mind, open heart, open book.



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OfflineP.Zappatecorum
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Re: Your ideal mescaline dosage... [Re: healing]
    #23820415 - 11/10/16 05:23 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

healing said:
It's fine to say that you believe that bridgesii tends to be more consistently potent than san pedro. I'm not disputing that many people believe this.

Your own source has evidence of a dried bridgesii cactus with mescaline content at 0.18%, so it's possible that while a higher percentage of bridgesii cacti are potent, there are still some that are not.

That's the whole point of this discussion. Not to say, "Bridgesii sucks." I would personally choose bridgesii if I were to consume a cactus. It's just that this particular person seems to have found one of the cacti that does in fact have low alkaloid content. That's the context of the conversation.



Alkaloid content also depend on age. Could have been a young, fresh tip, they generally are pretty weak until a couple of seasons has gone by IME.


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Offlinepinedownpioneer
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Re: Your ideal mescaline dosage... [Re: P.Zappatecorum]
    #23820648 - 11/10/16 06:31 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

300mg is good times all around without getting deep head space, perfect for 1st timers diving into the psychedelics or those times you want to stay functional and active.  Definitely has a great vibe and some nice 'tidal vision'. Dose sunrise at the beach and by sunset you'll be good to make your way home all while capturing stellar sunrise and sunset sky..the fish you catch in the mean time are definitely not the same as baseline. (everyone is different though so take that into account before you attempt or think you can drive) 300mg of off white xtals so other alkloids included. Two of which give effects (so I've read) probally others in the cacti as well. 500mg is good Swim prefers not to wash already formed off color xtals as to not lose these.  If oils/fats carry over they might be washed or just be rolled into balls put in a capsule then top off with xtals depending on how swim feels.  500mg is where things start to really get interesting.
With PC cuts enough can be utilized to produced mind blowing effects.


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InvisibleDustyBottoms
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Re: Your ideal mescaline dosage... [Re: pinedownpioneer]
    #23832877 - 11/14/16 04:39 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)



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