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Invisibleblacksabbathrulz
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another peyote question
    #2381248 - 02/26/04 11:19 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Is this a williamsii or a diffusa, or is impossible to tell? Sorry for asking so many questions here.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2383387199&category=2033


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InvisibleHarveyWalbanger
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Re: another peyote question [Re: blacksabbathrulz]
    #2381285 - 02/26/04 11:29 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Eh, pink flowers.... first glance, I'd say it's a good bet they're LWs....


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Invisibleblacksabbathrulz
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Re: another peyote question [Re: HarveyWalbanger]
    #2381325 - 02/26/04 11:42 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

does anyone know of any good books pertaining to peyote cacti or links that are specific to them?


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Invisibleeric_the_red
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Re: another peyote question [Re: blacksabbathrulz]
    #2381378 - 02/26/04 11:56 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

go to erowid and check out their peyote section.
they have a lot of pics and articles.

edit:
after checking that pic out on my bro's computer screen, i must say i don't know what it is. the lines aren't as strong as they appeared to be on my screen.


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InvisibleHarveyWalbanger
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Re: another peyote question [Re: blacksabbathrulz]
    #2381382 - 02/26/04 11:57 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

basic crap you might've read before....


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InvisibleDieCommie
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Re: another peyote question [Re: blacksabbathrulz]
    #2381390 - 02/27/04 12:00 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

They look like LWs. I just ordered this and i hope there LWs.


-edit- Looks they added to the page and they in fact arnt williamsii, they are Lophophora Koehresii.


Edited by Qubit (02/27/04 12:15 PM)


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Offlinethe man
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Re: another peyote question [Re: DieCommie]
    #2381401 - 02/27/04 12:03 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

i dont think it is. the roots are really different. might contain mescaline but its not a strait up LW.

peace


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InvisibleHarveyWalbanger
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Re: another peyote question [Re: blacksabbathrulz]
    #2382113 - 02/27/04 07:34 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The nook people are quite good at cactus idents, I'd go post there if you wanted some second opinions....


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Offlinepoppy_smirf
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Re: another peyote question [Re: blacksabbathrulz]
    #2384717 - 02/27/04 09:17 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

to my knowledge there are 3 different lophs, the williamii, the diffusa and the Koehresii.

but i have been wrong before, good luck


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InvisibleVoodoo
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Re: another peyote question [Re: poppy_smirf]
    #2386480 - 02/28/04 01:39 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

It depends on who you talk to. :lol:

Some say that there are only two varieties, some say there are many. One website in particular sells these varieties.

Lophophora williamsii

var Cardona

var Cuatrocienegas

var decipiens

var Huizache

var La Paloma

var Mazapil, Zac

var Paila

var Parras

var Rinconata

var San Antonio

var Tecolote

var texana

var texensis

var Villa Arista

var weisse Bluete

Lophophora diffusa

var Koehresii

Lophophora fricii

var albiflora

That list is far from inclusive of all the varieties Iv seen for sale.

You can see that even they only devide them up into three categories though. Williamsii, diffusa, and fricci. Cacti identification and classification is a touchy subject even with people "in the know." But if youd like opinions from people that have written books on the subject, The Nook is a good place to talk to them. :wink:


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Offlinemile69
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Re: another peyote question [Re: blacksabbathrulz]
    #2387505 - 02/28/04 10:52 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

its defenately not a williamsii. im 99% sure its a type of diffusa...there is some but almost no mescaline in that plant. so it would be more for ornamental purposes...plus its one of the rarer types. lovely plants too!


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Anonymous

Re: another peyote question [Re: Voodoo]
    #2388383 - 02/29/04 09:15 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

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Anonymous

Re: another peyote question [Re: mile69]
    #2388394 - 02/29/04 09:21 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

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Offlinemile69
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Re: another peyote question [Re: ]
    #2389151 - 02/29/04 07:56 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

i love you MM :grin: :thumbup: :grin:


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: another peyote question [Re: blacksabbathrulz]
    #2389639 - 02/29/04 11:37 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Check out this site:
http://www.lophophora.net/dist.htm
I don't know much about visually IDing cacti, but I'm pretty sure that L. koehresii is a seperate species from L. diffusa, although based on what I've read they're very similar chemically and in other respects. Members of a species have to be able to interbreed freely in nature, and the diagram on that page clearly shows why individuals of L. diffusa and L. koehresii (described on the page as L. viridescens) can't do this: their ranges are seperated by about 50 kilometers.

So, assuming the map is correct (and assuming also that L. williamsii and L. fricii can't or don't interbreed for a reason other than geographical seperation, since their ranges appear to touch), there are (at least) four species of peyote:
L. williamsii
L. diffusa
L. koeresii (or L. viridescens, depending on who you talk to)
L. fricii
Another page on the same site shows pollen grains of the different species, although I don't know what the deal is with the L. viridescens one, as it looks nothing like the other pics (and also doesn't look like any pictures of pollen I've seen before.) Anyway, they do all look fairly distinct from each other.

Anyway, from what I gather, L. koeresii is pretty much the same chemically as L. diffusa: it's active, but contains little mescaline.


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Offlinemile69
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Re: another peyote question [Re: ]
    #2395662 - 03/02/04 05:03 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

email or pm me mm. i need to talk to you!:)


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InvisibleVoodoo
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Re: another peyote question [Re: psi]
    #2396860 - 03/03/04 02:46 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

"Lophophora diffusa var. koehresii

This generally accepted L. diffusa variety from San Luis Potosi grows immediately south of L. williamsii and north of L. diffusa. It has pink to cream flowers and unlike the somewhat wider flower petals of L. diffusa and L. williamsii, this variety has unusually thin petals.

Though some support L. diffusa var. koehresii as a variation of L. williamsii due to a number of chemical similarities, the higher ratios of pellotine to mescaline give support for its inclusion in L. diffusa. It may be possible that L. diffusa var. koehresii is an independent species, and intermediary, or a naturally occurring hybrid, but such speculation requires further botanical study.

Synonyms include Lophophora sp. San Luis Potosi, L. sp. Rio Verde, L. viridescens, and L. diffusa subspecies viridescens. Anderson clearly places L. diffusa var. koehresii and all synonyms within L. diffusa without differentation."

M.S.S.

There are 13 chemicals present, the majority being pellotine. :wink:


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OfflineAgarico
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Re: another peyote question [Re: Voodoo]
    #2401145 - 03/04/04 03:17 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Voodoo said:i

var Cardona

var Cuatrocienegas
......





Those seeds come from cacti that have been collected at a specific place, it's like a field number or a dog's "pedigree".
Each of them (should) have little morphological differences :smile2:

If you buy straight "unspecified" williamsii, you spend less and get higher germination rate; tested myself  :thumbup:


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InvisibleVoodoo
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Re: another peyote question [Re: Agarico]
    #2401368 - 03/04/04 05:43 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Iv had great success lately with seeds from the Netherlands, but not so much with seeds from Germany. I seriously doubt it has anything to do with how generic they are. :wink: But the WERE both very cheap. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


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