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InvisibleGaspard
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Does a 6 months old pachanoi have any mescaline?
    #23808499 - 11/07/16 02:42 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

How many of them would be necessary to make a tea?


Edited by Gaspard (11/07/16 02:50 AM)


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OfflineLSoares
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Re: Does a 6 months old cactus have any mescaline? [Re: Gaspard]
    #23808504 - 11/07/16 02:49 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

If you are really good at growing them and get the equivalent of a 1cm diameter plant in 6 months, I would say roughly 2100 (considering a 6cm diameter, 30cm long cutting is enough for tripping).


--------------------
Z. in sunny Lisbon, Portugal
Cactus grower particularly fond of north american miniatures.
http://jardineiroazelha.blogspot.pt/

Sowing cacti - my way!
Random pictures of my collection.
Photographing cacti, Z's way.


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InvisibleGaspard
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Re: Does a 6 months old cactus have any mescaline? [Re: LSoares]
    #23808516 - 11/07/16 03:06 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

LSoares said:
If you are really good at growing them and get the equivalent of a 1cm diameter plant in 6 months, I would say roughly 2100 (considering a 6cm diameter, 30cm long cutting is enough for tripping).





You could be wrong, until someone try it, that's nothing but speculation.

Do you have any scientific source stating the alkaloid content at this stage?

My intuition says the smaller they are the more concentrated the alkaloids are.


I bet someone would trip balls if they ate like 10 of them


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OfflineSpanishfly
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Re: Does a 6 months old cactus have any mescaline? [Re: Gaspard]
    #23808533 - 11/07/16 03:37 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

LOL, LSoares has a reputation in this forum for knowing his stuff !!!


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I am currently BANNED from using Private Messages - so can anyone who wants to contact me do it via my Journal thread.  Link is https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23831115

Maybe some mod or whatever might think this has now been long enough.


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OfflineLSoares
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Re: Does a 6 months old cactus have any mescaline? [Re: Gaspard]
    #23808543 - 11/07/16 03:44 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Gaspard said:
You could be wrong, until someone try it, that's nothing but speculation.



Absolutely.

Quote:

Gaspard said:Do you have any scientific source stating the alkaloid content at this stage?
My intuition says the smaller they are the more concentrated the alkaloids are.



You must be a very religious person.

Quote:

Gaspard said:I bet someone would trip balls if they ate like 10 of them



Don't bet too high.

That'll teach to choose more carefully which questions to answer...


--------------------
Z. in sunny Lisbon, Portugal
Cactus grower particularly fond of north american miniatures.
http://jardineiroazelha.blogspot.pt/

Sowing cacti - my way!
Random pictures of my collection.
Photographing cacti, Z's way.


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InvisibleMostly_HarmlessM
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Re: Does a 6 months old cactus have any mescaline? [Re: LSoares]
    #23808561 - 11/07/16 04:09 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I don't know which study is being referenced, naum mentioned this a few years back:

Quote:

naum said:
There was an unofficial study recently where the mescaline content of Trichocereus hybrid seedlings was determined using instrumentation. They were about the same age and height as your if I remember correctly. The study showed that they contained concentrations of mescaline in the range that mature cuttings do.

I'd imagine 400-800 g of fresh flesh should do the trick. Maybe someone with more experience in consuming bridgesii cuttings could tell you a more accurate mass for a dose.





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Invisiblemodern.shaman
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Re: Does a 6 months old cactus have any mescaline? [Re: LSoares]
    #23808564 - 11/07/16 04:13 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

You need to remember that only the weight of the green flesh would contain mescaline so you would need around 1000-2000 6 month old to get any effect assuming around .5 gram each seedling(probably less) Most seedling that young are still tiny and would be a waste as they double in size each year.

Quoted by MH
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/16057192#16057192


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OfflineWeAreMushroom
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Re: Does a 6 months old cactus have any mescaline? [Re: LSoares] * 1
    #23808567 - 11/07/16 04:14 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Alkaloids in Pachanoi accumulate as the cactus ages, usually stress increases alkaloid production. In the case of a six month old cacti, it isn't very old and hasn't had much time to accumulate desirable alkaloids, nor has it experienced much stress in it's short life to increase it's already meager alkaloid production.

My suspicion is that you would need many, many tiny six month pachanois to even make a tea, which would have little to no effect anyway because there aren't many alkaloids in them yet. You'd probably just end up with a stomachache. :shrug:

Go take giant dab and wait for that cactus to get bigger, OP.


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InvisibleMostly_HarmlessM
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Re: Does a 6 months old cactus have any mescaline? [Re: WeAreMushroom]
    #23808572 - 11/07/16 04:18 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

A 5cm by 2cm seedling weighs ~12g, sample plucked at random.
That 12g could dry to as little as half a gram. Younger plants dry to less than an older plant, by ratio.
Assume a 5% wet to dry ratio, some might give more. 40 like that should be sufficient to find out if they are active at that size.
Core and spines will probably be no more than of the wet weight.

If concentrations are highest in the outer flesh just below the waxy layer, and young plants prove to contain comparable levels of mescaline to a mature cutting, then young plants will yield a greater amount of that outer flesh?


--------------------
●  EG Rules and Guidelines ● 


|| Lophophora Growers Unite! || Trichocereus Growers Unite! || Stone Eaters - A Soil Revolution ||


You must gather your party before venturing forth.


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InvisibleMostly_HarmlessM
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Re: Does a 6 months old cactus have any mescaline? [Re: WeAreMushroom]
    #23808590 - 11/07/16 04:34 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

WeAreMushroom said:
Alkaloids in Pachanoi accumulate as the cactus ages, usually stress increases alkaloid production.




The stress myth has never been substantiated afaik. Would a nutrient and water starved cactus waste resources producing extra alkaloids? If it is produced as a defensive mechanism, a more fleshy healthy cactus is a choicer target for grazers, so that would be when more alkaloids would serve better, and the resources more abundantly available.

Also there might be a seasonal variation, I recall a study on lophs, light wavelengths, and alkaloid levels.

From experience, bridgesii are certainly active at 2ft tall from seed.


--------------------
●  EG Rules and Guidelines ● 


|| Lophophora Growers Unite! || Trichocereus Growers Unite! || Stone Eaters - A Soil Revolution ||


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OfflineLSoares
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Re: Does a 6 months old cactus have any mescaline? [Re: Mostly_Harmless]
    #23808593 - 11/07/16 04:36 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mostly_Harmless said:
If concentrations are highest in the outer flesh just below the waxy layer, and young plants prove to contain comparable levels of mescaline to a mature cutting, then young plants will yield a greater amount of that outer flesh?



If you consider mescaline concentration is more a function of surface area than volume, then yes. For a comparable volume to that of a 30cm cutting, the number of seedlings would have ~9 times more surface area.

(I'm assuming 6 m.o. seedlings to be spheres 1cm in diameter and cuttings to be the equivalent to a 6cm diameter cylinder)


--------------------
Z. in sunny Lisbon, Portugal
Cactus grower particularly fond of north american miniatures.
http://jardineiroazelha.blogspot.pt/

Sowing cacti - my way!
Random pictures of my collection.
Photographing cacti, Z's way.


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Invisiblemodern.shaman
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Re: Does a 6 months old cactus have any mescaline? [Re: Mostly_Harmless]
    #23808603 - 11/07/16 04:54 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

The thickness of that green outer flesh is very thin in seedlings

I guess someone would need to take this out of theoretical and attempt it. I highly doubt less then a few hundred would yield any result.

MH lets go back to your weight. Lets assume each is 12 grams and with 1/4 being flesh only(I think that is high). 5% dry is .15 g each. At 1% content that is 1.5 mg each so 67 would do the trick FOR THRESHOLD of 100mg mescaline. BUT 1% is pretty high for bridgesii although a full spectrum might work.

But 6 months are likely only a fraction of that size yours sound closer to a year. MH try cutting just the green flesh from that seedling and dry it... I'm really interested now.


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InvisibleGaspard
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Re: Does a 6 months old cactus have any mescaline? [Re: Mostly_Harmless]
    #23808624 - 11/07/16 05:16 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mostly_Harmless said:
I don't know which study is being referenced, naum mentioned this a few years back:

Quote:

naum said:
There was an unofficial study recently where the mescaline content of Trichocereus hybrid seedlings was determined using instrumentation. They were about the same age and height as your if I remember correctly. The study showed that they contained concentrations of mescaline in the range that mature cuttings do.

I'd imagine 400-800 g of fresh flesh should do the trick. Maybe someone with more experience in consuming bridgesii cuttings could tell you a more accurate mass for a dose.









This study says everything

Considering the san pedro average dose is 50 grams of dried flesh, how many 6 months old  cacti would be necessary to obtain 50 grams? 25 cacti maybe?

I have enough space to plant hundreds


Edited by Gaspard (11/07/16 05:42 AM)


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InvisibleMostly_HarmlessM
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Re: Does a 6 months old cactus have any mescaline? [Re: Gaspard]
    #23808699 - 11/07/16 06:28 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Gaspard said:
Quote:

Mostly_Harmless said:
I don't know which study is being referenced, naum mentioned this a few years back:

Quote:

naum said:
There was an unofficial study recently where the mescaline content of Trichocereus hybrid seedlings was determined using instrumentation. They were about the same age and height as your if I remember correctly. The study showed that they contained concentrations of mescaline in the range that mature cuttings do.

I'd imagine 400-800 g of fresh flesh should do the trick. Maybe someone with more experience in consuming bridgesii cuttings could tell you a more accurate mass for a dose.









This study says everything

Considering the san pedro average dose is 50 grams of dried flesh, how many 6 months old  cacti would be necessary to obtain 50 grams? 25 cacti maybe?

I have enough space to plant hundreds





The proof of the pudding is in the eating :smile:

Most all in this thread is theory, conjecture, anecdote.

6 month old trichs could be 1-3" tall depending on your growing conditions, genetics. Bridgesii is perhaps the most consistent in being a good mescaline producer so might be a good choice to go with from seed. The variability of the others throws up more chance of good batches, bad batches, and so on. But that is more theory and conjecture :laugh:


--------------------
●  EG Rules and Guidelines ● 


|| Lophophora Growers Unite! || Trichocereus Growers Unite! || Stone Eaters - A Soil Revolution ||


You must gather your party before venturing forth.


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Invisibleferrel_human
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Re: Does a 6 months old cactus have any mescaline? [Re: Mostly_Harmless]
    #23808704 - 11/07/16 06:32 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Why would grow seedlings amd them consume them when ebay sells cuttings for reasonable price. Some people. :rolleyes:


--------------------
Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely.
-Karode


Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade


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OfflineInmate1
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Re: Does a 6 months old cactus have any mescaline? [Re: Gaspard] * 1
    #23808716 - 11/07/16 06:40 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Murdering all those babies just to try and catch a lil buzz, do people like this actually  exist?
Green lives matter!


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Invisibleferrel_human
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Re: Does a 6 months old cactus have any mescaline? [Re: Inmate1]
    #23808735 - 11/07/16 06:49 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Inmate1 said:
Murdering all those babies just to try and catch a lil buzz, do people like this actually  exist?
Green lives matter!




There you go. Thats the spirit. Green lives matter :ohyou:


--------------------
Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely.
-Karode


Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade


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InvisibleGaspard
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Re: Does a 6 months old cactus have any mescaline? [Re: Inmate1]
    #23808850 - 11/07/16 08:17 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Inmate1 said:
Murdering all those babies just to try and catch a lil buzz, do people like this actually  exist?
Green lives matter!




they will keep growing back


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Invisibleferrel_human
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Re: Does a 6 months old cactus have any mescaline? [Re: Gaspard]
    #23808873 - 11/07/16 08:26 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Gaspard said:
Quote:

Inmate1 said:
Murdering all those babies just to try and catch a lil buzz, do people like this actually  exist?
Green lives matter!




they will keep growing back




Slower. Slower. Slower.


--------------------
Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely.
-Karode


Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade


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OfflineInmate1
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Re: Does a 6 months old cactus have any mescaline? [Re: ferrel_human]
    #23808985 - 11/07/16 09:12 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ferrel_human said:
Quote:

Inmate1 said:
Murdering all those babies just to try and catch a lil buzz, do people like this actually  exist?
Green lives matter!




There you go. Thats the spirit. Green lives matter :ohyou:



Hey there FH , it's been awhile. I just got out last week and I'm having problems getting my username back (Urb), hopefully some mod will show me some love eventually and help me out. I should be getting my collection back this week also. My moms been taking care of my babies while I was in.


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