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InvisibleComebackKid
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Proper SFD lid preperation
    #23804248 - 11/05/16 06:19 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Just bought some plastic lids for grain spawn and want to move on from MP tape.

When I look around on shroomery, I see a lot of pepole with 29mm SFD filters fixed to the top of their lids with RTV silicone.

After a little research I found some people prefer to use the 70mm (regular) or 90mm (wide) SFD filters fixed to the inside of their jar lids rather than on top.

I've heard that fixing them to the inside of the plastic lid may be the best method because the SFD also acts as a gasket.
But there are conflicting theories that suggest moisture way leach contaminants through the filter disk.

Before I order my SFDs does anybody have any thoughts on which method is the most effective and why?


--------------------
:amanita2: Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care :sporedrop:

Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind.
Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind,
is peering in from outside the universe.

Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself


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OfflinePsilosoulful

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Re: Proper SFD lid preperation [Re: ComebackKid]
    #23804412 - 11/05/16 07:02 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

To be completely honest, you can skip the SFD's and just loosen the lids instead to supply adequate GE. Try this tek :thumbup:


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Invisibledankington
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Re: Proper SFD lid preperation [Re: Psilosoulful]
    #23804843 - 11/05/16 09:22 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Inside the lids works pretty well. The great thing about SFDs is that they don't stay moist long, and remain functional even when wet. That's why you might notice some threads showing grain/PC prep, the people don't put foil on their jar lids.

I've started using whole disks under plastic lids with about 3/8" hole in the center of the lid. I like this setup a lot and will probably fit all my grain lids this way.

Though unmodded lids work, I don't recommend them unless you're in a pinch and take the necessary precautions to make them work reliably.


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InvisibleComebackKid
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Re: Proper SFD lid preperation [Re: dankington]
    #23804915 - 11/05/16 09:44 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks for the info dank. I think I'm going to go with inside the lid based on what you said. Do they need to be fixed with RTV like you would do if you were fixing them on top?


--------------------
:amanita2: Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care :sporedrop:

Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind.
Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind,
is peering in from outside the universe.

Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself


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Invisibledankington
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Re: Proper SFD lid preperation [Re: ComebackKid]
    #23804981 - 11/05/16 10:12 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

If you are putting the SFD under the lid, then silicone is unnecessary.


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InvisiblePirateSwazey
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Re: Proper SFD lid preperation [Re: Psilosoulful]
    #23805243 - 11/06/16 01:10 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

RR always recommended keeping the filter discs whole to maintain their integrity. I think it is better to do this mostly because if you use RTV silicone, especially on plastic lids, they will eventually come off or have a weak seal making and sneaky contams will get in.

I would suggest either using a 1 piece metal lid with the filter under the lid, or the metal rings and bands they come with, lid gasket side up (for easy removal at inoculation), putting the filter on top of the lid & under the ring.

Plastic lids look pretty but they expand during PC cycles, and you have to crank them down when you go to pull them out of the cooker. Then when they cool off they shrink and sometimes get super tight, making it a real pain in the ass to take off when you need to. I've never seen a professional mushroom farm use them.

My 2 cents  :feelsoldman:

Quote:

Psilosoulful said:
To be completely honest, you can skip the SFD's and just loosen the lids instead to supply adequate GE. Try this tek :thumbup:



Bad tek.


--------------------
 

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InvisibleTheEaglesGift
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Re: Proper SFD lid preperation [Re: PirateSwazey]
    #23805366 - 11/06/16 03:53 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I switched to plastic lids last year and I've had good luck. I don't ever tighten them when hot, that's very important.

I will not go back to metal if I can avoid it. Rusted lids that want to jam up in the middle of a g2g drives me insane.

SFDs work well, obviously. For what it's worth I use a square layer of postal tyvek over a hole with 3-4 layers of micropore tape securing it down.


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InvisiblePirateSwazey
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Re: Proper SFD lid preperation [Re: TheEaglesGift]
    #23805514 - 11/06/16 07:16 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I just toss the rusted lids or bands when they get that way so I never have to use them :shrug:


--------------------
 

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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Proper SFD lid preperation [Re: TheEaglesGift]
    #23805517 - 11/06/16 07:18 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

PirateSwazey said:
Quote:

Psilosoulful said:
To be completely honest, you can skip the SFD's and just loosen the lids instead to supply adequate GE. Try this tek :thumbup:



Bad tek.



:thefuckisthis:

Sorry pasty.  Your tek is bad.

Quote:

TheEaglesGift said:
I switched to plastic lids last year and I've had good luck. I don't ever tighten them when hot, that's very important.

I will not go back to metal if I can avoid it. Rusted lids that want to jam up in the middle of a g2g drives me insane.

SFDs work well, obviously. For what it's worth I use a square layer of postal tyvek over a hole with 3-4 layers of micropore tape securing it down.




:thumbup:

I score the fuck out of the plastic lid with a blade, and silicone a SFD circle to it.  None of them have come loose so far.


--------------------
                            :rainbowdrink: Tea doesn't work?                            AMU  (Q & A)                  Grain prep for Intergalactic Space Oats :pes:     

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Offlineblackout
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Re: Proper SFD lid preperation [Re: TheEaglesGift]
    #23805538 - 11/06/16 07:30 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TheEaglesGift said:
I switched to plastic lids last year and I've had good luck. I don't ever tighten them when hot, that's very important.



+1, the plastic will become pliable when hot and when it cools it will set in that position. If you tighten hard its under force and once hot it will yield to that force and deform.

Quote:

TheEaglesGift said:
I will not go back to metal if I can avoid it. Rusted lids that want to jam up in the middle of a g2g drives me insane.



I'm surprised I do not hear of more people using stainless steel lids. Actually can't remember seeing anyone mention it, but they are out there.


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Invisiblefilthyknees
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Re: Proper SFD lid preperation [Re: Inocuole]
    #23805582 - 11/06/16 07:48 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I keep my sfds whole like they're ment to be used. I also use a gas exchange hole if that needs to be mentioned in a thread titled "proper sfd lid preparation".


--------------------
But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go
If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow
That it's one thing to try and another to fly
You get there quicker just a step at a time
It's one thing to bark, another to bite
The show ain't over till you pack up at night


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InvisiblePirateSwazey
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Re: Proper SFD lid preperation [Re: Inocuole]
    #23805666 - 11/06/16 08:18 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

It is bad. He basically says that himself at the end...

I'm sorry I'm just tired of seeing my friends who follow all these "meta" teks failing.

A large majority of the shit going around today is just garbage.


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Proper SFD lid preperation [Re: PirateSwazey] * 3
    #23805748 - 11/06/16 08:51 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

A large majority of the shit going around here is the stopping of garbage spreading, not garbage IMO. No offense but I haven't seen you do enough to say the majority here is garbage. If pasty thought it was garbage, and the reason for people to fail, he wouldn't have made the tek, and had a huge 10+ page discussion on it.

Your friends are failing because they can't have clean spawn. Last I checked tons of people do that method and get clean spawn, so I'd tell them to hit the drawing board, and figure out why they can't have clean spawn instead of blaming the shroomery.

I'm pretty sure at the end he was saying it isn't better than having filters, not that it's a bad tek and garbage. Ya know, to avoid controversy.


--------------------
contam and car window art
How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

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Edited by Mad Season (11/06/16 09:02 AM)


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Invisiblefilthyknees
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Re: Proper SFD lid preperation [Re: Mad Season] * 1
    #23805787 - 11/06/16 09:07 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Take a lesson from pirate. He knows this shit better than 99.9% and saying otherwise does the community a disservice.

Trust me I work for this guy, you're lucky he shares his opinion especially when met with uncalled for flak

Ps we already made out


--------------------
But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go
If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow
That it's one thing to try and another to fly
You get there quicker just a step at a time
It's one thing to bark, another to bite
The show ain't over till you pack up at night


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Proper SFD lid preperation [Re: filthyknees] * 2
    #23805803 - 11/06/16 09:13 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I'm sorry I base a character off what he says, not who works for him. And when he says a large majority of the shit going around today is garbage, yet rarely posts, then I have a fuckin problem, especially for those who have the results to back their claims, put in the hard work to have those results, and then put in more work to spread the success of those results to others. It's a lot of work, and retardedly insulting when someone says that work is garbage.


--------------------
contam and car window art
How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Proper SFD lid preperation [Re: Mad Season] * 1
    #23805804 - 11/06/16 09:14 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

:nodofunderstanding:


--------------------
                            :rainbowdrink: Tea doesn't work?                            AMU  (Q & A)                  Grain prep for Intergalactic Space Oats :pes:     

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Invisiblefilthyknees
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Re: Proper SFD lid preperation [Re: Inocuole]
    #23805830 - 11/06/16 09:23 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I prefer the opinions of board whores


--------------------
But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go
If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow
That it's one thing to try and another to fly
You get there quicker just a step at a time
It's one thing to bark, another to bite
The show ain't over till you pack up at night


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Proper SFD lid preperation [Re: filthyknees]
    #23805835 - 11/06/16 09:25 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I prefer the opinions of lackeys

Are we done here?


--------------------
contam and car window art
How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.


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Invisiblefilthyknees
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Re: Proper SFD lid preperation [Re: Mad Season] * 1
    #23805845 - 11/06/16 09:30 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I didn't get off yet, you?


--------------------
But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go
If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow
That it's one thing to try and another to fly
You get there quicker just a step at a time
It's one thing to bark, another to bite
The show ain't over till you pack up at night


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InvisiblePirateSwazey
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Re: Proper SFD lid preperation [Re: Mad Season]
    #23805858 - 11/06/16 09:34 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

There is a completely legitimate reason I don't post a lot... We'll just have leave that there for now.

I mean no insults to Pasty, we've had a few private conversations over the years and I'm sure he knows that I respect him as a cultivator... Who wouldn't? But my opinions on some of his methods are just that. My opinions :shrug:


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Proper SFD lid preperation [Re: PirateSwazey]
    #23805897 - 11/06/16 09:43 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Ok here's why it works. Unlike a regular metal jar lid, a plastic jar lid is one piece. The only opening of it is the underside lip. If a spore were to go into the contents of the jar, it'd have to defy gravity, or have a strong enough current to push it in. Unless there's like a gentle breeze on your jars at all times, pasty's plastic lid tek is good.

Still air boxes are kinda similar, there's never a perfect seal on the bottom when it's flipped upside down, but we never have to worry because the spores would have to defy gravity to go under the lip then up into the contents of our work area.

And when I say you don't post I meant you don't like post a tek that proves your claims on the majority of shit is garbage, or post to correct garbage information. That's what I aim to do when I see garbage, and I rarely feel the majority of it is garbage.


--------------------
contam and car window art
How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.


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Offlineblackout
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Re: Proper SFD lid preperation [Re: Mad Season]
    #23806548 - 11/06/16 01:07 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

PirateSwazey said:
I'm sorry I'm just tired of seeing my friends who follow all these "meta" teks failing.

A large majority of the shit going around today is just garbage.





Quote:

Mad Season said:And when I say you don't post I meant you don't like post a tek that proves your claims on the majority of shit is garbage, or post to correct garbage information.



I would also like to hear any suggestions, improvements or corrections too. I would also like to hear more clarification on the blunt claims, e.g. "large majority" to me would infer 70%+, and would infer it meaning posts claiming to be "teks" from the first quote, and so people reading it might think "this guy thinks 70% of teks in the last 3 years will lead to failure while old ones will not". In pasty's lid thread I mentioned the use of plastic bags, which I use on regular filtered jars too, especially in the first stages i.e. a contribution that I think might help it, which might be suitable for some people.

Is he suggesting that older posts are more worthwhile reading than todays? which could be inferred from the post. Many are telling people to filter out old results, but IMO there are loads of old posts and some very old publications which are very worthwhile reading, that includes stuff over 100 years old.

We need more info to determine what is meant. Its like some random thread on a food forum saying "Heinz ketchup is going cheap, only $1 for a small bottle" and some hit & run post saying "Heinz ketchup is garbage" and having to make several more posts to get the poster to reveal they actually hate all ketchup in general, or that they buy it in 10 gallon drums and do not consider it a good price.


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Proper SFD lid preperation [Re: blackout] * 1
    #23806563 - 11/06/16 01:12 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

The idea is that if something from that time were excessively important to know, then discussion of it would have come up about it again fairly recently.  Obviously some tidbits can be lost that way but we also weed out a lot of silly crap.  It's a trade off, but right now I don't know of a better system other than generalizing about old posts and then manually pointing out those that are the exception.


--------------------
                            :rainbowdrink: Tea doesn't work?                            AMU  (Q & A)                  Grain prep for Intergalactic Space Oats :pes:     

Coir-ca-cola
Jokes are funny until they're about you


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Offlineblackout
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Re: Proper SFD lid preperation [Re: PirateSwazey]
    #23806685 - 11/06/16 01:48 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Inocuole said:
The idea is that if something from that time were excessively important to know, then discussion of it would have come up about it again fairly recently.



I get the idea behind it. It's more that complete newbies reading posts like this...

Quote:

PirateSwazey said:
A large majority of the shit going around today is just garbage.




...might think the newly posted stuff is the stuff to be ignored, and so pay more attention to older teks, which are possibly not recommended anymore. On the flip-side I do not like this term "outdated" I see mentioned a lot, it is either shite or not, be it written yesterday or 100 years ago, some "outdated" techniques might still suit growers more than others. Many are far too self centered on their own setups and are blind to the advantages of alternatives that may not be beneficial to them at all.

Discussion about worthwhile topics may not have come up again either, many worthy theories & topics are suppressed for various reasons. I spend a lot of time reading very old posts.


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InvisiblePirateSwazey
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Re: Proper SFD lid preperation [Re: blackout]
    #23808218 - 11/06/16 10:13 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

It's not necessarily a "this tek will lead to failure" thing to me, it's more of a "right tool for the job" ideology, and any craftsman will tell you having the right tools makes a big difference in their work. While I wouldn't point anyone to a lot of these teks, great improvements have been made through some of them at the same time... mostly as a result of Pasty's agar tek. As you all remember it wasn't but a 3 or 4 years ago that very few people started out with agar - and now it is common practice. That's awesome! But... on the other side of the coin, using the PP5 containers for agar plates indefinitely is not a great practice IMO. So I try to see the good & bad of things like this.

I also understand that I have a different perspective on mushroom cultivation than a lot of the community, which is why I've always avoided being confrontational or outspoken about these feelings, because maybe my POV isn't necessarily relevant to the average consumer of this information. All I have are my experiences, which have led to the methodology that works best for me. However, to me the reality of the situation is that Aloha, FP, or any of the handful of mushroom farms that I have visited or worked on over the years don't use plastic lids, or lids without filters, or blend agar & water to make their spawn, or cut their filter discs, or do sterile work inside a plastic container... etc etc. These are the sources where I have modeled my techniques from :shrug:



Anyways, I'm sorry I didn't mean to derail the OP's discussion, or to hurt anyone's feelings. Feel free to PM me if you would like to talk anymore about the off topic :peace:


--------------------
 

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OfflineJesseCruz
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Re: Proper SFD lid preperation [Re: PirateSwazey]
    #23809807 - 11/07/16 01:58 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Without going into the above: PirateSwazey always worth listening to, and good sterile technique is more important than the form of the SFD.

I cut the disks into quarter-sized patches because (1) the unit price is high, (2) spawning requires much less gas exchange than the circumference of a bottle can provide, and (3) my technique depends on a port inoculation. So the disks were a hole bored in them anyway.

Violet truffle tek has a good pictorial guide for this method. It is described in RR grain spawn video. Sounds good until you remember that the cut discs, unlike intact, must eventually be replaced.


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InvisibleComebackKid
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Re: Proper SFD lid preperation [Re: JesseCruz]
    #23809878 - 11/07/16 02:23 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

JesseCruz said:
I cut the disks into quarter-sized patches because (1) the unit price is high

JesseCruz said:
Sounds good until you remember that the cut discs, unlike intact, must eventually be replaced.





From your logic it sems more economical to buy the appropriate size filter disks for your lids, regardless of GE hole size, and keep them intact


--------------------
:amanita2: Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care :sporedrop:

Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind.
Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind,
is peering in from outside the universe.

Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself


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InvisibleTheEaglesGift
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Re: Proper SFD lid preperation [Re: ComebackKid]
    #23810188 - 11/07/16 04:32 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

and good sterile technique is more important than the form of the SFD.



Odd thing to say. It doesn't matter how good your sterile technique is if your SFDs are letting in mold. In fact, your lid set up and what filters you use are indeed part of your sterile technique considering your lid set up allows GE while keeping the spawn sterile.


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OfflineJesseCruz
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Re: Proper SFD lid preperation [Re: TheEaglesGift]
    #23810415 - 11/07/16 05:48 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ComebackKid said:
From your logic it sems more economical to buy the appropriate size filter disks for your lids, regardless of GE hole size, and keep them intact



It depends on where you are. 10 large discs for $ 20 makes me over 200 reusable patches in all dimensions, but a smaller disk 100 sleeve cost more than $ 100. The discs remain to be drilled to allow the injection port because a flow hood another investment. It ignores all other supplies.

But I agree, whole disks are more economical in the scale.

Quote:

TheEaglesGift said:
Odd thing to say. It doesn't matter how good your sterile technique is if your SFDs are letting in mold. In fact, your lid set up and what filters you use are indeed part of your sterile technique considering your lid set up allows GE while keeping the spawn sterile.



You can remove patches with a scalpel and soaked in bleach before going back to them, but it does not seem necessary in a quality job. Whole disks are easier but more expensive.


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Invisibledankington
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Re: Proper SFD lid preperation [Re: JesseCruz]
    #23810597 - 11/07/16 06:30 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

They're a $1/ea. or less if you buy 100
http://www.fungi.com/product-detail/product/90-mm-synthetic-filter-discs-set-of-100.html

Hardly seems a big price to pay when we're talking about keeping spawn clean.


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