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Big Lez
King of the jungle

Registered: 05/15/16
Posts: 19
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Take this as you will || contact with entities
#23803279 - 11/05/16 12:37 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hi, I'm not here to start a debate. Please read this short piece, think about it for yourself, play devil's advocate so to speak and then take it or leave it.
This isn't about any drugs, but the contacting of entities via meditation, astral projecting or tripping on a high dose of psychedelics. Like I said, take it or leave it, to each his own.
For quite some time I have been fascinated by people telling of how they have met beings or spiritual entities, especially on high doses of psychedelics. This led to my research and delving deeper into understanding what was really happening here. Some people believe that contacting entities during an intense trip is purely a hallucination. The majority of those who have in fact made contact, wether intentionally or unintentionally know otherwise.
Reading countless trip reports and researching my own beliefs eventually led me to the truth. Do I believe that contacting spiritual entities is possible? As a believer in God and saved Christian my answer is, Absolutely. It took me a while however to realize who or what these entities actually are.
This is a point where I will most probably lose a bunch of those reading but please read it anyway and take it or leave it as I said, do ask yourself "but what if this is what is really going on?". These spiritual beings are in fact demonic entities aka demons aka fallen angels. They may take on many forms seeming equally beautiful or downright evil. The devil (aka God's most beautiful created angel who was cast out of heaven for rebelling against God) or his servants do not come as they are but to deceive people . They may appear as a friendly, helping spirit or the like but the fact of the matter is that is not their true form. Their goal is to breach into your life and once they have that foothold things can get quite ugly as many recovered drug addicts have warned.
So yeah there it is. I just want to warn those who have had these experiences and have questions, feel uneasy in their spirit and troubled by it. The devil comes to turn people away from finding the one and only true God and will use any deceiving means to do so.
-------------------- "Blue Meanies mate. What do they do to ya?" "Take you on a spiritual journey of self discovery this and that." "Either that or, you trip the fuck out for five or six hours." ----------------------------------------------------------------- Everything posted here by me is made up and any photos posted were taken by the sasquatches and photoshopped.
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healing
Strangest



Registered: 02/22/11
Posts: 6,565
Loc: the universe, the milky w...
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: Big Lez]
#23803289 - 11/05/16 12:42 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Christians are always like, "I get to say whatever I believe and you don't get to argue with me. Just go and think about what I say because that's more important than what you think."
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
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connectedcosmos
Neti Neti



Registered: 02/07/15
Posts: 7,426
Loc: The Pathless Path
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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: healing]
#23803375 - 11/05/16 01:09 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah what healing said.....
you don't know some secret universal truth sorry, but you do have your own right to believe your own opinion , but most certainly no one really knows if god is even real cant be proven or disproven
--------------------
 54. The true nature of things is to be known personally , through the eyes of clear illumination and not through a sage : what the moon exactly is , is to be known with one's own eyes ; can another make him know it?
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openmind
curious


Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 13,866
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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: Big Lez] 1
#23803446 - 11/05/16 01:42 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Big Lez said: .....These spiritual beings are in fact demonic entities aka demons aka fallen angels. They may take on many forms seeming equally beautiful or downright evil. The devil (aka God's most beautiful created angel who was cast out of heaven for rebelling against God) or his servants do not come as they are but to deceive people . They may appear as a friendly, helping spirit or the like but the fact of the matter is that is not their true form. Their goal is to breach into your life and once they have that foothold things can get quite ugly as many recovered drug addicts have warned.....
How do you know this? What did your research consist of? Can you site some sources ?
How can one tell the difference between a malevolent and benevolent "entity"? You're making it sound as if all these entities people have encounters with are evil and malevolent, regardless of how they appear or come across to the person. If there are evil/malevolent entities, then there surely are benevolent and caring/friendly ones, so how does one know?
How many experiences do you have personally with encountering "entities" with psychedelics, meditation, etc?....
I've had a handful of encounters with entities over the years, mostly from smoked DMT, quite a variety of different entities....One "entity" that I had an encounter with from smoked DMT was the epitome of a loving motherly presence, she had the most loving tender touch, I felt like a baby being held in her arms...feelings of being loved, safe, content, nurtured, warm, at peace...I could literally feel her swimming through out my body and caressing every fiber of my being, radiating nothing but love through out me....
So can you elaborate on how this entity is actually, according to you, a demon/ or purely evil?....and how is this entity going to breach into my life? and once it does what is it going to do?
-OM
.
--------------------
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Sabnock
Be Your Own Shaman


Registered: 01/02/14
Posts: 3,249
Last seen: 4 hours, 39 minutes
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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: openmind] 2
#23803589 - 11/05/16 02:45 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Aldebaran
Psilo-Scribe



Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 1,323
Loc: Altered States of Europe
Last seen: 8 hours, 31 minutes
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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: Big Lez]
#23804225 - 11/05/16 06:13 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
do ask yourself "but what if this is what is really going on?".
Fear not! If your psychedelic escapades result in an ongoing psychosis featuring complex paranoid delusions built around a religious theme of being persecuted by demons, just go to your local church and you'll fit right in.........they're as mad as you are, and they didn't even have to take any drugs!!!
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11606181#11606181
Quote:
I found a church while wearing only my pajama pants, no socks, no shoes, no shirt. I confessed to him an incoherent tale of my godlike empowerment, evil energy, demons, and everything. He actually believed me and told me that the Bible teaches that Satan is the king of this world and has been deceiving people for thousands of years. I was on depression and anxiety medication before this, on top of my self medicating marijuana. He told me that Satan was playing with me, and I only grasped half the truth about the world, and half of my experience was a clever trick of Satan. He said that "special powers" come from occult activity and satanic influence, and that God forbids participation in such. I was frightened about death and anxious because God's conviction and condemnation was apon me my whole life. He told me about Christ, how he conquered sin, satan, and death. I believed in this, it resonated with my soul. My mind returned to me after that, and I could handle everything I experienced and still live in the world and not be a nervous and crazy wreck. God contained it all for me. I started reading the Bible and saw that everything I experienced was more or less written in there, and how the world came to ben in its current state.
My experience is classified as a phychotic episode. I know this 100%. But I believe in what I experienced, and still do. I believe that the psychiatric explanation is a Satanic tool to convince people that demons, sin, and hell isn't real. I haven't had to take any meds at all since I trusted Jesus. I have not taken any drugs, no psychedelics. After several years of Bible study, I have learned many things. I also learned that drugs is classified in the Bible as sorcery. Alongside that is divination, spiritism, astrology, and every other occult activity that originates in Satan.

Of course, only the real psychonauts know the ultimate truth - these entities are in fact our reptilian overlords, masquerading as demons who are masquerading as angels just to fuck with our puny minds...
-------------------- I wrote that, but I meant something else
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wolf8312
Pennywise


Registered: 10/01/12
Posts: 2,356
Last seen: 4 days, 9 hours
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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: Aldebaran]
#23805362 - 11/06/16 03:46 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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I bought a book on demonology (never finished it as it was too christian for my liking) as demons are something I am very interested in since using DMT (etc) and encountering them for myself. Pennywise who as you can see I associate metaphorically with the DMT experience is itself a rainbow colored, shape shifting, supernatural entity or demon who takes on either enticing or terrifying forms in order to better manipulate and control his prey!
Whether they are 'real' or not I really dont know though. Sober I am willing to entertain the possibility but unlike yourself OP I cant go all out either way and say for definite.
I would agree that the clownish DMT entities are essentially demonic and parasitic and many will try their very best to manipulate and provoke negative emotions -especially fear- in the user in an attempt to control him and his journey.
But you are suggesting this could be true even when the experience is over? I too would like clarification as to what you mean by this? How exactly can they get to you when you're no longer under the influence of something like DMT?
I think Strassman mentioned something about this too at the end of the spirit molecule if I recall people who were using too much complaining about something similar.
Of course the response is always 'you were tripping you nutcase' but once you see IT all again, in ways you'll never have the ability to explain you just know that it is indeed real- its all just too immense!
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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flickedbic
Sojourner



Registered: 03/21/11
Posts: 4,673
Loc: Fractalic Fabric
Last seen: 13 hours, 45 minutes
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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: Big Lez]
#23805455 - 11/06/16 06:23 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
If there are evil/malevolent entities, then there surely are benevolent and caring/friendly ones, so how does one know?
-openmind
This.
Satan and 1/3rd of the angels were cast out with him - demons.
That leaves 2/3rds as positive - angels.
Then you have some spirits of man who are stuck in between... this, a mixed bag like on Earth.
You shall know them by their fruit.
"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God. For many false prophets have gone out into the world.
By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses Jesus Christ having come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming, and is already in the world at this time." John 4:1-3
-------------------- Favorite entheogen experiences in descending order: 1)Combo of oral DMT + smoked Bufotenine 2)Amanita (urine drank twice) 3)Mushrooms > Achuma 16"+cid(still need higher dose Achuma)> Cid (still need high dose) 4)Morning Glory-HBWR (+cumin, cinnamon aldehyde adducts) > Methyl chavicol (need more activators) 5)Salvia (need to try quid)
All readable matter in the above post is ficticious... any similarities to real life are purely coincidental. Blessing.
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Bill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: Big Lez]
#23805638 - 11/06/16 08:05 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Big Lez said: Hi, I'm not here to start a debate. Please read this short piece, think about it for yourself, play devil's advocate so to speak and then take it or leave it.
This isn't about any drugs, but the contacting of entities via meditation, astral projecting or tripping on a high dose of psychedelics. Like I said, take it or leave it, to each his own.
For quite some time I have been fascinated by people telling of how they have met beings or spiritual entities, especially on high doses of psychedelics. This led to my research and delving deeper into understanding what was really happening here. Some people believe that contacting entities during an intense trip is purely a hallucination. The majority of those who have in fact made contact, wether intentionally or unintentionally know otherwise.
Reading countless trip reports and researching my own beliefs eventually led me to the truth. Do I believe that contacting spiritual entities is possible? As a believer in God and saved Christian my answer is, Absolutely. It took me a while however to realize who or what these entities actually are.
This is a point where I will most probably lose a bunch of those reading but please read it anyway and take it or leave it as I said, do ask yourself "but what if this is what is really going on?". These spiritual beings are in fact demonic entities aka demons aka fallen angels. They may take on many forms seeming equally beautiful or downright evil. The devil (aka God's most beautiful created angel who was cast out of heaven for rebelling against God) or his servants do not come as they are but to deceive people . They may appear as a friendly, helping spirit or the like but the fact of the matter is that is not their true form. Their goal is to breach into your life and once they have that foothold things can get quite ugly as many recovered drug addicts have warned.
So yeah there it is. I just want to warn those who have had these experiences and have questions, feel uneasy in their spirit and troubled by it. The devil comes to turn people away from finding the one and only true God and will use any deceiving means to do so.
The entities are not "demonic" and you really had me going up until you said that. i actually thought you were smart...silly me...never believe the christains when it comes to something so real like beings in the spirit realm
my point is...these being/entities ARE WHAT THEY ARE. Just because your limited perception views them as evil, then they will appear that way to you.
and just to prove you wrong..when i smoked salvia and was greeted by hopping bouncy ball entities...3 minutes later i was greeted by the spirit of my dead uncle who was a christian PASTOR so why would my dead uncle use the entity experience as a platform to reveal himself if these beings are so "evil?"
but im glad you already have it figured out and wont let anyone perhaps change your minuscule viewpoint
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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Dmt_psilocybin
White Male


Registered: 09/08/16
Posts: 467
Loc: shroom capital of the U.S
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: flickedbic]
#23805645 - 11/06/16 08:08 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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So you're telling me the only entities or beings in the universe are demons?
:
Btw i used to be a christian until i went to church and figured out no one there has a real concept of god. I find it sad they think giving people money will make god give it to them in return.
-------------------- MDMA is over rated
Edited by Dmt_psilocybin (11/06/16 08:28 AM)
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Bill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: Dmt_psilocybin]
#23805675 - 11/06/16 08:21 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dmt_psilocybin said: So your telling me the only entities or beings in the universe are demons?
:
Btw i used to be a christian until i went to church and figured out no one there has a real concept of god. I find it sad they think giving people money will make god give it to them in return.
Too bad you didnt figure out while you were at church the difference between "youre" and "your"
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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Dmt_psilocybin
White Male


Registered: 09/08/16
Posts: 467
Loc: shroom capital of the U.S
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#23805695 - 11/06/16 08:29 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bill_Oreilly said:
Quote:
Dmt_psilocybin said: So your telling me the only entities or beings in the universe are demons?
:
Btw i used to be a christian until i went to church and figured out no one there has a real concept of god. I find it sad they think giving people money will make god give it to them in return.
Too bad you didnt figure out while you were at church the difference between "youre" and "your"
Its actually you're and your. Are you happy now i changed it?
-------------------- MDMA is over rated
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wolf8312
Pennywise


Registered: 10/01/12
Posts: 2,356
Last seen: 4 days, 9 hours
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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: Dmt_psilocybin] 1
#23805710 - 11/06/16 08:36 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Religious people have a certitude of belief that rankles people I understand that. But theres no need for such a hateful Dawkins pile on upon an easy isolated (religious) target. His OP was polite and friendly so even if you don't agree with him you don't have to ridicule him...
Demonology is an interesting subject especially in relation to DMT and yes in my own voyages I have encountered what I would describe as demons or emotionally parasitic entities that feast on weakness and insecurites in order to bolster and embolden themselves. There are folks in this very thread attempting the same thing!
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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Dmt_psilocybin
White Male


Registered: 09/08/16
Posts: 467
Loc: shroom capital of the U.S
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: wolf8312]
#23805726 - 11/06/16 08:43 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
wolf8312 said: Religious people have a certitude of belief that rankles people I understand that. But theres no need for such a hateful Dawkins pile on upon an easy isolated (religious) target. His OP was polite and friendly so even if you don't agree with him you don't have to ridicule him...
Demonology is an interesting subject especially in relation to DMT and yes in my own voyages I have encountered what I would describe as demons or emotionally parasitic entities that feast on weakness and insecurites in order to bolster and embolden themselves. There are folks in this very thread attempting the same thing!
I wasn't ridiculing him i guess it's "tough love" or some bullshit like that. Anyways it pains me to see people like OP wasting his life away at some book that was written by random dudes That tells you what to do and what you can't do, and to christians (i went to a christian pre school to 9th grade and was very involved in church) they think if you don't fully believe and take upon every single word in the bible your not a christian. I have also encountered demonic entities but not every entity you stumble across no matter how you did it, they all are not demonic.
-------------------- MDMA is over rated
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flickedbic
Sojourner



Registered: 03/21/11
Posts: 4,673
Loc: Fractalic Fabric
Last seen: 13 hours, 45 minutes
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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: Dmt_psilocybin]
#23806282 - 11/06/16 11:47 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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You've encountered demons, but the Bible is full of BS?
I think there is some value in the OP. Even if it isn't demons masquerading as angels of light, but your own mental formulations, we can become carried away by them if we assign them all value.
OTOH, even if they are your own mental formulations, they can still have value. And still, if they are entities, I don't believe all entities are demonic. In the Bible there are many accounts of men having positive entity contact.
http://www.letgodbetrue.com/pdf/angels-of-god.pdf
-------------------- Favorite entheogen experiences in descending order: 1)Combo of oral DMT + smoked Bufotenine 2)Amanita (urine drank twice) 3)Mushrooms > Achuma 16"+cid(still need higher dose Achuma)> Cid (still need high dose) 4)Morning Glory-HBWR (+cumin, cinnamon aldehyde adducts) > Methyl chavicol (need more activators) 5)Salvia (need to try quid)
All readable matter in the above post is ficticious... any similarities to real life are purely coincidental. Blessing.
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Ezuma
Gontish Wizard



Registered: 12/02/13
Posts: 8,423
Loc: Roke
Last seen: 10 months, 21 days
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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: Big Lez]
#23806311 - 11/06/16 11:56 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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as soon as you mentioned Christianity I stopped reading I can't help it it just triggers my gag reflex every time
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musiclover420
psychonaut



Registered: 11/06/12
Posts: 19,563
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: Ezuma]
#23806359 - 11/06/16 12:18 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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One important factor to consider is the psychedelic experience occurs within ones mind. So any "evil demons" are likely to just be projections of your subconscious. That is a seriously ignorant to assume something is evil simply because it is unknown to you...
"I don't understand it so it must be evil"
-Christians
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
Edited by musiclover420 (11/06/16 12:20 PM)
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AkashicExplorer
Dimensional Jumper



Registered: 09/12/13
Posts: 912
Last seen: 4 days, 19 hours
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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: musiclover420]
#23806383 - 11/06/16 12:27 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Really? The demon story is very old already. Come up with a new thing people!
--------------------
The 87 gram MushZilla BEAST
And it just obliterated the uttermost crap out from me. Love, Bliss, Laughter and Enlightenment!
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musiclover420
psychonaut



Registered: 11/06/12
Posts: 19,563
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: AkashicExplorer]
#23806402 - 11/06/16 12:33 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
AkashicExplorer said: Really? The demon story is very old already. Come up with a new thing people!
Seriously, look at what the Spanish did to the Aztecs... They assumed they were using psychedelics to channel demons and other witchcraft and as a result nearly snuffed out beautiful ancient traditions...
When in reality aya is a very sacred natural thing that helps people get in tune with the universe. If it wasn't for their current religious misleading we might exist in a much healthier and enlglightened society.
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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AkashicExplorer
Dimensional Jumper



Registered: 09/12/13
Posts: 912
Last seen: 4 days, 19 hours
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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: musiclover420]
#23806428 - 11/06/16 12:37 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Exactly.
Religion feeds fear, giving you a narrow reality you must obey, removing your freedom. Psychedelics are born from the Earth and they make you question your reality, giving you freedom.
Enough said :P
--------------------
The 87 gram MushZilla BEAST
And it just obliterated the uttermost crap out from me. Love, Bliss, Laughter and Enlightenment!
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musiclover420
psychonaut



Registered: 11/06/12
Posts: 19,563
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: AkashicExplorer] 1
#23806489 - 11/06/16 12:49 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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The funniest and saddest part is many if not all religions are probably the product of ancient psychedelic drug use... There is a ton of evidence for it in pretty much every major religion.
People have forgotten their roots as religion and spirituality have been made a commodity. A commodity and a mental prison...
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
Edited by musiclover420 (11/06/16 12:51 PM)
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Dmt_psilocybin
White Male


Registered: 09/08/16
Posts: 467
Loc: shroom capital of the U.S
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: musiclover420]
#23808352 - 11/07/16 12:03 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
musiclover420 said: The funniest and saddest part is many if not all religions are probably the product of ancient psychedelic drug use... There is a ton of evidence for it in pretty much every major religion.
People have forgotten their roots as religion and spirituality have been made a commodity. A commodity and a mental prison...
Exactly. Is this branching off of Mckenna's theory?
-------------------- MDMA is over rated
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musiclover420
psychonaut



Registered: 11/06/12
Posts: 19,563
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: Dmt_psilocybin]
#23808485 - 11/07/16 02:14 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dmt_psilocybin said: Exactly. Is this branching off of Mckenna's theory?
I can't say I specifically remember hearing Mckenna talk about that but I am not surprised he came to a similiar conclusion.
Are you referring to his stoned ape theory or did he talk more specifically about religion as well?
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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Dmt_psilocybin
White Male


Registered: 09/08/16
Posts: 467
Loc: shroom capital of the U.S
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: musiclover420]
#23808805 - 11/07/16 07:47 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
musiclover420 said:
Quote:
Dmt_psilocybin said: Exactly. Is this branching off of Mckenna's theory?
I can't say I specifically remember hearing Mckenna talk about that but I am not surprised he came to a similiar conclusion.
Are you referring to his stoned ape theory or did he talk more specifically about religion as well?
I'm pretty sure he was talking about how indigenous primates and older species of humans encountered mushrooms when the plains of africa were drying out and since it gave them a edge in vision at low doses it gave them an advantage so the ones who didn't eat the mushrooms we're basically killed out.
I digress, after that he was talking about how this formed religion, imagination, and things like that.
-------------------- MDMA is over rated
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wolf8312
Pennywise


Registered: 10/01/12
Posts: 2,356
Last seen: 4 days, 9 hours
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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: AkashicExplorer] 1
#23809140 - 11/07/16 09:56 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
AkashicExplorer said: Exactly.
Religion feeds fear, giving you a narrow reality you must obey, removing your freedom. Psychedelics are born from the Earth and they make you question your reality, giving you freedom.
Enough said :P
I am certainly not a fan or believer of organized religion but I try to treat people online in the same way I would my religious grandmother.
There's just really no need for my arguing against her beliefs and certainly religions bloody history would not make me any more justified in attempting to deconstruct a belief system that is for her, and many others, a great source of comfort. Why not just let her have it?
Yes religion is a terrifying bloody example of irony and hideous slaughter in the name of so called goodness, but atheism, and relativism have been just as destructive and perhaps even more.
Thing is though atheism hedges no bets whatsoever, it is hardly very imaginative and as I got older I began to think it a more interesting challenge to explore the possibility that God or at least something out there may exist after all.
When I was a teenager I would always be hating on religion but realize now I was just doing so because it made me feel as if I was smarter than a pretty huge demographic.
Not everyone who believes in God believes in taking the new testament or the bible literally, many just simply believe in God and all that comes with it is merely tradition.
God is a huge part of life and the psychedelic experience whether he is actually real or not he does have enormous power if only subconsciously and psychologically. Real or not, he does dwell deep within us all, and everyone will beg for his help when the time comes!
Maybe as I get older and after a few psychotic death trips too many I too am looking for the comfort of a religion or some spirituality?
This is arguably the persistent psychonaughts subconscious aspiration?
We are perhaps all looking for God!
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
Edited by wolf8312 (11/07/16 11:06 AM)
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Dmt_psilocybin
White Male


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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: wolf8312]
#23809186 - 11/07/16 10:08 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
wolf8312 said:
Quote:
AkashicExplorer said: Exactly.
Not everyone who believes in God believes in taking the new testament or the bible literally, many just simply believe in God and all that comes with it is merely tradition.
God is a huge part of life and the psychedelic experience whether he is actually real or not and he or it does have enormous power if only subconsciously and psychologically. Real or not, he does dwell deep within us all, and everyone will beg for his help when the time comes!
Maybe as I get older and after a few psychotic death trips too many I too am looking for the comfort of a religion or some spirituality?
This is arguably the persistent psychonaughts subconscious aspiration?
We are perhaps all looking for God!
I beleive in god, but hes (not he, never a person.) not what christians believe in. If you don't follow the bible 100% your not a christian. Simple as that. I've been around all forms of christianity from jews to fuckin mennonite. You go in church and challenge a word of the bible and they will eat you fucking alive.
-------------------- MDMA is over rated
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wolf8312
Pennywise


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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: Dmt_psilocybin]
#23809195 - 11/07/16 10:11 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Haha yeah I guess I've had so little contact with such people that I am downplaying how infuriating they can be in the flesh!
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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musiclover420
psychonaut



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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: wolf8312]
#23809620 - 11/07/16 12:45 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Any examples of some atrocities atheists have committed? 
I agree with what your saying overall I am just curious what you think makes them "possibly worse".
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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flickedbic
Sojourner



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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: musiclover420]
#23809736 - 11/07/16 01:23 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
The total number of Christian victims of Soviet state atheist policies, has been estimated to range between 12-20 million.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians_in_the_Soviet_Union
-------------------- Favorite entheogen experiences in descending order: 1)Combo of oral DMT + smoked Bufotenine 2)Amanita (urine drank twice) 3)Mushrooms > Achuma 16"+cid(still need higher dose Achuma)> Cid (still need high dose) 4)Morning Glory-HBWR (+cumin, cinnamon aldehyde adducts) > Methyl chavicol (need more activators) 5)Salvia (need to try quid)
All readable matter in the above post is ficticious... any similarities to real life are purely coincidental. Blessing.
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musiclover420
psychonaut



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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: flickedbic]
#23809753 - 11/07/16 01:29 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
flickedbic said:
Quote:
The total number of Christian victims of Soviet state atheist policies, has been estimated to range between 12-20 million.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians_in_the_Soviet_Union

Still though, I wouldn't say those people were killed due to atheists beliefs. They were killed for their own beliefs.
That has happened pretty much all over the world for thousands of years atheist or not
If the Soviets had not been atheist all those people still would have been killed I bet.
I just have a hard time believing anyone would kill due to their own lack of beliefs. Now killing someone for their different beliefs, that is a classic
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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wolf8312
Pennywise


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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: musiclover420]
#23809764 - 11/07/16 01:35 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Nietzsches philosophy along with Darwinism were very enthusiastically embraced by Hitler (and his pals) and later used to justify all sorts of atrocities with the basic logic that what goes for animals goes twice so for human beings and that if morality/God doesnt exist then man should not be constrained by synthetic laws invented by men primarily to keep social order among the God fearing species.
The point is religion was created to keep order (sociatal stability) and to make people behave well to follow the rules and work together.
There have been many others serial killers and various psychopaths too (Ian Brady, Leopold and lobe) who embraced the same nietzchean philosophy and used it as a rational and justification for their own ruthless behaviour.
Again basically the Nazi philosophy deeply anti religious, and the idea being that good and evil were concepts invented for weaklings to cower behind while the strong by virtue of their ruthlessness are entitled to attain anything they can succeed in taking. This is basically dawinism and moral relativism.
I would venture a guess too though that the majority of religious tyrants who carried out heinous atrocities against innocent people throughout history were in reality guiltless psychopaths who didnt really believe themselves but were very good at getting people who did believe to do as they commanded.
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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musiclover420
psychonaut



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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: wolf8312]
#23809798 - 11/07/16 01:51 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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I would argue these atrocities occur at the extremes of both sides People will always find reasons to justify what they do. If it wasn't religion or a lack of religion it would be something else. You could be right about the people exploiting religion now believing though, or at least some of them. I don't think any of us can say what true purpose religion really serves.
It has been twisted so much over the years it now reflects human desires more then anything else.
Quote:
This is basically dawinism and moral relativism.
That is BS, this is one take on Darwinism. Dawrinism/ evolution is the change that occurs not the acts that cause the change.
Evolution can go both ways. Look at the diversity of life that has evolved. There are parasites, symbiotic relationships, and generous lifeforms.
Just like in nature some people choose to be parasites and can justify their behavior in a million ways. But the majority of people try to live symbiotically.
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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flickedbic
Sojourner



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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: musiclover420]
#23809809 - 11/07/16 01:59 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Still though, I wouldn't say those people were killed due to atheists beliefs. They were killed for their own beliefs.
By that token one could say all religious fanatics kill others for the other's beliefs, and not their own...
Quote:
Soviet Marxist-Leninism policy consistently advocated the control, suppression, and the elimination of religious beliefs, and actively encouraged atheism during its implementation in the Soviet Union.[1]
The state was committed to the destruction of religion,[2][3] and destroyed churches, mosques and temples, ridiculed, harassed, incarcerated and executed religious leaders, flooded the schools and media with atheistic teachings, and generally promoted atheism as the truth that society should accept.
Ibid
-------------------- Favorite entheogen experiences in descending order: 1)Combo of oral DMT + smoked Bufotenine 2)Amanita (urine drank twice) 3)Mushrooms > Achuma 16"+cid(still need higher dose Achuma)> Cid (still need high dose) 4)Morning Glory-HBWR (+cumin, cinnamon aldehyde adducts) > Methyl chavicol (need more activators) 5)Salvia (need to try quid)
All readable matter in the above post is ficticious... any similarities to real life are purely coincidental. Blessing.
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flickedbic
Sojourner



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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: wolf8312]
#23809850 - 11/07/16 02:12 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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If you don't follow the bible 100% your not a christian. (...) You go in church and challenge a word of the bible and they will eat you fucking alive.
I dunno man, maybe it used to be this way... now we have lesbian pastors; and god forbid you start talking about the Pharisees or asking about the synagogue of Satan.
I guess that comes with the 501c3 controlled corporate status (that's captured ~90%)where their preaching cannot contradict public policy, and many other shackles... sometimes I wonder what master they really serve.
-------------------- Favorite entheogen experiences in descending order: 1)Combo of oral DMT + smoked Bufotenine 2)Amanita (urine drank twice) 3)Mushrooms > Achuma 16"+cid(still need higher dose Achuma)> Cid (still need high dose) 4)Morning Glory-HBWR (+cumin, cinnamon aldehyde adducts) > Methyl chavicol (need more activators) 5)Salvia (need to try quid)
All readable matter in the above post is ficticious... any similarities to real life are purely coincidental. Blessing.
Edited by flickedbic (11/07/16 02:28 PM)
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musiclover420
psychonaut



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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: flickedbic]
#23809855 - 11/07/16 02:13 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
flickedbic said:
Quote:
Still though, I wouldn't say those people were killed due to atheists beliefs. They were killed for their own beliefs.
By that token one could say all religious fanatics kill others for the other's beliefs, and not their own...
I would argue it is different as Atheism is more a lack of beliefs in some ways. Also by some logic that is why religious people kill each other 
Clearly it is a bit of both though. People acting on their own beliefs as true while questioning/ persecuting others.
Quote:
Soviet Marxist-Leninism policy consistently advocated the control, suppression, and the elimination of religious beliefs, and actively encouraged atheism during its implementation in the Soviet Union.[1]
The state was committed to the destruction of religion,[2][3] and destroyed churches, mosques and temples, ridiculed, harassed, incarcerated and executed religious leaders, flooded the schools and media with atheistic teachings, and generally promoted atheism as the truth that society should accept.
All you have to do is replace a few words and this sounds just like any other massacre in history:
Quote:
Soviet Marxist-Leninism policy consistently advocated the control, suppression, and the elimination of christian beliefs, and actively encouraged Judaism during its implementation in the Soviet Union.[1]
The state was committed to the destruction of Christianity,[2][3] and destroyed churches, mosques and temples, ridiculed, harassed, incarcerated and executed religious leaders, flooded the schools and media with Hebrew teachings, and generally promoted Judaism as the truth that society should accept.
If the soviets hadn't of used Atheism as an excuse it would have been something else. The same could be argued about religion perhaps
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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wolf8312
Pennywise


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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: musiclover420]
#23810963 - 11/07/16 08:14 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
musiclover420 said: I would argue these atrocities occur at the extremes of both sides People will always find reasons to justify what they do. If it wasn't religion or a lack of religion it would be something else. You could be right about the people exploiting religion now believing though, or at least some of them. I don't think any of us can say what true purpose religion really serves.
It has been twisted so much over the years it now reflects human desires more then anything else.
Quote:
This is basically dawinism and moral relativism.
That is BS, this is one take on Darwinism. Dawrinism/ evolution is the change that occurs not the acts that cause the change.
Evolution can go both ways. Look at the diversity of life that has evolved. There are parasites, symbiotic relationships, and generous lifeforms.
Just like in nature some people choose to be parasites and can justify their behavior in a million ways. But the majority of people try to live symbiotically.
No longer sure what you are driving at to be honest but respectfully don't really appreciate being told that what I said is bullshit lol!
You wanted examples of atheist philosophy having been responsible for atrocities and I told you basically that Hitlers philosophy was a blend of Darwinism and Nietzsches moral relativism which he used as a very much atheist justification for what he did. True it was how he choose to interpret both, but the main point was it was Godless and atheist (although Hitler paradoxically was a spiritual almost religious man in many ways) in no way bound by conventional Christianity or its laws.
It is irrelevant whether his ideas were actually true dawinism in an evolutionary sense as we were really only discussing Dawins 'survival of the fittest' philosophy (applied to human beings) combined with Nietzsche's 'superman' brand of moral relativism. Yes it was all lazily cobbled together and bullshit but again I thought you were only asking for examples of atheist philosophy having been responsible for evil acts?
To be honest you seem to be averse to the idea that atheists can be evil too, but personally -and it's just my opinion- I tend to think it is the psychopathic atheists who are the most evil of all. I think although many of us are not consciously religious subconsciously we are, and do have a doubt and lingering feeling back there that there is indeed some force out there watching over us who we shouldn't really piss off. Our parents probably put that there but who knows!
I think people who can happily kill others without compunction probably don't have these same subconscious doubts and are as such unrestrained.
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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musiclover420
psychonaut



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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: wolf8312]
#23811177 - 11/07/16 09:48 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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I was just trying to say that is an interpretation of Darwinism that I would argue is flawed/ corrupted. Was not trying to be a rude, sorry.
I was also just trying to argue that in both cases it is just the extremists committing these massacres and using whatever guise they can to justify their actions.
Clearly anyone can be bad if history has taught us anything. But people do terrible things based on theirs or others interpretations of religions, ideals.
But I feel like there is a difference between the Nazi's / Soviets and organized religions committing heinous crimes. I guess the latter are almost governments in a way though.
I don't have much if any doubt that some form of "god" exists though I am sure it is much different then the average persons interpretations.
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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Trypto-Fan
Warrior



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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: wolf8312]
#23811891 - 11/08/16 07:39 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
wolf8312 said: Yes it was all lazily cobbled together and bullshit but again I thought you were only asking for examples of atheist philosophy having been responsible for evil acts?
To be honest you seem to be averse to the idea that atheists can be evil too, but personally -and it's just my opinion- I tend to think it is the psychopathic atheists who are the most evil of all.
No doubt atheists can be 'evil' too, on an individual level. The thing is, that atheism itself simply means the lack of belief in a deity. Any of the evil acts you're describing can't be attributed to 'atheism' itself, and rather apply to whatever other ideology they were committed on behalf of (whether or not the people in these groups were atheist or not is irrelevant)
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Bill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: Dmt_psilocybin]
#23814004 - 11/08/16 08:32 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Mckenna never proposed a theory but he has said shamanism is the original religion. Plus that he said shamanism without psychedelics isnt true shamanism
So yes, mckenna did believe that all religion came from drugs
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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wolf8312
Pennywise


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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: Trypto-Fan]
#23815198 - 11/09/16 05:00 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Trypto-Fan said:
Quote:
wolf8312 said: Yes it was all lazily cobbled together and bullshit but again I thought you were only asking for examples of atheist philosophy having been responsible for evil acts?
To be honest you seem to be averse to the idea that atheists can be evil too, but personally -and it's just my opinion- I tend to think it is the psychopathic atheists who are the most evil of all.
No doubt atheists can be 'evil' too, on an individual level. The thing is, that atheism itself simply means the lack of belief in a deity. Any of the evil acts you're describing can't be attributed to 'atheism' itself, and rather apply to whatever other ideology they were committed on behalf of (whether or not the people in these groups were atheist or not is irrelevant)
Its not a lack of belief in God which drives the act and such people are of course driven by personal gain, but it is also because they believe -consciously or unconsciously- that they will suffer no hellish consequences for doing what they do that they are able to do what they do.
Honestly some people do indeed take to this philosophy -nihilism with atheism at its core- as enthusiastically and devoutly as a christian does his. The philosophy -basically self worship- takes on the same dimensions as a religion but if he did actually believe in God, and hellish consequences for his actions, then obviously he certainly wouldn't do it.
So I would argue it is hugely relevant whether a man is atheist or committing his crimes because he believes in something or some greater good, the later I would argue being much more excusable albeit stupid.
I would say again too, that although on the surface countless atrocities have been committed in the name of God, when you really analyze why these atrocities occurred and the people who carried them out, you will probably find that they were actually instigated by total psychopaths with no beliefs in God or religion whatsoever.
After all would a genuinely god fearing individual have another man burned to death? I personally believe only a very sadistic man with no fear whatsoever of God would do that! In short an atheist.
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
Edited by wolf8312 (11/09/16 05:45 AM)
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Trypto-Fan
Warrior



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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: wolf8312]
#23815319 - 11/09/16 06:27 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
wolf8312 said: Its not a lack of belief in God which drives the act and such people are of course driven by personal gain, but it is also because they believe -consciously or unconsciously- that they will suffer no hellish consequences for doing what they do that they are able to do what they do.
Firstly, we all start off as atheists. Every single one. No one is born believing in a deity, people are indoctrinated into belief systems. People have enough reasons to conform to social norms of morality based on tangible real world societal consequences without the added belief of a vengeful deity or hellish afterlife (prison, ostracization, etc) The difference is that when people commit atrocities in the name of their religion they believe they are righteous by way of a higher power, which is an incredibly dangerous way of thinking, and something you couldn't ever attribute to atheism itself.
Quote:
wolf8312 said:Honestly some people do indeed take to this philosophy -nihilism with atheism at its core- as enthusiastically and devoutly as a christian does his. The philosophy -basically self worship- takes on the same dimensions as a religion but if he did actually believe in God, and hellish consequences for his actions, then obviously he certainly wouldn't do it.
What part of atheism or nihilism entails 'self worship'? As above stated, atheism is simply the lack of belief a deity, and nihilsm the belief that life is without meaning. If you're referring to moral nihilsm, well, you could argue that since moral values vary across cultures that there is no objective morality, but this is going off on a tangent; even with this belief one would still have to conform to the moral values of whatever society/culture they belong to, or else, consequences 
Quote:
wolf8312 said:So I would argue it is hugely relevant whether a man is atheist or committing his crimes because he believes in something or some greater good, the later I would argue being much more excusable albeit stupid.
And this is exactly the problem;
If someone kills thousands of people for personal gain, then that's awful, but if someone kills thousands of people because they believe their omnipotent imaginary friend thinks it's righteous (and the 72 virgins in the afterlife ) then it's of course 'excusable' Sure...
Quote:
wolf8312 said:I would say again too, that although on the surface countless atrocities have been committed in the name of God, when you really analyze why these atrocities occurred and the people who carried them out, you will probably find that they were actually instigated by total psychopaths with no beliefs in God or religion whatsoever.
After all would a genuinely god fearing individual have another man burned to death? I personally believe only a very sadistic man with no fear whatsoever of God would do that! In short an atheist.
This is just factually inaccurate. It's crazy the 'immoral' things people can do when they have social (or religious) validation to back them up. You don't need to be a psychopath at all, you just need to be indoctrinated into an ideology that will encourage you to do 'evil' things. For a modern example take a look at islamic terrorism.
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wolf8312
Pennywise


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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: Trypto-Fan]
#23815515 - 11/09/16 08:32 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Firstly, we all start off as atheists. Every single one. No one is born believing in a deity, people are indoctrinated into belief systems.
Yes I know that thanks! I myself am an atheist, and was never indoctrinated into a religion either.
Quote:
The difference is that when people commit atrocities in the name of their religion they believe they are righteous by way of a higher power, which is an incredibly dangerous way of thinkingand something you couldn't ever attribute to atheism itself.
Yes I'm aware of that too, but can you really ever know what the perpetrators or your islamic killers actually believe or believed? Do you any more than I know if he was a devout religious man, or simply a guiltless psychopath who believed in nothing at all?
Sure the suicide bomber who goes in and blows himself up, almost certainly believes in heaven but what about the man pulling the strings? He may be religious he may not, some men just want to watch the world burn!
My point was that his lack of religion and belief in God/Hell may not be a motivation to commit his atrocity but certainly doesn't stop him from doing so either. I was saying basically if he feared God and the consequences of going to Hell he wouldn't do it.
I was not making the argument that atheism drives or motivates people to kill as if that were so, as you implied half the population would be killing other people and committing atrocities too!
It wasnt either my intention to enter into a debate over which is more destructive religon or atheism, belief or no belief, and I too dont consciously believe in God but am a moral person.
That all said if you read 'The Gates of Janus' you will read the words of a psychopathic man who did indeed take nihilism and his and many others belief that 'if God is dead all is permissible' and turned it into a personal philosophy that he claimed for himself 'had the power of religion' and still to this day uses to justify his own heinous crimes.
I would also argue that 'the might is right' and 'survival of the fittest' Nazi philosophy was and is too essentially nihilistic and an atheist rejection of christian morality. Not simply a rejection of morality and religion but a rejection of the human conscience. This though should be analyzed from within the context of the early 20th century when morality and religion were not as mutually exclusive as they are today. If I did kill people I am sure I would be telling myself every day- dont worry hell is just a fairly tale!
But as I said above too, I do kind of believe many of us in the western world are religious subconsciously without even knowing it and if we woke up murderers tommorrow part of us would indeed fear hell! Just speculation though....
Quote:
This is just factually inaccurate. It's crazy the 'immoral' things people can do when they have social (or religious) validation to back them up. You don't need to be a psychopath at all, you just need to be indoctrinated into an ideology that will encourage you to do 'evil' things. For a modern example take a look at Islamic terrorism.
Its not factually anything as I said it was something I personally believe, just an opinion.
Yes people commit all kinds of crimes when they believe they have the law or God onside I accept that. My point was that many crimes are committed by people who have no beliefs in God or even personal justifications -moral/legal- whatsoever.
Quote:
What part of atheism or nihilism entails 'self worship'?
I think you missed the point of what I was trying to say. Lets have another look:
Quote:
Wolf said: Honestly some people do indeed take to this philosophy -nihilism with atheism at its core- as enthusiastically and devoutly as a christian does his. The philosophy -basically self worship- takes on the same dimensions as a religion but if he did actually believe in God, and hellish consequences for his actions, then obviously he certainly wouldn't do it.
I obviously wasn't arguing that the concepts of atheism and nihilism involve self worship! Only that the type of psychopath who builds a nihilistic morally relativistic philosophy around himself that can for him be as potent as religon for others- is worshiping himself basically.
Personally think this has got ridiculously over complicated!
Quote:
And this is exactly the problem;
If someone kills thousands of people for personal gain, then that's awful, but if someone kills thousands of people because they believe their omnipotent imaginary friend thinks it's righteous (and the 72 virgins in the afterlife ) then it's of course 'excusable' Sure...
Certainly wasnt saying it was excusable! I was saying that if a man kills another because he genuinely believe he is doing something good then this is at least (IMO) better than if a man does something knowing full well that what he is doing is evil.
I killed her because she was a demon and I feared for my life Vs I killed her because I'd raped her and didnt want her to tell anyone?
Honestly I genuinely believe the later is more evil!
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
Edited by wolf8312 (11/09/16 11:16 AM)
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Bill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: wolf8312]
#23815919 - 11/09/16 11:11 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Trypto fan...we all do not start off as atheists. Thats a bold claim in which i have no idea how you could come to that.
If anything its the opposite. As people get older they become atheists because they get sick and worn down. Babies and children are closest to god..they are "fresh from the extradimension" as i like to say
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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wolf8312
Pennywise


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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#23815959 - 11/09/16 11:23 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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When I look at my baby watching me, I feel like he feels that me and my wife are his Gods! Creators and understanders of everything! He often has a look of awestruck wonder and it feels almost like I'm looking into God myself, like a two way God mirror!
And when you think about it parents are Gods to their children for a long time before they stop believing in the magic of things like santa clause and begin to question things.
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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alwaysbenice
Stranger

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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: wolf8312]
#23816015 - 11/09/16 11:51 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Of course it's real. Have a shared trip report and you can prove it to yourself. Or just read up on the evidence with an honest mind and you'll come to the same conclusion: www.evidenceforthesoul.weebly.com
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openmind
curious


Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 13,866
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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: wolf8312]
#23816275 - 11/09/16 01:40 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bill_Oreilly said:
If anything its the opposite. As people get older they become atheists because they get sick and worn down.
Quote:
wolf8312 said:
....before they stop believing in the magic of things like santa clause and begin to question things.
It's the other way around for me...I came into this world questioning everything. I went from being a question everything, cold hard scientific minded, skeptical/non-believer of anything through out my toddler & little kid & teen age years, to being much more open minded and spiritual oriented now in my late 20s (but I still don't have firm beliefs in anything, that might solidify as a get a little older...my beliefs continue to change and evolve as I grow older, obtain more life experience and knowledge, and have direct contact/experiences with certain "phenomena").
I literally never once believed in Santa clause (or any of the other stories about Easter bunnies or tooth faeries, etc..)...even at 4 years old, none of the story about Santa Cluase, flying reindeer, going around the world in a night, breaking into every one's house in silence, none of that made logical sense to me and I didn't believe in any of it the slightest. I didn't see how it was possible, even as a toddler I had enough critical thought to ponder the story and come to the conclusion it was all bull shit. By the time I was in kindergarten, my mom over heard me talking with a friend in the back yard about how I knew Santa clause wasn't real. Before this, I never told my parents I didn't believe because I felt it would disappoint them for some reason .
At church as a toddler/little kid (I didn't go too frequently)....I had way too many questions, I was curious, and their answers never went anywhere & never nurtured my curiosity...Their answers would always hit a dead end simple answer (because god this, because god that, read the bible, god says so, because god loves you). It was frustrating and I was never a believer.
Anyway...I haven't followed this thread or the direction it's gone since I made my last post, just though I'd chime in with a comment. And I'd really like the OP Big Lez to comment back in this thread in reply to some of the questions I asked in my last post, or just some farther input in the thread in general.
-OM
.
--------------------
Edited by openmind (11/09/16 01:47 PM)
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musiclover420
psychonaut



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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: openmind] 1
#23816295 - 11/09/16 01:47 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't see how anyone can be born atheist or religious. Atheism is renouncing the idea of god and to do that you would have to have some understanding of God/ religion in the first place. Likewise you can't be born christian/ religious, you can be brought up that way but you were born neutral and shaped by your external reality/ upbringing.
If anything I would argue we are all born "spiritually clean" so to speak. If you believe in god or the afterlife or any concept of the "divine" then the moment of your birth is the closest you will get to it until your death when we all return to whence we came. Except by the time we die most have had time to shape their view of reality sufficiently.
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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Bill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: musiclover420]
#23816462 - 11/09/16 02:46 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
musiclover420 said:
If anything I would argue we are all born "spiritually clean" so to speak.
Exactly
Thus the older you get, the more you "forget" this cleanliness. Thats why i love psychs..it brought me back to my inner child.
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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musiclover420
psychonaut



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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#23816494 - 11/09/16 02:56 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Many natural drugs in general do that for me, cannabis really brings out my inner child sometimes. It is a psychedelic in some ways/ for some people though
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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Trypto-Fan
Warrior



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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#23816639 - 11/09/16 03:46 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bill_Oreilly said: Trypto fan...we all do not start off as atheists. Thats a bold claim in which i have no idea how you could come to that.
It's not a bold claim at all, it's a fact. The only reason people believe in religion is because they have it rammed down their throats. This isn't to say that a child free of religious indoctrination couldn't form their own spiritual beliefs as they grow old enough to even form beliefs, but atheism isn't a 'belief', it's the lack of belief, and this is where so many people seem to get confused..
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musiclover420
psychonaut



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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: Trypto-Fan]
#23816653 - 11/09/16 03:51 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Trypto-Fan said:
Quote:
Bill_Oreilly said: Trypto fan...we all do not start off as atheists. Thats a bold claim in which i have no idea how you could come to that.
It's not a bold claim at all, it's a fact. The only reason people believe in religion is because they have it rammed down their throats. This isn't to say that a child free of religious indoctrination couldn't form their own spiritual beliefs as they grow old enough to even form beliefs, but atheism isn't a 'belief', it's the lack of belief, and this is where so many people seem to get confused..
Care to explain how it is a fact that someone can be born into not believing in a concept they have never heard of? 
Quote:
a·the·ism ˈāTHēˌizəm/ noun noun: atheism
disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.
To not believe in something wouldn't you first have to be aware of that something?...
That is like saying everyone is born believing in santa and the easter bunny
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
Edited by musiclover420 (11/09/16 03:51 PM)
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Trypto-Fan
Warrior



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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: musiclover420]
#23816686 - 11/09/16 03:59 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
musiclover420 said:
Quote:
Trypto-Fan said:
Quote:
Bill_Oreilly said: Trypto fan...we all do not start off as atheists. Thats a bold claim in which i have no idea how you could come to that.
It's not a bold claim at all, it's a fact. The only reason people believe in religion is because they have it rammed down their throats. This isn't to say that a child free of religious indoctrination couldn't form their own spiritual beliefs as they grow old enough to even form beliefs, but atheism isn't a 'belief', it's the lack of belief, and this is where so many people seem to get confused..
Care to explain how it is a fact that someone can be born into not believing in a concept they have never heard of? 
Quote:
a·the·ism ˈāTHēˌizəm/ noun noun: atheism
disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.
To not believe in something wouldn't you first have to be aware of that something?...
That is like saying everyone is born believing in santa and the easter bunny 
It's all right there in what you've said.  To believe in something, you first have to be aware of it's existence.
If no one informed you of the existence of santa or the easter bunny, you certainly wouldn't believe in those things...
Once again, atheism just means the lack of belief in a deity.
I wouldn't disagree with the term you used 'spiritually clean', however, that would also mean atheism.
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musiclover420
psychonaut



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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: Trypto-Fan]
#23816705 - 11/09/16 04:05 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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I wouldn't call not knowing about something a lack of belief. Atheism to me implies "not believing" in god as it says. "Lack of belief" is way to general.
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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Trypto-Fan
Warrior



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Posts: 1,613
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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: musiclover420]
#23816783 - 11/09/16 04:25 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
musiclover420 said: I wouldn't call not knowing about something a lack of belief. Atheism to me implies "not believing" in god as it says. "Lack of belief" is way to general.
'Not believing' is the same as 'lack of belief'
Lack means to be without.
Yes, not knowing about something is not the same as not believing in it, but to believe in something you must first be aware of it (or at least the concept of it)
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musiclover420
psychonaut



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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: Trypto-Fan] 1
#23816824 - 11/09/16 04:33 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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That just seems like a stretch to technically make tons of people atheist. By that logic you could be atheist without ever having heard of it.
But Atheism as it says is a "disbelief", that is what it means to me at least. I don't see how it can be both a disbelief/ lack of belief.
That would be like if Judaism was defined by a "lack of belief" in Jesus so that just by not knowing about him you would technically be Hebrew 
Seems like a clever semantics trick to broaden the amount of "atheists."
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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Trypto-Fan
Warrior



Registered: 10/01/14
Posts: 1,613
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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: musiclover420]
#23816837 - 11/09/16 04:37 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
musiclover420 said: That just seems like a stretch to technically make tons of people atheist. By that logic you could be atheist without ever having heard of it.
Yes! Exactly.
Quote:
musiclover420 said:That would be like if Judaism was defined by a "lack of belief" in Jesus so that just by not knowing about him you would technically be Hebrew 
No, this is a ridiculous analogy, because there's far more to Judasim than simply a lack of belief in jesus.
Atheism is not a doctrine.
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Filterhead462
Psychonaut



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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: Trypto-Fan]
#23816975 - 11/09/16 05:36 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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First ill say that religion likes to put a label on things, you see a bright entity on DMT and its an angel but if you see something not resembling this, its a demon, this is an extremely basic and humanistic way to look at things. I myself have encountered many entities through DMT, Mushrooms and Ayahausca. Putting labels on them such as good or bad is trying to take something beyond human concept/perception/emotion and trying to make sense of it (which i think is impossible).
These entities people encounter are "just is", they are not real but also real, they are not good nor bad. The complexity of the psychedelic experience is that you cannot explain it, cannot measure it and cannot consistently replicate it, this means it goes beyond the scientific method and a lot of people turn to religious/spiritual sources to try and interpret it or explain it.
It cannot be explained, it is beyond/defies explanation, it just is. However this means the experience is subjective, which suggests that your interpretation of what is happening is as close as you're going to get to understanding what it is. What i am saying is don't turn to others for explanation because some wont have a single idea of what you experienced and the ones that have an idea have different views made by themselves or embedded from others. Make your own interpretations because that's the only true interpretation about the experience.
--------------------
We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion
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Bill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: Filterhead462]
#23817562 - 11/09/16 08:28 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Filterhead462 said: First ill say that religion likes to put a label on things, you see a bright entity on DMT and its an angel but if you see something not resembling this, its a demon, this is an extremely basic and humanistic way to look at things. I myself have encountered many entities through DMT, Mushrooms and Ayahausca. Putting labels on them such as good or bad is trying to take something beyond human concept/perception/emotion and trying to make sense of it (which i think is impossible).
These entities people encounter are "just is", they are not real but also real, they are not good nor bad. The complexity of the psychedelic experience is that you cannot explain it, cannot measure it and cannot consistently replicate it, this means it goes beyond the scientific method and a lot of people turn to religious/spiritual sources to try and interpret it or explain it.
It cannot be explained, it is beyond/defies explanation, it just is. However this means the experience is subjective, which suggests that your interpretation of what is happening is as close as you're going to get to understanding what it is. What i am saying is don't turn to others for explanation because some wont have a single idea of what you experienced and the ones that have an idea have different views made by themselves or embedded from others. Make your own interpretations because that's the only true interpretation about the experience.
Finally some wisdom
And whoever above said "spirtually clean" means atheism is completely wrong and i have no idea how one can make such a claim
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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Bill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#23817567 - 11/09/16 08:30 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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And how can a child be an atheist? Makes no sense. If anything a child is total opposite of an atheist. Children are filled with light love and life. Atheists? Ehhhh not so much 
If my child EVER starts acting like the atheists do on here he is getting a smack on the face. Luckily he hasnt yet
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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wolf8312
Pennywise


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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#23817603 - 11/09/16 08:45 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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I dont understand the stubborn refusal to understand each other on this thread sometimes lol.
Child or baby is an atheist because he has no knowldge whatsoever and cannot even begin to understand religion or concepts such as Heaven as Hell. Religion is something you learn and you start off a blank slate.
Lets agree on something!
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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Bill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: wolf8312]
#23817674 - 11/09/16 09:12 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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What does religion or hell have to do with anything im saying?
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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wolf8312
Pennywise


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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#23817969 - 11/09/16 11:36 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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I dont know what are you saying?
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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musiclover420
psychonaut



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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: wolf8312] 1
#23818110 - 11/10/16 12:52 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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This is just a ridiculous semantics thing. Your definition of atheism seems flawed to me as does proclaiming new born's as atheists.
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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flickedbic
Sojourner



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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: musiclover420]
#23818345 - 11/10/16 04:47 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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disbelief [dis-bi-leef] noun 1. the inability or refusal to believe
I don't think babies can disbelieve something they have no knowldge of.
-------------------- Favorite entheogen experiences in descending order: 1)Combo of oral DMT + smoked Bufotenine 2)Amanita (urine drank twice) 3)Mushrooms > Achuma 16"+cid(still need higher dose Achuma)> Cid (still need high dose) 4)Morning Glory-HBWR (+cumin, cinnamon aldehyde adducts) > Methyl chavicol (need more activators) 5)Salvia (need to try quid)
All readable matter in the above post is ficticious... any similarities to real life are purely coincidental. Blessing.
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musiclover420
psychonaut



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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: flickedbic]
#23818349 - 11/10/16 04:57 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
flickedbic said: disbelief [dis-bi-leef] noun 1. the inability or refusal to believe
I don't think babies can disbelieve something they have no knowldge of.
Exactly. But the definition also slyly fits in "or lack of belief" which is what he is basing his thoughts on I assume.
I should start a religion, one where we don't believe in this thing I just came up with that no one else knows about. That way I can claim everyone who doesn't believe in that thing I made up is part of my religion.
Genius right?
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
Edited by musiclover420 (11/10/16 04:57 AM)
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OfTheVoid46
Timeless



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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: musiclover420]
#23828379 - 11/13/16 09:23 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Why are "demons" automatically always evil to Christians?
Have ya'll ever considered that maybe some of these demons are indeed lost souls begging for your help?
By not partaking in the DMT and helping the beings you are preventing their soul from reaching heaven which makes you .... SATAN ... O.o
--------------------

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wolf8312
Pennywise


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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: OfTheVoid46]
#23831319 - 11/14/16 06:43 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Why are "demons" automatically always evil to Christians?
This is splitting hairs semantically again no? Its a bit late in the day to change the definition of the word 'demon' to mean instead 'kindly angelic entity' as demons are by definition malevolent and parasitic creatures. This is what we all understand the word to mean and why go by anything other than what the dictionary says?
If the demons you have met yourself were not evil then they were probably not demons.
I once saw a section of a huge flaming and rotating column embedded within which I glimpsed thousands up thousands of trapped evil souls. The sheer hatred I felt from the one that my mind zeroed in upon was terrifying, truly as if I was face to face with pure evil. They were not demons though as that was more of a vision but I have explained already in this thread my experiences with them on DMT.
Next thing you'll be saying that the devil is misunderstood and a good guy once you get to know him!
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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musiclover420
psychonaut



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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: wolf8312]
#23831343 - 11/14/16 06:56 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Its a bit late in the day to change the definition of the word 'demon' to mean instead 'kindly angelic entity' as demons are by definition malevolent and parasitic creatures.
That is actually the opposite of the case... Demon was a term coined after Daemon.
Notice Demon is just a twisted religious term for daemon:
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de·mon1 ˈdēmən/ noun noun: demon; plural noun: demons
1. an evil spirit or devil, especially one thought to possess a person or act as a tormentor in hell. synonyms: devil, fiend, evil spirit; More incubus, succubus "the demons from hell" antonyms: angel a cruel, evil, or destructive person or thing. "I was a little demon, I can tell you" synonyms: monster, ogre, fiend, devil, brute, savage, beast, barbarian, animal "the man was a demon" antonyms: saint a forceful, fierce, or skillful performer of a specified activity. "a friend of mine is a demon cook" synonyms: pro, ace, expert, genius, master, virtuoso, maestro, past master, marvel; More star; informalhotshot, whiz, buff "she's a demon on the tennis court" reckless mischief; devilry. "his eyes are bursting with pure demon" 2. another term for daemon1 (sense 1).
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dae·mon1 ˈdēmən/ noun noun: daemon; plural noun: daemons; noun: daimon; plural noun: daimons
1. (in ancient Greek belief) a divinity or supernatural being of a nature between gods and humans. an inner or attendant spirit or inspiring force. synonyms: numen, genius, genius loci, inspiring force, attendant spirit, tutelary spirit, demon "it must have been a magnificent daemon that inhabited the heart and soul of this artist" 2. archaic spelling of demon1.

So demon could just mean a supernatural entity or it could mean an evil spirit depending on how you look at it. The latter seems like religious fear mongering though.
Daemon almost certainly came first though so if anything demon would be the change in definition.

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Next thing you'll be saying that the devil is misunderstood and a good guy once you get to know him!
Funny thing is this is actually probably true The "devil" is just one side of the coin and is a part of "god" as we all are Good could not exist without evil, there could be no positive without negative
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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wolf8312
Pennywise


Registered: 10/01/12
Posts: 2,356
Last seen: 4 days, 9 hours
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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: musiclover420]
#23831443 - 11/14/16 08:03 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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musiclover420
psychonaut



Registered: 11/06/12
Posts: 19,563
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: Take this as you will || contact with entities [Re: wolf8312]
#23832648 - 11/14/16 03:24 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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wolf8312 said:
  
You have to remember religion, especially Christianity, is notorious for stealing other cultures beliefs and twisting them into a fear mongering mental prison.
You can see it with so many of their beliefs. They are just refined ideas from older religions/ ways of thinking. People fear the unknown sadly.
Look at what happened with the spanish and the aztects. They saw them using psychedelics and talking to spirits and assumed they were worshiping demons/ devils becouse that is how they had been twisted to think. So they brutalized the natives in the name of their religion and all but destroyed their culture/ traditions simply becouse of the fear of the unknown.
I have religious family and I respect their beliefs but it's easy to see how it is a mental prison for them even if they don't realize.
My great grandma was a christian scientist or some shit and didn't believe in modern medicine. She was a "elder athlete" who competed in marathons and swimming competitions for old people. She was very healthy and lived to be 95+ but in her old age she wouldn't accept any medicine... Nothing at all, all she believed in was the power of prayer. She might have lived longer or at least more comfortably if not for her beliefs, clearly that was her decision ultimately though I am sure her religious upbringing was the real reason.
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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