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InvisibleComebackKid
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Re: Monotub help - I've researched all I can! [Re: spacechildo]
    #23806498 - 11/06/16 12:51 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Weather your cvg is mixed thoroughly or not is not the issue. You could use straight coir as sub and it would colonize just fine:shrug:
Weather your coir is pasturized or sterilized it wouldn't matter either.
As long as your grain is fully colonized with clean myc your tub will be contam resistant because cvg doesnt have nutes...


--------------------
:amanita2: Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care :sporedrop:

Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind.
Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind,
is peering in from outside the universe.

Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Monotub help - I've researched all I can! [Re: crackbaby]
    #23806513 - 11/06/16 12:54 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

:nonono: I just adore the way we treat noobs with misconceptions on here. Keep saying "do agar" like a broken record when he clearly doesn't understand the reasoning, bound to help.


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Monotub help - I've researched all I can! [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #23806527 - 11/06/16 12:59 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

hell, even people who do understand what cleaning up a culture on agar mean seems to think its a "magic ingredient" that increases potency in your grows.
not much you can do but push them towards clean spawn :super:


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Monotub help - I've researched all I can! [Re: spacechildo]
    #23806535 - 11/06/16 01:02 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

:lol: oh but it hurts.


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OfflineWeavieWonder
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Re: Monotub help - I've researched all I can! [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #23806643 - 11/06/16 01:33 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

rbalzer said:
:nonono: I just adore the way we treat noobs with misconceptions on here. Keep saying "do agar" like a broken record when he clearly doesn't understand the reasoning, bound to help.




Maybe he understands, just hasn't excepted the fact that he doesn't have things figured out like he thought he did.  Failure can be a good teacher as long as you are willing to learn from it and your skull isn't too thick.  :lookatit:


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: Monotub help - I've researched all I can! [Re: WeavieWonder]
    #23806776 - 11/06/16 02:17 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Get clean syringes ....post pics along the way and learn how to spot contams.


--------------------

It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


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OfflineEdmunter
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Re: Monotub help - I've researched all I can! [Re: cronicr]
    #23806793 - 11/06/16 02:23 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I jinxed myself yesterday by saying how you do it.  I have a feeling that will be whiter when I wake in the morning.



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OfflineMushierage
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Re: Monotub help - I've researched all I can! [Re: Edmunter]
    #23806962 - 11/06/16 02:57 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, agar is gonna be your step to separating mold spores from cubensis spores.  There are times when you -can- do spores directly to grain as a multispore injection, but when you do so, you need to have collected your spores/prepared your syringe correctly so that it is never exposed to any type of mold.  That being said, there are a couple methods you could try to do a multispore culture.

Do all work in a SAB with gloved hands.  Fill a sterile syringe with sterilized water.  (You can easily do this with a half pint jar and a self healing injection port.  PC your containers, syringe parts if necessary, use a sterile luer-lock).  Using flamed tools each time, carefully cut the veil.  Squirt water directly from the syringe into the cap and rinse the inside of the cap into a sterile empty shotglass below.  Draw up the water again now in the shotglass and now you have a pretty darn sterile, homemade MS syringe, use to start at least 1 or 2 MS grows, and from those grows, get some nice clones that you can clone in agar.  At some point, agar is going to be something you want to go to, and it could be before or after you grow a tub or two and get experience.  Dipping into it earlier will be beneficial, but you can learn a lot from MS grows and cloning.  You can even do some sterile MS swabs, and put to agar at your leisure by simply dragging it across a sterile plate and letting it go.  See what happens.

Otherwise, you need to be putting to agar first, transferring your good culture away from contaminants, and using that to start a culture free of any contams.  Any contaminant then on will usually already be in your spawn, so make sure you use clean spawn after that.


--------------------
Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup.  OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.



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InvisibleTheEaglesGift
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Re: Monotub help - I've researched all I can! [Re: crackbaby]
    #23807313 - 11/06/16 04:38 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

crackbaby said:
i'm not saying that the problem could be from contams within the coir.  What i'm getting at is that properly cooked coir is the key to successful colonization/fruiting.  And pasteurizing or sterilizing allows the beginner to mix the CVG thoroughly, check for the right field capacity, then load up quart jars cook everything evenly.  I got nuthin against agar, but it seems to me a little strange that everyone is insisting that he must switch to that method (there was even a post earlier in this thread that denounced using a spore syringe to knock up rye jars--which has always worked for me)




"What i'm getting at is that properly cooked coir is the key to successful colonization/fruiting."

The key to successful colonization is clean spawn. Your advice is misleading.


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Invisiblecrackbaby
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Re: Monotub help - I've researched all I can! [Re: ComebackKid]
    #23807698 - 11/06/16 06:29 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TheEaglesGift said:
Quote:

crackbaby said:
i'm not saying that the problem could be from contams within the coir.  What i'm getting at is that properly cooked coir is the key to successful colonization/fruiting.  And pasteurizing or sterilizing allows the beginner to mix the CVG thoroughly, check for the right field capacity, then load up quart jars cook everything evenly.  I got nuthin against agar, but it seems to me a little strange that everyone is insisting that he must switch to that method (there was even a post earlier in this thread that denounced using a spore syringe to knock up rye jars--which has always worked for me)




"What i'm getting at is that properly cooked coir is the key to successful colonization/fruiting."

The key to successful colonization is clean spawn. Your advice is misleading.




I made that statement implying that it's being done with relatively clean spawn, and in response to this statement--
Quote:

Inocuole said:
There's simply nothing that could be inside the coir that pasteurization or sterilization would benefit over the bucket tek, unless of course, unpasteurized manure, with the microbes still living in it, despite the coir compression process, happened to be in there.  Then you would definitely want to spend time pasteurizing your manure-contaminated coir.




  The OP said that his spawn jars were fully colonized, pure white, and passed the smell test (of course this is no guarantee, but the odds are in his favor at this point).  Also, he later indicated-- 'One thing I HAVE noticed that is somewhat troubling to me is that after I check the bucket several hours after dumping in the boiling water, the coco coir brick is still somewhat held together in the center. I tried breaking one up one time but it was too strong'. 

So what i'm saying is, given the apparent conditions of his spawn, if it were mixed in a more forgiving ratio (1-1 or 1-2), with a properly mixed and heated substrate (coir that has been heated the right way is much easier for the mycellium to colonize), he could at least get some yield for his efforts.  Of course, down the road he might want to move towards agar, but i don't see why everyone seems so repelled by the idea of using MS to grain or going g2g with MS jars.  That is, unless i was hallucinating the whole time i was getting multiple monster flushes with the tubs i did using that method for spawn :shrug:


--------------------
:awedance:




Edited by crackbaby (11/06/16 06:44 PM)


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Monotub help - I've researched all I can! [Re: TheEaglesGift]
    #23807708 - 11/06/16 06:32 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TheEaglesGift said:
Your advice is misleading.




:whathesaid:


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Monotub help - I've researched all I can! [Re: spacechildo]
    #23807860 - 11/06/16 07:31 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

spacechildo said:
Quote:

TheEaglesGift said:
Your advice is misleading.




:whathesaid:




--------------------
                            :rainbowdrink: Tea doesn't work?                            AMU  (Q & A)                  Grain prep for Intergalactic Space Oats :pes:     

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Jokes are funny until they're about you


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Invisiblecrackbaby
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Re: Monotub help - I've researched all I can! [Re: cronicr]
    #23807927 - 11/06/16 08:02 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
Get clean syringes ....post pics along the way and learn how to spot contams.





:whathesaid:


--------------------
:awedance:




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Re: Monotub help - I've researched all I can! [Re: crackbaby]
    #23808198 - 11/06/16 09:59 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

i too have also had successful tub flushes from MS grain. its not impossible. the OPs grain is contaminated obviously, so he needs to learn agar or get new syringes. i'd do some cakes or a casing tek while i learn agar if i was OP. i wouldn't try another tub unless it was from a clean, agared the fuck up culture.

Edit:
but yes, the rampant know it all, you're a n00b so you must learn and I'm gona be the one to tell you all about it whether you like it or not attitude on this thread is disheartening, to say the least. what's happening is this guy thought what he was doing was how it was supposed to be done, and yall are telling him to do something he has never heard of, so of course he's going to be apprehensive. you guys should just try to be nicer to each other, we're all here to help each other. but whatever.


Edited by brickwallnomad (11/06/16 10:03 PM)


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Invisiblecrackbaby
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Re: Monotub help - I've researched all I can! [Re: brickwallnomad]
    #23808270 - 11/06/16 10:57 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

brickwallnomad said:
i too have also had successful tub flushes from MS grain. its not impossible. the OPs grain is contaminated obviously, so he needs to learn agar or get new syringes. i'd do some cakes or a casing tek while i learn agar if i was OP. i wouldn't try another tub unless it was from a clean, agared the fuck up culture.

Edit:
but yes, the rampant know it all, you're a n00b so you must learn and I'm gona be the one to tell you all about it whether you like it or not attitude on this thread is disheartening, to say the least. what's happening is this guy thought what he was doing was how it was supposed to be done, and yall are telling him to do something he has never heard of, so of course he's going to be apprehensive. you guys should just try to be nicer to each other, we're all here to help each other. but whatever.




:whathesaid:

it actually is pretty disheartening, the way a sort of mob mentality seems to be pervasive here...i've been noticing this in this forum a lot--a very rigid, arrogant, and short-fused approach toward noobs.  And very quick to go to the :facepalm:.

Here's some more utter blasphemy for y'all--P2G (pf jar to grain transfer) by one member i am grateful towards, 'Eatualive'.  Imagine that...using a multispore pf jar to g2g grain jars.  And it works like a charm in my experience...sorry:shrug:


--------------------
:awedance:




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InvisibleTheEaglesGift
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Re: Monotub help - I've researched all I can! [Re: crackbaby]
    #23808288 - 11/06/16 11:10 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I can't put this anymore clear than I'm about to. OPs tubs are all going green. They're not all going green because of unheated coir, that's not how coir works. Period. What else are we left with then? The spawn. So, the spawn is almost certainly the vector. Hence, everyone says to get into agar so as to avoid playing contamination roulette with spore syringes.

I used to get great success with syringe to grain, until I didn't anymore. I got into agar cause I was sick of bacteria kicking my ass. I got a batch of syringes from a good source and every single one was dirty. I was in OPs position at one point and tried to do everything I could to avoid contamination without accepting that agar was the logical route. Agar seemed intimidating but I was just being a baby about it. Eventually the answer to my problems was agar. I wish someone like me had told me that, but I was too proud to post about my problems I was having.

Agar isn't hard to use or expensive. What the hell are we even arguing about exactly? So far you suggest that MS>grain is not the issue but unheated/unevenly heated coir is? You suggest he gambles instead of learn a technique which will improve his success? WHY would you suggest that?

OP, what is your lid setup like?


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InvisibleTheEaglesGift
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Re: Monotub help - I've researched all I can! [Re: TheEaglesGift]
    #23808294 - 11/06/16 11:12 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Here's some more utter blasphemy for y'all--P2G (pf jar to grain transfer) by one member i am grateful towards, 'Eatualive'.  Imagine that...using a multispore pf jar to g2g grain jars.  And it works like a charm in my experience...sorry:shrug:




This is something that EAT said on the first page of that tek thread:

"its not really a benefit. just something to start with if you only do or have pf jars. ive had issues over the years inoculating grain with syringes. sometimes if i inject too much ill get wetspot bacteria. my contam rate is actually higher using spore syringes directly into quart grain jars. pf jars are just about 100% contam free and super easy to make. its extremely fail safe. for me personally, i store the pf jars in a small fridge for masters opposed to storing the large quart jars. so really for me the benefit is space. i can fit maybe 4 total quart jars in that fridge compared to fitting 24 different pf jars. so i can run lets say i do 1 strain per 4 jars. thats 6 strains at once. each pf jar can turn into 100 quarts.  the jars will usually last a year at minimum with an ok transfer. ive had one strain(Tasmanian) last two years in the fridge on a pf cake with a successful transfer. but grain lasts much longer in the fridge for sure.

also, with age, time isn't plentiful, life gets in the way, its a way of managing your crop and postponing it to fit your schedule."


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Monotub help - I've researched all I can! [Re: TheEaglesGift]
    #23808305 - 11/06/16 11:19 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

You can just throw spawn in the fridge for later? Got some king oyster grains I don't know what to do with atm.


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Re: Monotub help - I've researched all I can! [Re: TheEaglesGift]
    #23808365 - 11/07/16 12:16 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

it's kinda cute, the way you keep editing out little sections...

this is the full quote from a post on that 1st page-

    Quote:
    mushpunx said:
    Cool tek

    What is the benifit to this over just MS inoculation of the grain jars?



its not really a benefit. just something to start with if you only do or have pf jars. ive had issues over the years inoculating grain with syringes. sometimes if i inject too much ill get wetspot bacteria. my contam rate is actually higher using spore syringes directly into quart grain jars. pf jars are just about 100% contam free and super easy to make. its extremely fail safe. for me personally, i store the pf jars in a small fridge for masters opposed to storing the large quart jars. so really for me the benefit is space. i can fit maybe 4 total quart jars in that fridge compared to fitting 24 different pf jars. so i can run lets say i do 1 strain per 4 jars. thats 6 strains at once. each pf jar can turn into 100 quarts.  the jars will usually last a year at minimum with an ok transfer. ive had one strain(Tasmanian) last two years in the fridge on a pf cake with a successful transfer. but grain lasts much longer in the fridge for sure. {/quote}

same thing was done here  :um: --


Quote:

crackbaby said:
Quote:

TheEaglesGift said:
Quote:

crackbaby said:
i'm not saying that the problem could be from contams within the coir.  What i'm getting at is that properly cooked coir is the key to successful colonization/fruiting.  And pasteurizing or sterilizing allows the beginner to mix the CVG thoroughly, check for the right field capacity, then load up quart jars cook everything evenly.  I got nuthin against agar, but it seems to me a little strange that everyone is insisting that he must switch to that method (there was even a post earlier in this thread that denounced using a spore syringe to knock up rye jars--which has always worked for me)




"What i'm getting at is that properly cooked coir is the key to successful colonization/fruiting."

The key to successful colonization is clean spawn. Your advice is misleading.




I made that statement implying that it's being done with relatively clean spawn, and in response to this statement--
Quote:

Inocuole said:
There's simply nothing that could be inside the coir that pasteurization or sterilization would benefit over the bucket tek, unless of course, unpasteurized manure, with the microbes still living in it, despite the coir compression process, happened to be in there.  Then you would definitely want to spend time pasteurizing your manure-contaminated coir.




  The OP said that his spawn jars were fully colonized, pure white, and passed the smell test (of course this is no guarantee, but the odds are in his favor at this point).  Also, he later indicated-- 'One thing I HAVE noticed that is somewhat troubling to me is that after I check the bucket several hours after dumping in the boiling water, the coco coir brick is still somewhat held together in the center. I tried breaking one up one time but it was too strong'. 

So what i'm saying is, given the apparent conditions of his spawn, if it were mixed in a more forgiving ratio (1-1 or 1-2), with a properly mixed and heated substrate (coir that has been heated the right way is much easier for the mycellium to colonize), he could at least get some yield for his efforts.  Of course, down the road he might want to move towards agar, but i don't see why everyone seems so repelled by the idea of using MS to grain or going g2g with MS jars.  That is, unless i was hallucinating the whole time i was getting multiple monster flushes with the tubs i did using that method for spawn :shrug:




--------------------
:awedance:




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InvisibleTheEaglesGift
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Re: Monotub help - I've researched all I can! [Re: crackbaby]
    #23808398 - 11/07/16 12:38 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Editing out little sections? I believe the term you're looking for is called quoting.


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