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OfflineNightPuma1
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Monotub help - I've researched all I can!
    #23803019 - 11/05/16 11:01 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Look guys I've been doing monotubs for 6 months now and have failed in every way possible.

I have however gotten down getting 16 jars of WBS fully colonized with no problem, and I even wait a week to 10 days after that to make sure everything in there is fully colonized, but when I go to fruit my substrate I always get infection. Here is my procedure, please tell me what I'm doing wrong:

I take a bucket and throw in a brick of coir and 2 quarts of vermiculite. Then I boil the hell out of 4.5 to 5 quarts of water and dump it in the bucket, put the lid on and wait 3 hours. Then I throw in a handful of gypsum and mix everything up. Then I  put the lid on again and wait 12 hours for it to cool.

Later I smack my fully-colonized WBS jars against a tire to break everything up, open them to smell that they do in fact just smell like mushrooms and nothing else, then I dump them into a large crockpot of cool water for 15 minutes to rehydrate the grains. Then I pour a good amount of the substrate I made in the bucket into the monotub (the monotub has taped-up holes in it to the specified locations that many guides suggest) at about a ratio of 2 : 1 substrate to spawn (maybe even more like 1.5 : 1, honestly my monotubs colonize really fast because I use a good amount of spawn).

Within a few days (not even a week) the top of the substrate is totally white. Another week to ten days and it is probably totally colonized throughout and is fine to be put into fruiting conditions. I remove the tape from the holes, put in the polyfil to the specifications listed in many guides (tight in the bottom holes, loose in the top ones), and in about 4-7 days green infection comes...

WTF

These jars are as white and fluffy as I've ever seen in any picture online. Then I wait a week to 10 days beyond that. I doubt it's the spawn, and I'm following the guide for making the substrate to the T. What is happening here?

All help is appreciated!


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Re: Monotub help - I've researched all I can! [Re: NightPuma1]
    #23803023 - 11/05/16 11:03 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

what is your grain prep/inoculation procedure. you left out the most important parts.

if your answer is something like... i knocked up grains with a spore syringe then you have your answer.


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OfflineNightPuma1
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Re: Monotub help - I've researched all I can! [Re: mushboy]
    #23803029 - 11/05/16 11:05 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

This has happened with both syringe innoculations AND GTG transfer.

I've never heard that the method of getting the grains colonized was going to screw you in the long run, only that you have to make sure that your grains are in fact 100% colonized.

Regardless, it happens with GTG transfer created jars as well.


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Re: Monotub help - I've researched all I can! [Re: mushboy]
    #23803036 - 11/05/16 11:10 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

because your syringe is dirty?

how do you knock up the jars?

Quote:

I take a bucket and throw in a brick of coir and 2 quarts of vermiculite. Then I boil the hell out of 4.5 to 5 quarts of water and dump it in the bucket, put the lid on and wait 3 hours. Then I throw in a handful of gypsum and mix everything up. Then I  put the lid on again and wait 12 hours for it to cool




mix the gypsum up with the verm/coco/water. your adding something not exposed to
the heat of the bucket. and i use the bulk coco after 5hours in the bucket.


do you have any pics???



Edited by mushboy (11/05/16 11:16 AM)


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InvisibleMycolorado
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Re: Monotub help - I've researched all I can! [Re: NightPuma1]
    #23803052 - 11/05/16 11:16 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Later I smack my fully-colonized WBS jars against a tire to break everything up, open them to smell that they do in fact just smell like mushrooms and nothing else, then I dump them into a large crockpot of cool water for 15 minutes to rehydrate the grains.



Are you saying you dump colonized spawn in water to rehydrate and then add to the sub?  If so...that's crazy.


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Re: Monotub help - I've researched all I can! [Re: Mycolorado]
    #23803059 - 11/05/16 11:20 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:
Fill the stockpot with cold tap water and let it soak for 10-15 minutes. This will rehydrate the grains and decrease colonization times. Drain it carefully, I like to use window screen attached to the pot with a rubber band to drain mine.




from one of Franks teks. dunking grains for about 15minutes is common.


Edited by mushboy (11/05/16 11:29 AM)


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OfflineNightPuma1
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Re: Monotub help - I've researched all I can! [Re: mushboy]
    #23803066 - 11/05/16 11:23 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Ok that's a good idea I will definitely do that.

Do you think that pouring 4.5 - 5 quarts of boiling water into that much mass is getting everything properly pasteurized? I just feel somehow that if I am in fact using 100% colonized grains that the problem must lie in how I'm making my substrate, although your gypsum suggestion may fix that.

One thing I HAVE noticed that is somewhat troubling to me is that after I check the bucket several hours after dumping in the boiling water, the coco coir brick is still somewhat held together in the center. I tried breaking one up one time but it was too strong. I was thinking one thing that might help is if I take a hammer and break the coco coir up before throwing it into the b


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Monotub help - I've researched all I can! [Re: mushboy]
    #23803075 - 11/05/16 11:26 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

dunking spawn is perfectly fine,
but your problem is dirty spawn. use less spore solution in each grain jar
or even better start using agar to clean up a culture before putting it to grains.

post pics of grain spawn before use, just because its white doesnt mean its the mycelium you want.


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Re: Monotub help - I've researched all I can! [Re: NightPuma1]
    #23803078 - 11/05/16 11:27 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

it is best to break it up. also if you follow this tek you shoulld open the bucket
after 45ish minutes and mix it up real good and recover it.

however... you havent addressed the inoculation issue.

if you knock up a MS grain jar with a spore syringe you have like
90% chance of it being bacterial. so if you g2g a dirty jar.. you get
lots of dirty jars. or 1 dirty jar mixed with 4 clean ones in a tub
will give you a dirty tub.


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OfflineNightPuma1
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Re: Monotub help - I've researched all I can! [Re: Mycolorado]
    #23803081 - 11/05/16 11:28 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Yes from Frank's tek - what he said.

Again, I don't really seem to get infection until I fruit the monotub. The monotub seems to colonize fine, and fully colonized WBS should be pretty resistant to infection. This is why I think my problem must lie in how I make my substrate - his suggestion about putting the gypsum in first may be enough to fix this.

Any other thoughts?


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InvisibleMycolorado
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Re: Monotub help - I've researched all I can! [Re: NightPuma1]
    #23803083 - 11/05/16 11:29 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Do you soak your spawn?  Seems like a great way to add contams...In my mind, the risk outweighs the benefit.  Also, why would you dunk a sub before you spawn?  It should already be at field capacity.  Am I missing something?


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Re: Monotub help - I've researched all I can! [Re: spacechildo]
    #23803084 - 11/05/16 11:30 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

It happens when I do GTG transfer as well though...

I'm all open to ideas please don't think I'm not, it just seems to happen regardless.


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Re: Monotub help - I've researched all I can! [Re: NightPuma1]
    #23803086 - 11/05/16 11:30 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

:facepalm3:

its your spawn. why wont you answer the question about how you inoculate?


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Re: Monotub help - I've researched all I can! [Re: NightPuma1]
    #23803089 - 11/05/16 11:31 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

If your master is dirty then so will your receiving jars.


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Re: Monotub help - I've researched all I can! [Re: Mycolorado]
    #23803093 - 11/05/16 11:32 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I DO soak my fully colonized WBS for 15 minutes as per Frank's tek before mixing it with spawn.

I do NOT dunk the substrate before mixing it with spawn and never said I did. That makes no sense.

People seem to have pretty positive things to say about rehydrating spawn, but I'm definitely willing to try NOT dunking it to see if it helps.


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Re: Monotub help - I've researched all I can! [Re: mushboy]
    #23803095 - 11/05/16 11:34 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

omg. dunking and your prep sounds fine dude.
fucked up jars wont get to 100%(most of the time) so jar prep sounds ok!!


its the fucking spawn because the inoculate is DIRTY


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OfflineNightPuma1
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Re: Monotub help - I've researched all I can! [Re: mushboy]
    #23803099 - 11/05/16 11:35 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Again, this happens with spawn I've made from syringe and also spawn I've made from GTG transfer. In both cases I get infection when I put my FULLY COLONIZED (or at least seemingly so) monotub into fruiting conditions (i.e. remove the tape and put in polyfil).

The whole thing looks white and amazing, and then I wait 7-10 days, then I put fruiting conditions, then infection appears in about 4-7 days.


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Re: Monotub help - I've researched all I can! [Re: NightPuma1]
    #23803103 - 11/05/16 11:37 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I was asking in general as it seems like a silly practice if the idea is just to decrease run time...


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Re: Monotub help - I've researched all I can! [Re: mushboy]
    #23803105 - 11/05/16 11:38 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

you are describing how trich grows.

this happens from jars inoculated(injected) with dirty spores.

this is how you SOLVE your problem.

germinate your spores on agar first.


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Re: Monotub help - I've researched all I can! [Re: NightPuma1]
    #23803106 - 11/05/16 11:38 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Green mold is white before blowing spores and turning green. The mold is coming from your inoculation source and hiding within the cube myc. Many times mold won't show it's green head until spawned


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