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Gaspard
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Registered: 12/22/15
Posts: 191
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How long does limestone take to raise soil ph?
#23802265 - 11/05/16 12:52 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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if I mix the powder with the soil?
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ferrel_human
stone eater



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 16,320
Loc: Texas
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Re: How long does limestone take to raise soil ph? [Re: Gaspard]
#23802355 - 11/05/16 01:58 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Go easy on that stuff. It can raise it way high. Go with dolomite lime instead.
How fast you want to raise it?
-------------------- Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely. -Karode
 Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade
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El Torcho
Time for tea?


Registered: 04/16/15
Posts: 1,365
Loc: Lone Pine Hill
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Re: How long does limestone take to raise soil ph? [Re: ferrel_human]
#23802551 - 11/05/16 06:16 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Dolomite isn't a good choice, IMO. The Ca to Mg ratio isn't ideal for soil. I would use oyster shell, gypsum, or ideally crab shell. Or all three.....
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"Well it sounds trivial, but the key insight is . . . . . you don't know shit" ~Dennis McKenna "There is more to human existence and to reality itself than science can ever give us access to." ~His Holiness, The 14th Dalai Lama
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Spanishfly
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Re: How long does limestone take to raise soil ph? [Re: El Torcho]
#23802573 - 11/05/16 06:43 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Dolomite lime is a very widely used soil additive - if I could buy it here I would. It is a complex Ca and Mg carbonate which buffers the pH of your soil, and many pros think it is the preferred method of providing essential Mg.
-------------------- I am currently BANNED from using Private Messages - so can anyone who wants to contact me do it via my Journal thread. Link is https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23831115 Maybe some mod or whatever might think this has now been long enough.
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El Torcho
Time for tea?


Registered: 04/16/15
Posts: 1,365
Loc: Lone Pine Hill
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Re: How long does limestone take to raise soil ph? [Re: Spanishfly]
#23802585 - 11/05/16 06:59 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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The ratio of Ca:Mg isn't ideal for soils, especially container soils. It's easy to use too much and overload your soil with Mg. There are much better options which offer benefits beyond a 'liming agent'.
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"Well it sounds trivial, but the key insight is . . . . . you don't know shit" ~Dennis McKenna "There is more to human existence and to reality itself than science can ever give us access to." ~His Holiness, The 14th Dalai Lama
Edited by El Torcho (11/05/16 07:14 AM)
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Spanishfly
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Re: How long does limestone take to raise soil ph? [Re: El Torcho]
#23802854 - 11/05/16 09:50 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
El Torcho said: The ratio of Ca:Mg isn't ideal for soils, especially container soils. It's easy to use too much and overload your soil with Mg. There are much better options which offer benefits beyond a 'liming agent'.
Yeah, so you already said two posts back. Others disagree.
-------------------- I am currently BANNED from using Private Messages - so can anyone who wants to contact me do it via my Journal thread. Link is https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23831115 Maybe some mod or whatever might think this has now been long enough.
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Gaspard
Stranger

Registered: 12/22/15
Posts: 191
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Re: How long does limestone take to raise soil ph? [Re: ferrel_human]
#23802959 - 11/05/16 10:37 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
ferrel_human said: Go easy on that stuff. It can raise it way high. Go with dolomite lime instead.
How fast you want to raise it?
15 days
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Gaspard
Stranger

Registered: 12/22/15
Posts: 191
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Re: How long does limestone take to raise soil ph? [Re: Gaspard]
#23802987 - 11/05/16 10:47 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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I made a soil mixed with composted finely shredded mango leaves. Even after composting for 2 months they're still acid.
How many table spoons of lime per gallon should I use?
Edited by Gaspard (11/05/16 10:49 AM)
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ferrel_human
stone eater



Registered: 06/26/09
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Re: How long does limestone take to raise soil ph? [Re: Spanishfly]
#23803114 - 11/05/16 11:40 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Spanishfly said:
Quote:
El Torcho said: The ratio of Ca:Mg isn't ideal for soils, especially container soils. It's easy to use too much and overload your soil with Mg. There are much better options which offer benefits beyond a 'liming agent'.
Yeah, so you already said two posts back. Others disagree.
Thank you fly.
Do what exactly are you growing Gaspard?
-------------------- Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely. -Karode
 Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade
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Gaspard
Stranger

Registered: 12/22/15
Posts: 191
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Re: How long does limestone take to raise soil ph? [Re: ferrel_human]
#23803408 - 11/05/16 01:24 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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peppers
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El Torcho
Time for tea?


Registered: 04/16/15
Posts: 1,365
Loc: Lone Pine Hill
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Re: How long does limestone take to raise soil ph? [Re: Spanishfly]
#23804337 - 11/05/16 06:45 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Spanishfly said:
Quote:
El Torcho said: The ratio of Ca:Mg isn't ideal for soils, especially container soils. It's easy to use too much and overload your soil with Mg. There are much better options which offer benefits beyond a 'liming agent'.
Yeah, so you already said two posts back. Others disagree.
The posts contained different info. Maybe you should read a bit slower, so you can understand.
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"Well it sounds trivial, but the key insight is . . . . . you don't know shit" ~Dennis McKenna "There is more to human existence and to reality itself than science can ever give us access to." ~His Holiness, The 14th Dalai Lama
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the_r3dz
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Registered: 03/26/15
Posts: 5,709
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Re: How long does limestone take to raise soil ph? [Re: El Torcho]
#23804859 - 11/05/16 09:26 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Spanishfly
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Re: How long does limestone take to raise soil ph? [Re: El Torcho]
#23805333 - 11/06/16 02:21 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
El Torcho said:
The posts contained different info. Maybe you should read a bit slower, so you can understand.
El Torcho´s post 1 : The Ca to Mg ratio isn't ideal for soil.
El Torcho´s post 2 : The ratio of Ca:Mg isn't ideal for soils, especially container soils.
Yeah right. Hey El Torcho - are you a woman??? I ask because you always have to have the last word.
-------------------- I am currently BANNED from using Private Messages - so can anyone who wants to contact me do it via my Journal thread. Link is https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23831115 Maybe some mod or whatever might think this has now been long enough.
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psylo-not
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Registered: 04/27/11
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Re: How long does limestone take to raise soil ph? [Re: El Torcho] 1
#23805389 - 11/06/16 04:44 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
El Torcho said: Dolomite isn't a good choice, IMO. The Ca to Mg ratio isn't ideal for soil. I would use oyster shell, gypsum, or ideally crab shell. Or all three.....
Also, Gypsum technically isn't even considered a "liming agent" as it only adds calcium, but doesn't reduce the total H+ ions in the soil. Calcitic lime and Dolimitic lime both reduce the overall H+ in the soil, thus counteracting acidity in addition to adding the calcium and magnesium.
Your best bet if you want to grow good peppers, or anything else for that matter, is to have a soil test done to see where you are at. These tests can be sent in to most state universities for minimal or no cost. For most crops, you'd like to be around 6.5 for the sweet spot, but both sides of that are ok. Keep in mind, that each number of PH (from 5-6 or from 6-7, etc) is equal to ten times the acidity in your soil, so that is why people are telling you to go easy, a small change in numbers is a huge change in biology and nutrient uptake.
On the soil test, you'll enter the size of your garden and the crop you intend to grow, and they'll make a recommendation based on all of their compiled data through the years specific to your crop. I always do 1000 sqft as a general number because it is easy to convert the math. Recently, I was told to use 113lbs/1000sqft of calcitic lime to get my PH from 4.7 up to 7.0 for a pumpkin patch. Scaled up to 3000 sqft, I needed roughly 339lbs of lime. In order to get a better ratio of Ca to Mg, I used 200lbs of Dolimitic Lime (roughly 44% Ca, 30% Mg) and used 120lbs of Calcitic Lime (roughly 70% Ca, and only 4% Mg). I like my Ca to be about twice what my Mg is, so is why I mixed the products. Lime also varies based on where it was mined and clay content and such, so give a quick look whenever buying to make sure. 10lb bag of dolomitic was $12 at Wally world, 50lb was $6 at tractor supply... helps to shop around at agriculture stores even if you don't need that much, can still save you money. Lime is also one of the most widely used liming agents because the particle size breaks down faster than oyster shell chunks, it is much more widely available (cheaper) and it is one of the easiest on your plants and easiest to handle. You can lime on top of growing plants if you want, and it won't burn, you just won't be able to dig into soil and your plant will be finished before the full effects take.
If in a garden, the best time to lime is right now. Calcitic lime takes roughly 3 months for full effect to take, Dolimitic can be a couple months longer to reach full effectiveness. That is why most people including myself till lime in the fall, and allow the soil to rest over the winter. Then, a second test is done in the spring to verify the range you got to and make any fine tuning adjustments you would like. If you have any extra rye berries laying around, throw them down for a cover crop and till in the spring to add nitrogen, organic matter, and to keep soil from eroding over winter. Once lime takes effect, it has a longer period (3 years or so) that it buffers acidity while only gradually decreasing. I generally lime every 3 years, unless I need to adjust a point or more.
Peppers also like a bit of sulphur and they like it warm!
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El Torcho
Time for tea?


Registered: 04/16/15
Posts: 1,365
Loc: Lone Pine Hill
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Re: How long does limestone take to raise soil ph? [Re: psylo-not]
#23805679 - 11/06/16 08:23 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
psylo-not said:
Also, Gypsum technically isn't even considered a "liming agent" as it only adds calcium, .....
Peppers also like a bit of sulphur and they like it warm! 
Actually, technically, gypsum is calcium sulfate dihydrate, so it does provide sulfur.
Simply because 'lots of people' use something doesn't automatically equate to it being the best choice.
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"Well it sounds trivial, but the key insight is . . . . . you don't know shit" ~Dennis McKenna "There is more to human existence and to reality itself than science can ever give us access to." ~His Holiness, The 14th Dalai Lama
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El Torcho
Time for tea?


Registered: 04/16/15
Posts: 1,365
Loc: Lone Pine Hill
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Re: How long does limestone take to raise soil ph? [Re: El Torcho]
#23805688 - 11/06/16 08:26 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Spanishfly said:
Quote:
El Torcho said:
The posts contained different info. Maybe you should read a bit slower, so you can understand.
El Torcho´s post 1 : The Ca to Mg ratio isn't ideal for soil.
El Torcho´s post 2 : The ratio of Ca:Mg isn't ideal for soils, especially container soils.
Yeah right. Hey El Torcho - are you a woman??? I ask because you always have to have the last word.
Quote:
El Torcho said: The ratio of Ca:Mg isn't ideal for soils, especially container soils. It's easy to use too much and overload your soil with Mg. There are much better options which offer benefits beyond a 'liming agent'.
Quote:
El Torcho said: Dolomite isn't a good choice, IMO. The Ca to Mg ratio isn't ideal for soil. I would use oyster shell, gypsum, or ideally crab shell. Or all three.....
Read more. Talk less.
--------------------
"Well it sounds trivial, but the key insight is . . . . . you don't know shit" ~Dennis McKenna "There is more to human existence and to reality itself than science can ever give us access to." ~His Holiness, The 14th Dalai Lama
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Spanishfly
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Registered: 03/19/12
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Re: How long does limestone take to raise soil ph? [Re: El Torcho]
#23805820 - 11/06/16 09:20 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
El Torcho said:
Quote:
Spanishfly said:
Quote:
El Torcho said:
The posts contained different info. Maybe you should read a bit slower, so you can understand.
El Torcho´s post 1 : The Ca to Mg ratio isn't ideal for soil.
El Torcho´s post 2 : The ratio of Ca:Mg isn't ideal for soils, especially container soils.
Yeah right. Hey El Torcho - are you a woman??? I ask because you always have to have the last word.
Quote:
El Torcho said: The ratio of Ca:Mg isn't ideal for soils, especially container soils. It's easy to use too much and overload your soil with Mg. There are much better options which offer benefits beyond a 'liming agent'.
Quote:
El Torcho said: Dolomite isn't a good choice, IMO. The Ca to Mg ratio isn't ideal for soil. I would use oyster shell, gypsum, or ideally crab shell. Or all three.....
Read more. Talk less.
Think more. Write less crap. And as I think you are a woman I guess you will be soon back to have the last word.
-------------------- I am currently BANNED from using Private Messages - so can anyone who wants to contact me do it via my Journal thread. Link is https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23831115 Maybe some mod or whatever might think this has now been long enough.
Edited by Spanishfly (11/06/16 09:22 AM)
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El Torcho
Time for tea?


Registered: 04/16/15
Posts: 1,365
Loc: Lone Pine Hill
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Re: How long does limestone take to raise soil ph? [Re: Spanishfly]
#23805825 - 11/06/16 09:21 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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--------------------
"Well it sounds trivial, but the key insight is . . . . . you don't know shit" ~Dennis McKenna "There is more to human existence and to reality itself than science can ever give us access to." ~His Holiness, The 14th Dalai Lama
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the_r3dz
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Registered: 03/26/15
Posts: 5,709
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Re: How long does limestone take to raise soil ph? [Re: El Torcho]
#23806078 - 11/06/16 10:50 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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so what were we talking about again
I use a lot of limestone in my mix, I buy big bags of screenings and then wash them through a food strainer to get the dust off but only for my lophs
but I found this stuff called HPB, high performance something it's got a bit of limestone but lots of other rocks and minerals as well, I think it's going to be a better stone mix.
still hunting for pumice
lava rock is great for trichs, as their native habitat is volcanic as it is
and I think that most organic growers will tell you that pH doesn't matter as much as some think, with proper microbes and such working with your plants they should be getting their full dose of vitamins and minerals no matter the pH I think
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ashfiken
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Re: How long does limestone take to raise soil ph? [Re: the_r3dz]
#23806196 - 11/06/16 11:24 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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The proper microbes and such actually work to keep the pH constantly in a useable range hence the love and ease of organic/soil building. You have good soil pH or anything for that matter, is no worry. Btw soil science is one of the Most complicated/broad and understudied divisions of science there is a lot like how we truly know little of the brain. Alas the idea stands if you have a good mix pH will settle itself. As far as the op goes, id use dolo if I were securing a large area of acidic soil or intended to use in years to come. I personally would feel better about aging and tilling under such a soil for a little longer than mentioned above, but that's me. If using in potted or other smaller beds (cacti excluded) I'd prob use a more readily available (to plants and microbes immediately) such as the shell meals listed already. Def situation dependent.
Cheers
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