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Offlinesom776
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inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ?
    #23798726 - 11/03/16 06:58 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Hi . i was reading a post that states back in the day , people where having success cultivating shrooms on only compost and or horse manure .

Here is the link

https://erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_article10.shtml. 

I was wondering if anyone has had success with this method for grainless spawn . i saw blue helix spawn bag tek and it seems similar , he even wrote back saying that it is very possible by liquid culture , i tried clarifing the point of no grains but he hasnt been on .

I have 250 spawn bags for p.e. cubes and about 400 quart jars for pan cyan pf style  . Would i be able to acheive a decent yield per bag and jar , being that my manure and verm spawn is at 65% moisture level with plenty of liquid culture ??

Will they grow and produce fruits being that manure and or compost is free.


Thanks alot guys .


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: som776]
    #23798844 - 11/03/16 07:34 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Spawn is the bulk of the nutrition in your grow. So much so that measuring yeild can be done by quarts of spawn used. You should achieve 1-2 dry oz per "mycology" quart of spawn(that is 2/3 full for shaking)

Of course you can go right to poo. That's how it was done decades ago. There's spawn now if you're wanting to do what's achievable now


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: bodhisatta] * 1
    #23798873 - 11/03/16 07:42 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Wtf you want with that much spawn :stonedjerk:


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: cronicr]
    #23800654 - 11/04/16 01:17 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks . will the 1 - 2 oz dry per quart also be an accurate estimate for just using poo also ?


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: som776]
    #23800963 - 11/04/16 03:30 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

asking if you'll get 1-2 oz pr quart of spawn if you're not using spawn?? put down the bong dude, that dont make sense :lol:


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: som776]
    #23800972 - 11/04/16 03:36 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

touché. Do you think i can atleast expect half ?


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: som776]
    #23801011 - 11/04/16 03:52 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

:notsureif:


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: spacechildo]
    #23802204 - 11/04/16 11:57 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Ok brother . Your not helping anymore , thanks


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: som776]
    #23802276 - 11/05/16 12:58 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Bulk sub mostly supplies water, most of the nutrition comes from the grain, why yield goes up with higher spawn ratios and why natures BE is piss poor compared to our indoor grows.


--------------------

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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: NDStepp84]
    #23802311 - 11/05/16 01:24 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

you know, maybe it's just me, but I'd have probably done a little more reading before I did 250 spawn bags, and made 400 qt jars for pans (done pf style?) with LCs.


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: dankington]
    #23802445 - 11/05/16 03:56 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

dankington said:
you know, maybe it's just me, but I'd have probably done a little more reading before I did 250 spawn bags, and made 400 qt jars for pans (done pf style?) with LCs.




:whathesaid:

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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: som776]
    #23802491 - 11/05/16 04:53 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

som776 said:
Hi . i was reading a post that states back in the day , people where having success cultivating shrooms on only compost and or horse manure .

Here is the link

https://erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_article10.shtml. 

I was wondering if anyone has had success with this method for grainless spawn . i saw blue helix spawn bag tek and it seems similar , he even wrote back saying that it is very possible by liquid culture , i tried clarifing the point of no grains but he hasnt been on .

I have 250 spawn bags for p.e. cubes and about 400 quart jars for pan cyan pf style  . Would i be able to acheive a decent yield per bag and jar , being that my manure and verm spawn is at 65% moisture level with plenty of liquid culture ??

Will they grow and produce fruits being that manure and or compost is free.


Thanks alot guys .




This guy must be way past the 6th grade.


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: wtfcrazymofo]
    #23802501 - 11/05/16 05:17 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Why quarts of size for cakes. Yield for coir alone is 4 dry grams per quart. Straw being the highest at i think 10 grams per quart.


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: tump]
    #23802570 - 11/05/16 06:42 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Did you just pull these values out of your ass or what?


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: Mad Season]
    #23802596 - 11/05/16 07:06 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

This guys trying to grow 100lbs a month or something hahahaha

Maybe you should do a grow first....


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: Mad Season]
    #23802602 - 11/05/16 07:10 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

No go test it with pure straw or pure coir in bottle teks. Pure coir sucks that way but 50ml of li will do the trick. Of course i only did this one round out of boredom. Im sure if muda or pasty did it they get better yeild.


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: tump]
    #23802612 - 11/05/16 07:17 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I was gunna say that just doing it once doesn't mean anything lol, since every pair of genetics would prefer a certain substrate to another, or conditions even will affect it. But yeah I've seen a few mushrooms come out of a piece of cardboard > straw block or an agar dish > manure pile. Literally never tried coir.

But I don't understand why we want to go spawnless, because it's substantially higher yields, but that's just me :shrug:


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: som776]
    #23802635 - 11/05/16 07:35 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

som776 said:
Ok brother . Your not helping anymore , thanks




dude, if you're using 0 qt jars of grain spawn,
how can you ask questions about how much return you'll see pr qt jar of grain spawn?!?

that's why I said put down the bong you're not making sense :super:


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: spacechildo]
    #23802643 - 11/05/16 07:40 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Lol he really doesn't get it eh?

1 oz/qt of spawn could mean there's anywhere between 1-4 qts of poo, which would mean 2-5 qts of overall substrate = 1 oz, which is still IMO pretty shitty, so that might help op figure out his question


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: Mad Season]
    #23802734 - 11/05/16 08:40 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mad Season said:
Did you just pull these values out of your ass or what?




business as usual eh? :wink:


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: spacechildo]
    #23802744 - 11/05/16 08:46 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

:minigun:


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: Inocuole]
    #23802759 - 11/05/16 09:01 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

:gaycrankey:


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: spacechildo]
    #23802763 - 11/05/16 09:03 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)



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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: PinPornProducer]
    #23802930 - 11/05/16 10:24 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)



This is a bad thread.
OP should feel bad.


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: Greg]
    #23803007 - 11/05/16 10:56 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I didnt say grain spawn . i said using manure and verm as spawn by liquid culture , like they use to grow years ago from the article i posted up . wanted to know the yield difference between what they did to grain spawn now .


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: som776]
    #23803013 - 11/05/16 10:59 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

How are you gonna measure how much spawn you're using in a ratio when the spawn material is the same as the bulk material?  Whether it's colonized in a jar first doesn't have an impact on how much it'll produce.  Ideally it doesn't matter if you spawn 2 quarts of colonized bulk to another 2 quarts, or 1 quart to 3 quarts, or 3 quarts to 1 quart.  It's all gonna be 4 quarts of colonized bulk when it's done.  Which will barely put out shit without proper spawn.


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                            :rainbowdrink: Tea doesn't work?                            AMU  (Q & A)                  Grain prep for Intergalactic Space Oats :pes:     

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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: som776]
    #23803020 - 11/05/16 11:02 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

no one's claiming 1-2oz pr qt of anything but grain spawn. no you wont get good results without grain spawn. get with the times, make spawn!


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: som776]
    #23803022 - 11/05/16 11:03 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I think it was eat that used blended cakes as a LI and poured it over the sub, not sure if it was hpoo or coir, can't remeber. Yields are very hard to determine normally anyways. So many factors go into yield results.


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: dankington]
    #23803101 - 11/05/16 11:36 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

dankington said:
you know, maybe it's just me, but I'd have probably done a little more reading before I did 250 spawn bags, and made 400 qt jars for pans (done pf style?) with LCs.




Seems legit.


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: Spore Ninja]
    #23803804 - 11/05/16 04:06 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I do have x 18 35lb bags of wbs . i wanted to do spongiforms big cake tek in spawn bags and an invitro pan cyan tek in plastic quart jars or regular manure cakes, but was wondering if monotubs would bring better yield and potency ( strain p.e. and pan trop  ) never used manure in monotub before only 2 succesful mono tubs with damion5050 teq and a few succesful goes at pf tek . i have unlimited manure and verm .

One more thing if youbguys can help i followed spongi forms l.c. tek and also joke fox agar broth tek and i see growth . i have about 20 stir plates , how do i know if my culture is healthy . One of my pan cyan l.c.s a small part of it ,the myc has turned blue is it over for it ? Must i transfer to agar or is it ok to transfer to other l.c.s to multiply my l.c. supply ?

Thanks guys .


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: som776]
    #23803809 - 11/05/16 04:08 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Ohh yeah for suuuure dirty LC expands like a dream.


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: Inocuole]
    #23804216 - 11/05/16 06:11 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Ok thanks i have another pancyan l.c. color is good but myc went flat can i still use ? The myc is sinking .


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: som776]
    #23804382 - 11/05/16 06:54 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

pictures please. Agar made lc starting out is best. The only way to test a culture is agar. The only good use for a dirty lc is poisoning your neighbor's pets


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: tump]
    #23805678 - 11/06/16 08:23 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks Tump. Here are pics of my 2 pan cyan liq cultures . in the first pic the one that i believe to be healthy is on the left still floating , the one on the right is the one that looks to still have healthy myc patches forming now , but some have a small off greenish blue spot in the middle .
The last 5 pics are of the bad one , i do however think that i see pins forming in this one .
Do you have any advice on what to do with these jars ?

Thanks brother .



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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: som776] * 1
    #23805684 - 11/06/16 08:26 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Those are both so nasty


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: Mad Season]
    #23805694 - 11/06/16 08:28 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Jesus those are disgusting :eek:


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: Greg]
    #23805701 - 11/06/16 08:32 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Toss them in the trash a few days ago is my advice


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23805712 - 11/06/16 08:37 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Wow...


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: PinPornProducer]
    #23805718 - 11/06/16 08:39 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

:ohgodwhy:

Don't open the jars toss them as they are or PC them for an hour if you don't want to toss the glass.


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: PinPornProducer]
    #23805722 - 11/06/16 08:41 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

:woooaaahhh:


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: dankington]
    #23805743 - 11/06/16 08:49 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I think it's safe to that everything this guy has going as of right now is junk and needs to go in the trash. Needs to study some shit for another few months and start over fresh. Definately starting with agar...


Edited by PinPornProducer (11/06/16 08:52 AM)


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: som776]
    #23805847 - 11/06/16 09:30 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Can i do transfers ?
They are thick because i had them on the stir plate for the last week .
I have many agar jars , but no spores at this time .


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: som776]
    #23805853 - 11/06/16 09:32 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Taking transfers from those is the last thing I would do


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: som776]
    #23805854 - 11/06/16 09:33 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)



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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: som776]
    #23805855 - 11/06/16 09:33 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

What's there to transfer? Dude it's all toast, suck it up and start over.


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: som776]
    #23805866 - 11/06/16 09:35 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

What would you do . how do i keep the spores perfectly clean , i dont have a flow hood but i have a glove box . The cultures are made from agar broth .


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: som776]
    #23805873 - 11/06/16 09:38 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Spores are not 100% clean to begin with. Spores go to agar then get cleaned up.

You want a still air box. Not a glove box


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: som776]
    #23805876 - 11/06/16 09:39 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

buy/trade a spore print, do pastywhytes easy agar tek, post pics to get best possible help, get great results!


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: spacechildo]
    #23805894 - 11/06/16 09:42 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Would you buy spore prints or spore solution ?


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: som776]
    #23805898 - 11/06/16 09:43 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

They're the same thing


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: som776]
    #23805907 - 11/06/16 09:47 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

So if i buy spore solution i can put it intobagar. Should i make the agar soft ?


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: som776] * 1
    #23805947 - 11/06/16 10:01 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

som776 said:




These are not good for agar plates if that's what they are. To tall, you want short 1/2 pints or dishes. You really don't want to be sticking the entire scalpel and your finger tips into the plates.

Run some plates, clean the culture up.

Put some clean culture on slants for future use since its already cleaned up so you don't have to start over.



Wedges to grains



Get clean master jars


G2G


Spawn to tubs


Get fruits



Edited by PinPornProducer (11/06/16 10:07 AM)


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: PinPornProducer]
    #23805995 - 11/06/16 10:20 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Ok . thanks alot , appreciate the help .


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: som776]
    #23806004 - 11/06/16 10:23 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Taking spores and making LC is never a good idea. It can work, but don't do it

People.usually use clean mycelium from a petrI for LC.

Look up the "Ll" tek


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: som776]
    #23806226 - 11/06/16 11:33 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I do have a few hudred of these pp5 plastic pint size containers . would you recommend me do agar in this ?


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: som776]
    #23806429 - 11/06/16 12:38 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

flip them sideways while taking transfers, tall walls can make it harder than it need to be.
with a good sterile technique there's no problem.


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: som776]
    #23806526 - 11/06/16 12:59 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks space . i have a few dozen liq cultures , some have sediment at the bottom and on the glass walls, is this carmelization?
Is it still ok to use ?

Thanks guys .
Im going to buy some more agar mix with spore syringes. Is there anything else you would recommend me buy to make good clean myc , besided a flowhood , dnt have that scratch yet . should of opted into that first but i understand its still very possible without


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: som776] * 2
    #23806568 - 11/06/16 01:12 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)



--------------------

"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
-Robert A. Heinlein 

:takingnotes: Links and teks:takingnotes:
ND's grow log and discussion
Plant thread


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: som776]
    #23806752 - 11/06/16 02:08 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

som776 said:





Holy shit I'm dying :rofl2:


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: som776]
    #23806757 - 11/06/16 02:09 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks Nd step. I have this , do you think this is good . ive had success before with it transfering spores to agar.


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: som776]
    #23806766 - 11/06/16 02:12 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I....I don't know....what to say...


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: PinPornProducer] * 1
    #23807664 - 11/06/16 06:16 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

som776 said:
Thanks Nd step. I have this , do you think this is good . ive had success before with it transfering spores to agar.





Lots of great growers here, including a lot of TC's don't have a flow hood. With a good SAB and lots of practice with proper procedure you can have reliable clean cultures. One drop of spores can do countless grows, you are forcing the culture to grow on a 2d surface where contams can be spotted and clean myc can be transferred away to a new plate where it should grow clean, unlike a liquid culture where you can't tell its clean by looking at it.

I highly recommend building a good SAB like in the first link, 105 quart or better so you have plenty of room to work towards the back without reaching over your work, bigger armholes are better at least 5", bigger armholes create less air currents when you move your arms.


--------------------

"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
-Robert A. Heinlein 

:takingnotes: Links and teks:takingnotes:
ND's grow log and discussion
Plant thread


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: PinPornProducer]
    #23807786 - 11/06/16 07:00 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks nd for the solid advice without acting like a judgemental a hole .


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Re: inoculate pure manure and verm without any grains ? [Re: som776]
    #23860380 - 11/23/16 11:43 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

What do you guys think of soaking the dry manure in a sort of diluted agar then p.c. before inoculating with l.c. , since some say manure agar for pan species colonize quicker.  Has anyone tried this ??
Thanks.


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