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Shadow of magus
Stranger
Registered: 10/31/16
Posts: 78
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
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Moisture accumulation in jars
#23798395 - 11/03/16 05:15 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hello again to the great community of shroomery,
Ive been searching this site for quite sometime now prior to me even becoming a member and I just want to say I'm honored be here with this great community.
I've been encountering a problem for quite sometime now and through all my research, I have been left with more questions than answers. I've been having a problem for quite sometime now with a lot of runs on grain spawn, the accumulation of moisture.
I used a grain spawn tek by Mark Kieth who's video is right on you tube which displayed the grain in a 24 hour soak with two tablespoons of gypsum, followed by a 20 minute boil. Drain, let dry, place in jars. Now before I placed them in jars I make sure they are completely dry by letting them sit on some tissue paper to see the paper absorbs any water, they were completely dry.
I created injection ports on the lids by drilling a hole for inoculation, and one for air exchange using polyfyl filters.
All seemed to be going well first few weeks, they were colonizing at a decent rate, then they stopped and I actually saw water in jars. This definitely brought them to a hault, I don't see any contamination though. I feel like the grain are absorbing too much water and some how release it after a few weeks but I will provide pics to show what I mean. I'm thinking I'm boiling for too long.
Jar1
Jar 1
Jar 2
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Greg
always learning




Registered: 10/28/15
Posts: 1,536
Loc: an autoclave
Last seen: 3 months, 3 days
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Damn those are some nasty jars. Grain prep isn't your problem here. That's bacteria halting your colonization and causing all of the water/metabolites...
What did you inoculate them with? Did you inoculate them in open air?
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
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Re: Moisture accumulation in jars [Re: Greg]
#23798499 - 11/03/16 05:47 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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that shit yo lip has some shit on its lip son.
something else is at play here. usually if i have water in the jars its my prep that got fucked up.
honestly some people are great with grains. ive done maybe 100+ quarts in the last three months and ive had to ditch a few cause i fucked up. granted you said you checked if they were dry but unless you inoculated while taking a dump.
or did you use a dirty LC or something..??
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Shadow of magus
Stranger
Registered: 10/31/16
Posts: 78
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
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Re: Moisture accumulation in jars [Re: Greg]
#23798551 - 11/03/16 06:06 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't have a flow hood. I inoculated in a small room where I sprayed anti bacterial stuff and even isopropyl alcohol and I let it sit.
Damn, do you think they're lost?
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Still air box FTW
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Greg
always learning




Registered: 10/28/15
Posts: 1,536
Loc: an autoclave
Last seen: 3 months, 3 days
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Re: Moisture accumulation in jars [Re: Mad Season]
#23798566 - 11/03/16 06:11 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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I sure wouldn't use those grains for anything other than a trash can filler. As Mad said, use a SAB: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20048771#20048771
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Re: Moisture accumulation in jars [Re: Greg] 1
#23798571 - 11/03/16 06:11 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shadow of magus said: Hello again to the great community of shroomery,
Ive been searching this site for quite sometime now prior to me even becoming a member and I just want to say I'm honored be here with this great community.
I've been encountering a problem for quite sometime now and through all my research, I have been left with more questions than answers. I've been having a problem for quite sometime now with a lot of runs on grain spawn, the accumulation of moisture.
I used a grain spawn tek by Mark Kieth who's video is right on you tube which displayed the grain in a 24 hour soak with two tablespoons of gypsum, followed by a 20 minute boil. Drain, let dry, place in jars. Now before I placed them in jars I make sure they are completely dry by letting them sit on some tissue paper to see the paper absorbs any water, they were completely dry.
I created injection ports on the lids by drilling a hole for inoculation, and one for air exchange using polyfyl filters.
All seemed to be going well first few weeks, they were colonizing at a decent rate, then they stopped and I actually saw water in jars. This definitely brought them to a hault, I don't see any contamination though. I feel like the grain are absorbing too much water and some how release it after a few weeks but I will provide pics to show what I mean. I'm thinking I'm boiling for too long.
Jar1
Jar 1
Jar 2
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Greg
always learning




Registered: 10/28/15
Posts: 1,536
Loc: an autoclave
Last seen: 3 months, 3 days
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Re: Moisture accumulation in jars [Re: azur]
#23798575 - 11/03/16 06:12 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Azur you've sure been putting that gif to good use lately
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Re: Moisture accumulation in jars [Re: Greg]
#23798585 - 11/03/16 06:16 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Just twice so far
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Greg
always learning




Registered: 10/28/15
Posts: 1,536
Loc: an autoclave
Last seen: 3 months, 3 days
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Re: Moisture accumulation in jars [Re: azur]
#23798601 - 11/03/16 06:22 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Keep at it then
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Mycolorado
Hobbyist


Registered: 07/23/16
Posts: 8,529
Loc: Interdimensional Bootcamp
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Re: Moisture accumulation in jars [Re: azur]
#23798604 - 11/03/16 06:22 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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OP, did you sterilize them? I'm guessing you did or they'd be much worse off...was curious as you didn't note that step. Also, how old are they? Again, curious as you mention weeks... seems long even for ms straight to grain...or not.
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
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Quote:
Shadow of magus said: I don't have a flow hood. I inoculated in a small room where I sprayed anti bacterial stuff and even isopropyl alcohol and I let it sit.
Damn, do you think they're lost?
no flaming of needle? weak bruh
toss and redo. no biggie. live and learn
build a still air box. best thing you can own..besides a pc or dehydrator.
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Shadow of magus
Stranger
Registered: 10/31/16
Posts: 78
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
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Re: Moisture accumulation in jars [Re: mushboy]
#23798783 - 11/03/16 07:17 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said:
Quote:
Shadow of magus said: I don't have a flow hood. I inoculated in a small room where I sprayed anti bacterial stuff and even isopropyl alcohol and I let it sit.
Damn, do you think they're lost?
no flaming of needle? weak bruh
toss and redo. no biggie. live and learn
build a still air box. best thing you can own..besides a pc or dehydrator.
Quote:
mushboy said:
Quote:
Shadow of magus said: I don't have a flow hood. I inoculated in a small room where I sprayed anti bacterial stuff and even isopropyl alcohol and I let it sit.
Damn, do you think they're lost?
no flaming of needle? weak bruh
toss and redo. no biggie. live and learn
build a still air box. best thing you can own..besides a pc or dehydrator.
I definitely sterilized for 15 psi for one hour and I torched the needle upon inoculation, it's been about 4 weeks.
So I should toss these? Is it ok if I re use jars after boiling them for 1.5 hours?
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Mycolorado
Hobbyist


Registered: 07/23/16
Posts: 8,529
Loc: Interdimensional Bootcamp
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Just wash them and reuse.
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Kryptos
Stranger

Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,263
Last seen: 1 day, 13 minutes
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Re: Moisture accumulation in jars [Re: Mycolorado]
#23799183 - 11/03/16 09:42 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Eh, if you're PC-ing again anyway, I usually don't even bother to wash my jars. Had a bad batch of oysters contam and I left them alone for six months just to see what would happen. Was nasty (fruit loops+poop smell) when I finally tossed the grains. Soaked new grains in the jars for 48 hours without washing, PC'ed, and now I have happy and clean mycelium munching on some WBS.
If anything, I figure the dead bacterial leftovers will be more nutrients.
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Re: Moisture accumulation in jars [Re: Kryptos]
#23799225 - 11/03/16 09:56 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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I hate this kind of shitty advice. And I know most the guys on here are lazy hippies and do the same, but that doesn't make it right. When we sterilize grain, we give ourselves a window of opportunity because we cannot kill everything. Therefore, we should wipe our asses as clean as possible.
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Shadow of magus
Stranger
Registered: 10/31/16
Posts: 78
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
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Re: Moisture accumulation in jars [Re: azur]
#23799771 - 11/04/16 05:23 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Thanks guys, hopefully I can redeem myself to you guys and myself with a good successful batch.
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Kryptos
Stranger

Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,263
Last seen: 1 day, 13 minutes
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Re: Moisture accumulation in jars [Re: azur]
#23801260 - 11/04/16 05:21 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
azur said: I hate this kind of shitty advice. And I know most the guys on here are lazy hippies and do the same, but that doesn't make it right. When we sterilize grain, we give ourselves a window of opportunity because we cannot kill everything. Therefore, we should wipe our asses as clean as possible.
I guess this depends on sterilization procedures. I'm fairly certain you're more skilled than I am, since I've followed your advice in the past, but at the same time, my tester jar (First thing I PCed when I got my presto ~18 months back) is still completely free of any kind of growth or contamination. It was allowed to ferment for 72 hours, and I added some yard dirt to it before PC cycle to make it extra contaminated. I'm pretty confident that my PC cycle kills *everything* as there has been absolutely no change in that jar over a period longer than a year.
My PC cycle, for reference: 15 psi, one and a half hours, timer starts when PC reaches pressure and heat is turned off when timer ends. PC is left to cool on the same stovetop where it was heated, so it ends up staying at 15 psi for 1:45-2 hours.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Moisture accumulation in jars [Re: Kryptos]
#23801305 - 11/04/16 05:35 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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If there's any endospores in your grains, they're not truly sterile with an 18 psi and 1.45-2 hr cycle. I wonder what your 1 year old jar smells like.. if it's all good, thank your source for not using endospore pesticides, not your PC cycle
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Moisture accumulation in jars [Re: Mad Season]
#23801549 - 11/04/16 06:58 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Endospores are killed in 15m at 15 psi in aqueous media. But in grains or bulk matter you almost never achieve complete sterilization. Contamination may not germinate right away or ever or until some conditions are met. But don't think that 15 psi 90 minutes sterilized grains completely
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