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InvisibleCelestial Traveler
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Good translation of Plato's Republic?
    #23797947 - 11/03/16 02:54 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Trying to become a more avid reader and figure that reading some classical texts is a good place to begin.  I want to read Plato's Republic for example, but there are so many translations to choose from.  Advice on which translation(s) are best (and why you think so) would be much appreciated.  Also please keep in mind that the selections at my local university library might be limited.


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OfflineLucisM
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Re: Good translation of Plato's Republic? [Re: Celestial Traveler]
    #23798640 - 11/03/16 06:35 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Can't you find a good pdf or something online?

Edit:  Now you got me researching this, I just pulled up the Allan Bloom version.  I was reading about Socrates the other day, and was fascinated, so Plato seems like a good place to continue on to.


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Edited by Lucis (11/03/16 06:44 PM)


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Good translation of Plato's Republic? [Re: Lucis]
    #23798663 - 11/03/16 06:41 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Allan Bloom is a good trans. but controversial.


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OfflineLucisM
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Re: Good translation of Plato's Republic? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23798684 - 11/03/16 06:45 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
but controversial.





Why?  I just opened that one up, what's wrong with it.:uhoh:


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Good translation of Plato's Republic? [Re: Lucis] * 1
    #23798747 - 11/03/16 07:04 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

translators have a dealio with the "literal translation" -- but i like the literal translation.

"Socrates, I guess you two are [hurrying to get away to town]?"

"that's not a bad guess."

this section is translated as such, and the contention is that this literal interpretation of Socrates leads to a lack of the "actual meaning" of his words, -- which i contend is absurd. i'd recommend it and the essay.


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InvisibleCelestial Traveler
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Re: Good translation of Plato's Republic? [Re: Lucis]
    #23798842 - 11/03/16 07:34 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I Googled this subject before I asked about it here, and supposedly from the couple of sources I read, there is a trade-off in every translation between literality/substance and readability.  Some translations are easier to read for "noobs" like me, but are more modern translations and lose some important context along the way.  I was hoping for someone to tell me this wasn't true and that I could have the best of both worlds.

I don't mind a hard read that constantly forces me to Google something or look for an answer online as long as it's doable in the end.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Good translation of Plato's Republic? [Re: Celestial Traveler]
    #23798879 - 11/03/16 07:44 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

the translation is good, it makes sense, it's english...if a word is untranslatable it can be searched, though there is nothing like that, either - i'm just saying (but it's all basically understood as what the transliteration literally is -- ie, as little "interpretation" into our english idioms as possible.)


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Good translation of Plato's Republic? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23800468 - 11/04/16 11:58 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

the translation by Benjamin Jowett is regarded as both readable and transmitting near the original meaning and substance of Plato's thought and writings.  I own a copy, and it is magnificent.

please try it and let me know!  i think its superb.  You'll be able to, with the help of looking into a dicitonary while reading it , get the essence of the grand vision that is the Republic!


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Edited by The Blind Ass (11/04/16 12:00 PM)


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InvisibleKurt
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Re: Good translation of Plato's Republic? [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23800621 - 11/04/16 01:01 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Wow, I have heard Benjamin Jowett called a few things but this is the first time I have heard magnificent. :lol:


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Good translation of Plato's Republic? [Re: Kurt]
    #23800630 - 11/04/16 01:07 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

not him, the Republic is magnificent.  His translation is Ok.  Dont shoot the messenger. He gets the premise, its props, and con just fine.  If you wana be pedantic find another guy.


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InvisibleCelestial Traveler
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Re: Good translation of Plato's Republic? [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23801991 - 11/04/16 10:04 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

See, this is exactly what I'm talking about.  There's so much variation in the responses to this question.  I've found the exact same situation elsewhere, where some people praise the Jowett translation and other people say it's a piece of crap.


I want to read this book (and many other classical texts) but I want to do it right!


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Good translation of Plato's Republic? [Re: Celestial Traveler]
    #23802327 - 11/05/16 01:36 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Dude read it, stop doing that thing ur doing.  Just read it.  You can later read another copy and it'll fill in the gaps. Jowett is just fine... well thats because I am a learned man and can do some of the heavy lifting on my own up in the noggin.  Some people want Plato to spoon feed it to them and so dispute translation heavily ...but really its just being pedantic.  Most copies are fine.  If you get a shit one somehow (idk how but im sure u could find one )  youll know if your bright by comparing it to another and having a moment of clarity.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Good translation of Plato's Republic? [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23802332 - 11/05/16 01:40 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Look i Bet that guy couldn't come up with 10 good criticisms DISPUTING fucking Jowetts translations...because in the end thats what your doing ...disputing translations. I hate when people do this, seriously guy try me 10 criticisms without using google to copy and paste or rehash someone elses criticisms (which if u do find is some super academia guy doing what they do best, getting the finest details down to pat - which really would not come to bear much difference in most all cases considering Jowetts ability)  Dont shoot the messenger, Iv read it and others have and we got the message, its a grand vision and you cant condense what the Republic is into some accurate and descriptive synopsis like other works.


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InvisiblePatrickKn
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Re: Good translation of Plato's Republic? [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23802437 - 11/05/16 03:47 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Seems the solution is simple. Hold off on reading The Republic until you have mastered the Greek language, and insist on the oldest copy you can muster when you have.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Good translation of Plato's Republic? [Re: PatrickKn] * 1
    #23802503 - 11/05/16 05:19 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Jowett christianises the effect of the Republic. it's not very Greek of him to do.


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InvisibleCelestial Traveler
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Re: Good translation of Plato's Republic? [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23802822 - 11/05/16 09:32 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
Dude read it, stop doing that thing ur doing.  Just read it.  You can later read another copy and it'll fill in the gaps. Jowett is just fine... well thats because I am a learned man and can do some of the heavy lifting on my own up in the noggin.  Some people want Plato to spoon feed it to them and so dispute translation heavily ...but really its just being pedantic.  Most copies are fine.  If you get a shit one somehow (idk how but im sure u could find one )  youll know if your bright by comparing it to another and having a moment of clarity.




We'll I'm a noob reader myself, and I want to start reading lots of books, and I don't want to spend several years reading different translations of the same book (I'm an egregiously slow reader), so I will look for the Jowett translation at my library because you are so vocal about it.  However if they don't have that translation, is there a runner-up that you would recommend?

Thanks for your help by the way.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Good translation of Plato's Republic? [Re: Celestial Traveler]
    #23803521 - 11/05/16 02:18 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I have one by W.H.D. Rouse that's good, the Signet Classic version.  Here's the amazon link:  https://www.amazon.com/Great-Dialogues-Plato/dp/0451471709/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1478377047&sr=1-1&keywords=great+dialogues+of+plato+signet+classic .

I've always thought it to be an excellent translation.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Good translation of Plato's Republic? [Re: Celestial Traveler]
    #23803966 - 11/05/16 05:02 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Celestial Traveler said:
Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
Dude read it, stop doing that thing ur doing.  Just read it.  You can later read another copy and it'll fill in the gaps. Jowett is just fine... well thats because I am a learned man and can do some of the heavy lifting on my own up in the noggin.  Some people want Plato to spoon feed it to them and so dispute translation heavily ...but really its just being pedantic.  Most copies are fine.  If you get a shit one somehow (idk how but im sure u could find one )  youll know if your bright by comparing it to another and having a moment of clarity.




We'll I'm a noob reader myself, and I want to start reading lots of books, and I don't want to spend several years reading different translations of the same book (I'm an egregiously slow reader), so I will look for the Jowett translation at my library because you are so vocal about it.  However if they don't have that translation, is there a runner-up that you would recommend?

Thanks for your help by the way.




I have 2 copies.  Jowett's is an easier read to the man from the modern judeo-christian west. 

The Collected Dialogues of Plato: Including the Letters edited by Edith Hamilton and Huntington Cairns , Bollingen Series LXXI - Princeton University Press - is the 2nd.  In it the Republic is translated by Paul Shorey. 

If your under 30 yrs old maybe try Jowett first. But have a dictionary on hand while reading it.
And if your looking in a library i Doubt they have the 2nd its more rare.  So go with Jowett or what that other guy said, Signet Classic Version , but i haven't read that one.


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Edited by The Blind Ass (11/05/16 05:03 PM)


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Invisiblemillzy
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Re: Good translation of Plato's Republic? [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23806090 - 11/06/16 10:53 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

sterling and scott's translation of republic is by far the easiest to read.

i would also recommend reading articles about the text itself. verity harte's work has influenced my reading of plato the most.


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InvisibleCelestial Traveler
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Re: Good translation of Plato's Republic? [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23806255 - 11/06/16 11:40 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks to all for advice.  Just a question - should I be fretting over the translation that much?  I mean, is it really going to make such a huge difference which one I read first?

I think my library has an online copy of the Jowett translation, I'm going to go back and check this week.


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