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OfflineHedonist
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Registered: 08/06/14
Posts: 114
Last seen: 7 years, 26 days
categorizing racism
    #23791442 - 11/01/16 01:53 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

So some time ago I wrote in a post that everyone is racist.  We're ever closet racists or open about it.  I feel it is necessary to categorise the different types of racism.  Because at the moment it is just an umbrella term.  And conflates things that don't need to be conflated.
So here goes.

Race realism.  If you believe ,or assign different attributes to different races.  And believe there to be a general difference in temperament, and that this difference is biological.

Racal profiling and stereotyping. 
We've all done this.  And all races do it.
The human brain is designed to notice patterns.
I may notice for instance that Asians have lots of discipline and patience.  I may notice that blacks are generally impulsive.

Though whites incidentally are the only race,  people try to catch out and guilt trip for it.

Then there is in group preference, and altruism.  As it is known in evolution.  Basically, it makes sense for an organism to sacrifice itself for relatives and more closely related organisms.  Because you're genes can be passed on by proxy. 
You are more closely related to people of the same race and ethnicity, Than people outside it. We evolved tribalism over time.  Not just as individuals but as groups.
Most if not all people have an in group preference. 
But this is taboo for whites to display.


And then there is race hate.
Hating someone for no reason ,other than their race.
 
Lastly I'd like to address supremacism.

Most race realists aren't supremacist in the sense that they believe one group is superior to all other groups in every respect.
Rather, they believe different groups to be superior at different things.

But you do get supremacists who believe a person of one race,has less right to life as someone of a superior race.  But this type of racist isn't very common.

Those are the types of racism.  And not every racist is a supremacist or hate full. It depends on the type of racism.

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Invisiblephio


Registered: 10/07/16
Posts: 369
Re: categorizing racism [Re: Hedonist]
    #23791634 - 11/01/16 02:59 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

First lets unroll this a little bit and center on the given definition of Racism :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism
Racism is a product of the complex interaction in a given society of a race-based worldview with prejudice, stereotyping, and discrimination. Racism can be present in social actions, practices, or political systems (e.g., apartheid) that support the expression of prejudice or aversion in discriminatory practices. The ideology underlying racist practices often includes the idea that humans can be subdivided into distinct groups that are different in their social behavior and innate capacities and that can be ranked as inferior or superior.[1] Racist ideology can become manifest in many aspects of social life. Associated social actions may include xenophobia, otherness, segregation, hierarchical ranking, supremacism, and related social phenomena.

Racism typically is manifested by those who maintain the dominant share of power in a given situation... It's important to remember this. You can be prejudiced and stereotype .. we all do.. That doesn't mean that you maintain the power to manifest a social order and norm of supremacy and inferiority based on race.. This is where racism comes in.

So, as for your post.. No, not everyone is racist as not everyone maintains the power to enact racist social practices which enforces inferiority.

Yes, we all generalize, are biased, and prejudiced ... However, there are always exceptions to the general rule and when you accept an exception, you serve to not manifest such prejudice.

So, let me dig in to your commentary ...

Quote:


Race realism.  If you believe ,or assign different attributes to different races.  And believe there to be a general difference in temperament, and that this difference is biological.




There is only one race.. It's the human race. The most sound theory traces the human race's origins to Africa : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recent_African_origin_of_modern_humans

Some people in the human race are darker than others due to have spent more time away from the equator in which their bodies reduced their melanin count to absorb more sunlight for which the body needs to produce Vitamin D and remain healthy. People closer to the equator developed more melanin (darker skin) color in order to defend against an overabundance of light.

Culture is culture and isn't biological. Race realism is dogma and ignorant and not grounded in biology or science.

Quote:


Racal profiling and stereotyping. 
We've all done this.  And all races do it.
The human brain is designed to notice patterns.




Sure. Agreed... However, if you detect an exception, would should adjust accordingly. Maintaining an application of general observations even when there is a conflict/exception is rooted in ignorance.

Quote:


I may notice for instance that Asians have lots of discipline and patience.  I may notice that blacks are generally impulsive.




Old Asian culture is centered on discipline and patience. New modern asian culture not so much. Those exposed to different cultures behave differently. Blacks? You mean people with more melanin in their skin? There are indians who are darker than some Africans... Culturally, in america, you may observe, due to having been stripped of their culture/language, that African Americans, in impoverished conditions, act impulsively but you see its a very narrow grouping. There's a reason why one has to 'act quickly' and decisively in risky and tough environments. The understanding is rooted in developmental psychology and sociology not biology.  Again, one must identify and shed the layers of ignorance to rise out of such a lower minded perceptions of the world.

Quote:


Though whites incidentally are the only race,  people try to catch out and guilt trip for it.




The only race is the human race and the most prominent theory suggests the human race originated from Africa and migrated outward. People really need to get a grip and grow out of foolish mindsets.

Quote:


Then there is in group preference, and altruism.  As it is known in evolution.  Basically, it makes sense for an organism to sacrifice itself for relatives and more closely related organisms.  Because you're genes can be passed on by proxy. 




Ok.... And this is a social construct that varies across cultures.

Quote:


You are more closely related to people of the same race and ethnicity, Than people outside it. We evolved tribalism over time.  Not just as individuals but as groups.
Most if not all people have an in group preference. 




:beerbag: You're losing me bud ... and your slant is showing...
There is the human race. All humans belong to the same race.
There are different ethnicities, skin colors, and cultures.
There are exceptions to every generality. Not everyone identifies with their ethnic group. In modern society, I'm not sure what that even means. So yeah, people have group preferences, they change at different stages in their lives, vary based on the context, and are ever changing. More and more these group preferences have little to do with ethnic groupings.

Quote:

But this is taboo for whites to display.




K, you're back on this white thing. I'm assuming you're talking about America.. Ok, right.. lets go with that. Close your eyes and take a look around at American society. 'American culture' is dominated by 'Caucasian' ethnic group norms (currently). So, given this and that the country is composed of a melting pot of ethnic groups .. It is taboo to over emphasize this dominance... If a different ethnic group comes to maintain the dominant culture in america, it would be equally taboo for them to overemphasize their dominance... Do you  understand why?

Quote:


And then there is race hate.
Hating someone for no reason ,other than their race.




Racism essentially. Hate comes in many forms.
 
Quote:


Lastly I'd like to address supremacism.




Ok so : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supremacism

Quote:


Most race realists aren't supremacist in the sense that they believe one group is superior to all other groups in every respect.
Rather, they believe different groups to be superior at different things.




So racism vs supremacism .. Yeah, that's the definition


Quote:


But you do get supremacists who believe a person of one race,has less right to life as someone of a superior race.  But this type of racist isn't very common.

Those are the types of racism.  And not every racist is a supremacist or hate full. It depends on the type of racism.




Racism is rooted in ignorance and supremacism is an even more extreme ignorance.
Not everyone is racist (ignorant). Everyone discriminates, generalizes, and has biases.. It's a form of intelligence. When exceptions occur, the non-ignorant person recognizes it and acts accordingly, the ignorant racist ignores the exception, refers to a primitive generalization, acts based on it, and further cements their ignorance.

Ignorant : lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.

Racist practices reflects on an individual's self-embodied ignorance and says little to nothing about outside world around them.

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: categorizing racism [Re: Hedonist]
    #23791652 - 11/01/16 03:07 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

trump voter?


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OfflineNeo-Heretic
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Registered: 11/02/16
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Re: categorizing racism [Re: phio] * 3
    #23794333 - 11/02/16 11:24 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I'll try to address this point by point. I won't quote you as that would clutter up my post and make it longer than it already is.

First off, the Wikipedia definition is but one definition of racism among many, which was the point OP made to begin with. Why is it called racism only if you have power? If a black person decides to beat and rob white people just because they're white, isn't he committing acts of racial violence? Sure, he might not have any institutional power but that doesn't make any difference for his victims. The SJW definition of racism as prejudice+power that they think discredits the notion that non-whites can be racist towards whites also has a bunch of un-examined premises that needs to be brought into the light. Lets also assume that they mean the USA, because if they imply that the whole world works this way leads to even more issues. This definition assumes that whites have all the power in society and leaves every other race by the wayside. This obviously isn't true when there is a powerful Black caucus in congress and a black president. Also, it's difficult to claim that the US has huge issues with systematic racism when Asian Americans out-earn white Americans. How can they rise to such societal heights if the white supremacist system is the dominant power structure? If you read the rest of this post, you might find out.

As for your claim that there is only one race, the human race, this is simply false. Human beings can indeed be categorized based on ancestry. The wikipedia-article linked stated that humans migrated out of Africa roughly 50 000-100 000 years ago. This is plenty of time for human races, or subspecies (the scientific term used in biology) of humans to evolve as an adaptation to their respective environments. It is often unclear in biology where the lines for subspecies are drawn, hence the confusion when it comes to human races. Biologists have also had an aversion to studying race and racial differences to to its' supposed dark history. There is an enormous pressure on modern scientist to ignore these questions.

Scientists used to only be able to study phenotypic differences when it came to race, and a large part of studied done on it before modern large scale genetic studies can be fairly categorized as pseudoscience. Surely you are aware of services like 23andMe which gives users the ability to trace their ancestry by analyzing their DNA. It does so with such accuracy that it can trace what specific parts of Europe you are from and the percentage of admixture you have. It does so by comparing your DNA to the genotypes that inhabit these parts of the world today. That means that there must be genetic differences between human populations, also known as races. If it was completely arbitrary and based on prejudice, a specific phenotype would not correspond to a genotype as it does. So in short, race is a human categorization corresponding to both genotypes and phenotypes. You could argue that certain definitions of race are arbitrary (white, black) but that doesn't disprove the genetic basis of it.

Now, why does this all matter? My argument for this is twofold, I believe that races differ significantly in attributes such as intelligence and aggressiveness and that these differences are to some extent genetic in origin. I also believe that human beings are born with an ethnic and racial consciousness which means that they are happier and function better when they live with people like them, i.e. people of their own racial or ethnic identity.

For the first part of that, I'll refer to the 100s of years of IQ-studies that have been done showing that different racial groups score differently on IQ-tests. We know that IQ correlates with life success in a significant way (http://www.iq-tests.eu/iq-test-Practical-validity-800.html). We also know that IQ is closely related to intelligence, which is largely heritable (http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/more-proof-that-intelligence-is-85134).
This is a great resource for how races differ in the US on IQ-tests: http://thealternativehypothesis.org/index.php/2016/04/15/iqs-of-races-in-the-united-states/. Another indispensable source on this subject is The Bell Curve written by Charles Murray and Richard Herrnstein. Another source is IQ and The Wealth of Nations, but this can be questioned as different countries have environments of development that differs enough that it can make a huge difference in the IQ-test results which this book didn't take into account. The methods used in the book has also been questioned. Here are the results in question: https://iq-research.info/en/page/average-iq-by-country. Take it with a grain of salt.

For the second part, the claim that people function better when in a monoethnic society I'll refer to this source: http://thealternativehypothesis.org/index.php/2016/04/15/ethnic-diversity-and-social-cohesion/. In short, people associate more with people who are more genetically similar with them even within their ethnic group, diversity is negatively correlated with GDP and general happiness, social capital and trust and other important factors and people self-segregate when given the chance, which churches in the US demonstrates (90 % of all churches are 90 % racially homogeneous) http://www.relevantmagazine.com/current/church%E2%80%99s-race-problem.

So to bring it back to where I started, it seems clear to me that asian americans out-earn white americans not because of injustice on either part, but because they have a higher average IQ than white americans. It could also be because of selection bias, that the brighter asians move to America and leave the dimmer ones behind, but IQ-studies from their respective home countries correspond to their IQ-scores, similar to how white american IQ-scores correlate to their European nations of origin.

This leaves me with the conclusion that race is real and that there are biological differences between the races. I hope you realize that my positions are not based in hatred but in a serious examination of the facts and data and taking them to their ultimate conclusion. I do not think that whites are superior, but prefer to live among them as I am white myself and consider myself as part of that group. I hope you take this post seriously and consider what I wrote with intellectual curiosity and honesty and not just dismiss it as racist drivel.

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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: categorizing racism [Re: Neo-Heretic]
    #23794391 - 11/02/16 11:50 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I have to say, that is a very thoughtful post.  I have often wondered whether, since there are different breeds of the same species of dog, might it not be appropriate to view different human groups in the same light?  Call me crazy.


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Invisiblephio


Registered: 10/07/16
Posts: 369
Re: categorizing racism [Re: Neo-Heretic]
    #23794457 - 11/02/16 12:22 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Neo-Heretic said:
Why is it called racism only if you have power?




Because that's the definition of racism. It's a form of racial prejudice and discrimination practiced at an institutional and social level by the ruling powered ethnic group... Otherwise, it is racial prejudice or discrimination. So, there's a word to describe it being practiced at an institutional and social level. What's your problem with that? A word was created for a specific form of something...

If there is a social norm of racial discrimination in China, it would be racism by ethnic Chinese...

Quote:

Neo-Heretic said:
If a black person decides to beat and rob white people just because they're white, isn't he committing acts of racial violence? Sure, he might not have any institutional power but that doesn't make any difference for his victims.




It isn't practiced at the institutional level and thus its not racism. It's called racial violence instead which is a hate crime. It shouldn't make a difference as there's a word for what the person did... Are you trying to assign another word unrelated to it as well? Why? because society has ran around incorrectly using racism for many years? Stop it and start using the right words.

Quote:

Neo-Heretic said:
The SJW definition of racism as prejudice+power that they think discredits the notion that non-whites can be racist towards whites also has a bunch of un-examined premises that needs to be brought into the light.




Not really... and what I referred to is not an SJW definition. It is 'the' definition. Non-whites (in America) can be racially prejudiced and discriminate against whites. What's the big hang up? Again, you seem to irrationally want to use racism just because you think it holds more weight.. It doesn't. Get over it.

Quote:

Neo-Heretic said:
Lets also assume that they mean the USA, because if they imply that the whole world works this way leads to even more issues. This definition assumes that whites have all the power in society and leaves every other race by the wayside. This obviously isn't true when there is a powerful Black caucus in congress and a black president. Also, it's difficult to claim that the US has huge issues with systematic racism when Asian Americans out-earn white Americans. How can they rise to such societal heights if the white supremacist system is the dominant power structure? If you read the rest of this post, you might find out.




Words exists for a reason. I'm sorry that you don't like that racism means something specific and isn't a catch-all term for people acting out racial prejudice. It isn't difficult to claim anything given American's history. That isn't to say it will remain that way with the very changing nature of the country...

Quote:

Neo-Heretic said:
As for your claim that there is only one race, the human race, this is simply false. Human beings can indeed be categorized based on ancestry. The wikipedia-article linked stated that humans migrated out of Africa roughly 50 000-100 000 years ago. This is plenty of time for human races, or subspecies (the scientific term used in biology) of humans to evolve as an adaptation to their respective environments. It is often unclear in biology where the lines for subspecies are drawn, hence the confusion when it comes to human races. Biologists have also had an aversion to studying race and racial differences to to its' supposed dark history. There is an enormous pressure on modern scientist to ignore these questions.




It isn't unclear. There is one race. Within the human race are different ethnic groups as there aren't genetic or biological designations worthy of functional distinction between different groups. There is no magical dark history. Genetics is a widely covered and advanced science especially the human genome and its history thus why the most sound modern anthropological theory traces the human race's roots to Africa.

Some of the most ignorance racist feel there is a biological difference between them and others that makes them superior. Some don't even consciously know the root motivation for maintaining this view. Are you stating a view that science refutes? If so, ask yourself why. Would you maintain this view if you weren't white? Probably not. What about the dumb white people? Did evolution skip them? This is easily pieced apart my friend.


Quote:

Neo-Heretic said:
Scientists used to only be able to study phenotypic differences when it came to race, and a large part of studied done on it before modern large scale genetic studies can be fairly categorized as pseudoscience. Surely you are aware of services like 23andMe which gives users the ability to trace their ancestry by analyzing their DNA. It does so with such accuracy that it can trace what specific parts of Europe you are from and the percentage of admixture you have. It does so by comparing your DNA to the genotypes that inhabit these parts of the world today. That means that there must be genetic differences between human populations, also known as races.




Yeah like skin color : http://hmg.oxfordjournals.org/content/18/R1/R9.full
Eye color : http://www.gbhealthwatch.com/Trait-Eye-Color.php
Eyelid fold : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicanthic_fold

Are there deeper genetic variances that are consistent w.r.t to neurological function? No.
You're mom's diet is more likely to influence your genes :
http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2014/04/29/307787984/moms-diet-right-before-pregnancy-can-alter-babys-genes

So please cut out the foolishness.

Quote:

Neo-Heretic said:

If it was completely arbitrary and based on prejudice, a specific phenotype would not correspond to a genotype as it does. So in short, race is a human categorization corresponding to both genotypes and phenotypes. You could argue that certain definitions of race are arbitrary (white, black) but that doesn't disprove the genetic basis of it.




There is none. Most sound scientists and geneticists disagree.

Quote:

Neo-Heretic said:
Now, why does this all matter? My argument for this is twofold, I believe that races differ significantly in attributes such as intelligence and aggressiveness and that these differences are to some extent genetic in origin. I also believe that human beings are born with an ethnic and racial consciousness which means that they are happier and function better when they live with people like them, i.e. people of their own racial or ethnic identity.




That's a cool belief. It isn't backed by science. If your mom is exposed to stressful conditions while you're in the womb that is more likely to be the reason as to why you're aggressive than ethnic gene variance.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3710585/
The genetic influences are environmental and closer to home than some long standing trace related to human evolution and silly distinctions on skin color.


Quote:

Neo-Heretic said:
For the first part of that, I'll refer to the 100s of years of IQ-studies that have been done showing that different racial groups score differently on IQ-tests. We know that IQ correlates with life success in a significant way (http://www.iq-tests.eu/iq-test-Practical-validity-800.html). We also know that IQ is closely related to intelligence, which is largely heritable (http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/more-proof-that-intelligence-is-85134).
This is a great resource for how races differ in the US on IQ-tests: http://thealternativehypothesis.org/index.php/2016/04/15/iqs-of-races-in-the-united-states/.




Was the cause nature or nurture? Is an intelligence test developed by a specific ethnic group conforming to their cultural view of intelligence unbiased and a true measure of intelligence?

IQ tests are invalid w.r.t to measuring intelligence as there are many forms of it that it doesn't capture. It is a biased test and it establishes no casual link beyond a narrow vector or statistical correlation.. Moving on to your next comment...

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/05/why-people-keep-misunderstanding-the-connection-between-race-and-iq/275876/

Quote:

Neo-Heretic said:
Another indispensable source on this subject is The Bell Curve written by Charles Murray and Richard Herrnstein. Another source is IQ and The Wealth of Nations, but this can be questioned as different countries have environments of development that differs enough that it can make a huge difference in the IQ-test results which this book didn't take into account. The methods used in the book has also been questioned. Here are the results in question: https://iq-research.info/en/page/average-iq-by-country. Take it with a grain of salt.




I've done work in Grad school centered on this topic. I take it with more than a grain of salt. I consider it invalid and biased. Just because its socially excepted as some pinnacle measure of intelligence because people aren't educated enough to know its shortcomings doesn't mean ultimately carriers anymore weight than what it does.

Quote:

Neo-Heretic said:
For the second part, the claim that people function better when in a monoethnic society I'll refer to this source: http://thealternativehypothesis.org/index.php/2016/04/15/ethnic-diversity-and-social-cohesion/. In short, people associate more with people who are more genetically similar with them even within their ethnic group, diversity is negatively correlated with GDP and general happiness, social capital and trust and other important factors and people self-segregate when given the chance, which churches in the US demonstrates (90 % of all churches are 90 % racially homogeneous) http://www.relevantmagazine.com/current/church%E2%80%99s-race-problem.




Correlation is not causation. Interestingly, a particular ethnic group loves using statistics which don't provide much insight and fail often times when it comes to intuitive meaning. I wonder what intelligence test measures that. Anyway, I'm not going to allow my comments to get dragged into the mud. Statistical correlation is not causation and speaks to no higher understanding.

Quote:

Neo-Heretic said:
So to bring it back to where I started, it seems clear to me that asian americans out-earn white americans not because of injustice on either part, but because they have a higher average IQ than white americans.




Incorrect. It's due to their culture and due to the fact that there are 3 billion chinese people for instance while America's population is around 300 million. Those Asians who are able to come to the U.S and study at top schools as international students represent very wealthy and affluent asian families. One aspect of the skew comes from there. Another aspect is eastern culture vs western culture that prizes education more. All behavioral and social.. Nature vs. Nurture. IQ tests don't define the casual link.

Quote:

Neo-Heretic said:
It could also be because of selection bias, that the brighter asians move to America and leave the dimmer ones behind, but IQ-studies from their respective home countries correspond to their IQ-scores, similar to how white american IQ-scores correlate to their European nations of origin.




Umm yeah, it's a portion as to why the skew exists...
Lies. Dam lies and statistics.

Quote:

Neo-Heretic said:
This leaves me with the conclusion that race is real and that there are biological differences between the races. I hope you realize that my positions are not based in hatred but in a serious examination of the facts and data and taking them to their ultimate conclusion. I do not think that whites are superior, but prefer to live among them as I am white myself and consider myself as part of that group. I hope you take this post seriously and consider what I wrote with intellectual curiosity and honesty and not just dismiss it as racist drivel.



Unfounded conclusion and I question why you so heavily believe in an assertion that isn't backed by science.

Indeed you have you preference... Others have theres. There are some white people who prefer to be around black people. There are some black people who prefer to be around white people. There are some asians who hate asian culture.

I've been down this road in formal education and via my own inquiries. It leads to nowhere other than uncovering ones own biases. Best of wishes to you in your journey of discovery.

Also, welcome to the board. I'm happy that my post brought you to the forum.
:nicesmile:

Edited by phio (11/02/16 12:43 PM)

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Offlinebeforethedawn
Registered: 06/19/16
Posts: 1,859
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
Re: categorizing racism [Re: phio] * 2
    #23794832 - 11/02/16 03:00 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah I've noticed differences that are obvious between what we call races, but if you hate anyone or anything you are clueless. Really, you just don't get it.

If you like your race and you want to show what it's made of live a full, happy, loving, productive life. Then no one can argue when they see you. Well done, now people think your race is cool.

Maybe.

They might just like the clothes you're wearing.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: categorizing racism [Re: Hedonist]
    #23794895 - 11/02/16 03:27 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I would like to take this moment to interject and draw everyone's attention to how good humans are at categorizing things.  Virtually all knowledge is derived from patterns of difference between various (all) types of things.  It seems that a logical conclusion to this general predilection among humans is a categorizing of humanity itself with the overt visual differences (skin color, eye shape, etc.) as the parameters.  This tendency can be overcome on an individual basis through the application of will, but if the process is natural, it seems to me very difficult to overcome on a population basis.  Perhaps changing the parameters to genomic differences might make apparent the abundance of similarity between the "races", but then again, it might just serve to divide humanity into even smaller slices.  Thats always assuming people bother to become educated about genetics at all.  Anyhow, that's my two cents.  Carry on.


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InvisibletHEfLY
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Re: categorizing racism [Re: ballsalsa] * 2
    #23794920 - 11/02/16 03:39 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

The racism=power+prejudice thing is a marxist idea that goes back I believe to Leon Trotsky. It's a way of rallying different minority groups together in struggle against the host culture and the fact that it's considered the official definition of the word only proves how influential marxist ideology has become in our modern western societies. If you tell a group of people that the only reason they aren't successful is because another group of people is deliberately holding them down it will naturally create animosity, which is the intention.

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: categorizing racism [Re: tHEfLY]
    #23795014 - 11/02/16 04:06 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

this is a typical smug racist deconstruction of humanism.
the good part of humanity is that it can embrace abstract thinking if it makes effort.
racism is not abstract thinking.
it is mis-identification of all non-family as dangerous
it leads to inbreeding and more stupidity.
adding abstract thinking to racism is a immoral


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InvisibletHEfLY
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Re: categorizing racism [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23795223 - 11/02/16 05:09 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I can't figure out how any of that is related to my post. The sense of victim-hood and futility created by the concept of racism is not helpful when trying to lift people out of poverty. It only creates resentment and further problems that certain entities like to take advantage of.

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Invisiblephio


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Posts: 369
Re: categorizing racism [Re: tHEfLY]
    #23795241 - 11/02/16 05:14 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

tHEfLY said:
I can't figure out how any of that is related to my post. The sense of victim-hood and futility created by the concept of racism is not helpful when trying to lift people out of poverty. It only creates resentment and further problems that certain entities like to take advantage of.



Meh', racism is real.
You can indicate it exists and what its effects are without falling victim to it or maintaining a victim mentality.

Realistically noting that something is an uphill battle allows one to adjust their relative trajectory to surmount it properly. You'd be a fool and set for failure otherwise.

Resentment, victim-hood, and victim mentalities w.r.t to the conditions of a social environment are side shows.

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InvisibletHEfLY
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Registered: 04/16/16
Posts: 427
Re: categorizing racism [Re: phio]
    #23795562 - 11/02/16 06:52 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

phio said:
Meh', racism is real.
You can indicate it exists and what its effects are without falling victim to it or maintaining a victim mentality.





Ok, but many people actually do this, with all the manufactured hysteria?

I suppose it's exactly what black people were already doing in America, simply as a matter of common sense, before the 1960's - when their unemployment and illegitamacy rates were roughly equal with those of whites. What happened since then? I don't think Americans have become increasingly more racist over the decades.

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Invisiblephio


Registered: 10/07/16
Posts: 369
Re: categorizing racism [Re: tHEfLY]
    #23795710 - 11/02/16 08:01 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

tHEfLY said:
Ok, but many people actually do this, with all the manufactured hysteria?




Well, how many people avoid ignorantly thinking someone with more melanin is less than them? I mean, the world's is a fucked up silly ass place... lol


Quote:

tHEfLY said:
I suppose it's exactly what black people were already doing in America, simply as a matter of common sense, before the 1960's - when their unemployment and illegitamacy rates were roughly equal with those of whites. What happened since then? I don't think Americans have become increasingly more racist over the decades.



I agree. Race relations were getting better in the 90s and early 2000s.
We made a u-turn on a lot of things in this country for the worse. Sadly it's just the cyclical nature of the world.. Things start getting good and going good and it seemingly triggers people to fuck it up again via a lack of connection to what it takes to make things good.

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Offlinebeforethedawn
Registered: 06/19/16
Posts: 1,859
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
Re: categorizing racism [Re: phio]
    #23796870 - 11/03/16 07:51 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I can't believe we fight over it to be honest, I can't believe we have to start whole movements to balance out the pointless fight.

I can't believe anything humanity is doing.

Except maybe gardening TV shows. They make sense.


--------------------
Hostile humankind
Can't you see you're fucking blind?

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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: categorizing racism [Re: redgreenvines] * 2
    #23798528 - 11/03/16 05:57 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
...
racism is not abstract thinking.
it is mis-identification of all non-family as dangerous
it leads to inbreeding and more stupidity.
...




A (so called white) child wonders how do you see dirt easily on black skin
this is normal
but the child has no hatred
it is simply curious

One might wonder if east Asians have different knee joints so they can sit full lotus, or Eskimos different digestion to survive without green vegitables. Black skin is advantageous for the tropics, and white skin is advantageous for manufacturing vitamin D in the lower sunlit north.

It is simple, the whole racism business is about a nasty heart justifying, behaving meanly. Exploring differences is harmless if our hearts are open.

Edited by laughingdog (11/03/16 05:59 PM)

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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,851
Re: categorizing racism [Re: laughingdog]
    #23798762 - 11/03/16 07:08 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
Quote:

redgreenvines said:
...
racism is not abstract thinking.
it is mis-identification of all non-family as dangerous
it leads to inbreeding and more stupidity.
...




A (so called white) child wonders how do you see dirt easily on black skin
this is normal
but the child has no hatred
it is simply curious

One might wonder if east Asians have different knee joints so they can sit full lotus, or Eskimos different digestion to survive without green vegitables. Black skin is advantageous for the tropics, and white skin is advantageous for manufacturing vitamin D in the lower sunlit north.

It is simple, the whole racism business is about a nasty heart justifying, behaving meanly. Exploring differences is harmless if our hearts are open.




:thumbup:


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Offlinetump
ban the undead
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Registered: 03/17/16
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Re: categorizing racism [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23799719 - 11/04/16 04:06 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I just wasted 40 mins reading this post. Dam you op. Any how i dont care about race i care about what people idea's are. And the family inbreeding common up three post ago stupid as hell. In history's when two groups of people mix the clash causes hateful arguement. When the english settled American they pissed off the dutch and Spanish people that had colonies here. they over food and land mass killed each other not because they needed to but because they hated each other races. Its goes back as far ad they remember. America is a melting pot each new race of white people that came across sided together and want to murder the other races for there jobs and food sources. After 3 gens of that rsce lived here they had enough to not be divide between english, germans, frence, spanish, Irish. So they started dividing by other traits like black and white. Human mind is always full of hate we have to divide us form others because its engrained animal instinct. I hate thise purple hair hippies over there so i guess its ok to not feed them.

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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: categorizing racism [Re: tump]
    #23803963 - 11/05/16 05:01 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

... Human mind is always full of hate we have to divide us form others because its engrained animal instinct. ...




1) you seem to over generalize

2) you insult animals other than homo sapiens

3) there is great variety among life forms, both animal and plant, and other kingdoms.

4)Viruses are fascinating and probably not hateful, although, more harmful to homo sapiens, than many hate crimes by homo sapiens.

5) the world is not as simple as we would like

6) That we want it to be simple, is evidenced by the current political nonsense in the USA

7) in particular "always full of hate" is another unnecessary generalization

8) BUT, I do agree that xenophobia is frequently an achillies's heel for humans

I'm grateful my parents were decent folk, inspite of their many problems...
we all do our best...

unfortunately, I agree that, from an idealistic view point, our best, is pathetic

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Offlinebenniesmitters
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Registered: 11/08/16
Posts: 10
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
Re: categorizing racism [Re: laughingdog] * 1
    #23812718 - 11/08/16 12:57 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Racism is evolution. It is because we tend to divide eachother and ourselves. Blacks tend to have mostly black friends, whites have mostly white friends, latinos mostly latinos. That makes us have intergroup relations. Research shows that those groups dont go along well in general, unless they have the same goal. Plus we want our genes to pass on, thats how we are programmed people who are so different, are a danger to our genetics (not what i really think, this is just how i think our brain works). So we are cautious to other people/xenofobic. Thats completely normal. But the way we act upon it, that's our own choice. Thats the beauty about being human, we have a (semi)free will. But in first reaction we can be a bit racist, but hey, we cant be totally perfect can we?

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