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OfflineFerather
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Lets reverse engineer actives
    #23787651 - 10/31/16 06:49 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

So without growing a single active, I would like to research and reverse an active fungus.

First step, the compounds in question, Psilocybin and Psilocin.
Lets reverse them and see what they are made from.

Psilocybin: C12-H17-N2-O4-P
Psilocin: C12-H16-N2-O

So what do we need to produce active compounds:

Carbon, Hydrogen, Nitrogen, Oxygen, Phosphorus.


   

100% clean, 100% tested. Who wants to try it?


--------------------
                   

Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

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Invisibleamidogen
see you on the other side

Registered: 05/07/16
Posts: 1,782
Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Ferather]
    #23787672 - 10/31/16 07:11 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

.


--------------------
The biggest trip of my life was realizing all of the events and actions described in posts made by this account were never real and had never actually happened, but were instead the delusional ramblings of a severely mentally ill human being. I just had to move on for my own good. I love you all.


Edited by amidogen (04/19/18 12:39 PM)


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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Ferather] * 2
    #23787673 - 10/31/16 07:11 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

lets wait till we are in space and have no biological material to easily grow them on, eh?

when I first got into mushrooms, this would have been interesting.  but after a few years, I'm more addicted to the cultivation aspect more than the psychedelic aspect, so even if I could just whip up a batch of psilocybin, i have a feeling it wouldn't be as fun, interesting, or rewarding as growing them, but to each their own.


--------------------
A few thoughts on cultivation
MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: amidogen]
    #23787715 - 10/31/16 07:49 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

amidogen said:
I'm really not sure what you're asking here...



To try the fertilizer in a grow and see if any changes occur, such as more potency or more fruits.

Quote:

amidogen said:
You want to synthesize the actives from your plant food?



I want the active species-strain to digest and convert it.

Quote:

amidogen said:
You want to encourage a non-active fungus to produce actives by feeding it plant food?



No idea where you got that from, and no don't we weird.

Quote:

amidogen said:
Are you trolling at this point?



What do you think?


--------------------
                   

Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

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OfflineFerather
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: blindingleaf]
    #23787716 - 10/31/16 07:49 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

blindingleaf said:
lets wait till we are in space and have no biological material to easily grow them on, eh?

when I first got into mushrooms, this would have been interesting.  but after a few years, I'm more addicted to the cultivation aspect more than the psychedelic aspect, so even if I could just whip up a batch of psilocybin, i have a feeling it wouldn't be as fun, interesting, or rewarding as growing them, but to each their own.



Really?


--------------------
                   

Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

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Offlineenlightenment
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: blindingleaf]
    #23787721 - 10/31/16 07:54 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

blindingleaf said:
when I first got into mushrooms, this would have been interesting.  but after a few years, I'm more addicted to the cultivation aspect more than the psychedelic aspect, so even if I could just whip up a batch of psilocybin, i have a feeling it wouldn't be as fun, interesting, or rewarding as growing them, but to each their own.




100% :whathesaid:


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Invisibleazur
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: blindingleaf] * 1
    #23787731 - 10/31/16 08:02 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Let's do it op!  I'm down.


--------------------


A cube is NOT a cube.

FALL IN LOVE WITH LC
FOTTSE!!!
ALL NOOBS READ THIS!!!



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OfflineFerather
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: azur]
    #23787745 - 10/31/16 08:11 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks azur, and anyone else. I'm still researching cubes, and how they dwell waiting for fertilizer.
Such as bovine animal poop, dead leaves, dead straw etc. Used for fruiting materials.

It can obviously colonize the soil just fine, even from spores.
Anyhow, fertilizer is fertilizer, organic or otherwise.

Fully soluble means we can use it easily.


--------------------
                   

Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Ferather]
    #23787747 - 10/31/16 08:13 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ferather said:
Quote:

amidogen said:
I'm really not sure what you're asking here...



To try the fertilizer in a grow and see if any changes occur, such as more potency or more fruits.


-been tried. Potency is genetics, you can feed them whatever you like but you don't fix weak genetics

Quote:

amidogen said:
You want to synthesize the actives from your plant food?



I want the active species-strain to digest and convert it.

Quote:

amidogen said:
You want to encourage a non-active fungus to produce actives by feeding it plant food?



No idea where you got that from, and no don't we weird.

Quote:

amidogen said:
Are you trolling at this point?



What do you think?




Maybe, or at least you didn't try looking it up


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Offlinetukkis
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23787753 - 10/31/16 08:16 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

maybe this is finally the person who'll get that free microscope from RR. hydroponic growing and all...


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23787756 - 10/31/16 08:19 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks bodhisatta.

So if I added the fertilizer to a substrate that would be considered weak, would it improve fruiting potential?
Lets say I gave it a substrate it can grow but not fruit from, if I add the fertilizer, will it fruit?


--------------------
                   

Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

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Invisibleamidogen
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Ferather]
    #23787773 - 10/31/16 08:27 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

.


--------------------
The biggest trip of my life was realizing all of the events and actions described in posts made by this account were never real and had never actually happened, but were instead the delusional ramblings of a severely mentally ill human being. I just had to move on for my own good. I love you all.


Edited by amidogen (04/19/18 12:40 PM)


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Ferather]
    #23787794 - 10/31/16 08:37 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ferather said:
Thanks bodhisatta.

So if I added the fertilizer to a substrate that would be considered weak, would it improve fruiting potential?
Lets say I gave it a substrate it can grow but not fruit from, if I add the fertilizer, will it fruit?



The only thing that's increased fruiting potential in the last 50 years(fertilizer has been tried) is using more spawn or supplement in substrate(requires sterilization) those substrate supplements are bran, rice flour, etc... More grain material.

That may increase your yield but not quality or size or potency.


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InvisibleLocN9ne
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: blindingleaf]
    #23787803 - 10/31/16 08:41 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

blindingleaf said:


when I first got into mushrooms, this would have been interesting.  but after a few years, I'm more addicted to the cultivation aspect more than the psychedelic aspect, so even if I could just whip up a batch of psilocybin, i have a feeling it wouldn't be as fun, interesting, or rewarding as growing them, but to each their own.



:highfive:


--------------------


Q&A
US vs. THEM

The more I learn, the less I know.


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: amidogen]
    #23787805 - 10/31/16 08:41 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Ok, thanks bodhisatta, so yield only, interesting.

Thanks for all the information.


--------------------
                   

Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Ferather]
    #23787814 - 10/31/16 08:42 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I can assure you fertilizer costs way more than say using an extra jar of spawn. And an extra jar of spawn will do way more for you than ferts could possibly


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23787857 - 10/31/16 08:58 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

1kg is £3.99 ($4.85) and I use 2.5g per 100g. Not too expensive for 100% factory clean.
But yeah 0% energy, just nutrients. Can only improve energy consumption.

As you said total yield, if theres plenty of remaining energy.


--------------------
                   

Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23787863 - 10/31/16 09:00 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

i thought miracle grow had anti-fungal shit in it:rolleyes:

not to sound all folksy either but ...when you make your own
ayahuasca the materials and energy/method you put in effects the way
the spirit handles the medicine.

using something like miracle grow seems like its taking the nature out of the mushrooms.
but if you use it and grow a 3foot active cube that you get 12 heroic trips off of then
more power to you. but that isnt WHY i grow my own actives. its
much deeper then bigger stronger faster.. kno what i mean? :twocents:

i like my proven, natural fertilizer.



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OfflineFerather
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: mushboy]
    #23787890 - 10/31/16 09:07 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I'm fine with any reason people are growing actives.
Not asking you to change a single thing.

Just looking for data  :smile:


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Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

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Invisiblefreespeech
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Ferather] * 1
    #23787895 - 10/31/16 09:09 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

OP: "I have ridiculous ideas that I want to research but I don't want to put in any of the work to do so. Who's with me?"

:rolleyes: :facepalm:

Get real. Ideas are cheap. Doing stuff is hard.


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: freespeech]
    #23787907 - 10/31/16 09:14 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

freespeech said:
OP: "I have ridiculous ideas that I want to research but I don't want to put in any of the work to do so. Who's with me?"

:rolleyes: :facepalm:

Get real. Ideas are cheap. Doing stuff is hard.



Then don't do it? Sorry but I don't get what the problem is there.
Uhm, not seeing the bit where I made you do it...

This forum section is really odd.


--------------------
                   

Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Ferather]
    #23787926 - 10/31/16 09:19 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ferather said:
This forum section is really odd.




its full of people crazy enough to grow things that make you go crazy:eek:

also in the cultivation forums we see lots of wacky shit.

growing with candles.
being immune to law for religious reasons.
using choke bags.
human shit as substrate.
hiding grows from family members/children while on probation.
circle jerks about potency and bruising nonsense.
'alt' methods that are wacky.
just plain old bullshitting loser boasting about imaginary grows.
ect ect.


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: mushboy]
    #23787936 - 10/31/16 09:23 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Haha yea should have thought of that, drug section > asking questions.
Its fine, shroomery has a hide post function  :cool:


--------------------
                   

Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

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Invisiblefreespeech
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Ferather]
    #23787941 - 10/31/16 09:25 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ferather said:
Quote:

freespeech said:
OP: "I have ridiculous ideas that I want to research but I don't want to put in any of the work to do so. Who's with me?"

:rolleyes: :facepalm:

Get real. Ideas are cheap. Doing stuff is hard.



Then don't do it? Sorry but I don't get what the problem is there.
Uhm, not seeing the bit where I made you do it...

This forum section is really odd.




Signal/noise ratio. So far, this thread is all noise.


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Invisibleamidogen
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Ferather]
    #23788073 - 10/31/16 10:15 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

.


--------------------
The biggest trip of my life was realizing all of the events and actions described in posts made by this account were never real and had never actually happened, but were instead the delusional ramblings of a severely mentally ill human being. I just had to move on for my own good. I love you all.


Edited by amidogen (04/19/18 12:40 PM)


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InvisibleMycolorado
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: amidogen]
    #23788098 - 10/31/16 10:25 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

amidogen said:
What you've got to understand is growing actives involves a good bit of work and, for many of us, a fair amount of risk, to the tune of I lose everything I love and care about if the wrong person finds out. If I'm going to put in the risk, I'd like to know that what I'm doing has been tried and is worth taking the risk.

The whole "I don't want to grow actives, but I had this idea about how you could. Since I don't want to grow, how about you all take on all the cost and risk of trying out my idea for me and then tell me what happens" is what sounds so fucked up to us. Is this starting to sink in on why this post is odd and getting the reception it has?

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think you can count on next to nobody saying "Hey this dude has an idea and is curious what will happen if you try it with actives. I've got time to spare committing a felony, so hell, I'll indulge him and do all the work for him of figuring out whether it's good, bad, or indifferent in affecting my grow."

Maybe indulging the curiosity of someone who doesn't even grow the species in question is something you all do in the gourmet forums, but I can't say I see that happen here, nor that I want to indulge your curiosity, nor that I see what throwing out a request for someone to take on the risk of indulging your curiosity contributes to this forum or hobby.

If you had started this post with "Here's the results of my cube grow where I used fertilizer vs a grow where I didn't..." then this would have gone differently. That's normally how "new" techniques posts start...



Lighten the fuck up, Amidogen!  And who made you the fucking mush cult police....every time I see you post, you're pointing out the rules or some shit.  Here's a thought, try contributing instead of playing forum rule nazi.  I'm interested in running the experiment.  Azure is as well as he chimed in above.  All Ferather is asking is that if you grow actives, maybe you'd be down to do a little experimenting since you're growing them already and provide the results.  Also, cubes are not difficult to grow and are actually less labor and time consuming than most species.


--------------------
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Invisibleazur
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Mycolorado] * 1
    #23788110 - 10/31/16 10:28 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

There's a lot of noobs in here these days always pointing out rules and shit. And it's fucking annoying. We're all breaking society's rules. If someone wants to break a rule, let the powers at be handle it. One of the many reasons I don't chill here much


--------------------


A cube is NOT a cube.

FALL IN LOVE WITH LC
FOTTSE!!!
ALL NOOBS READ THIS!!!



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Invisibleazur
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Ferather]
    #23788124 - 10/31/16 10:33 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Give me the recipe to follow and I'll get on it this week.


--------------------


A cube is NOT a cube.

FALL IN LOVE WITH LC
FOTTSE!!!
ALL NOOBS READ THIS!!!



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OfflineFerather
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: azur]
    #23788135 - 10/31/16 10:37 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Its ok azur, don't worry about it. I'm trying to sort out a user made forum section.
I was wrong to ask here, I obviously plucked some strings in people.

I will PM you if-when something is sorted.


--------------------
                   

Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

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Invisibleamidogen
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: azur] * 1
    #23788163 - 10/31/16 10:45 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

.


--------------------
The biggest trip of my life was realizing all of the events and actions described in posts made by this account were never real and had never actually happened, but were instead the delusional ramblings of a severely mentally ill human being. I just had to move on for my own good. I love you all.


Edited by amidogen (04/19/18 12:41 PM)


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Invisibleazur
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Ferather]
    #23788166 - 10/31/16 10:47 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Don't worry about these clowns. This forum is filled with contradictions by the same users, daily.
To say this or that, without real data or actually trying it for yourself, is just stupid.
As a whole, mush cult is far better at arguing than it is at growing.
I've dreamt of the same idea and I'm definitely willing to give it a shot and document it. So tell me if you want the fertilizer in the substrate, all of the substrate, or in the casing, and I'll do it tomorrow morning. Done. That easy.


--------------------


A cube is NOT a cube.

FALL IN LOVE WITH LC
FOTTSE!!!
ALL NOOBS READ THIS!!!



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Invisiblemorty422
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: amidogen]
    #23788170 - 10/31/16 10:49 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

:popcorn:

Can't we all just.......get along?

:rofl:


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: morty422]
    #23788179 - 10/31/16 10:53 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

:no:


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: morty422]
    #23788182 - 10/31/16 10:54 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

morty422 said:
:popcorn:

Can't we all just.......get along?

:rofl:



I was hoping to, thankfully bodhisatta was very helpful and gave me the info I was looking for.
It makes further experiments much more strait forward, and much easier.

I can simply focus on BE and yield thanks to bodhisatta.

Tiny bit of data goes a long way  :thumbup:


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23788193 - 10/31/16 10:57 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Quote:

Ferather said:
Thanks bodhisatta.

So if I added the fertilizer to a substrate that would be considered weak, would it improve fruiting potential?
Lets say I gave it a substrate it can grow but not fruit from, if I add the fertilizer, will it fruit?



The only thing that's increased fruiting potential in the last 50 years(fertilizer has been tried) is using more spawn or supplement in substrate(requires sterilization) those substrate supplements are bran, rice flour, etc... More grain material.

That may increase your yield but not quality or size or potency.



How do you absolutely know about potency?
And what about spawnmate?


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: azur]
    #23788220 - 10/31/16 11:06 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Probably the same way genetics handle maximum water capacity in a fruit body.

He is saying, at max a new fruit body is produced, I think.


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Ferather]
    #23788248 - 10/31/16 11:14 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

It also would store glycogen (CHO). Then use N-P later for compound production and fruit body development.
At a guess, but I suppost it could store N-P too, I don't know. Soil dormancy doesn't say much.


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Ferather]
    #23788260 - 10/31/16 11:22 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

To me it looks like the active strain is making the active compounds as a storage method.
We know the compounds are made from C-H-O-N-(P), and glycogen is C-H-O.

Further guess, N-P are used to fruit.


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Ferather]
    #23788283 - 10/31/16 11:33 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Reasons could be:

> Bacterial attraction, bacteria may not like the compounds?
> Ability to store fruiting potential, and energy.


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Ferather]
    #23788336 - 10/31/16 11:49 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ferather said:
Probably the same way genetics handle maximum water capacity in a fruit body.

He is saying, at max a new fruit body is produced, I think.



If a new fruit body is produced, then as a whole, potency would be increased. :wink:  see what I did there.

I see what you are saying though. But you didn't answer my question. How do we know potency is controlled only by genetics?


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: azur]
    #23788343 - 10/31/16 11:51 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Yea sorry, going by given data, cant comment. Valid point for me too.


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Ferather]
    #23788347 - 10/31/16 11:52 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I'm curious. I mean, some of the old hands had special amendments they'd add to their substrates. People that many of us consider the old kings of cult.

I don't think it's impossible at all. I was considering trying an amendment myself in very low amounts. Like a compost tea. I don't see it as much different than adding the coffee to a grain soak, myself. That's been proven beneficial for stone producers time and again.

I realize these aren't plants, but they're still decomposers. So I think some tea from perhaps a phase II compost could be beneficial, no? I'm not sure about fertilizers specifically though.

tl;dr: I mostly want this in my threads :smile:


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: dankington]
    #23788376 - 10/31/16 12:01 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

The way I see it, if actives are composed of xyz, and those components aren't available, potency is going to suffer.  If there is an abundance of xyz, then genetics will determine how many actives it's able to create from said abundance.  Some may be better at converting those components to actives than others.  That said, I've had batches of the same culture grown on straw vs. strw + poo and I thought the latter were better. Could be "bullshit" though and all in the mind.  Still interested in testing it.


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: dankington]
    #23788383 - 10/31/16 12:03 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I agree dankington. But some ferlizers have bacteria added or some kind of pesticide or fungicide.
Check the labels, test small samples, then pass the brand, and take images for reference.

Then you can experiment with nutritional additives, cleanly, no added starch.
Which means you can also control the energy sources and amounts.

Also usable with agar for nutrient or energy testing.


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Ferather]
    #23788417 - 10/31/16 12:16 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

There was a post a couple years ago of where a dude put plant food in his
lc and his recover time was friggin ridiculous. I'll try to find it

No luck but i definitely remember reading it.

Also, this thread and some peoples responses are evidence of that chip
developing on mush cults shoulder.

Too many noobs trying to post like inocuole,
that's the issue  :hehehe:


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: natedawgnow]
    #23788570 - 10/31/16 01:15 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

natedawgnow said:
Too many noobs trying to post like inocuole,
that's the issue  :hehehe:




Quote:

inocuole said:
:uhno:




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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: natedawgnow]
    #23788577 - 10/31/16 01:17 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Just gonna stick my two cents in here. I have grown with brf, straight grain, coir, verm, worm castings, hpoo, cpoo, sheep poo, straw, and many combos of the above. IME none of them effected potency much if at all. My best APE clone still punches your face out your asshole regardless of if you did it on rye spawned to coir or wheat spawned to manure or brf suspended in straw. Same goes for a weaker culture, it was as strong on cased grain as it was on brf cakes as it was on rye to hpoo.

Of course that's just anecdotal. Until someone gets ahold of a GS we can just go by anecdotes. But if coir verm was noticeably weaker or brf was much stronger you would think it would have been noticed by a greater cross section of people.

I do notice that a lot of people talk about their preferred method/substrate/etc as being the best. But few seem to really grow in a well rounded manner anyways so such biases are limited in scope for the most part.


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23788604 - 10/31/16 01:26 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I understand potency has a limit per gram of mycelium, or at least thats whats commonly known for x reason(s).
But I also understand that total yield can be increased via additives, fertilizer, straw, grain flour etc.

So the argument is that total amount produced has gone up, to a max per current gram.
And then more physical body produced, then more compound, repeating.


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Ferather]
    #23788640 - 10/31/16 01:40 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

A higher yield will always mean more active production within the cultures ability to produce.


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23788662 - 10/31/16 01:49 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I think that was the answer azur was after. Thanks again Pasty, nice to have you around.
Personally I am happy with the "increase yield" result bodhisatta gave me.


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23788717 - 10/31/16 02:11 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

So answer me this
Many of you, including you, have grown bunk tubs.
I have never (please don't let this jinx me) had bunk crops out of thousands of pounds. And I use hpoo exclusively (except for the amount of times I was out and used coir which I can count on my hands).


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23788741 - 10/31/16 02:17 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Bunk cubes will end up bunk on poo too.


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23788767 - 10/31/16 02:26 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Can anyone here verify that?


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: azur]
    #23788776 - 10/31/16 02:27 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

jesus fuck azur even if someone did you would just say they're BS-ing.

shitty ones are not saved by a magic substrate. the cubes are eating the grass in poo anyway. with your logic straw grows would be more potent. or the potency would come from grain spawn choice.

there may be substrate choices so shitty that the culture cannot get potency up to it's genetic potential sure but even cubes grown on wood seem to be fine just shitty yield

or by similar logic cased grain fruits would be more bunk on average... that's dumb


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: azur]
    #23788781 - 10/31/16 02:28 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Hmm, thats interesting azur, because I've read similar issues with spread nutrients over bulk.
So body before compound production, is there an average bunk amount per kg?

Thing with adding plant to plants, or bland body (vermiculite).
Your not really increasing the nutrient ratio fully.

I mean adding grain to verm, I don't get it, grain is what 60-70% starch.
You could just fruit from 100% grain at its set nutrient ratio.

Or like 99% grain 1% verm, which would be silly.

If I use a fertilizer, the more I use the more the ratio goes up.
Up to 99% fertilizer, which would be far too strong.

Money says you get more if you fertilized grains.

Great test btw, Anyone?


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23788797 - 10/31/16 02:34 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
jesus fuck azur even if someone did you would just say they're BS-ing.

shitty ones are not saved by a magic substrate. the cubes are eating the grass in poo anyway. with your logic straw grows would be more potent. or the potency would come from grain spawn choice.

there may be substrate choices so shitty that the culture cannot get potency up to it's genetic potential sure but even cubes grown on wood seem to be fine just shitty yield

or by similar logic cased grain fruits would be more bunk on average... that's dumb



Not sir. I'm not the one that has ever said post pics or it didn't happen. Wrong guy. Not my style.
And I'm not trying to argue. I'm asking a very simple question: Has anyone on here ever grown bunk cubes on hpoo?  It's valid with the topic.


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: azur]
    #23788841 - 10/31/16 02:46 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

ive never grown bunk cubes on anything. ive done coco, hpoo, cpoo+straw, straw, compost.

honestly didnt know there was such a thing. now im paranoid.
guess ill have to eat a bunch and double check


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: mushboy]
    #23788846 - 10/31/16 02:48 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
ive never grown bunk cubes on anything.

honestly didnt know there was such a thing. now im paranoid.
guess ill have to eat a bunch and double check




Hahaha, sorry not being rude.  :laugh2:


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: azur]
    #23788895 - 10/31/16 03:05 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

azur said:
Can anyone here verify that?




Yes. I have only had bunk cultures twice, both were clones. The second time it was a PE clone and I grew it on a coir mono, a hpoo/straw mono, cased grain and in a bulk bottle with a coir/verm/hpoo/cpoo/worm castings sub. I was convinced of the infallible nature of PE and ran it on everything.

All were bunk. Azur I have long suspected that one of the few advantages to ms is that a completely bunk grow is rare given the averages and anastomosis occurring would prevent many instances of all fruits in a diverse ms grow being totally bunk. Of course with a proven potent clone this is avoided. Hence why it's recommended to test cultures before committing a larger grow to them.


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23788906 - 10/31/16 03:08 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

It's worth noting that my first bunk grow was done on brf which is touted by many as being the most nutritious substrate available. Violet has long claimed potency advantages to cased grains because of that.


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23788910 - 10/31/16 03:09 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Hmm, I have some experience with genetic loss. I refrain from further comment at this time.
All my data is based on Golden oyster, which is not an active.


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Ferather]
    #23788918 - 10/31/16 03:12 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

That's so crazy! My bunk grows weren't completely bunk, but just extremely weak.
Once it was with menace, grown spore syringe to WBS to CVG. The other time was with B+ to hpoo straw. The menace seemed to level off around level 1. The B+ was also MS; spore syringe to WBS. pretty much completely worthless.

Anecdotal evidence ftw. lol. Kinda wish I had all the space and resources to really test these things out properly.


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: dankington]
    #23788944 - 10/31/16 03:22 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

i gotta research this one. not sure how i dont know about bunk grows:rolleyes:
ive had shit flushes just lame ass mushrooms but never potency issues.


although the first time i shroomed was with  :dealershrooms:
and they were garbage compared to my first home grown.


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: dankington]
    #23788958 - 10/31/16 03:25 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Let me share this, which I know its Golden oyster, but lets apply the info and see.

Here is Golden oyster, from spawn, on paper and fertilizer:



Now the same block using the natural fruiting tek:



Notice the difference, and strength?


What changed? I tried to cultivate them outside natural conditions.
Possibility of varied temperatures for nutrient breakdown?

In this case, seasons and natural rain, etc.


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: mushboy]
    #23788960 - 10/31/16 03:27 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

True bunk genetics are pretty rare. I have probably grown out 200 clones and out of those only 2 were no good at all. The vast majority 80% were all pretty average. The most potent were my APE clones and they were insane, about the same as pans. Most of my PE clones were also quite exceptional except for the one dud.


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23788974 - 10/31/16 03:29 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Quote:

azur said:
Can anyone here verify that?




Yes. I have only had bunk cultures twice, both were clones. The second time it was a PE clone and I grew it on a coir mono, a hpoo/straw mono, cased grain and in a bulk bottle with a coir/verm/hpoo/cpoo/worm castings sub. I was convinced of the infallible nature of PE and ran it on everything.

All were bunk. Azur I have long suspected that one of the few advantages to ms is that a completely bunk grow is rare given the averages and anastomosis occurring would prevent many instances of all fruits in a diverse ms grow being totally bunk. Of course with a proven potent clone this is avoided. Hence why it's recommended to test cultures before committing a larger grow to them.



:whathesaid: I've grown so many MS grows, all of them on hpoo (literally never used coir yet), and I'd say 5ish times I've had bunk shrooms out of the large amount of times I've grown awesome cubes. I too have thought about the anatastomosis thing making bunk fruits chances much lower


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Ferather]
    #23788988 - 10/31/16 03:31 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ferather said:
Let me share this, which I know its Golden oyster, but lets apply the info and see.

Here is Golden oyster, from spawn, on paper and fertilizer:



Now the same block using the natural fruiting tek:



Notice the difference, and strength?


What changed? I tried to cultivate them outside natural conditions.
Possibility of varied temperatures for nutrient breakdown?

In this case, seasons and natural rain, etc.




Hard to say but I can say that the bunk PE genetics produced beautiful robust fruits, not a blob at all. I don't think that fruiting potential is directly corelated to active production. In fact my most potent fruits look wack by normal standards. Some of my more average potency fruits are robust by comparison.


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23789000 - 10/31/16 03:35 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Just wondering if putting it into its natural environment would improve the situation.
Yea as I said, doesn't necessarily apply. I got a good clone for Goldies.


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Ferather]
    #23789018 - 10/31/16 03:41 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

most outdoor cubes are reportedly less potent.

if we could figure out how to grow azures indoors perhaps we could get strains that were just outrageously potent


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23789033 - 10/31/16 03:43 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I do think that the reason why many hunted cubes are weak is due to a lack of domestication. I'm sure a potent culture grown outside would retain its potency.


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23789043 - 10/31/16 03:48 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
most outdoor cubes are reportedly less potent.

if we could figure out how to grow azures indoors perhaps we could get strains that were just outrageously potent




Interesting. I never heard about it. Do you mean the naturally grown cubes or outdoor beds that have been placed by cultivators? Cubensis do not grow outside where I live.

I read a successful psi. cyanescens indoor grow a long time ago. Maybe I can find the link. The guy who grew them made some effort to mimic the nature.

//edit

I did not see your post pasty. It answers my question.


Edited by enlightenment (10/31/16 03:49 PM)


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: enlightenment]
    #23789045 - 10/31/16 03:49 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

supposedly beds too. but I've not done the comparison myself


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23789048 - 10/31/16 03:50 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Hmm ok, all interesting comments there, thanks for the input.

@bodhisatta:

Cold water aquarium pump, and the following setup, roughly:



Was an idea for cold gourmet strains.

Use metal clamps, or seats.


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23789354 - 10/31/16 05:40 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
most outdoor cubes are reportedly less potent.

if we could figure out how to grow azures indoors perhaps we could get strains that were just outrageously potent



I've never experienced this either.

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
I do think that the reason why many hunted cubes are weak is due to a lack of domestication. I'm sure a potent culture grown outside would retain its potency.



OR is it maybe because they get picked sloppily, throw into whatever container, sit in the car, and get dried half assedly?


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: morty422]
    #23789394 - 10/31/16 05:56 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

morty422 said:
:popcorn:

Can't we all just.......get along?

:rofl:




Where's the fun in that?


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Mycolorado]
    #23789454 - 10/31/16 06:18 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mycolorado said:
Lighten the fuck up, Amidogen!  And who made you the fucking mush cult police....every time I see you post, you're pointing out the rules or some shit.  Here's a thought, try contributing instead of playing forum rule nazi. 




QFT


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: azur]
    #23789455 - 10/31/16 06:18 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Sure half ass harvesting is not going to do them any good either.


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: bacbnr]
    #23789503 - 10/31/16 06:38 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

.


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Edited by amidogen (04/19/18 12:42 PM)


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: bacbnr]
    #23789577 - 10/31/16 07:04 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bacbnr said:
Quote:

Mycolorado said:
Lighten the fuck up, Amidogen!  And who made you the fucking mush cult police....every time I see you post, you're pointing out the rules or some shit.  Here's a thought, try contributing instead of playing forum rule nazi. 




QFT




I bet if Pasty runs puppet checker on this, it'll turn up a result. 


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Inocuole]
    #23789592 - 10/31/16 07:06 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Blackdust


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23790491 - 11/01/16 06:03 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Hard to say but I can say that the bunk PE genetics produced beautiful robust fruits, not a blob at all. I don't think that fruiting potential is directly corelated to active production. In fact my most potent fruits look wack by normal standards. Some of my more average potency fruits are robust by comparison.



Hmmm, I'd say it runs out of N-P then, if it has enough C-H-O and nutrients to produce a fruit body, it must be low on N-P.

Same effect, as such, if I add nutrients (soluble fertilizer), to 99% cellulose, I get more yield.
And normal colonization time, whereas 99% cellulose takes 8 months and yields little.

No changes to energy (food) source, but an increase to nutrient ratio.

Golden oyster btw, not cubensis.


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Ferather]
    #23790521 - 11/01/16 06:58 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Yes but the amounts of nitrogen needed are small. I always add some to the spawn anyways via coffee, provides plenty. Do 100 grows with 5 clones. When 1 is not potent regardless of substrate composition you learn that the issue is genetic. Remember I ran that culture on a range of substrates. Some were heavily supplimented.

Potency with cubensis has a massive range anyways, more than most species. It can go from dead bunk to copelandia potency with the average settling in the middle. I'm not going to suggest that substrate composition plays zero role, but I am convinced the ability to convert is genetic. So if a substrate is truely deficient that will cause a negative outcome, but that would be a very low nutrient value sub. Really cubes in nature occupy a secondary niche and manure growers are keeping them there.

Many studies with other species of fungi have shown that alkaloid production is dependent on nitrogen but that there are limiting factors. Adding more does not equal more alkaloids once the threshold is reached. In aspergillus the ability for a culture to convert nitrogen was also somewhat dependent on availability of zinc ions in the substrate. Which means that even if additional nitrogen could be used, there might be other limiting factors which are deficient.


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23790529 - 11/01/16 07:01 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Right, so its a lot like expanding Golden oyster too many times, which causes genetic dormancy.
So if you take spores from a bunk, do they grow out as bunks too or as normal?


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Ferather]
    #23790532 - 11/01/16 07:03 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

It's not senscence. That is a separate issue. Spores is a reset for the most part especially when dealing with domesticated and stable lines.


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23790542 - 11/01/16 07:09 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks Pasty.


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Ferather] * 2
    #23792319 - 11/01/16 06:03 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ferather said:
So without growing a single active, I would like to research and reverse an active fungus.




Oh okay, well let's not jump the gun and assume this means there'll be statements like-

Quote:

Ferather said:
Hmmm, I'd say it runs out of N-P then, if it has enough C-H-O and nutrients to produce a fruit body, it must be low on N-P.




Quote:

Ferather said:
Right, so its a lot like expanding Golden oyster too many times, which causes genetic dormancy.





Oh darn, what a surprise..


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Inocuole]
    #23793285 - 11/01/16 10:27 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Lol! So am I understanding this right? This guy wants to try to use soil to make the actives without growing any shrooms?? Or am I just straight up fucked?

If you want to synthesize it, you better be damn good at chemistry. I'm just researching some on it right now, and psilocin looks MUCH easier to synthesize. Fuck the phosphorus holding psilocybin.

The most easily obtainable precursor would probably be L-tryptophan, since I'm pretty sure 4-aco-DMT, 1 of the easiest, and most stable precursors of psilocin, is now illegal.


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Mad Season] * 1
    #23793353 - 11/01/16 10:56 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

.


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Edited by amidogen (04/19/18 12:42 PM)


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: amidogen]
    #23793365 - 11/01/16 11:03 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

amidogen said:
Quote:

Mad Season said:
Lol! So am I understanding this right? This guy wants to try to use soil to make the actives without growing any shrooms?? Or am I just straight up fucked?



No...he wants to throw plant food in the sub and/or casing to make the active shrooms more potent.

Be careful Mad. I'm an asshole for not jumping on board with this immediately.




no walter, you're not wrong you're just an asshole.:thedude: :wink:

I honestly don't think any conclusive tests have been done, but I bet proper treatment of the grain spawn could yield results. I know genetics play an even bigger role, but I think training the myc to create alkaloids early on could help--if we could properly determine what would usher the results we were looking for. Which means, ultimately legal ability to properly examine these species.


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: dankington]
    #23793377 - 11/01/16 11:06 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

.


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Edited by amidogen (06/21/18 11:28 AM)


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: amidogen]
    #23793468 - 11/01/16 11:55 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Lol oh ok. I heard playing your shrooms music every day makes your trip much more funky :wink:


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Mad Season]
    #23793866 - 11/02/16 07:44 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Hmm, I guess only testing will give us the result's right? And I know there are millions of fertilizers.
I focus on optimizing nutrient to energy ratios, most of the products we use are energy rich.

Lets take rye as an example, 11% water, 70% carbohydrates, 18% fat + protein.
Thats 1% nutrients, so we need to add more nutrients, and quite a bit.

Adding 100g rye flour to rye grain gives me 200g rye in total.

You can get fat on rye, but still need nutrients.


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Ferather]
    #23793872 - 11/02/16 07:50 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

It is also possible that too much or too little of something causes genetic shutdown.
Similar to, too much sugar causing genetic shutdown of insulin production.


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Ferather]
    #23793883 - 11/02/16 07:56 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Why are you so convinced that it's an abundance of nutrients that are required for active formation? The most powerful species in the world grow on wood. Compare that to the high nute grain based substrates that dung lovers are grown on and the logic doesn't follow.


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23793896 - 11/02/16 08:07 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Isn't that comparing genetics? I'm sure azurescens will carry a larger array of digestive enzymes.


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Ferather]
    #23793902 - 11/02/16 08:10 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

There is a big difference between comparing genetics within a species and comparing different species. But my point was to show that super potent species do not require an abundance of nutes to produce the actives. Assuming psilocybin is produced via a similar mechanism across species, then it does not stand to reason that a surge of nutes will necessarily result in higher active content.


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Pastywhyte] * 2
    #23794192 - 11/02/16 10:37 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

That's a solid point pasty. I am sure the mechanisms of alkaloid production
are near identical across all species of the same genus, so it doesn't
stand to reason that nutrients play that big of an issue when it comes
to their production.

Although, it is a known fact with plants, not necessarily fungus but who
knows, that they can biosynthesize a higher percentage of their alkaloids
when watered, sprayed, or even injected with precursors of said alkaloids.

The science behind biosynthesis via precursor administration is there,
whether or not it can be done with a fungus is yet to be determined but
it is not absolutely crazy to think that precursors, not basic nutrients,
could in fact raise alkaloid production.


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: natedawgnow]
    #23794840 - 11/02/16 03:07 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

.


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Edited by amidogen (04/19/18 12:43 PM)


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: amidogen]
    #23795053 - 11/02/16 04:13 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Everything is composed of basic elements, even actual precursors to psilocin/psilocybin.


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: natedawgnow]
    #23795072 - 11/02/16 04:18 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

.


--------------------
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Edited by amidogen (04/19/18 12:43 PM)


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: amidogen]
    #23795646 - 11/02/16 07:30 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I'm saying that if one is possible, maybe the other is too. If biosynthesis
of precursor to end alkaloid is possible, maybe biosynthesis of basic
elements that make up the end alkaloid is possible too.

I see where the confusion is, I said "not crazy to think that precursors,
NOT nutes, could raise concentration" when I meant to actually say AND nutes. I think that it is
possible but not yet probable. Will the probability change in the near
future as more research into the field is done? Maybe, but I won't make
definitive statements in either argument till we know for sure.

But pastys point about alkaloid production mechanisms still holds a lot
of water so I am not really sure what to believe.


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23798442 - 11/03/16 05:33 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
It's worth noting that my first bunk grow was done on brf which is touted by many as being the most nutritious substrate available. Violet has long claimed potency advantages to cased grains because of that.



Not without good culture, and plenty of consolidation! (except on grass seed)
Even with my cased grain methods, you know I'm checking all my test cultures for strength


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Violet] * 2
    #23798610 - 11/03/16 06:24 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

oh wow. Do you have notifications set-up to webcrawl for mentions of your name? That's amazing.


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: dankington]
    #23798683 - 11/03/16 06:45 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Violet don't ya have most of this convo in a journal entry? I swear I seen this whole thread argument 3 years ago:lolsy:


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: cronicr]
    #23805545 - 11/06/16 07:33 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Nah, sometimes I check in to see if I've missed anything of interest; I know how to UTFSE

Cron, not exactly. This topic doesn't appeal to me as much as it used to, since culture is of primary importance anyway. I've posted already what I do know about helping potential potency, and haven't seen any other good bets yet.


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Violet]
    #23805821 - 11/06/16 09:20 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Hey Violet :wave:

I don't want to suggest that substrate is of zero importance, there are some things that must be met. But I don't think the substrate is going to outweigh culture when it comes to what determines potency more. Not even close.


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InvisibleLocN9ne
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23805905 - 11/06/16 09:46 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Potency is ALL genetics, right? Like, I'm sure different subs provide nutritional supplements differently but all that just contributes to the overall health of the mushrooms... Like you can take a dipshit ass dude, feed him supplements and all that until he is the healthiest human on the planet... But he is still gonna be a dipshit, the only way to change that would be to educate him which is not a physical type of thing... So like, we need to figure out how to educate these motherfuckers... I'm high nvm


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: LocN9ne]
    #23805917 - 11/06/16 09:50 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I guess what I'm saying is that if the substrate was deficient that could negatively effect the potency. But the ability to convert and produce actives and the potential of that is genetic.


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23805998 - 11/06/16 10:21 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

So if you knew the exact composition of a substrate and determined the relevant deficiency(s).
And then added the required ingredients, that would improve potency and yield.

Which is a lot like my point with a soluble fertilizer.


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Invisibledankington
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23806006 - 11/06/16 10:23 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

That's what I've been meaning. Loc, you're right about the dipshit ass dude, but though genetic potential is key, training and nutrition can make a natural athlete better.
    I know that obviously genetics are the most important part of the equation, but what if you could train myc to create more alkaloids, like adding coffee to spawn to get a stone producer to make more stones. I know this has been a taboo topic on these boards forever. There have been tons of threads, and they're always dismissed with the argument "genetics".
    However, if genetics were all that mattered, athletes wouldn't train and take supplements like  they do.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Ferather]
    #23806010 - 11/06/16 10:24 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I think you would be hard pressed to find a deficient substrate tat cubes do well on anyway so it becomes a retarded argument IMO


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Ferather]
    #23806016 - 11/06/16 10:26 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ferather said:
So if you knew the exact composition of a substrate and determined the relevant deficiency(s).
And then added the required ingredients, that would improve potency and yield.

Which is a lot like my point with a soluble fertilizer.




Except if the substrate isn't deficient to begin with. Most people make their cubes substrate overly nutritious. You are more of an edible guy but most cube growers are pumping loads of spawn into their grows. The spawn is soaked with liquid coffee and gypsum. Before they spawn at what most gmm guys would consider and atrociously high spawn ratio, the grain is already packed full of nitrogen, calcium, and sulphur. It's far more nutritious than any cow turd could be.

When people suggest that standard cube methods are not nutritious enough I can't help but laugh.

:canthelpbutlaugh:


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23806024 - 11/06/16 10:30 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Haha, ok fair enough then.


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Violet]
    #23806316 - 11/06/16 11:56 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Violet said:
plenty of consolidation!



speaking of consolidation & potency...

people might have missed this recently bumped thread in advanced

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15181139


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: blackout]
    #23806485 - 11/06/16 12:48 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

The consolidation angle while for the most part being unproven, is still interesting. More interesting than substrates from a potency angle. Just as those uber potent woodloving species grow on very low nute substrates, they do tend to take their sweet ass time to put out fruits. Years sometimes.

Penis varieties are said by many to be very potent. They also are notorious for taking forever to pin. Might be some corrolation there worth looking at closer.


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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23806749 - 11/06/16 02:07 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Might be some corrolation there worth looking at closer.



In case people miss it, besides what might cause increases in potency, in the later posts in that thread I was suggesting that microdosing might be a very beneficial way of comparing potency. People can take doses very soon after each other, microdosing is said to have little tolerance build up, if tolerance does build up the does are in such close succession that it can be factored in. Since we are looking for "threshold" doses as being "too much" with microdosing I think it somewhat takes set & setting out of the mix, as it would be similar in most peoples day to day life. There is less gauging "was that level 4 or 5", its was that noticeable whatsoever, or not. Increase the dose until it becomes noticeable, then compare with the same isolate grown under different conditions, comparisons can be done on a day to day basis, not some random "6 months ago I was off my face at this beach party on 4g, had a load of beer & few joints too" -"I took 4g a year later and it had far less effect" -vs "I took 0.15g 29 days in a row and then 0.15g was far too much of the same isolate grown in a different way, and 0.1g still proved too much, and 0.05g seemed to give similar effects the next 20 days"

After reading about anomalies in measuring "potency" with "scientific" techniques, I would possibly trust my own bioassays with microdosing more -i.e. the "scientific method" might not be accounting for all the actives and symbiosis of the compounds we grow and how they interact.


Edited by blackout (11/06/16 02:46 PM)


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