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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: amidogen]
#23795646 - 11/02/16 07:30 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm saying that if one is possible, maybe the other is too. If biosynthesis of precursor to end alkaloid is possible, maybe biosynthesis of basic elements that make up the end alkaloid is possible too.
I see where the confusion is, I said "not crazy to think that precursors, NOT nutes, could raise concentration" when I meant to actually say AND nutes. I think that it is possible but not yet probable. Will the probability change in the near future as more research into the field is done? Maybe, but I won't make definitive statements in either argument till we know for sure.
But pastys point about alkaloid production mechanisms still holds a lot of water so I am not really sure what to believe.
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23798442 - 11/03/16 05:33 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: It's worth noting that my first bunk grow was done on brf which is touted by many as being the most nutritious substrate available. Violet has long claimed potency advantages to cased grains because of that.
Not without good culture, and plenty of consolidation! (except on grass seed) Even with my cased grain methods, you know I'm checking all my test cultures for strength
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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dankington
The Stranger




Registered: 03/14/15
Posts: 4,577
Loc: 8te
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Violet] 2
#23798610 - 11/03/16 06:24 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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oh wow. Do you have notifications set-up to webcrawl for mentions of your name? That's amazing.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: dankington]
#23798683 - 11/03/16 06:45 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Violet don't ya have most of this convo in a journal entry? I swear I seen this whole thread argument 3 years ago
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: cronicr]
#23805545 - 11/06/16 07:33 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Nah, sometimes I check in to see if I've missed anything of interest; I know how to UTFSE
Cron, not exactly. This topic doesn't appeal to me as much as it used to, since culture is of primary importance anyway. I've posted already what I do know about helping potential potency, and haven't seen any other good bets yet.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Violet]
#23805821 - 11/06/16 09:20 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hey Violet 
I don't want to suggest that substrate is of zero importance, there are some things that must be met. But I don't think the substrate is going to outweigh culture when it comes to what determines potency more. Not even close.
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LocN9ne
ɢᄋᄋd ԲᄋЯ ᄁᄋȚᅢΙᄁɢ ᄂᄋ₩ᄂΙԲᄐ



Registered: 04/17/15
Posts: 7,076
Loc: to the brain
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23805905 - 11/06/16 09:46 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Potency is ALL genetics, right? Like, I'm sure different subs provide nutritional supplements differently but all that just contributes to the overall health of the mushrooms... Like you can take a dipshit ass dude, feed him supplements and all that until he is the healthiest human on the planet... But he is still gonna be a dipshit, the only way to change that would be to educate him which is not a physical type of thing... So like, we need to figure out how to educate these motherfuckers... I'm high nvm
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Q&A US vs. THEM The more I learn, the less I know.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: LocN9ne]
#23805917 - 11/06/16 09:50 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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I guess what I'm saying is that if the substrate was deficient that could negatively effect the potency. But the ability to convert and produce actives and the potential of that is genetic.
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23805998 - 11/06/16 10:21 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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So if you knew the exact composition of a substrate and determined the relevant deficiency(s). And then added the required ingredients, that would improve potency and yield.
Which is a lot like my point with a soluble fertilizer.
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dankington
The Stranger




Registered: 03/14/15
Posts: 4,577
Loc: 8te
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23806006 - 11/06/16 10:23 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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That's what I've been meaning. Loc, you're right about the dipshit ass dude, but though genetic potential is key, training and nutrition can make a natural athlete better. I know that obviously genetics are the most important part of the equation, but what if you could train myc to create more alkaloids, like adding coffee to spawn to get a stone producer to make more stones. I know this has been a taboo topic on these boards forever. There have been tons of threads, and they're always dismissed with the argument "genetics". However, if genetics were all that mattered, athletes wouldn't train and take supplements like they do.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Ferather]
#23806010 - 11/06/16 10:24 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think you would be hard pressed to find a deficient substrate tat cubes do well on anyway so it becomes a retarded argument IMO
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Ferather]
#23806016 - 11/06/16 10:26 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ferather said: So if you knew the exact composition of a substrate and determined the relevant deficiency(s). And then added the required ingredients, that would improve potency and yield.
Which is a lot like my point with a soluble fertilizer.
Except if the substrate isn't deficient to begin with. Most people make their cubes substrate overly nutritious. You are more of an edible guy but most cube growers are pumping loads of spawn into their grows. The spawn is soaked with liquid coffee and gypsum. Before they spawn at what most gmm guys would consider and atrociously high spawn ratio, the grain is already packed full of nitrogen, calcium, and sulphur. It's far more nutritious than any cow turd could be.
When people suggest that standard cube methods are not nutritious enough I can't help but laugh.
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23806024 - 11/06/16 10:30 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Haha, ok fair enough then.
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blackout


Registered: 07/16/00
Posts: 5,266
Last seen: 2 months, 25 days
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Violet]
#23806316 - 11/06/16 11:56 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said: plenty of consolidation!
speaking of consolidation & potency...
people might have missed this recently bumped thread in advanced
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15181139
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: blackout]
#23806485 - 11/06/16 12:48 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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The consolidation angle while for the most part being unproven, is still interesting. More interesting than substrates from a potency angle. Just as those uber potent woodloving species grow on very low nute substrates, they do tend to take their sweet ass time to put out fruits. Years sometimes.
Penis varieties are said by many to be very potent. They also are notorious for taking forever to pin. Might be some corrolation there worth looking at closer.
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blackout


Registered: 07/16/00
Posts: 5,266
Last seen: 2 months, 25 days
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Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23806749 - 11/06/16 02:07 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Might be some corrolation there worth looking at closer.
In case people miss it, besides what might cause increases in potency, in the later posts in that thread I was suggesting that microdosing might be a very beneficial way of comparing potency. People can take doses very soon after each other, microdosing is said to have little tolerance build up, if tolerance does build up the does are in such close succession that it can be factored in. Since we are looking for "threshold" doses as being "too much" with microdosing I think it somewhat takes set & setting out of the mix, as it would be similar in most peoples day to day life. There is less gauging "was that level 4 or 5", its was that noticeable whatsoever, or not. Increase the dose until it becomes noticeable, then compare with the same isolate grown under different conditions, comparisons can be done on a day to day basis, not some random "6 months ago I was off my face at this beach party on 4g, had a load of beer & few joints too" -"I took 4g a year later and it had far less effect" -vs "I took 0.15g 29 days in a row and then 0.15g was far too much of the same isolate grown in a different way, and 0.1g still proved too much, and 0.05g seemed to give similar effects the next 20 days"
After reading about anomalies in measuring "potency" with "scientific" techniques, I would possibly trust my own bioassays with microdosing more -i.e. the "scientific method" might not be accounting for all the actives and symbiosis of the compounds we grow and how they interact.
Edited by blackout (11/06/16 02:46 PM)
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