|
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
|
Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
|
Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23790491 - 11/01/16 06:03 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Hard to say but I can say that the bunk PE genetics produced beautiful robust fruits, not a blob at all. I don't think that fruiting potential is directly corelated to active production. In fact my most potent fruits look wack by normal standards. Some of my more average potency fruits are robust by comparison.
Hmmm, I'd say it runs out of N-P then, if it has enough C-H-O and nutrients to produce a fruit body, it must be low on N-P.
Same effect, as such, if I add nutrients (soluble fertilizer), to 99% cellulose, I get more yield. And normal colonization time, whereas 99% cellulose takes 8 months and yields little.
No changes to energy (food) source, but an increase to nutrient ratio.
Golden oyster btw, not cubensis.
|
Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
|
Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Ferather]
#23790521 - 11/01/16 06:58 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Yes but the amounts of nitrogen needed are small. I always add some to the spawn anyways via coffee, provides plenty. Do 100 grows with 5 clones. When 1 is not potent regardless of substrate composition you learn that the issue is genetic. Remember I ran that culture on a range of substrates. Some were heavily supplimented.
Potency with cubensis has a massive range anyways, more than most species. It can go from dead bunk to copelandia potency with the average settling in the middle. I'm not going to suggest that substrate composition plays zero role, but I am convinced the ability to convert is genetic. So if a substrate is truely deficient that will cause a negative outcome, but that would be a very low nutrient value sub. Really cubes in nature occupy a secondary niche and manure growers are keeping them there.
Many studies with other species of fungi have shown that alkaloid production is dependent on nitrogen but that there are limiting factors. Adding more does not equal more alkaloids once the threshold is reached. In aspergillus the ability for a culture to convert nitrogen was also somewhat dependent on availability of zinc ions in the substrate. Which means that even if additional nitrogen could be used, there might be other limiting factors which are deficient.
|
Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
|
Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23790529 - 11/01/16 07:01 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Right, so its a lot like expanding Golden oyster too many times, which causes genetic dormancy. So if you take spores from a bunk, do they grow out as bunks too or as normal?
|
Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
|
Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Ferather]
#23790532 - 11/01/16 07:03 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
It's not senscence. That is a separate issue. Spores is a reset for the most part especially when dealing with domesticated and stable lines.
|
Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
|
Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23790542 - 11/01/16 07:09 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Thanks Pasty.
|
Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
|
Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Ferather] 2
#23792319 - 11/01/16 06:03 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Ferather said: So without growing a single active, I would like to research and reverse an active fungus.
Oh okay, well let's not jump the gun and assume this means there'll be statements like-
Quote:
Ferather said: Hmmm, I'd say it runs out of N-P then, if it has enough C-H-O and nutrients to produce a fruit body, it must be low on N-P.
Quote:
Ferather said: Right, so its a lot like expanding Golden oyster too many times, which causes genetic dormancy.
Oh darn, what a surprise..
|
Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
|
Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Inocuole]
#23793285 - 11/01/16 10:27 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Lol! So am I understanding this right? This guy wants to try to use soil to make the actives without growing any shrooms?? Or am I just straight up fucked?
If you want to synthesize it, you better be damn good at chemistry. I'm just researching some on it right now, and psilocin looks MUCH easier to synthesize. Fuck the phosphorus holding psilocybin.
The most easily obtainable precursor would probably be L-tryptophan, since I'm pretty sure 4-aco-DMT, 1 of the easiest, and most stable precursors of psilocin, is now illegal.
|
amidogen
see you on the other side

Registered: 05/07/16
Posts: 1,782
|
Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Mad Season] 1
#23793353 - 11/01/16 10:56 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
.
-------------------- The biggest trip of my life was realizing all of the events and actions described in posts made by this account were never real and had never actually happened, but were instead the delusional ramblings of a severely mentally ill human being. I just had to move on for my own good. I love you all.
Edited by amidogen (04/19/18 12:42 PM)
|
dankington
The Stranger




Registered: 03/14/15
Posts: 4,577
Loc: 8te
|
Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: amidogen]
#23793365 - 11/01/16 11:03 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
amidogen said:
Quote:
Mad Season said: Lol! So am I understanding this right? This guy wants to try to use soil to make the actives without growing any shrooms?? Or am I just straight up fucked?
No...he wants to throw plant food in the sub and/or casing to make the active shrooms more potent.
Be careful Mad. I'm an asshole for not jumping on board with this immediately.
no walter, you're not wrong you're just an asshole. 
I honestly don't think any conclusive tests have been done, but I bet proper treatment of the grain spawn could yield results. I know genetics play an even bigger role, but I think training the myc to create alkaloids early on could help--if we could properly determine what would usher the results we were looking for. Which means, ultimately legal ability to properly examine these species.
|
amidogen
see you on the other side

Registered: 05/07/16
Posts: 1,782
|
Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: dankington]
#23793377 - 11/01/16 11:06 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
.
-------------------- The biggest trip of my life was realizing all of the events and actions described in posts made by this account were never real and had never actually happened, but were instead the delusional ramblings of a severely mentally ill human being. I just had to move on for my own good. I love you all.
Edited by amidogen (06/21/18 11:28 AM)
|
Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
|
Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: amidogen]
#23793468 - 11/01/16 11:55 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Lol oh ok. I heard playing your shrooms music every day makes your trip much more funky
|
Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
|
Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Mad Season]
#23793866 - 11/02/16 07:44 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Hmm, I guess only testing will give us the result's right? And I know there are millions of fertilizers. I focus on optimizing nutrient to energy ratios, most of the products we use are energy rich.
Lets take rye as an example, 11% water, 70% carbohydrates, 18% fat + protein. Thats 1% nutrients, so we need to add more nutrients, and quite a bit.
Adding 100g rye flour to rye grain gives me 200g rye in total.
You can get fat on rye, but still need nutrients.
|
Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
|
Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Ferather]
#23793872 - 11/02/16 07:50 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
It is also possible that too much or too little of something causes genetic shutdown. Similar to, too much sugar causing genetic shutdown of insulin production.
|
Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
|
Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Ferather]
#23793883 - 11/02/16 07:56 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Why are you so convinced that it's an abundance of nutrients that are required for active formation? The most powerful species in the world grow on wood. Compare that to the high nute grain based substrates that dung lovers are grown on and the logic doesn't follow.
|
Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
|
Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23793896 - 11/02/16 08:07 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Isn't that comparing genetics? I'm sure azurescens will carry a larger array of digestive enzymes.
|
Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
|
Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Ferather]
#23793902 - 11/02/16 08:10 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
There is a big difference between comparing genetics within a species and comparing different species. But my point was to show that super potent species do not require an abundance of nutes to produce the actives. Assuming psilocybin is produced via a similar mechanism across species, then it does not stand to reason that a surge of nutes will necessarily result in higher active content.
|
natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
|
Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: Pastywhyte] 2
#23794192 - 11/02/16 10:37 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
That's a solid point pasty. I am sure the mechanisms of alkaloid production are near identical across all species of the same genus, so it doesn't stand to reason that nutrients play that big of an issue when it comes to their production.
Although, it is a known fact with plants, not necessarily fungus but who knows, that they can biosynthesize a higher percentage of their alkaloids when watered, sprayed, or even injected with precursors of said alkaloids.
The science behind biosynthesis via precursor administration is there, whether or not it can be done with a fungus is yet to be determined but it is not absolutely crazy to think that precursors, not basic nutrients, could in fact raise alkaloid production.
--------------------
|
amidogen
see you on the other side

Registered: 05/07/16
Posts: 1,782
|
Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: natedawgnow]
#23794840 - 11/02/16 03:07 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
.
-------------------- The biggest trip of my life was realizing all of the events and actions described in posts made by this account were never real and had never actually happened, but were instead the delusional ramblings of a severely mentally ill human being. I just had to move on for my own good. I love you all.
Edited by amidogen (04/19/18 12:43 PM)
|
natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
|
Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: amidogen]
#23795053 - 11/02/16 04:13 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Everything is composed of basic elements, even actual precursors to psilocin/psilocybin.
--------------------
|
amidogen
see you on the other side

Registered: 05/07/16
Posts: 1,782
|
Re: Lets reverse engineer actives [Re: natedawgnow]
#23795072 - 11/02/16 04:18 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
.
-------------------- The biggest trip of my life was realizing all of the events and actions described in posts made by this account were never real and had never actually happened, but were instead the delusional ramblings of a severely mentally ill human being. I just had to move on for my own good. I love you all.
Edited by amidogen (04/19/18 12:43 PM)
|
|