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Offlinetopdog82
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Are you okay with the govt forcing people to abort children?
    #23786225 - 10/30/16 04:51 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Let's say we have a mother named Sarah who is addicted to meth and is pregnant. And obviously, as a result, her kid will most likely have some cognitive detriments for the rest of his/her life. Would you say its fair for the govt to force her to get an abortion?

I'm surprised that drinking/smoking while pregnant is legal. I think its fair to force someone to abort their kid in this specific scenario

the whole "let's legalize drugs" thought process is because drugs effect only the user. but drinking while pregnant is akin to forcing alcohol down a 1 year old's throat


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OfflineKonyap

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Re: Are you okay with the govt forcing people to abort children? [Re: topdog82] * 1
    #23786359 - 10/30/16 05:25 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I say we abort Sarah:shrug:


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InvisibleDark_Star
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Re: Are you okay with the govt forcing people to abort children? [Re: topdog82]
    #23786364 - 10/30/16 05:28 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

No, not fair at all.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Are you okay with the govt forcing people to abort children? [Re: topdog82]
    #23786373 - 10/30/16 05:31 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

can we abort the parent instead?


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InvisiblePatrickKn
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Re: Are you okay with the govt forcing people to abort children? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23786389 - 10/30/16 05:38 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
can we abort the parent instead?



That might upset pro-lifers.


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InvisibleMad_Larkin
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Re: Are you okay with the govt forcing people to abort children? [Re: topdog82]
    #23786399 - 10/30/16 05:43 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

what kind of twisted morality are you using to justify aborting people just because theyre going to be mentally subnormal?


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Invisibleruaware
Registered: 06/30/16
Posts: 383
. [Re: Mad_Larkin]
    #23786410 - 10/30/16 05:47 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

.


Edited by ruaware (12/06/16 04:16 AM)


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InvisiblezZZz
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Re: Are you okay with the govt forcing people to abort children? [Re: topdog82]
    #23786430 - 10/30/16 05:54 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Were they talking about this shit at school or something?.. What made u post about this?...


--------------------
https://discord.gg/NHHd5y2Uyv


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InvisibleBiG_StroOnZ
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Re: Are you okay with the govt forcing people to abort children? [Re: zZZz]
    #23786465 - 10/30/16 06:09 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I think this is appropriate. You should realistically have to pass a standardized test to be able to have a child.


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OfflineKonyap

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Re: Are you okay with the govt forcing people to abort children? [Re: BiG_StroOnZ]
    #23786472 - 10/30/16 06:12 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

If these 'mothers' cared they would adopt instead
most of them do it because it's a status thing to have a fatherless home


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InvisibleMad_Larkin
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Re: Are you okay with the govt forcing people to abort children? [Re: BiG_StroOnZ]
    #23786481 - 10/30/16 06:16 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

BiG_StroOnZ said:
I think this is appropriate. You should realistically have to pass a standardized test to be able to have a child.




these two things arent analogous. depriving an already living organism of life is different to preventing the conception of said organism


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Are you okay with the govt forcing people to abort children? [Re: Dark_Star]
    #23786548 - 10/30/16 06:43 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Dark_Star said:
No, not fair at all.



why? whats your logic?

I just watched some news story about some kid who is basically autistic for life due to the moms heroin addiction?


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Are you okay with the govt forcing people to abort children? [Re: Mad_Larkin]
    #23786551 - 10/30/16 06:44 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mad_Larkin said:
what kind of twisted morality are you using to justify aborting people just because theyre going to be mentally subnormal?



lol no. Because you are bringing another being in this world and forcing it to not have the ability to communicate or live a full life

I see no issues? I mean if one of you guys walked in to me giving scotch to a baby in his baby bottle, would it be fair to say I am unfit parent?


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InvisibleMad_Larkin
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Re: Are you okay with the govt forcing people to abort children? [Re: topdog82]
    #23786552 - 10/30/16 06:44 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

you do realise that if we're going to make arbitrary judgement calls on people's intelligence then i could just as easily say that you should have been aborted?


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InvisiblePatrickKn
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Re: Are you okay with the govt forcing people to abort children? [Re: topdog82]
    #23786556 - 10/30/16 06:46 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

'Unfortunately' not everything can be regulated with too much ease. As they say, freedom isn't free. Sometimes you have to make concessions in society to keep things relatively equal and relatively fair (within reason), and that includes allowing people who probably shouldn't become parents.

It will be a few centuries before the world is on board with reproductive eugenics. Right now it's not morally okay. I personally disagree with eugenics myself for the time we live in.


Edited by PatrickKn (10/30/16 06:47 PM)


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Are you okay with the govt forcing people to abort children? [Re: Mad_Larkin]
    #23786559 - 10/30/16 06:47 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mad_Larkin said:
you do realise that if we're going to make arbitrary judgement calls on people's intelligence then i could just as easily say that you should have been aborted?



fair point. But then should we arrest the mother? perhaps take the kid into govt custody?


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Are you okay with the govt forcing people to abort children? [Re: topdog82] * 2
    #23786561 - 10/30/16 06:49 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:

I just watched some news story about some kid who is basically autistic for life due to the moms heroin addiction?




There's no real evidence that heroin causes autism, or that any illegal drugs cause retardation or any of these birth deficits that you're claiming.

The only side effects that have been scientifically established are low birth weight, premature delivery, and placental disruption. Everything else is mere speculation.

This is simply bad science to force abortions based on a possibility that hasn't been proven.


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InvisiblePatrickKn
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Re: Are you okay with the govt forcing people to abort children? [Re: topdog82]
    #23786563 - 10/30/16 06:49 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Arrest the mother for what? Doing methamphetamine?

We already do that.


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InvisibleBiG_StroOnZ
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Re: Are you okay with the govt forcing people to abort children? [Re: Mad_Larkin]
    #23786566 - 10/30/16 06:50 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mad_Larkin said:
Quote:

BiG_StroOnZ said:
I think this is appropriate. You should realistically have to pass a standardized test to be able to have a child.




these two things arent analogous. depriving an already living organism of life is different to preventing the conception of said organism




This isn't even English, what planet are you from kid?


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InvisibleMad_Larkin
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Re: Are you okay with the govt forcing people to abort children? [Re: topdog82]
    #23786567 - 10/30/16 06:50 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

well, thats exactly what happens in this situation...


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InvisibleBiG_StroOnZ
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Re: Are you okay with the govt forcing people to abort children? [Re: Mad_Larkin]
    #23786571 - 10/30/16 06:52 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mad_Larkin said:
well, thats exactly what happens in this situation...




Again, not English. This is an English forum speak English.


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InvisibleMad_Larkin
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Re: Are you okay with the govt forcing people to abort children? [Re: BiG_StroOnZ] * 1
    #23786573 - 10/30/16 06:52 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

BiG_StroOnZ said:
Quote:

Mad_Larkin said:
Quote:

BiG_StroOnZ said:
I think this is appropriate. You should realistically have to pass a standardized test to be able to have a child.




these two things arent analogous. depriving an already living organism of life is different to preventing the conception of said organism




This isn't even English, what planet are you from kid?




the one where people don't have trouble understanding simple sentences


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Are you okay with the govt forcing people to abort children? [Re: PatrickKn] * 1
    #23786575 - 10/30/16 06:53 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

PatrickKn said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
can we abort the parent instead?



That might upset pro-lifers.





fuck the pro lifers, knock them up and then abort their uptight asses


it's a win/win for everyone


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InvisibleBiG_StroOnZ
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Re: Are you okay with the govt forcing people to abort children? [Re: Mad_Larkin]
    #23786576 - 10/30/16 06:53 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mad_Larkin said:
Quote:

BiG_StroOnZ said:
Quote:

Mad_Larkin said:
Quote:

BiG_StroOnZ said:
I think this is appropriate. You should realistically have to pass a standardized test to be able to have a child.




these two things arent analogous. depriving an already living organism of life is different to preventing the conception of said organism




This isn't even English, what planet are you from kid?




the one where people don't have trouble understanding simple sentences




You don't even reply to what I say you stupid fucking dumb faggot. Hello!


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InvisibleMad_Larkin
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Re: Are you okay with the govt forcing people to abort children? [Re: BiG_StroOnZ]
    #23786578 - 10/30/16 06:53 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

BiG_StroOnZ said:
Quote:

Mad_Larkin said:
well, thats exactly what happens in this situation...




Again, not English. This is an English forum speak English.



:whateverhuman:


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InvisibleBiG_StroOnZ
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Re: Are you okay with the govt forcing people to abort children? [Re: Mad_Larkin]
    #23786580 - 10/30/16 06:54 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mad_Larkin said:
Quote:

BiG_StroOnZ said:
Quote:

Mad_Larkin said:
well, thats exactly what happens in this situation...




Again, not English. This is an English forum speak English.



:whateverhuman:




Keep talking bitch! One more word and you are banned for life. Dare you.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Are you okay with the govt forcing people to abort children? [Re: BiG_StroOnZ] * 2
    #23786583 - 10/30/16 06:56 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

BiG_StroOnZ said:
Quote:

Mad_Larkin said:
Quote:

BiG_StroOnZ said:
I think this is appropriate. You should realistically have to pass a standardized test to be able to have a child.




these two things arent analogous. depriving an already living organism of life is different to preventing the conception of said organism




This isn't even English, what planet are you from kid?






I suspect you arent capable of passing a standardized test. are your ready for your neutering?


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InvisibleBiG_StroOnZ
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Re: Are you okay with the govt forcing people to abort children? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23786586 - 10/30/16 06:58 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

BiG_StroOnZ said:
Quote:

Mad_Larkin said:
Quote:

BiG_StroOnZ said:
I think this is appropriate. You should realistically have to pass a standardized test to be able to have a child.




these two things arent analogous. depriving an already living organism of life is different to preventing the conception of said organism




This isn't even English, what planet are you from kid?






I suspect you arent capable of passing a standardized test. are your ready for your neutering?




I got straight A's in University, I dropped out of college to become a musician. 



And yes please castrate me because I never want to have another kid again. I just like to fuck.


Edited by BiG_StroOnZ (10/30/16 06:58 PM)


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InvisibleMad_Larkin
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Re: Are you okay with the govt forcing people to abort children? [Re: BiG_StroOnZ]
    #23786591 - 10/30/16 06:59 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

snip snip!


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Are you okay with the govt forcing people to abort children? [Re: PatrickKn]
    #23786599 - 10/30/16 07:02 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

topdog82 said:

I just watched some news story about some kid who is basically autistic for life due to the moms heroin addiction?




There's no real evidence that heroin causes autism, or that any illegal drugs cause retardation or any of these birth deficits that you're claiming.

The only side effects that have been scientifically established are low birth weight, premature delivery, and placental disruption. Everything else is mere speculation.

This is simply bad science to force abortions based on a possibility that hasn't been proven.





I guess this is what came up with a google search. Couldn't find the original article. If what you are saying is true, I am sorry for misinformation. But the fact that H may or may not cause birth defects is irrelevant. the main point was should we allow unfit drug addicted parents who practically knowingly caused serious mental retardation, a free pass? be it H or other drugs. For the context of the convo I chose meth. It could be alcohol or even cigs
Quote:

PatrickKn said:
Arrest the mother for what? Doing methamphetamine?

We already do that.



Besides that. I think all drugs should be legal. in this world how do we handle rents causing their kids' birth defects?

Also; this situation could apply to alcohol and cigs. You can fuck up your life. But when you fuck up your kids' life, that bad news


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Are you okay with the govt forcing people to abort children? [Re: BiG_StroOnZ]
    #23786605 - 10/30/16 07:05 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

BiG_StroOnZ said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
I suspect you arent capable of passing a standardized test. are your ready for your neutering?




I got straight A's in University, I dropped out of college to become a musician. 





so you cant pass any standardized tests. even 3rd graders can pass standardized tests



Quote:

And yes please castrate me because I never want to have another kid again. I just like to fuck.




hahaha... you may end up with more than just a bilateral orchiectomy


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Are you okay with the govt forcing people to abort children? [Re: topdog82]
    #23786608 - 10/30/16 07:06 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I am sort of rethinking the original thesis. Telling parents to abort kids was not my way of cleansing the gene pool. My idea here was that sentient beings dont really chose to be born. right? On top of that, some random person basically forces this being to mentally retarded? Doesn't seem fair to me at all. But I guess the ability to live or die should be granted at the age of 18? or 21? thats a whole diff convo. As suicide being legal or not opens up a whole new convo for a whole new thread

On the note of this thread, I think its fair to legalize drugs, then possibly arrest someone on the grounds that they are pregnant and using something that we know effects the kid. or, we could maybe make it so that only clean people can have kids?


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InvisibleBiG_StroOnZ
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Re: Are you okay with the govt forcing people to abort children? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23786614 - 10/30/16 07:09 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

BiG_StroOnZ said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
I suspect you arent capable of passing a standardized test. are your ready for your neutering?




I got straight A's in University, I dropped out of college to become a musician. 





so you cant pass any standardized tests. even 3rd graders can pass standardized tests



Quote:

And yes please castrate me because I never want to have another kid again. I just like to fuck.




hahaha... you may end up with more than just a vasectomy




Nope, one big failure!

Goodbye Santa's testis!


:rofl:


Edited by BiG_StroOnZ (10/30/16 08:01 PM)


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Are you okay with the govt forcing people to abort children? [Re: topdog82] * 3
    #23786615 - 10/30/16 07:10 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:
Let's say we have a mother named Sarah who is addicted to meth and is pregnant. And obviously, as a result, her kid will most likely have some cognitive detriments for the rest of his/her life. Would you say its fair for the govt to force her to get an abortion?



No. What a bizarre suggestion.

It is not fair for a government (or anyone else) to 'force' anyone to do anything. Only in a sick world could such a thing even be considered. They'd have to lock me up or kill me before I'd ever allow anyone to force their will upon me, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

What might be a more reasonable would be for the government to invest a huge chunk of money in educating people about life, and what it is to be a parent, how best to parent, the repercussions if you do not do your best, dealing with emotions, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, how to show, give and receive love, and how it is the single thing most important for the emotional health of all humans.

I'm sure we could clear some of the useless clutter out of the curriculum, like Pythagoras theorem, and home economics, to make room for the time required to teach this stuff.

Ideally this would be taught to as many people as possible somewhere around the time they hit puberty and are dealing with the mixed up emotions that come around that time.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: Are you okay with the govt forcing people to abort children? [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 2
    #23786623 - 10/30/16 07:15 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I think we should preemptively abort all straight white males for the next decade, just to even the odds.  Not for social justice really I am just having a hard time getting a girlfriend.


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Are you okay with the govt forcing people to abort children? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #23786631 - 10/30/16 07:19 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Lets just wait for AI to come along, and ask it what it thinks. I'm sure it'll give us the best solution to the conundrum.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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InvisibleMad_Larkin
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Re: Are you okay with the govt forcing people to abort children? [Re: topdog82]
    #23786641 - 10/30/16 07:23 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:
I am sort of rethinking the original thesis. Telling parents to abort kids was not my way of cleansing the gene pool. My idea here was that sentient beings dont really chose to be born. right? On top of that, some random person basically forces this being to mentally retarded? Doesn't seem fair to me at all. But I guess the ability to live or die should be granted at the age of 18? or 21? thats a whole diff convo. As suicide being legal or not opens up a whole new convo for a whole new thread

On the note of this thread, I think its fair to legalize drugs, then possibly arrest someone on the grounds that they are pregnant and using something that we know effects the kid. or, we could maybe make it so that only clean people can have kids?




of course in an ideal world sentient beings would get to choose the circumstances of their birth... but i don't know how you make the mental leap between that premise and the idea of euthenizing people because they aren't born into ideal circumstances... shouldn't people be allowed their best shot?

i think what you're yearning for is a world without suffering or impoverishment... technology and education have a far better chance of realising that than ill conceived eugenics programs


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Are you okay with the govt forcing people to abort children? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23786664 - 10/30/16 07:38 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
What might be a more reasonable would be for the government to invest a huge chunk of money in educating people about life, and what it is to be a parent, how best to parent, the repercussions if you do not do your best, dealing with emotions, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, how to show, give and receive love, and how it is the single thing most important for the emotional health of all humans.
.



k this is something I can agree on. Fair enough

but I still think its fair to jail someone if they drink during pregnancy


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Are you okay with the govt forcing people to abort children? [Re: topdog82]
    #23786719 - 10/30/16 08:00 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:
I guess this is what came up with a google search. Couldn't find the original article. If what you are saying is true, I am sorry for misinformation. But the fact that H may or may not cause birth defects is irrelevant. the main point was should we allow unfit drug addicted parents who practically knowingly caused serious mental retardation, a free pass? be it H or other drugs. For the context of the convo I chose meth. It could be alcohol or even cigs




Where the fuck is this "free pass" that you are talking about? CPS already confiscates children of parents who are using drugs, even for parents who smoke weed. If a woman shows up positive for any illegal drugs at the hospital when she gives birth, she already stands to lose custody.

Second of all, some countries such as France and Germany say that you can have up to a glass of wine a day even during pregnancy. In the 1950's, pregnant women smoked all the time, and most of those children turned out fine.


Edited by Crystal G (10/30/16 08:13 PM)


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Are you okay with the govt forcing people to abort children? [Re: topdog82]
    #23786737 - 10/30/16 08:07 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

People do far more damage through maltreatment and abuse of children due to their lack of education in regards to what is important in raising a child, and more importantly, the fact that they nearly always have buried down their own abuse and maltreatment because it is still so taboo to admit that we're all broken. Having the odd drink, smoke, or sniff during pregnancy is far from guaranteed to do any harm whatsoever. Stress hormones in the mother carrying probably do more harm, should we also jail people for being stressed?

How about free therapy for everyone to help them understand why the act the way they do, how to heal themselves, and thus how to avoid just passing all, or most, of their hangups and shitty behaviour along to their children, as so many parents do?

I think your path of thinking here (i.e, of punishment) is extremely immature, and is the last thing this world needs. Compassion and love is what we need, and punishment is the exact opposite of that.

You seem like a pretty openminded person TD, why you would think punishment is the answer bemuses me. Looking back over history, do you feel that punishment has ever really worked to keep us in check?

Shit, even incurring the wrath of the almighty god and being punished by burning forever in hell has hardly been shown to be a deterrent to stop taking actions which might lead one to that point.


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Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Are you okay with the govt forcing people to abort children? [Re: topdog82]
    #23786751 - 10/30/16 08:11 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Not only that, but your idea actually implemented into practice would produce far more disastrous consequences.

For starters, somebody who gets pregnant while heavily addicted to benzo's or opiates or alcohol, cannot simply just quit while she is pregnant. If she tries to quit cold turkey, or even taper too fast, it will cause a miscarriage since her fetus won't be able to handle the withdrawal and will die.

So let's say somebody who is addicted to these things get pregnant. Now she is going to be afraid of the legal ramifications, so she goes for her entire pregnancy without prenatal care. That's 9 months without prenatal care, without any help or guidance from a doctor who could have gotten her some rehabilitation or proper treatment to get her off the drugs in a safe manner.


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Are you okay with the govt forcing people to abort children? [Re: Crystal G]
    #23786892 - 10/30/16 09:00 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
People do far more damage through maltreatment and abuse of children due to their lack of education in regards to what is important in raising a child, and more importantly, the fact that they nearly always have buried down their own abuse and maltreatment because it is still so taboo to admit that we're all broken. Having the odd drink, smoke, or sniff during pregnancy is far from guaranteed to do any harm whatsoever. Stress hormones in the mother carrying probably do more harm, should we also jail people for being stressed?

How about free therapy for everyone to help them understand why the act the way they do, how to heal themselves, and thus how to avoid just passing all, or most, of their hangups and shitty behaviour along to their children, as so many parents do?

I think your path of thinking here (i.e, of punishment) is extremely immature, and is the last thing this world needs. Compassion and love is what we need, and punishment is the exact opposite of that.

You seem like a pretty openminded person TD, why you would think punishment is the answer bemuses me. Looking back over history, do you feel that punishment has ever really worked to keep us in check?

Shit, even incurring the wrath of the almighty god and being punished by burning forever in hell has hardly been shown to be a deterrent to stop taking actions which might lead one to that point.



Ya when you put it that way its a good point. I mean the drug war isn't really helping anyone. within the carrot versus stick paradigm, the stick does a lot more damage that we realize. and I guess this entire discussion is making me think twice about the original thesis I put forth
Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

topdog82 said:
I guess this is what came up with a google search. Couldn't find the original article. If what you are saying is true, I am sorry for misinformation. But the fact that H may or may not cause birth defects is irrelevant. the main point was should we allow unfit drug addicted parents who practically knowingly caused serious mental retardation, a free pass? be it H or other drugs. For the context of the convo I chose meth. It could be alcohol or even cigs




Where the fuck is this "free pass" that you are talking about? CPS already confiscates children of parents who are using drugs, even for parents who smoke weed. If a woman shows up positive for any illegal drugs at the hospital when she gives birth, she already stands to lose custody.

Second of all, some countries such as France and Germany say that you can have up to a glass of wine a day even during pregnancy. In the 1950's, pregnant women smoked all the time, and most of those children turned out fine.



hahahah ya and people who smoke a joint can sometimes go to jail longer than rapists and murderers. Just because the current system is fucked and throws drug users in jail that doesn't really justify letting drug users harm innocent unborn sentient beings


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Are you okay with the govt forcing people to abort children? [Re: Crystal G]
    #23786909 - 10/30/16 09:06 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Not only that, but your idea actually implemented into practice would produce far more disastrous consequences.

For starters, somebody who gets pregnant while heavily addicted to benzo's or opiates or alcohol, cannot simply just quit while she is pregnant. If she tries to quit cold turkey, or even taper too fast, it will cause a miscarriage since her fetus won't be able to handle the withdrawal and will die.

So let's say somebody who is addicted to these things get pregnant. Now she is going to be afraid of the legal ramifications, so she goes for her entire pregnancy without prenatal care. That's 9 months without prenatal care, without any help or guidance from a doctor who could have gotten her some rehabilitation or proper treatment to get her off the drugs in a safe manner.



okay this is also a very good counterpoint. I'll give credit where its due. I hope that if the drug war ends, addicts will get the help they need to wean off the drugs they are on

The way I look at it, is that most drug users are casual users. They just fuck around on the weekends. Thats me. Some drug users are habitual users. that used to be me. Then there are casual users of drugs who harm other people. Ie a rapist or murder who just so happens to smoke the occassional joint. Then theres habitual drug users who harm other people (but they too may just smoke weed or crack daily. Their crimes may have 0 to do with drugs or everything to do with drugs).

then theres the last percentage that really is the issue. drug users who harm others because of their drug use. realistically, if we legalized drugs and controlled/restricted them so that they were done in pure form and labeled properly, then this number would be about 1% of the total pool of drug users. and a woman who does xans whilst pregnant would most likely be in that group. I guess you two are pointing out the poor side effects of the policies I was supporting. Thats fair. the solution to our problems isn't more regulation, criminalization, and more govt. I guess at this point, I can just cross my fingers and hope that people make the right choices when given the objective info on the effects of their actions

also; if there are any typos on this post or my other ones, sorry. I was up all night on 2cb :cool:


Edited by topdog82 (10/30/16 09:07 PM)


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Re: Are you okay with the govt forcing people to abort children? [Re: topdog82]
    #23786960 - 10/30/16 09:21 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:
Quote:

Dark_Star said:
No, not fair at all.



why? whats your logic?

I just watched some news story about some kid who is basically autistic for life due to the moms heroin addiction?




Because it's not their choice to make, and making it for someone is wrong. And developmental delays don't mean that the child can't live a happy life. The government has no business denying that child's chance.


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Re: Are you okay with the govt forcing people to abort children? [Re: Dark_Star]
    #23786967 - 10/30/16 09:23 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Dark_Star said:
Quote:

topdog82 said:
Quote:

Dark_Star said:
No, not fair at all.



why? whats your logic?

I just watched some news story about some kid who is basically autistic for life due to the moms heroin addiction?




Because it's not their choice to make, and making it for someone is wrong. And developmental delays don't mean that the child can't live a happy life. The government has no business denying that child's chance.



ya I know lol. if you read through this thread, I sort of revised my thesis. regardless, its a really shitty situation


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