|
dodgem
Learner



Registered: 08/04/11
Posts: 2,683
Last seen: 6 months, 14 days
|
The Change-Over from Survival Being to Pleasure Being 2
#23785543 - 10/30/16 01:45 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
I got out my an old philosophy book I used for a online class a few years back to find a quote, and ended up finding something I had written in the margin that got me to thinking. The book states "when people choose between any two options, they always choose the option that gives them the most pleasure." I wrote in the margin "we are are now pleasure seeking animals. We used to be survival seeking animals like every other living being, but we conquered survival."
I also remembered I saved this quote from almost 2 years ago as the first couple sentences are related.
Quote:
Silversoul said: I think it actually all goes back to hominids learning how to tame fire. I know it sounds far-fetched, but let me explain. When our ancestors tamed fire, it kept them safe at night, and allowed for people to start thinking beyond survival mode. The imaginations that had allowed us to build stone tools now allowed us to create narratives. The art of story-telling began, which expanded our conceptual framework. Sitting around the fire telling stories is a primordial experience that we can feel even today when we go camping. Also, if you've gone camping, you might also realize the allure of the fire itself. There's something about staring into the flames that gives a kind of hypnotic comfort. It turns out that computers, TVs, and film projectors give off a similar light frequency. So as you sit in front of your computer monitor right now, there's a very primordial instinct being triggered within you.
So it seems by taming fire, and then later learning how to agriculture (verb?), etc. we no longer had to spend as much time working and thinking on how to survive until the next day which in turn allowed more down to focus our energy towards another mode of life. A life of pleasure. Before, 100% of our brain power was used to stay alive, but if that drops to 90% there is now 10% of brain power that can be used for something else. Could this also the beginning of human consciousness, when our mind/body was allowed to start thinking of something other than what needs to be done to survive in that second --> The chance to actually observe and become aware of what was happening not only around themselves, but also in themselves? Is consciousness somehow related to the search for pleasure? Or was it always there, but just masked by the overpowering demand of survival on the brain.
Until the past ~75 - 100 years survival was still a great demand on humans. But more recently, after things like the industrial revolution someone that is located in a first world country and 'well off' has no need to spend time thinking about survival as they can walk to the grocery store for subsistence, they have walls around them with constant/controlled air temperature. etc. Could this be the reason for our jump in technology/the internet. When you take a step back and look at how we communicate today, it is almost as if our individual consciousness is forming a single connected consciousness.
--------------------
Walk where you like your steps
|
Psilosopherr
A psilly goose



Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 12,278
Last seen: 1 month, 10 days
|
Re: The Change-Over from Survival Being to Pleasure Being [Re: dodgem]
#23785582 - 10/30/16 01:58 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
interesting..now to conquer pleasure
|
sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
|
Re: The Change-Over from Survival Being to Pleasure Being [Re: Psilosopherr]
#23785605 - 10/30/16 02:05 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
While our hominid ancestors enjoyed the warmth of fire it's more likely that entheogen use was what attributed to the development of perception.
E.g. 30,000 year old cave paintings in southern France were found that depict opium burning stands and are the first example of meticulous in anthropic art.
It pretty much means fine art was first catalogued in 30,000 year old caves that depicted opium use.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
|
Psilosopherr
A psilly goose



Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 12,278
Last seen: 1 month, 10 days
|
Re: The Change-Over from Survival Being to Pleasure Being [Re: sudly] 1
#23785644 - 10/30/16 02:18 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
no need to get a one track mind over it. The origin of consciousness is likely complex with more than one factor. I don't know how the timelines line up but maybe fire + farming + entheogens + ? = ?
|
sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
|
Re: The Change-Over from Survival Being to Pleasure Being [Re: Psilosopherr]
#23785670 - 10/30/16 02:25 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
I don't doubt there's a mixture of other influences but I still think the most influential one would be an entheogen as some of them contain neurotransmitter mimicking chemicals that directly affect our conscious experience.
E.g. Psilocybin
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
|
Re: The Change-Over from Survival Being to Pleasure Being [Re: dodgem]
#23786435 - 10/30/16 05:56 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Fair points, but what do you mean by pleasure? For instance, most hunter-gatherers had far more leisure time than modern civilized humans. The San Bushmen (aka the !Kung) of the Kalahari work(ed) on average 15-17 hours per week.
So you must not mean leisure.
But if you asked a Bushman whether his life was pleasurable, he would invariably answer yes. These are very fulfilled and happy people.
So... how to define pleasure.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
Psilosopherr
A psilly goose



Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 12,278
Last seen: 1 month, 10 days
|
Re: The Change-Over from Survival Being to Pleasure Being [Re: DividedQuantum]
#23786929 - 10/30/16 09:12 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Interesting points, though I always wonder how accurate those figures about indigenous "work weeks" are.
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
|
Re: The Change-Over from Survival Being to Pleasure Being [Re: Psilosopherr]
#23787121 - 10/30/16 10:27 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
They're extremely accurate, studied by anthropologists who do extensive field work. It is not guess work. I can provide you with links if you wish.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
Psilosopherr
A psilly goose



Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 12,278
Last seen: 1 month, 10 days
|
Re: The Change-Over from Survival Being to Pleasure Being [Re: DividedQuantum]
#23787131 - 10/30/16 10:37 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Yeah I'll take a look if you don't mind. Always like learning about how things were done back then.
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
|
Re: The Change-Over from Survival Being to Pleasure Being [Re: Psilosopherr]
#23787189 - 10/30/16 11:08 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
A striking feature of hunter-gatherer subsistence is the amount of time dedicated to the actual food quest. Lee points out that in all, the adults of the !Kung camp he visited worked about two and a half days a week. Since the average working day was about six hours long, the !Kung, even despite their harsh environment, devote from twelve to nineteen hours per week to getting food. Even the hunter who worked the hardest -- who went out on sixteen of the twenty-eight days -- spent a maximum of thirty-two hours a week in the food quest (Lee 1968). Sahlins explains that the sixty-five percent of the people in a !Kung camp who were effective food producers worked 36 percent of the time, and 35 percent of the people did not work at all (Lee 1969; Sahlins 1972). The Dobe !Kung work week is approximately 15 hours, or an average of 2 hours 9 minutes per day.
http://5-2.huntergatherers.org/
Lee, Richard B. Eating Christmas in the Kalahari. Natural History December 1969:60-64.
Lee, R. B., and Irven Devore. Man the Hunter. Hawthorne, N.Y.: Aldine de Gruyter, 1968.
Sahlins, Marshall. Stone Age Economics. New York: Aldine de Gruyter, 1972.
http://www.rewild.com/in-depth/leisure.html
http://hunter-gatherers.org/facts-and-theories.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_affluent_society
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
|
Re: The Change-Over from Survival Being to Pleasure Being [Re: dodgem]
#23787615 - 10/31/16 06:21 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
with respect your idea that many people are NOT struggling to survive in THIS fked up mean brutal world seems to come from someone who leads a sheltered life?
You say you were/are a student? Did you have to take a loan? Are you in debt?
I mean, most people are 3 wage packets away (if you GOT a job) from homelessness, if for example in a VERY 'rich' affluent city like London.
Most roads now are full of cars, vans, trucks manically speeding left and right all hours with people caught up in the rat race, to...? Survive!
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
|
Re: The Change-Over from Survival Being to Pleasure Being [Re: DividedQuantum]
#23787689 - 10/31/16 07:26 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
DividedQuantum said: Fair points, but what do you mean by pleasure? For instance, most hunter-gatherers had far more leisure time than modern civilized humans. The San Bushmen (aka the !Kung) of the Kalahari work(ed) on average 15-17 hours per week.
So you must not mean leisure.
But if you asked a Bushman whether his life was pleasurable, he would invariably answer yes. These are very fulfilled and happy people.
So... how to define pleasure.
I wonder if they included travel time for the bushmen - finding a spot to dig roots or stalking a gazelle.
our workdays are long but the commutes... damn! the commute is murder. confinement without privacy in transit, and the confinement behind the wheel - driving tons of metal and glass on multi-lane highways are both extremely not pleasurable to me.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
dodgem
Learner



Registered: 08/04/11
Posts: 2,683
Last seen: 6 months, 14 days
|
Re: The Change-Over from Survival Being to Pleasure Being [Re: zzripz]
#23788410 - 10/31/16 12:13 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zzripz said: with respect your idea that many people are NOT struggling to survive in THIS fked up mean brutal world seems to come from someone who leads a sheltered life?
You say you were/are a student? Did you have to take a loan? Are you in debt?
I mean, most people are 3 wage packets away (if you GOT a job) from homelessness, if for example in a VERY 'rich' affluent city like London.
Most roads now are full of cars, vans, trucks manically speeding left and right all hours with people caught up in the rat race, to...? Survive!
I see your point. I guess I was talking about the idea of every decision you make is about how to stay alive in the next moment. I think of it from an ants perspective. Each second an ant has a decision to make and it will make the one that has the higher percentage of keeping it alive in that instance. I think humans/homo sapiens used to function like this, but were able to move past that.
Yea we are still 'working' to stay alive, but I do not think the decisions we make are as much about survival, but what will give them pleasure, as in the first quote. I have always thought about it with cigarettes. If we as a species were still built to think solely on survival, cigarettes would not be a thing. We know it is detrimental to our health, yet people still smoke them to receive some sort of 'pleasure' that is able to override the survival instincts that once dominated our decisions on this planet. No other living creature on earth would choose something that would decrease their chance of survival if they knew the options beforehand.
--------------------
Walk where you like your steps
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: The Change-Over from Survival Being to Pleasure Being [Re: DividedQuantum]
#23790483 - 11/01/16 05:56 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
DividedQuantum said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_affluent_society
the current line of anthropological thought (in the mainstream), being that ancient man was as primitive as to be akin to a mean-spirited shlub is outdated. the forest dwelling man probably were very intelligent, just simply without the labels to grasp things within the world, that were beyond their normative survival behavior, from the inception of their existence as a species; and as they derived from culture it's progressive thought, they probably had a fine regard for their society, until strife occurred; usually with the call to empire -- and eventually Gods.
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
|
Re: The Change-Over from Survival Being to Pleasure Being [Re: akira_akuma] 1
#23790687 - 11/01/16 08:47 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
akira_akuma said:
Quote:
DividedQuantum said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_affluent_society
the current line of anthropological thought (in the mainstream), being that ancient man was as primitive as to be akin to a mean-spirited shlub is outdated. the forest dwelling man probably were very intelligent, just simply without the labels to grasp things within the world, that were beyond their normative survival behavior, from the inception of their existence as a species; and as they derived from culture it's progressive thought, they probably had a fine regard for their society, until strife occurred; usually with the call to empire -- and eventually Gods.
Yes, well said, and strife was the by-product of a stratified society -- different tribes and different city-states engaging in war for the first time. Early humans had the occasional healthy spat, but did not know war as we have known it in civilization.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
hTx
(:



Registered: 03/27/13
Posts: 5,724
Loc: Space-time
|
Re: The Change-Over from Survival Being to Pleasure Being [Re: DividedQuantum]
#23792101 - 11/01/16 05:06 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Reminds me of this passage
Quote:
While the fifth tunnel-reality can be achieved by sensory deprivation, social isolation, physiological stress or severe shock (ceremonial terror tactics, as practiced by such rascal-gurus as Don Juan Matus or Aleister Crowley), it has traditionally been reserved to the educated aristocracy of leisure societies who have solved the four terrestrial survival problems.
from Robert Anton Wilson
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
|
Kickle
Wanderer


Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,856
Last seen: 45 minutes, 24 seconds
|
Re: The Change-Over from Survival Being to Pleasure Being [Re: dodgem] 1
#23792349 - 11/01/16 06:10 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
dodgem said: I got out my an old philosophy book I used for a online class a few years back to find a quote, and ended up finding something I had written in the margin that got me to thinking. The book states "when people choose between any two options, they always choose the option that gives them the most pleasure." I wrote in the margin "we are are now pleasure seeking animals. We used to be survival seeking animals like every other living being, but we conquered survival."
I also remembered I saved this quote from almost 2 years ago as the first couple sentences are related.
Quote:
Silversoul said: I think it actually all goes back to hominids learning how to tame fire. I know it sounds far-fetched, but let me explain. When our ancestors tamed fire, it kept them safe at night, and allowed for people to start thinking beyond survival mode. The imaginations that had allowed us to build stone tools now allowed us to create narratives. The art of story-telling began, which expanded our conceptual framework. Sitting around the fire telling stories is a primordial experience that we can feel even today when we go camping. Also, if you've gone camping, you might also realize the allure of the fire itself. There's something about staring into the flames that gives a kind of hypnotic comfort. It turns out that computers, TVs, and film projectors give off a similar light frequency. So as you sit in front of your computer monitor right now, there's a very primordial instinct being triggered within you.
So it seems by taming fire, and then later learning how to agriculture (verb?), etc. we no longer had to spend as much time working and thinking on how to survive until the next day which in turn allowed more down to focus our energy towards another mode of life. A life of pleasure. Before, 100% of our brain power was used to stay alive, but if that drops to 90% there is now 10% of brain power that can be used for something else. Could this also the beginning of human consciousness, when our mind/body was allowed to start thinking of something other than what needs to be done to survive in that second --> The chance to actually observe and become aware of what was happening not only around themselves, but also in themselves? Is consciousness somehow related to the search for pleasure? Or was it always there, but just masked by the overpowering demand of survival on the brain.
Until the past ~75 - 100 years survival was still a great demand on humans. But more recently, after things like the industrial revolution someone that is located in a first world country and 'well off' has no need to spend time thinking about survival as they can walk to the grocery store for subsistence, they have walls around them with constant/controlled air temperature. etc. Could this be the reason for our jump in technology/the internet. When you take a step back and look at how we communicate today, it is almost as if our individual consciousness is forming a single connected consciousness. 
I guess for me this question appears quite a bit differently. I don't think we pursue pleasure with our working efforts so much as we pursue an absence of pain/decay/death. And I don't think our modern pursuits are any different from any other time in history here. I'm sure eating the first cooked piece of meat from that fire was quite enjoyable -- but not the reason for the fire.
I don't see people working because they are motivated to feel pleasure. I see people working because they are trying to avoid pitfalls. But I may be off-base. Maybe people are working for pleasure.
Maybe Elon Musk is trying to get to mars because he thinks it will be a blast and not because it's essential to our survival.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
|
Re: The Change-Over from Survival Being to Pleasure Being [Re: Kickle]
#23792433 - 11/01/16 06:34 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
That's the way I lean, Kickle.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: The Change-Over from Survival Being to Pleasure Being [Re: DividedQuantum]
#23792461 - 11/01/16 06:42 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
the Positive-Incentive Perspective of Hunger is really interesting, and i think, accurate.
without the pleasure centers of the brain driving incentive/reward, our psychology would permit us, and our biology would permit us, to eat only minimally to rid hunger pangs, primarily because (IMO; it seems...) our bodies do not have the innate ability to tell us what it's missing in it's essential nutritional make-up, ie, what it needs in terms of satiation.
all it tells us, "ouch, hurt" -- and when we eat something, we recognize that our pangs go away, and we move on, thinking "all done". see this poses a problem: because our bodies can rid itself of pangs from minimal intake of food, and of course, still be woefully undernourished, though, biologically, one can't tell that unless you visit a doctor (obviously in human history, a pretty new concept).
sure your body will initiate it's own signals of hunger, but they are simply perceived as pains the body goes through, and to avoid it, it's as easy as eating even the tiniest bit of food -- if we live like that, we don't live long.
the reward system allows us to psychologically WANT more than we need, to the extent that we will break out backs for more (so to speak -- but a nice metaphor), which is essentially better for survival. the fact that we psychological want complimentary good food, due to our intense pleasure in eating foods, (without which there'd be no difference in which foods you eat; another important point; you'd have no preferences, so...) so, you end up wanting to mix and match -- which not only provides for awesome cuisine's within cultures, but also, a much better survival mechanism; stocking up.
PS: old post, but relevant; also, it appears that i'd agree that we started out with the pursuit of survival, but then pleasure is an essentially much better driver for survival than just plain conservatism, -- which is only a last resort, or the through the cause of psychological regression (ie, fuck having fun and pleasure, i'm going to go live on a mountain).
|
Kickle
Wanderer


Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,856
Last seen: 45 minutes, 24 seconds
|
Re: The Change-Over from Survival Being to Pleasure Being [Re: akira_akuma]
#23792477 - 11/01/16 06:47 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
I agree, desire is a survival mechanism.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: The Change-Over from Survival Being to Pleasure Being [Re: Kickle]
#23792505 - 11/01/16 06:55 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
survival is overrated. people die for stupid shit all the time, and don't even get a Darwin.
|
pineninja
Dream Weaver



Registered: 08/17/14
Posts: 12,468
Loc: South
|
Re: The Change-Over from Survival Being to Pleasure Being [Re: Kickle] 1
#23792514 - 11/01/16 06:57 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Without the absolute necessities of survival to drive actions, pleasure and what it means to be can be dictated by those who promise purpose.
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: The Change-Over from Survival Being to Pleasure Being [Re: pineninja]
#23792521 - 11/01/16 06:58 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
so far, not. but we can hope people stop being insane.
|
Kickle
Wanderer


Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,856
Last seen: 45 minutes, 24 seconds
|
Re: The Change-Over from Survival Being to Pleasure Being [Re: pineninja]
#23792544 - 11/01/16 07:05 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
pineninja said: Without the absolute necessities of survival to drive actions, pleasure and what it means to be can be dictated by those who promise purpose.
maybe? what do you mean by "absolute necessities of survival"?
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
|
pineninja
Dream Weaver



Registered: 08/17/14
Posts: 12,468
Loc: South
|
Re: The Change-Over from Survival Being to Pleasure Being [Re: akira_akuma] 1
#23792545 - 11/01/16 07:05 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
The further we travel from the necessary the deeper in the mire of emotions and lust we find ourselves. We are now at a point in the west where happiness is dictated by those with the least to offer.
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
|
pineninja
Dream Weaver



Registered: 08/17/14
Posts: 12,468
Loc: South
|
Re: The Change-Over from Survival Being to Pleasure Being [Re: Kickle] 1
#23792564 - 11/01/16 07:09 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Kickle said:
Quote:
pineninja said: Without the absolute necessities of survival to drive actions, pleasure and what it means to be can be dictated by those who promise purpose.
maybe? what do you mean by "absolute necessities of survival"?
What would you consider necessary ? We have all been pushed so far away we are now forced to re assess what it is we actually needed....in spite of the true knowledge being a fundamental part of what we are we are forced to question and alter our paradigms. In doing so we are manipulated away from life for life's sake and love for loves sake.
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: The Change-Over from Survival Being to Pleasure Being [Re: pineninja]
#23792568 - 11/01/16 07:11 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
more than pleasure is a tyranny, it's time.
time and the unwillingness to supersede positions of power that are based on mythlore and religion...to be quite honest, i'm not even anti-religion. it's a process.
|
pineninja
Dream Weaver



Registered: 08/17/14
Posts: 12,468
Loc: South
|
Re: The Change-Over from Survival Being to Pleasure Being [Re: akira_akuma]
#23792611 - 11/01/16 07:20 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
If time were to be represented in a moment or as a circle (as I believe it to be) then progression or regression are only illusions and will be used against you...... ie here are the answers to the questions that you cannot see. Does the tree question its existence and are we superior because we do?
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: The Change-Over from Survival Being to Pleasure Being [Re: pineninja]
#23792697 - 11/01/16 07:36 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
|
Kickle
Wanderer


Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,856
Last seen: 45 minutes, 24 seconds
|
Re: The Change-Over from Survival Being to Pleasure Being [Re: pineninja]
#23792838 - 11/01/16 08:11 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
pineninja said:
Quote:
Kickle said:
Quote:
pineninja said: Without the absolute necessities of survival to drive actions, pleasure and what it means to be can be dictated by those who promise purpose.
maybe? what do you mean by "absolute necessities of survival"?
What would you consider necessary ? We have all been pushed so far away we are now forced to re assess what it is we actually needed....in spite of the true knowledge being a fundamental part of what we are we are forced to question and alter our paradigms. In doing so we are manipulated away from life for life's sake and love for loves sake.
the only thing necessary for survival IMO is to be alive or said another way, to be able to die
I have no idea what you're trying to say with the rest
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
|
pineninja
Dream Weaver



Registered: 08/17/14
Posts: 12,468
Loc: South
|
Re: The Change-Over from Survival Being to Pleasure Being [Re: Kickle]
#23792935 - 11/01/16 08:39 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
We agree. Our existence has been deliberately and manifestly confused. Our lot is just to be, realising this has been liberating.
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
|
|