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OfflineSkellies


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All 7 defendants in Malheur Refuge standoff found not guilty
    #23784144 - 10/29/16 11:20 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

"The end of the six-week trial for seven people who took over the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in eastern Oregon can be summed up in two words: not guilty."


After the decision a fight broke out between Bundy's attorney and the Marshals.


"Despite the victory in court, Ammon Bundy attorney Marcus Mumford insisted the acquittal did not go far enough.

After the verdicts were read, Mumford told Brown his client should be allowed to go free. Ammon Bundy is scheduled for transfer to Nevada, where he faces charges for the Bunkerville standoff.

Brown told Mumford that his client was not allowed to leave, but the attorney persisted, raising his voice as he argued with the judge. The incident ended with Mumford being tackled by several U.S. Marshals and Brown clearing the courtroom."

http://www.opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/ammon-bundy-verdict-oregon-standoff-malheur-court/


What do you think? Should they have been found guilty? Should Bundy be released as a free man?


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Offline5150
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Re: All 7 defendants in Malheur Refuge standoff found not guilty [Re: Skellies]
    #23785591 - 10/30/16 02:01 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Dont know ,will have to look at some vids of it


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OfflineSkellies


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Re: All 7 defendants in Malheur Refuge standoff found not guilty [Re: 5150]
    #23786550 - 10/30/16 06:44 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

~9 months ago an armed militia seized the Malheur wildlife Refuge over disputes regarding the prosecution of a rancher. The basically wanted the federal government to return grazing lands either to the state or to private ownership. It ended up with most of the militia gradually leaving over time. Near the end of it the feds stopped multiple vehicles heading to the reserve and ended up shooting the militia's spokesman Robert "LaVoy" Finicum. The feds claim Finicum was reaching for his handgun but the militia members say otherwise.



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OfflineSkellies


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Re: All 7 defendants in Malheur Refuge standoff found not guilty [Re: Skellies]
    #23786611 - 10/30/16 07:07 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Here are some images from the standoff.

Militia:







Law enforcement:







Negotiations with Ammon Bundy:



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Invisiblexvf
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Re: All 7 defendants in Malheur Refuge standoff found not guilty [Re: Skellies]
    #23787249 - 10/30/16 11:41 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Good for them. But they are still facing charges in Nevada.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: All 7 defendants in Malheur Refuge standoff found not guilty [Re: xvf] * 3
    #23789898 - 10/31/16 09:05 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

This is fucking ridiculous. These fuckers should be in prison.


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Offlinepsilynut
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Re: All 7 defendants in Malheur Refuge standoff found not guilty [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23789932 - 10/31/16 09:21 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

They should have at least given them community service . They should have had to work for free at the wildlife refuge .


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: All 7 defendants in Malheur Refuge standoff found not guilty [Re: psilynut]
    #23792416 - 11/01/16 06:27 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

psilynut said:
They should have at least given them community service . They should have had to work for free at the wildlife refuge .




That would have been hilarious.

Regardless, is there something I am missing here? I'm waiting for Enlil to chime in with the legal justification for dropping charges for this obvious crime.

I wonder, do you guys think if this was a group of Black Panthers doing this, do you think they would be let off so easily? Doubtful.


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"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
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"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
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"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: All 7 defendants in Malheur Refuge standoff found not guilty [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23792451 - 11/01/16 06:39 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
I'm waiting for Enlil to chime in with the legal justification for dropping charges for this obvious crime.




I'm not Enlil but I'll weigh in on what I know. The primary charge was 18 U.S. Code § 372Conspiracy to impede or injure officer
Quote:

If two or more persons in any State, Territory, Possession, or District conspire to prevent, by force, intimidation, or threat, any person from accepting or holding any office, trust, or place of confidence under the United States, or from discharging any duties thereof, or to induce by like means any officer of the United States to leave the place, where his duties as an officer are required to be performed, or to injure him in his person or property on account of his lawful discharge of the duties of his office, or while engaged in the lawful discharge thereof, or to injure his property so as to molest, interrupt, hinder, or impede him in the discharge of his official duties, each of such persons shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six years, or both.




Evidently the jury wasn't convinced that there was any such conspiracy. The "standoff" was obviously intended as an act of civil disobedience and an effort to air grievances. It was not intended to "impede" federal employees or whatever. Make of it what you will, but they had/have legitimate grievances that have yet to be properly addressed... so the dispute is as of yet unresolved, despite this recent acquittal. This whole ordeal has been a tremendous waste of time for all parties involved.


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OfflineChristopherABrown
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Re: All 7 defendants in Malheur Refuge standoff found not guilty [Re: Great Scott]
    #23793210 - 11/01/16 10:01 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
I'm waiting for Enlil to chime in with the legal justification for dropping charges for this obvious crime.




I'm not Enlil but I'll weigh in on what I know. The primary charge was 18 U.S. Code § 372Conspiracy to impede or injure officer
Quote:

If two or more persons in any State, Territory, Possession, or District conspire to prevent, by force, intimidation, or threat, any person from accepting or holding any office, trust, or place of confidence under the United States, or from discharging any duties thereof, or to induce by like means any officer of the United States to leave the place, where his duties as an officer are required to be performed, or to injure him in his person or property on account of his lawful discharge of the duties of his office, or while engaged in the lawful discharge thereof, or to injure his property so as to molest, interrupt, hinder, or impede him in the discharge of his official duties, each of such persons shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six years, or both.




Evidently the jury wasn't convinced that there was any such conspiracy. The "standoff" was obviously intended as an act of civil disobedience and an effort to air grievances. It was not intended to "impede" federal employees or whatever. Make of it what you will, but they had/have legitimate grievances that have yet to be properly addressed... so the dispute is as of yet unresolved, despite this recent acquittal. This whole ordeal has been a tremendous waste of time for all parties involved.




Yep, there is a real case of federal overreach that is a constitutional violation.  When laws are  made that are not constitutional with proper amendment justifying them, problems are created. 

Congress is essentially conducting treason related to the fully lawful methods for states to assure their rights and federal conformance to the constitution.  But Bundy never talks about that. Weird.  That fact you do not hear about this due to MSM protecting congress and the general sheepish tendency of Americans who do not really understand the constitution.

This is VERY serious.

Are you aware that in 1911, 2/3 of the states applied for a convention and congress violated the law, their oath and the constitution by failing to convene delegates and that this continues today?



The letter linked from this .pdf to the clerk of congress started it all.

http://www.foavc.org/reference/file50.pdf

This fact justifies that all delegates be elected in the states by the people of those states.

Because of that letter, the house finally adopts rule to count states applications for Article V.

http://www.examiner.com/article/u-s-...n-applications

However, congress refused to start counting applications occuring before the letter.  The speakers were sued.

http://www.foavc.org/reference/doc4.pdf

That suit, of course was denied.  Government is deeply unlawful.  These three .pdf's by Bill Walker explain the developing status.

http://www.foavc.org/reference/file67.pdf

http://www.foavc.org/reference/file70.pdf

http://www.foavc.org/reference/file71.pdf

http://www.foavc.org/reference/file73.pdf

http://www.foavc.org/reference/file74.pdf

http://www.foavc.org/reference/file75.pdf

National Archives and Records Administration Attemps to Terminate the fact of an Article V Convention as a right.

http://www.foavc.org/reference/file77.pdf

http://www.foavc.org/reference/file78.pdf




Edited by ChristopherABrown (11/01/16 10:28 PM)


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: All 7 defendants in Malheur Refuge standoff found not guilty [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23798890 - 11/03/16 07:48 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
I'm waiting for Enlil to chime in with the legal justification for dropping charges for this obvious crime.




What makes you think charges were dropped?


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: All 7 defendants in Malheur Refuge standoff found not guilty [Re: Enlil]
    #23803001 - 11/05/16 10:53 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
I'm waiting for Enlil to chime in with the legal justification for dropping charges for this obvious crime.




What makes you think charges were dropped?




They were acquitted, w/e.


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Re: All 7 defendants in Malheur Refuge standoff found not guilty [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #23803181 - 11/05/16 12:07 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

You don't see the difference between the two?

Dropped charges means the prosecutor changed his mind or was pressured to.  Acquittal means a jury, after watching a full trial, found that there wasn't enough evidence to convict.  This was the latter.

My question for you is what makes you think you're in a better position to judge their guilt than someone who actually watched the trial?


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: All 7 defendants in Malheur Refuge standoff found not guilty [Re: Enlil]
    #23803427 - 11/05/16 01:33 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

He just hates what he perceives as rednecks or whatever. He probably would have been screened out for jury duty in this trial.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: All 7 defendants in Malheur Refuge standoff found not guilty [Re: Great Scott]
    #23810385 - 11/07/16 05:40 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
He probably would have been screened out for jury duty in this trial.



I think you nailed it.  The jury was probably a bunch of rednecks.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: All 7 defendants in Malheur Refuge standoff found not guilty [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #23810411 - 11/07/16 05:48 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
He probably would have been screened out for jury duty in this trial.



I think you nailed it.  The jury was probably a bunch of rednecks.




That's actually what I was thinking. I'm not particularly familiar with the details of this case, but as far as I am aware, any time a group of men take over a territory using guns or other means of force, they are generally operating outside of the law. I would think, since this was government property, they would have gotten the book thrown at them.

Quote:

Enlil said:
You don't see the difference between the two?

Dropped charges means the prosecutor changed his mind or was pressured to.  Acquittal means a jury, after watching a full trial, found that there wasn't enough evidence to convict.  This was the latter.

My question for you is what makes you think you're in a better position to judge their guilt than someone who actually watched the trial?




I understand the difference. I didn't watch the trial, but from what I know about it, it seems pretty cut and dry. As I understand it, these fellas aren't off the hook yet anyway.


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Edited by Bigbadwooof (11/07/16 05:49 PM)


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InvisibleDoes

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Re: All 7 defendants in Malheur Refuge standoff found not guilty [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23810428 - 11/07/16 05:52 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Hopefully they kept Pete Saltillo in the clink


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Re: All 7 defendants in Malheur Refuge standoff found not guilty [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23810441 - 11/07/16 05:55 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
I understand the difference. I didn't watch the trial, but from what I know about it, it seems pretty cut and dry. As I understand it, these fellas aren't off the hook yet anyway.



Seems like you don't know much about it at all, but you're ready to convict them all the same.  Let me guess:  You also think OJ should have been convicted of murdering his wife even though you didn't watch the trial.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: All 7 defendants in Malheur Refuge standoff found not guilty [Re: Enlil]
    #23810492 - 11/07/16 06:07 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
I understand the difference. I didn't watch the trial, but from what I know about it, it seems pretty cut and dry. As I understand it, these fellas aren't off the hook yet anyway.



Seems like you don't know much about it at all, but you're ready to convict them all the same.  Let me guess:  You also think OJ should have been convicted of murdering his wife even though you didn't watch the trial.




I was quite young during the OJ trial. I did watch some of it, by the way. However, I do firmly believe Casey Anthony should have been convicted, and I watched that trial.

When I have time, I will look into this case/trial more, and get back to you on that.


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"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


Edited by Bigbadwooof (11/07/16 06:09 PM)


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InvisibleDoes

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Re: All 7 defendants in Malheur Refuge standoff found not guilty [Re: Does]
    #23810493 - 11/07/16 06:07 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

The fish didnt have to see past the fog to know the shark was trying to stir a meal out of the nest


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: All 7 defendants in Malheur Refuge standoff found not guilty [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23810875 - 11/07/16 07:46 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:I'm not particularly familiar with the details of this case, but as far as I am aware, any time a group of men take over a territory using guns or other means of force, they are generally operating outside of the law.




Oregon hasn't been a territory since 1859.

::Lawyer Face::
:Trollface:


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: All 7 defendants in Malheur Refuge standoff found not guilty [Re: Great Scott]
    #23817134 - 11/09/16 06:20 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:I'm not particularly familiar with the details of this case, but as far as I am aware, any time a group of men take over a territory using guns or other means of force, they are generally operating outside of the law.




Oregon hasn't been a territory since 1859.

::Lawyer Face::
:Trollface:




ter·ri·to·ry
ˈterəˌtôrē/
noun
noun: territory; plural noun: territories; noun: Territory; plural noun: Territories
1.
an area of land under the jurisdiction of a ruler or state.
"the government was prepared to give up the nuclear weapons on its territory"

*Lawyer face* Territory.


Your lawyer face has a real shit eating grin. Is it a defense attorney lawyer face?


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Re: All 7 defendants in Malheur Refuge standoff found not guilty [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23817169 - 11/09/16 06:28 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)



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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: All 7 defendants in Malheur Refuge standoff found not guilty [Re: Great Scott] * 1
    #23817184 - 11/09/16 06:33 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

PeyoteZen said:





I know what you meant. I just figured that if we were paying lawyer face, I ought to provide you with an alternative definition.


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"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
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"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineSkellies


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Re: All 7 defendants in Malheur Refuge standoff found not guilty [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23821705 - 11/11/16 01:16 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

The ruling aside, I've been comparing this case to the dapl protests and I think it reveals the importance of the second amendment. The reason law enforcement didn't remove the occupiers is because they had guns and said that they would fight back. No law enforcement commander wants to be responsible for the next Waco incident. From what I've watched, the dapl protesters don't have any weapons so LE could dismantle their camp without fear of resistance.


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Re: All 7 defendants in Malheur Refuge standoff found not guilty [Re: Skellies] * 1
    #23822205 - 11/11/16 07:41 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

austothehun said:
The ruling aside, I've been comparing this case to the dapl protests and I think it reveals the importance of the second amendment. The reason law enforcement didn't remove the occupiers is because they had guns and said that they would fight back. No law enforcement commander wants to be responsible for the next Waco incident. From what I've watched, the dapl protesters don't have any weapons so LE could dismantle their camp without fear of resistance.




I dunno... Seems like LE could just get a sniper, if the started shooting. Shit, they all have fucking tanks nowadays... What do they have to be afraid of? Saginaw, MI had a fucking tank. Saginaw, MI is boring ass suburbia, where nothing ever happens. Nothing requiring a tank anyway. I don't blame the cops though... I want a fuckin tank too!

Honestly, I hate to drag race into this, but I really do think those guys wouldn't have gotten off had they not been white. I also think the Natives wouldn't be getting so horribly brutalized if they were white folks. The pepper-spray jets, bean bag guns, rubber bullets, and tear gas need to stop. They do this shit to peaceful protestors. The natives are more than protesters though, in this situation...

Another factor that almost certainly plays a role in the ND Pipeline situation is the simple fact that big oil is behind it. In North Dakota, oil is their bread and butter.

I think the most despicable part of the whole thing isn't the oil companies, or the whiny assholes bitching about the natives fucking up their property (ironic, huh?), or President Obama sitting on his fucking ass, when he should have stepped in right away. The most despicable part, to me, is the fact that no matter where a protest is going on in the country, the police are willing to do horrible things to US citizens who are peacefully practicing their right to free speech. In this particular situation, there were a couple police officers who turned in their badges (from what I have heard), so that's nice to hear. That is an admirable display of courage, and they deserve our appreciation. They forfeited a paycheck to preserve their integrity.

Imo... The natives have every right to use whatever means necessary, though violence is never an appealing option.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


Edited by Bigbadwooof (11/11/16 07:52 AM)


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: All 7 defendants in Malheur Refuge standoff found not guilty [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23822369 - 11/11/16 09:17 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

They aren't peaceful :facepalm:

***only in liberal lala land is attacking people considered "peaceful":lol:


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