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Spore Ninja
PsychoMycoPhile


Registered: 10/25/16
Posts: 161
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
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If I want stones- should I get Atlantis, or clone a truffle?
#23782890 - 10/29/16 02:48 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I want to run some batches of sclerotia, but I not seeing any Tampanensis spores easily available, and the Mexicana A is a little spendy. I saw that we have a vendor that has a good price on truffles, and they should be the Mexicana A (IIRC). That would give me 10 G's to bioassay and 5 G's to clone with.
But I wonder if the genetics from the truffles would be as good as the ones from a spore print.
Anyone have any input to offer?
-------------------- I'm interested in Dr. Pollock's work and his (especially older) strains. Anyone have pix of his Shroommobile RV?? PSA: Protonmail offers free, encrypted email hosted in privacy loving Switzerland. Red Phone / Signal offer free encrypted phone calls and texting between users. All of these programs are available free for PC and Android or apple and are available in the respective stores or online by googling the names. Stay safe out there! The Electronic Freedom Foundation's review of text and messaging program's security is here>>> https://www.eff.org/node/82654
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enlightenment
alchemist


Registered: 08/09/09
Posts: 1,647
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 8 months, 21 days
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Re: If I want stones- should I get Atlantis, or clone a truffle? [Re: Spore Ninja]
#23783016 - 10/29/16 03:46 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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It looks like you do not know how to use the search function... 
Whatever! That should help you.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20833312
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Spore Ninja
PsychoMycoPhile


Registered: 10/25/16
Posts: 161
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
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Re: If I want stones- should I get Atlantis, or clone a truffle? [Re: enlightenment]
#23783183 - 10/29/16 04:49 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
enlightenment said: It looks like you do not know how to use the search function... 
Whatever! That should help you.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20833312
The search function here is undoubtedly a very powerful and useful tool, and I've availed myself of it many times so far. I've read over 100 pages on sclerotia, Tampanensis, truffles and agar work, but that thread never showed up. Thank you for the link.  My questions was also more about the quality of the genetics as it was about cultivation. I'm OK on that aspect.
And many of the sclerotia threads seem to be older- not sure if that's due to lack of interest, cultivation issues or if I just haven't found the newer threads yet...
-------------------- I'm interested in Dr. Pollock's work and his (especially older) strains. Anyone have pix of his Shroommobile RV?? PSA: Protonmail offers free, encrypted email hosted in privacy loving Switzerland. Red Phone / Signal offer free encrypted phone calls and texting between users. All of these programs are available free for PC and Android or apple and are available in the respective stores or online by googling the names. Stay safe out there! The Electronic Freedom Foundation's review of text and messaging program's security is here>>> https://www.eff.org/node/82654
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enlightenment
alchemist


Registered: 08/09/09
Posts: 1,647
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 8 months, 21 days
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Re: If I want stones- should I get Atlantis, or clone a truffle? [Re: Spore Ninja]
#23783197 - 10/29/16 04:59 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I am working on a sclerotia producing isolate right now (galindoi). Working with sclerotia on petri dishes takes some time. I open a grow log if i am done with the agar work.
The guy who cloned store bought sclerotia in the thread above had great success with the genetics. So cloning store bought sclerotia safes time and works. Even MS grows can produce nice amounts of sclerotia.
The interest seems to vary alot. Some time there are tons of sclerotia threads and for some reason there are time frames where nobody talks about it.
Take a look in this thread: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23776705
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Spore Ninja
PsychoMycoPhile


Registered: 10/25/16
Posts: 161
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
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Re: If I want stones- should I get Atlantis, or clone a truffle? [Re: enlightenment]
#23784050 - 10/29/16 10:25 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
enlightenment said:
Whatever! That should help you.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20833312
Awesome thread! Thanks for that one. Like one of the high profile posters in that thread said:
Quote:
I am still amazed that growing stones is not more popular, and that there is seemingly fuck all experimentation with them.
I saw where 2 of the early shroom scions mentioned "doorknob" sized stones...so that's what set off my obsession for finding strains that could produce larger stones, and also made me wonder how the current genetics stack up against some of the older versions of the same bloodline. If I can find good genetics, I definitely want to share them. The thread you mentioned had a post about using sterile swabs in a baggie to share spores...I wonder if the FSRE would take those?
Thanks again for the assist- it's genuinely appreciated.
-------------------- I'm interested in Dr. Pollock's work and his (especially older) strains. Anyone have pix of his Shroommobile RV?? PSA: Protonmail offers free, encrypted email hosted in privacy loving Switzerland. Red Phone / Signal offer free encrypted phone calls and texting between users. All of these programs are available free for PC and Android or apple and are available in the respective stores or online by googling the names. Stay safe out there! The Electronic Freedom Foundation's review of text and messaging program's security is here>>> https://www.eff.org/node/82654
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oakley
Stranger

Registered: 10/31/16
Posts: 55
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
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Re: If I want stones- should I get Atlantis, or clone a truffle? [Re: Spore Ninja]
#23787412 - 10/31/16 01:30 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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From reading some old thread I can say from the top of my head that really large sclerotia grow under the casing while trying to fruit. Humidity and fresh air seems to be limiting factors during jar runs. BTW cloning from bought sclerotia should work wonders if you work clean.
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Spore Ninja
PsychoMycoPhile


Registered: 10/25/16
Posts: 161
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
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Re: If I want stones- should I get Atlantis, or clone a truffle? [Re: oakley]
#23788293 - 10/31/16 11:36 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
oakley said: From reading some old thread I can say from the top of my head that really large sclerotia grow under the casing while trying to fruit. Humidity and fresh air seems to be limiting factors during jar runs. BTW cloning from bought sclerotia should work wonders if you work clean.
The first thread that Enlightenment linked was great- except the shrooms died before the project was completed.
I use bags instead of jars, so I want to see what happens if I let the stones form, then cut the top off the bag and case it to produce fruit(mostly for spore prints to share) Does it have a detrimental effect on the stones, or do they increase in size while the fruits are forming on top?
And I still wonder how the current Tampanensis compares to that strain say, 20 or 30 years ago. I'd like to find a copy of Peele's book called the Golden Doorknob. Supposed to be all about sclerotia. Unfortunatly, I've never seen Pollock write about sclerotia- just the fruit bodies.
-------------------- I'm interested in Dr. Pollock's work and his (especially older) strains. Anyone have pix of his Shroommobile RV?? PSA: Protonmail offers free, encrypted email hosted in privacy loving Switzerland. Red Phone / Signal offer free encrypted phone calls and texting between users. All of these programs are available free for PC and Android or apple and are available in the respective stores or online by googling the names. Stay safe out there! The Electronic Freedom Foundation's review of text and messaging program's security is here>>> https://www.eff.org/node/82654
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blackout


Registered: 07/16/00
Posts: 5,266
Last seen: 2 months, 25 days
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Re: If I want stones- should I get Atlantis, or clone a truffle? [Re: Spore Ninja]
#23788520 - 10/31/16 12:53 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Spore Ninja said: That would give me 10 G's to bioassay and 5 G's to clone with.
You will only need a tiny spec of sclerotia to continue growing, no need to use 5 grams. I got a tiny stone from Aero and was able to grow it out, see below


I am currently starting it up again from stones I grew.
Quote:
Spore Ninja said: But I wonder if the genetics from the truffles would be as good as the ones from a spore print.
Quote:
Spore Ninja said: The first thread that Enlightenment linked was great- except the shrooms died before the project was completed.
The spore print will have loads of possibility. The commercial strain is likely a carefully selected isolated strain which may not be suited to producing fruits at all, all they were concerned about was growing stones. When mexicana spores first commonly became available there were 2 types A & B, one more likely to produce stone producers and the others for fruits.
the ATL#7 was also picked due to its sclerotia producing properties.
Quote:
Spore Ninja said: "doorknob" sized stones...so that's what set off my obsession for finding strains that could produce larger stones
There were other ATL "numbers" which were never released, I would have like to get 1 or 2 of them, they had higher yeilds than ATL7# but had smaller stones. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4320913#4320913

Large stones are meant to happen more in large substrates. I would be spawning to bulk to try and get them.
This is the biggest stone I have seen, with a bogus name

Quote:
Spore Ninja said: I'd like to find a copy of Peele's book called the Golden Doorknob. Supposed to be all about sclerotia. Unfortunatly, I've never seen Pollock write about sclerotia- just the fruit bodies.
Someone claimed to have read the golden doorknob book before and said there was nothing really new in it, which is not known these days, I think it can still be bought. Peele had journals available online with the odd mention of sclerotia but nothing really new in the ones I saw. He retired recently enough.
I presume you have seen these adverts before.

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oakley
Stranger

Registered: 10/31/16
Posts: 55
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
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Re: If I want stones- should I get Atlantis, or clone a truffle? [Re: blackout]
#23790370 - 11/01/16 03:11 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Spore Ninja said: I use bags instead of jars, so I want to see what happens if I let the stones form, then cut the top off the bag and case it to produce fruit(mostly for spore prints to share) Does it have a detrimental effect on the stones, or do they increase in size while the fruits are forming on top?
And I still wonder how the current Tampanensis compares to that strain say, 20 or 30 years ago. I'd like to find a copy of Peele's book called the Golden Doorknob. Supposed to be all about sclerotia. Unfortunatly, I've never seen Pollock write about sclerotia- just the fruit bodies.
I remember from old threads that casing with sclerotia produces ample fruits, and stonesun regularly harvested the sclerotia and cased the remaining grain with great results. I remember reading somewhere that any sclerotia you leave in the substrate will grow larger during fruiting.
I've also heard that tampanenesis degenerated greatly over the years since all the spores in the market are coming from just a single specimen. I honestly don't know what people mean by degenerated though. I've read that all sclerotia forming species are actually mexicana though. check this for example
http://www.mushroomjohn.org/Chapter-27-28.pdf
I've also been intrigued by the book, but people talking about it regularly say that it contains nothing new for the present time. growing and fruiting sclerotia forming psilocybe species are well established.
Quote:
blackout said: they had higher yeilds than ATL7# but had smaller stones.
you can try to get a spore print and isolate your own strain with a similar sclerotia phenotype?
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Edmunter
Mr



Registered: 05/01/13
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Re: If I want stones- should I get Atlantis, or clone a truffle? [Re: oakley]
#23790384 - 11/01/16 03:43 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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wtfcrazymofo
foil hater



Registered: 07/26/15
Posts: 1,201
Loc: Colonial alley
Last seen: 9 hours, 47 minutes
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Re: If I want stones- should I get Atlantis, or clone a truffle? [Re: oakley]
#23790415 - 11/01/16 04:20 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Get ATL#7, seems if you clone a truffle you may not get fruits as easy. Either way you might get a fruit from the truffle that you can take a print and start the isolation process over.
-------------------- If you want to eat->https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8553541 Bag sealers are to bulky (my hood isn't that big) https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28622922
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oakley
Stranger

Registered: 10/31/16
Posts: 55
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
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Re: If I want stones- should I get Atlantis, or clone a truffle? [Re: blackout]
#23790433 - 11/01/16 04:40 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
blackout said:


I am currently starting it up again from stones I grew.
What kind of agar is that? I've never seen a green looking agar before.
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enlightenment
alchemist


Registered: 08/09/09
Posts: 1,647
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 8 months, 21 days
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Re: If I want stones- should I get Atlantis, or clone a truffle? [Re: oakley]
#23790463 - 11/01/16 05:25 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Some people around here are using food coloring to dye the agar.
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Spore Ninja
PsychoMycoPhile


Registered: 10/25/16
Posts: 161
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
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Re: If I want stones- should I get Atlantis, or clone a truffle? [Re: blackout]
#23791100 - 11/01/16 11:44 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
blackout said:
Quote:
Spore Ninja said: That would give me 10 G's to bioassay and 5 G's to clone with.
You will only need a tiny spec of sclerotia to continue growing, no need to use 5 grams. I got a tiny stone from Aero and was able to grow it out, see below


I am currently starting it up again from stones I grew.
Quote:
Spore Ninja said: But I wonder if the genetics from the truffles would be as good as the ones from a spore print.
Quote:
Spore Ninja said: The first thread that Enlightenment linked was great- except the shrooms died before the project was completed.
The spore print will have loads of possibility. The commercial strain is likely a carefully selected isolated strain which may not be suited to producing fruits at all, all they were concerned about was growing stones. When mexicana spores first commonly became available there were 2 types A & B, one more likely to produce stone producers and the others for fruits.
the ATL#7 was also picked due to its sclerotia producing properties.
Quote:
Spore Ninja said: "doorknob" sized stones...so that's what set off my obsession for finding strains that could produce larger stones
There were other ATL "numbers" which were never released, I would have like to get 1 or 2 of them, they had higher yeilds than ATL7# but had smaller stones. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4320913#4320913

Large stones are meant to happen more in large substrates. I would be spawning to bulk to try and get them.
This is the biggest stone I have seen, with a bogus name

Quote:
Spore Ninja said: I'd like to find a copy of Peele's book called the Golden Doorknob. Supposed to be all about sclerotia. Unfortunatly, I've never seen Pollock write about sclerotia- just the fruit bodies.
Someone claimed to have read the golden doorknob book before and said there was nothing really new in it, which is not known these days, I think it can still be bought. Peele had journals available online with the odd mention of sclerotia but nothing really new in the ones I saw. He retired recently enough.
I presume you have seen these adverts before.


Great post blackout... mucho thanks. I have old issues of HT, but I don't ever remember seeing those ads. I remember Homestead ads though. Very cool to see them! Yeah, I'm kind of stuck.. I want stones, but I'm also hoping to work my way up to genetics that might have been closer to what Pollock was originally working with. Probably a long shot, but everyone needs to have a dream. My real concern/question is: how watered down are the modern day genetics compared to what they were 30 or 40 years ago.
The interview I saw with the major Dutch truffle growers said they got their spores from a spore bank/ring in Europe in the 90's...so I'm hoping there might be some continuity there, and they've been professional managed. After I clone the truffles, I'll get spores from Sporeworks and compare the results.
Have you ever seen any of Pollock's papers or work online anywhere? Oddly, in his book MMC, he never even mentions sclerotia or Tampanensis at all.
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Spore Ninja
PsychoMycoPhile


Registered: 10/25/16
Posts: 161
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
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Re: If I want stones- should I get Atlantis, or clone a truffle? [Re: oakley]
#23791124 - 11/01/16 11:52 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
oakley said:
Quote:
Spore Ninja said: I use bags instead of jars, so I want to see what happens if I let the stones form, then cut the top off the bag and case it to produce fruit(mostly for spore prints to share) Does it have a detrimental effect on the stones, or do they increase in size while the fruits are forming on top?
And I still wonder how the current Tampanensis compares to that strain say, 20 or 30 years ago. I'd like to find a copy of Peele's book called the Golden Doorknob. Supposed to be all about sclerotia. Unfortunatly, I've never seen Pollock write about sclerotia- just the fruit bodies.
I remember from old threads that casing with sclerotia produces ample fruits, and stonesun regularly harvested the sclerotia and cased the remaining grain with great results. I remember reading somewhere that any sclerotia you leave in the substrate will grow larger during fruiting.
I've also heard that tampanenesis degenerated greatly over the years since all the spores in the market are coming from just a single specimen. I honestly don't know what people mean by degenerated though. I've read that all sclerotia forming species are actually mexicana though. check this for example
http://www.mushroomjohn.org/Chapter-27-28.pdf
I've also been intrigued by the book, but people talking about it regularly say that it contains nothing new for the present time. growing and fruiting sclerotia forming psilocybe species are well established.
Quote:
blackout said: they had higher yeilds than ATL7# but had smaller stones.
you can try to get a spore print and isolate your own strain with a similar sclerotia phenotype?
Thanks for that link, nice find!
I find the entire Tampanensis story intriguing - one, single solitary mushroom, never found again- but it ends up being the mushroom that now supplies all of Europe!
I fear that perhaps the yield, or more importantly- the quality of the trip experience may have deteriorated.
So that's what I'm working on now.
-------------------- I'm interested in Dr. Pollock's work and his (especially older) strains. Anyone have pix of his Shroommobile RV?? PSA: Protonmail offers free, encrypted email hosted in privacy loving Switzerland. Red Phone / Signal offer free encrypted phone calls and texting between users. All of these programs are available free for PC and Android or apple and are available in the respective stores or online by googling the names. Stay safe out there! The Electronic Freedom Foundation's review of text and messaging program's security is here>>> https://www.eff.org/node/82654
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thomasm924
thomasm924

Registered: 11/01/16
Posts: 1
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
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Re: If I want stones- should I get Atlantis, or clone a truffle? [Re: Spore Ninja]
#23791148 - 11/01/16 12:00 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Why not just buy spores from SporeWorks?
-------------------- Always looking for new friends, so send me a PM if we have similar interests!
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oakley
Stranger

Registered: 10/31/16
Posts: 55
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
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Re: If I want stones- should I get Atlantis, or clone a truffle? [Re: Spore Ninja]
#23791225 - 11/01/16 12:39 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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here is another link about all the mexicanae section being the same species.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20727047/ the last post mentions mexicana
about the trip experience, the active compounds are still the same. just as people say a cube is a cube is a cube, I'm pretty sure a mexicana is a mexicana, and you can adjust the trip by changing the amount you consume.
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Spore Ninja
PsychoMycoPhile


Registered: 10/25/16
Posts: 161
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
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Re: If I want stones- should I get Atlantis, or clone a truffle? [Re: wtfcrazymofo]
#23791334 - 11/01/16 01:18 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
wtfcrazymofo said: Get ATL#7, seems if you clone a truffle you may not get fruits as easy. Either way you might get a fruit from the truffle that you can take a print and start the isolation process over.
I sort of see the Atl as the "new and improved" modern version, and Tamp as the classic/old school version.
I figure if they have stones, at some point it has to go back to spores... So I'll grow out the stones, cut the bag down and case it and hope to the gods it gives me some fruits and prints to share.
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Spore Ninja
PsychoMycoPhile


Registered: 10/25/16
Posts: 161
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
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Re: If I want stones- should I get Atlantis, or clone a truffle? [Re: thomasm924]
#23791352 - 11/01/16 01:23 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
thomasm924 said: Why not just buy spores from SporeWorks?
I have more time than cash right now, and I just spent my spore budget for the month.
Plus, this is what worries me... I assume he means all the other commercial strains other than his...
Quote:
From the Sporworks website: Over the years the limited gene pool and successive clonings has degenerated most commercially available strains.
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Spore Ninja
PsychoMycoPhile


Registered: 10/25/16
Posts: 161
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
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Re: If I want stones- should I get Atlantis, or clone a truffle? [Re: oakley]
#23791368 - 11/01/16 01:30 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
oakley said: here is another link about all the mexicanae section being the same species.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20727047/ the last post mentions mexicana
about the trip experience, the active compounds are still the same. just as people say a cube is a cube is a cube, I'm pretty sure a mexicana is a mexicana, and you can adjust the trip by changing the amount you consume.
I don't think that Tampanensis is a cube... and most people say the effects are cleaner and different than cubes.
But for all we know, Tampanensis is a Mexciana variety that got transported to Florida somehow.
Still blows me away how much has come from just that solitary specimen...
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: If I want stones- should I get Atlantis, or clone a truffle? [Re: Spore Ninja]
#23791380 - 11/01/16 01:35 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Recent DNA analysis has shown galindoi and tampanensis to be pretty much Mexicana.
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oakley
Stranger

Registered: 10/31/16
Posts: 55
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
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Re: If I want stones- should I get Atlantis, or clone a truffle? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23791482 - 11/01/16 02:05 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well, both tampanensis and mexicana ITS sequences are in genbank, so anyone can check and see for themselves I reckon..
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