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Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ Registered: 08/28/09 Posts: 82,455 Loc: Onypeirophóros Last seen: 4 years, 1 month |
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you know what i find funny is the conservatives and republicans love to hone in on liberalism as the cause of all their problems and level at the system that "i pay my taxes, i want what's coming to me, what i'm owed! but the liberals took over", instead of railing against the financial institutions that allowed them to be steam-rolled in the first place by way of not being able to compete.
damn liberals fault for the failings of resource management, always...even though they had nothing to do with the construction of such a financial system.
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Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ Registered: 08/28/09 Posts: 82,455 Loc: Onypeirophóros Last seen: 4 years, 1 month |
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Quote: dude, Gallagher was Canadian, shut up, you're not my real dad. plus, Stephan Molyneux is also American, so shame on you guys.
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razzle them dazzle them Registered: 04/10/14 Posts: 4,097 Last seen: 1 year, 1 month |
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Nardwuar is Canadian and he's pretty hella, so you guys do some things right.
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Registered: 10/07/16 Posts: 369 |
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Quote: Seems like you're caught up in the misdirection. It's ok.. You're not alone. The root is the individual and an individual takes on individual characteristics before social groupings and classifications. Therefore, A moron with no wherewithal for how things function who attempts to force their illogical views on others is exactly that... "A moron with no wherewithal for how things function who attempts to force their illogical views on others" Morons come in all sorts of shapes, sizes, colors, political affiliations, liberal slants, conservative slants, male, female, transgender, gay, straight, etc... A person is a moron due to their own actions and beliefs not their affiliations. So, what's really funny is that people focus on affiliations instead of calling individual morons out for what they are.. I guess its a defense mechanism formed from cognitive dissonance so one doesn't discover they may in fact be a moron too. You see everyone likes to believe they're not the dumb idiot with unfounded views.. It's always some other group that they are conveniently not in... What childlike handwaving is that? But I guess that passes as a valid defense in today's society... Says a lot. What I reflected on are the social cycles from one dominant ideology to another.. It's why there are periods of social conservatism and liberalism all throughout history.. One dominant ideology pushes society off the rails and then the other takes over.. rinse and repeat. There's enough morons to go around for both conservatives and liberals. No grouping has a monopoly on that. This video and thread makes that quite clear. P.S - What's also a head scratcher (but not really) is when the people who suffer the most due to a particular policy or those at the top end up being their main supporters/defenders. i.e : With America's middle class heading down the drain, strained social services, strained education system, an increasingly smaller amount of jobs for the poor/middle class, trillion dollar deficits, and 20 trillion dollars worth of national debt... Who in their right mind would support rampant illegal immigrants? LMFAO, only the rich benefit from that shit via lowered median standards, lowered wages via labor arbitrage, and increased demand (price increases).. But then that person who supports millions of illegals pouring in here will lament about the rich fucking them over? Or how people will rage about how hard they have to work to afford a house but will the first joker to fuck over their neighbor if they can participate and profit from flipping homes and speculative bubbles... LOL dumbass, you supported the very mechanism for them to fuck you over.... ![]() Ignorance... The same ignorance that gets one to protest via a viewpoint that is the antithesis of what they claim they stand for. Most of the worlds tragedies occur due to ignorance and morons. Has jack all to due with affiliations and more to do with the individual embodying those traits. There's seemingly another group moving right along else they get caught up in the idiocy.. But yeah.. keep believing and focusing on the side show.. ethnic group 1 vs ethnic group 2 .. conservative vs liberals.. then what? Women vs men... <- this one is going to be a riot to watch.. already is.. Morons be getting fucked, played against each other, and themselves and don't even know.. ![]() "Were going to take the beginning of this song and were gonna do it.. as you say: EASY.... but then were gonna do the finish and were gonna make it ROUGHHHHH" All in all though, its these dynamics and interdynamics which keep the wheels of time turning and burning... Is what it is. ROLLIN .. ROLLIN ON A RIVEERRRR Edited by phio (11/01/16 12:10 AM)
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Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ Registered: 08/28/09 Posts: 82,455 Loc: Onypeirophóros Last seen: 4 years, 1 month |
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Quote: what's funny is your inability to realise that i am talking in a general sense about what people are discussing, and that i could not suss any more out of a conversation then simply explaining how the dichotomy of the left versus the right is a farce -- but that i am stuck fiddling in the paradigm that people have created for themselves, and thus myself. this reminds me of something else, i might clarify here, as well. Quote: but that's an aside, but ties into what your saying a bit, and clarifies how you're dead-wrong about your assumptions about me. Quote: no, i didn't, fuckwit. i am talking within the ascribed language that we can all understand. i am socially liberal, and fiscally conservative, and i am at heart a so this just shows how much you know about me and my views. maybe you should try reading more into them then what is at face value, you'll learn alot more, in general. but yeah, you obviously have never seen me make any post on the issue of how i view the world outside of the ideological lenses of societal demarcation.also,...you're really not gonna make yourself out to be the only non-moron here, are you? because from what you just said, i don't know how you can rationally foment that opinion; you know, since you'd just be partaking in the moronic-ways we've predestined you partake in.
Edited by akira_akuma (11/01/16 12:17 AM)
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Registered: 10/07/16 Posts: 369 |
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Quote: Slowdown, i was speaking in general terms and the dumbass comment was in the context of someone in the middle class who was suffering who didn't see how supporting rampant illegal immigration helps the rich and hurts them or a person who participates in a speculative housing bubble that fucks over generations of their fellow man for a quick buck while the rich collect sidebets In the future though be more clear about what you mean, you notice how i cut right to the meat which has nothing to do w/ whether or not you're a liberal/conservative and more to do with whether or not a person is a moron... If you're not about a sideshow, don't make slanted comments. Call out the moron not a particular affiliation group. ![]() So, calm down akira. Seems were saying somewhat of the same thing in different ways... Some things got lost in translation on both sides. I love you
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Registered: 10/07/16 Posts: 369 |
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Quote: Moronic actions are moronic actions. Were all guilty of them sometimes. I most definitely am. No one is perfect which is what makes for the dynamics that keep this ride going. Continually performing said moronic actions against counter evidence though.. Makes you a moron. You having cleared up what you meant resulted in a different reply ... If I were a moron I would have failed to see the common thread and idiotically continued to oppose you ...
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Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ Registered: 08/28/09 Posts: 82,455 Loc: Onypeirophóros Last seen: 4 years, 1 month |
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i am so calm apparently you must have thought i was having serial thoughts on bad things. but i wasn't, i swear. just supremely unimpressed with the implication that because i am pointing out other's fomenting their hatred for "the other", that i am doing what they do...i am not. i am being wholly ironic when i mention this kind of thing...the fact that it isn't obvious, is even more ironic, so it works for me...it's a sorta comedic release, i get off on it...like Vandango gets off on getting his nose rubbed into anal fissures, intestines and all.
no, if you had read my posts on "working together" and the "point of the two party system [to come to bedrock conclusions we can all agree on, to lessen in-fighting]" and pointing out various inconsistencies and hypocrisies on any/or side; then you'd know that i do not fall into party lines. i fall into one sort of category...and that's liberty and the pursuit of happiness and freedom. the main issue with the problem that we have created is that those premises are not always mutual, and that sometimes people's beliefs can be completely exclusive.
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Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ Registered: 08/28/09 Posts: 82,455 Loc: Onypeirophóros Last seen: 4 years, 1 month |
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Quote: i don't call them morons (morons are just dumb), i call them idiots. here is my definition of what pattern of human behavior you describe: "i WANTED everything to fail, i WANTED to make mistakes and be stupid and end up hurting people and causing chaos, I WANTED TO BE WRONG, THAT MAKES ME RIGHT" -- the definition of an Idiot.
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Registered: 10/07/16 Posts: 369 |
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Quote: See but the issue is, in your comment that I replied to, you railed against the conservatives who blame the liberals instead those who fucked them over. What I did was break that into the moron who can be either conservative or liberal in affiliation who fails to see who is fucking them over and rails against an affiliation. You see the slant vs calling it like it is? You cleared this up in your follow on commentary but initially presented a slanted picture. These slanted pictures are what causes things to be the mess they are as someone will decide to present a slanted picture that opposes your slant and then were off to the races. Call a spade a spade. Society has enough side shows and theatrics. We don't need more especially from intelligent people like yourself. Beyond the side show, we could get into a more intelligent discussion in which I could perform further dissections for you... i.e your declared stance of being fiscal conservative and socially liberal. That sounds like a solid stance. However, social policies cost money.. Example : > Socially : People should be able to eat as they please but then many eating habits are destructive and cause huge healthcare expenditures and the government has huge social expenditures for health.. and old age care.. conflict with being a fiscal conservative > Socially people should be able to abort whenever they please but who foots the bill for it? So only the rich should have access to abortions? No, the government should pay.. conflict with being a fiscal conservative > Socially, people should be allowed to run around fucking like crazy and be reckless in their personal lives with drugs and whatever else they want to do... but who fixes the social issues that result from that? How do you mend the social fabric of society that erodes from such behavior? With $$ to pay people to conduct works that offset the damage. conflict with being a fiscal conservative. You can't maintain that everyone should be able to party socially and forget about the mess that will be left after the party is over. How are you going to convince a group of people to be the cleanup crew vs the partiers? You have to pay people. The conflicts go on and on ... Nothing in this physical world is free. Social liberalism costs money as random venturing into the unknown has risks and costs vs conserving time proven harmonious states. What has played out over the present years is that very truth. Do you deny this or suggest it has been conservative policies in play? There is no free lunch.. Sadly people don't get this.
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Registered: 10/07/16 Posts: 369 |
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Quote: Meh'... i think i get your reference and you get mine
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Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ Registered: 08/28/09 Posts: 82,455 Loc: Onypeirophóros Last seen: 4 years, 1 month |
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Quote: i didn't rail. i pointed out. and who fucked them over? themselves. Quote: and how do you separate the moron from the non-moron? see, no slant, just telling it like it is, is all.Quote: yeah, call it that. but i ain't gonna just stop having fun because people are idiots who take their shit too far. everyone has a slant, my slant is against both idiot liberals and idiot conservatives, because i see certain of those values therein, in myself, and i don't want idiots promulgating themselves under the guise of their ideology as mine own. either the ideology needs refinement, or the people need to be explained comprehension of those ideologies, or they need to be dropped. i'm a proponent for anything that'll not be construed as overbearing or violent (if i can help it. anger issues.) -- there is still no word on whether these ideologies are cut out to be as such. so i'm on the fence...just like anyone else is who doesn't have clear cut ideas; and it's always a matter of when, when the fences go back up; because the ideas do not quell the questions of society. Quote: a fiscal conservative doesn't try and dictate people's life choices. i'm an individualist first and foremost. Quote: again, i don't dictate people's life choices. also having babies, in general, increases the burden on society to pay for things...so what is your point? a foregone babe is less a fiscal burden than a live one, if you want to get down to brass tax. Quote: um, no they shouldn't. there is no social standard in running around fucking crazy and being reckless...that's ammoral bullshit, that has no sense in a healthy society. not only does that conflict with the views that you're pointing out to, but it's also inherently against social freedoms. no one should have to deal with another persons bullshit, if it impinges on their rights. Quote: if you're not expanding beyond your borders, you have to put the effort of human endeavor somewhere...so you put it in cleaning up the party. it's just the party differs whether you're expanding into globalism and international borders, and when you are just working on the nation's hurdles. Quote: except paper currency is paid for via inflation. that's odd. seems free to me. only where does it come from? human endeavor, perhaps? ![]() Quote: it'd be crude to deny that both liberal ideals and conservative ideals cost money. liberal idealism leads me to believe that human endeavor is less cost effective than proxy oil-wars. i think you can understand that from that point of view, i am not being fiscally conservative, but more socially mindful. less oil, more burden, and also more people to feed with freedom. that is, after all, what WW2 was fought for...right? freedom?Quote: idiots is a much more pertinent terminology, i find. but we basically ascribe the same ideal to the what is essentially the same denotation.
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Registered: 10/07/16 Posts: 369 |
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Quote: Get in the habit of pointing out both sides if they are equal (i.e : both conservatives and liberal affiliations have morons) Quote: Interestingly, were all fucking each other over. Were all on the same rock breathing the same air. For Americans, were all in America swimming in the same pool. Brazil's wealthy thought they were getting over and meanwhile have ran the whole country in the ground.. then everyone jump ship to another country and instead of realizing and abandoning norms that caused the previous fuckup they proudly embrace them and carry on the cycles of ruin elsewhere... Were all tied to same social fabric. The jackass at the top is just as much a clown as the jackass at the bottom. Quote: They distinguish themselves ... you just have to have open enough eyes to see it. Well then fire up the music and join the circus... ![]() Quote: This is some solid commentary... I can get behind this ![]() Quote: Listen man .. It's basic math and physics .. Liberal mid-14c., "generous," also "nobly born, noble, free;" from late 14c. as "selfless, magnanimous, admirable;" from early 15c. in a bad sense, "extravagant, unrestrained," from Old French liberal "befitting free people; noble, generous; willing, zealous" (12c.), and directly from Latin liberalis "noble, gracious, munificent, generous," literally "of freedom, pertaining to or befitting a free person," from liber "free, unrestricted, unimpeded; unbridled, unchecked, licentious." What in this universe is 100% free? In a society, people's life choices feed back into the social fabric that everyone is connected to. I mean listen.. I hear what you're saying and I can get behind it but the ideal premise of these words that get thrown around are hogwash... Liberalism costs $$$. Name one physical process in the universe whereby liberalism doesn't consume considerable amounts of energy... You live in a physical world ![]() Quote: Neither do I.. but you see people want to be socially liberal and want to be free to do whatever they want to do but no one wants to face the consequences or be responsible for their actions.. That responsibility and costs most often than not gets dumped on govt. and in practice social liberalism thus costs huge amounts of money and requires huge amounts of resources... There is no free lunch. Maybe if people took a basic physics course they'd be able to understand this concept. Quote: And why is that the case? Because yet again govt. is expected to support people who irresponsibly and liberally go around having kids... You see quite clearly what the point is : In practice social liberalism conflicts with fiscal conservatism. Quote: Because the govt. is expected to uphold the social fabric even when people recklessly conduct liberal 'free from restraint' actions... If you want to get down to the meat of the reality. Quote: ![]() ![]() http://nbc4i.com/2016/10/25/cdc- liberal (adj.) Look up liberal at Dictionary.com mid-14c., "generous," also "nobly born, noble, free;" from late 14c. as "selfless, magnanimous, admirable;" from early 15c. in a bad sense, "extravagant, unrestrained," from Old French liberal "befitting free people; noble, generous; willing, zealous" (12c.), and directly from Latin liberalis "noble, gracious, munificent, generous," literally "of freedom, pertaining to or befitting a free person," from liber "free, unrestricted, unimpeded; unbridled, unchecked, licentious." Quote: You are as free as you want to be. No one has an issue with being liberal and free ... and what you decide to do w/ your personal life. What people have a problem with are the consequences that spill out of your personal life and into the social fabric of society and before you claim that doesn't occur please don't. All laws of the known universe prove otherwise. So, lets cut the bullshit and stop with the misdirection which proposes that people are trying to restrict people's freedoms. They're trying to conserve the harmonious social fabric that keeps a healthy society.. A lot of people have just become so dumb, divided, and self absorbed that they feel their actions don't have any consequences beyond themselves... That's not how this universe works and is completely against harmony. So, you can't have your cake and eat it to .. Quote: Yeah but who cleans up the party? Who decides who gets to party and be liberal and free and who is a part of the clean up crew? You see .. There is no such thing as being 100% FREE in a society .. No, you can't go and party and be a clown ass and expect someone to clean it up (Government) for free.. So, quite clearly.. partying and being liberal costs money.. Big time. Quote: I'm talking about socially liberal policies.... Quote: It's not paid via inflation. The costs are transferred to all paper holders via inflation. You see.. Back to the physics lesson : "energy cannot be created or destroyed only changed in form". There is no free lunch. Quote: It would be crude to assume they have similar costs... But there goes that slant again ... Conservation is not greed. Proxy oil wars are due to greed and are initiated by being too liberal with one's home grown resources and economy. Quote: Mankind has yet to truly discover what the hell freedom really means and what are the consequences of it. But yet again, were back to a word held under liberalism : Freedom. liberal (adj.) Look up liberal at Dictionary.com mid-14c., "generous," also "nobly born, noble, free;" from late 14c. as "selfless, magnanimous, admirable;" from early 15c. in a bad sense, "extravagant, unrestrained," from Old French liberal "befitting free people; noble, generous; willing, zealous" (12c.), and directly from Latin liberalis "noble, gracious, munificent, generous," literally "of freedom, So what in the world does this have to due with conserving? 'Generously' Spreading freedom around the world sounds liberal as hell to me... You see the layers of deep seated confusion that exists? People think spreading 'freedom' around the world is a conservative practice... ![]() Reality is a lot more complicated than ideals ... You have to grow the fuck up and take responsibility as you become an adult. There is no lifelong party .. Which is why after slamming into walls while being young liberal and reckless, people tend to become conservative with age as they have learned what is value and worth conserving and what is not. However, with those major transitions that occur in social cycles, the baby gets thrown out with the bath water. So, the cycle just keeps on going and going. So, fuck it meng.. it is what it is and I'm not even mad about it as I can see why it is that way...
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Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ Registered: 08/28/09 Posts: 82,455 Loc: Onypeirophóros Last seen: 4 years, 1 month |
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Quote: again, you have not seen my posts where i've literally done just that. Quote: people have not distinguished themselves, at all, as having all the answers. Quote: why do you consistently want to rail against liberalism when freedom is the meal ticket to a happy life? you make trade...that's how you avoid the issue of costs. trade. Quote: you can read the first chapter of Republic and gather just the same, no physics course required. but just because you're not socially liberal, doesn't mean you are not prone to taking more than you can put back to restore -- unless you want to reverse your "were all tied to same social fabric" argument. ![]() Quote: no it doesn't. people are expected to provide for their children, we'd be extinct or severely limited otherwise, as a species; regardless of any kind of fiscal conservatism, or otherwise. want do you want to impose a one child law, like China? i don't think people should go around having kids at a "liberal rate" (which you've completely misconstrued the "liberalism" we were talking about original, here; now we're talking in terms of measurement, but whatever), and that's not un-liberal of me to think so, either. you have babies, someone has got to help to support them, if the government doesn't, then someone will -- if you have a surplus of an uncared for population, your rates for healthcare will go up, and the work force will suffer (among other things). any amount of birth rate increases the fiscal burden, that's just a fact. it's also a fact that doing nothing about it in way of government support makes the fact worse by default. not better. period. Quote: no. not because of that. more people equals more resources for human endeavor, but less resources to feed everyone. see the trade off? the government is not just expected to uphold a social fabric, but it's there to also uphold an economic power, which people's trade (and thus people's population) wouldn't be able to support, without financial support. you can blame all of the world problems on overpopulation, and the blame would be going to an accurate source (blame within reason, that is); you could do so, because that is the root of all the problems you're discussing. and also, the people govern themselves; i don't know when Americans forgot the premise, but it's a righteous and true one. the people govern themselves. Quote: you're espousing an extremely narrow bandwidth of what constitutes "personal life spillage", attributing it to only those whom are "liberals". you constantly continue to assert that liberals are defined as such: "born-free", "libertine", ect. that isn't liberalism. what you're doing is an attempt at establishing an etymology of the word "liberal". liberal-ism (as per the definition of the political ideal) is about liberty and freedom...not freeness and liberalness. you're conflating the lot into one another. everyone, as per your own argument ("Were all tied to same social fabric") contributes to their own "spillage". i'm sure you'll be meet in your retort, and we can discuss this further; but let's not just place the blame on liberals, when you clearly know that that's not the case that they are solely responsible. or at least, i think you do. you did say it yourself, "Were all tied to same social fabric".Quote: you cut the bullshit. i mean, who said that "people are trying to restrict people's freedoms?" who is saying anything elsewise that people are trying to conserve the harmonious social fabric? of course they are. but of course the fact is liberals have a part in that process, and conservatives are still, in fact, not the only ones that conserve the social fabric, considering "Were all tied to same social fabric", and you all create our own "personal spillage". unless you want to say that, literally, conservatives create no spillage. which is absurd. they can't not eat. unless there is some secret spell that conservatives have. Edited by akira_akuma (11/01/16 04:06 AM)
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Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ Registered: 08/28/09 Posts: 82,455 Loc: Onypeirophóros Last seen: 4 years, 1 month |
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Quote: the liberals didn't create the party in Iraq...nor the robber barons; ie the liberals don't always make the mess (i really don't want to have to give a history lesson here, so this'll suffice). the people who clean up are the people whom party...the same people as one another in a nation, a nation which either takes responsibility or it doesn't. Quote: both conservatives and liberals party. both create "spillage". i see more conservative sports attendees, and war-mongers...so i presume that, literally, they have alot of "cleaning to do" themselves, according to your internal logic.Quote: and i'm talking about "spillage". Quote: the vernacular is the same. you've made no argument. by "paid via inflation" i mean "the cost to the people is inflation", ie the loss of value in currency is unavoidable so thus inflation is the cost (the invisible cost) that projects the value into the hands of the people, eg, the "cost transferred to all paper holders" is invisible, and non-existent. there goes your "nothing is free" argument. Quote: and i never said "conservatism is greed", i never said it was anything, but i said i was conservative in my views. i never had to say it was greed...i only pointed out that the conservative party (and thus it's constituents) are being as "liberal" (your definition) as every liberal they tend to dislike. same goes in the reverse.Quote: i think we have. under natural law we've always been free. touch me and you may go down. you wanna play, you might fall. simple stuff. no one need to attribute liberalism to the throes of freedom's wane, when it can be attributed to humankind, in general. liberalism helps ease suffering when implemented correctly, as can conservatism. it's why i'm a proponent of both, when it comes down to it. Quote: so far it's been a republican practice with conservative support...and now with Hillary, liberal support...but none of the activities of the parties speaks any volume for the true nature of any of these political activities. the parties all act the same, with the same goals in mind, just different tactics. Quote: over simplification. conservative people tend to (again, i repeat) be more apt to partake in sporting events, for example...but that's just one simple one. they also tend to throw some major "parties" as well. lots of drinking, lots of drugs, alot of recklessness. so what the fuck is your point again?Quote: yeah, and we can agree on that -- but what are you going to do about it? insist things are screwed up? that's human nature, and it's appeal is weakening on a daily basis. gotta step up your game.
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Registered: 10/07/16 Posts: 369 |
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Thank you for your well thought out replies Akira. I read them all and I hear what you're saying. All and all, it was a good exchange.
I think the overall point is clear ... In practice, the ideals of Conservatism and liberalism are a wash... You can note conservatives committing liberal acts and liberals commit conservative acts. No one is one or the other... Rather a conditional mess of the two. That being said, all practices/actions are not equal. I drew attention to the etymology of the word because it is the root and the branches and leaves : Liberalism/conservatism are far from the roots in that they stretch out into the clouds of idealism which have little to do with the practiced form of the concepts. You're right.. All things 'cost'. All actions consume energy and resources. Which gets to more generic points : > Being aware of cause/effect > Being aware of pros/cons > Being aware of the consequences of a particular action that extend beyond oneself > Being able to think critically and understand what you're aware of > Being considerate, understanding, and compassionate of others... None of these have anything to do w/ being liberal/conservative and have more to do with being a harmonious human being. However, once you start breaking off into groups and opposing one another, these concepts get lost. The harmony is broken. However, these divisions result in the system dynamics that keep the cycles and wheels spinning..... So, it is what it is : Human nature? It would appear as though its appeal is ever present. As for 'the game', it gets stepped up on its own with time.... That's a constant
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so this just shows how much you know about me and my views. maybe you should try reading more into them then what is at face value, you'll learn alot more, in general. but yeah, you obviously have never seen me make any post on the issue of how i view the world outside of the ideological lenses of societal demarcation.
see, no slant, just telling it like it is, is all.





