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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Long term srage and desiccant [Re: Edmunter]
    #23784797 - 10/30/16 09:29 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Edmunter said:
Oxygen and heat will quickly degrade psilocin into ineffective compounds. Psilocin is so sensitive to oxygen, that when picking mushrooms, the stems quickly bruise bluish to dark black.



Did you like not read the post above this? Let me break this shit down.

Psilocin oxidation involves the exchange of electrons. In this case hydrogen NOT oxygen.

Psilocin has a melting point of 350°F. Heat DOESN'T break it down. Actually the heat in a dehydrator (140+) helps maintain potency by denaturing enzymes (the reducing agents in this case)

Also show me the proof that 5mg of psilocin per 10g of fruit body is causing the entire fruit body to turn blue/black. Hint: mushrooms contain a quinone, a pigment that turns blue when digested by enzymes. It also has an alternating double and single bond that trap the wavelengths used to determine why they bruise

Honestly getting tired of saying this shit over and over again.


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Invisibleamidogen
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Re: Long term srage and desiccant [Re: Mad Season]
    #23784823 - 10/30/16 09:39 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

.


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Edited by amidogen (04/19/18 12:38 PM)


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OfflineEdmunter
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Re: Long term srage and desiccant [Re: Mad Season]
    #23784930 - 10/30/16 10:23 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I was quoting from  here https://azarius.net/encyclopedia/71/Psilocin_and_psilocybin/

and trying to explain that Psilocin and Psyllocybin are seperate compounds.  One stable and the other not.  Psyllocybin tuns into psilocin inside the body.  The psilocin in mushrooms soon deteriorates to nothing.

You shouldnt get so tired of trying to tie this shit down when my argument is straight from a well known source and I wasnt exactly arguing against you just trying to explain the different compounds.

Id also like to add that under all this evidence it is better to dry your mushrooms asap to keep the most psilocin in them otherwise it will be mainly psylocybin which will turn into psilocin in the liver.


Edited by Edmunter (10/30/16 10:47 AM)


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Invisiblecrackbaby
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Re: Long term srage and desiccant [Re: Edmunter]
    #23784944 - 10/30/16 10:29 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

i think the best way to go for long term storage is to use quart canning jars (rubber side down), with a small desiccant pak and a few oxygen absorbers thrown in


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Long term srage and desiccant [Re: Edmunter]
    #23785132 - 10/30/16 11:36 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Edmunter said:
I was quoting from  here https://azarius.net/encyclopedia/71/Psilocin_and_psilocybin/

and trying to explain that Psilocin and Psyllocybin are seperate compounds.  One stable and the other not.  Psyllocybin tuns into psilocin inside the body.  The psilocin in mushrooms soon deteriorates to nothing.

You shouldnt get so tired of trying to tie this shit down when my argument is straight from a well known source and I wasnt exactly arguing against you just trying to explain the different compounds.

Id also like to add that under all this evidence it is better to dry your mushrooms asap to keep the most psilocin in them otherwise it will be mainly psylocybin which will turn into psilocin in the liver.



Well it is the third time trying to explain it in this 1 thread. Kinda felt like nobody was even reading what I was saying (like fuckin crackbaby saying "oxygen absorbers" literally 1 post above this :facepalm:). Notice it was only thing I quoted lol, everything else I agree with. Still kinda appalled at the little research that went into thst before publishing it. There's literally no oxygen at play here, and they're just assuming psilocin causes the bruising, and the heat crap too.. Terrible article IMO if they can't even do that little bit of research


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OfflineEdmunter
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Re: Long term srage and desiccant [Re: Mad Season]
    #23785154 - 10/30/16 11:43 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Apologies if the source is poor but again I was only trying to explain the separate compounds not argue your point.  Do you have some up to date resources I can read  please.

And again and im sure you will agree, drying your mushrooms till cracker dry asap is the best way to keep potency.

There was a quote from Stamets saying that its hasnt been scientifically proven why mushrooms turn blue..........  That was about a thousand years ago.


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Long term srage and desiccant [Re: Edmunter]
    #23785172 - 10/30/16 11:49 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

It still hasn't been scientifically proven what causes bruising, but the wavelengths caught are the same as a quinone, and it's in mushrooms, they just haven't actually proven quinones are the cause of it. This shit comes from the 60s research. I really can't find the article on the 60s research right now. I'm in a rush, but here's the thread we really hashed out bruising, psilocin/potency, and links and what not to other bruising mushrooms, and how various pigments getting digested by enzymes cause them to bruise.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23667461#23667461


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Edited by Mad Season (10/30/16 11:55 AM)


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Re: Long term srage and desiccant [Re: Mad Season] * 1
    #23785210 - 10/30/16 12:04 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Ok and terrific stuff, I will have a good read.  Its nice to learn your shit about your shit. 

Lemon tek shooter anyone? :raisemyglass:


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Invisiblecrackbaby
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Re: Long term srage and desiccant [Re: Mad Season]
    #23785317 - 10/30/16 12:32 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mad Season said:
Quote:

Edmunter said:
I was quoting from  here https://azarius.net/encyclopedia/71/Psilocin_and_psilocybin/

and trying to explain that Psilocin and Psyllocybin are seperate compounds.  One stable and the other not.  Psyllocybin tuns into psilocin inside the body.  The psilocin in mushrooms soon deteriorates to nothing.

You shouldnt get so tired of trying to tie this shit down when my argument is straight from a well known source and I wasnt exactly arguing against you just trying to explain the different compounds.

Id also like to add that under all this evidence it is better to dry your mushrooms asap to keep the most psilocin in them otherwise it will be mainly psylocybin which will turn into psilocin in the liver.



Well it is the third time trying to explain it in this 1 thread. Kinda felt like nobody was even reading what I was saying (like fuckin crackbaby saying "oxygen absorbers" literally 1 post above this :facepalm:). Notice it was only thing I quoted lol, everything else I agree with. Still kinda appalled at the little research that went into thst before publishing it. There's literally no oxygen at play here, and they're just assuming psilocin causes the bruising, and the heat crap too.. Terrible article IMO if they can't even do that little bit of research




Wait...wut?!  I initially read through the whole thread before deciding to post anything, since there was no mention of using jars with O2 absorbers, which has always worked for me.  Madseason, i don't see what you're talking about as far as repeating yourself.

Btw, i've used both methods of drying (food dehydrator set at 150 degrees, which takes about 5 hours, and regular box fan followed by desiccant chamber, which takes about 3 days) and have tripped balls just as hard on the ones dried slowly


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Long term srage and desiccant [Re: crackbaby]
    #23785342 - 10/30/16 12:38 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Why would you want to absorb O2 when oxygen has nothing to do with anything? If you left psilocin in a chamber of pure oxygen, nothing would happen. This is because its oxidation, which means the exchange of electrons, is done with hydrogen (H+)

I know you can trip balls with fan drying. I did it for years. But fan drying fruits never last longer than a year tops. I got dehydrated fruits from a few years now that blow my shit away. Yes h2o is the culprit because it activates the enzymes which digest the fruit body, and the psilocin using a hydroxyl, and we can all agree the longer things are left wet, the less potent things are.


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Edited by Mad Season (10/30/16 12:52 PM)


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Long term srage and desiccant [Re: crackbaby]
    #23785346 - 10/30/16 12:39 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

you need to dry them for longer than 5hours for LONG TERM storage
which is what the OP was yaking about. shrooms get shitty if not completely dry.

at least the ones i grow need longer than 5hours to dry. :crazy2:


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Long term srage and desiccant [Re: mushboy]
    #23785354 - 10/30/16 12:42 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

:whathesaid: 24 hours cranked all the way up ftw.


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Re: Long term srage and desiccant [Re: mushboy]
    #23785360 - 10/30/16 12:43 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Why are we not mentioning( I am) Psylicybin?


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Long term srage and desiccant [Re: Edmunter]
    #23785378 - 10/30/16 12:47 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Because it's extremely stable, and not needed to be worried about during all this, it has an extremely high melting point, and it takes much more effort to break it down, but still will get broken down if left wet long enough.

For long term storage of psilocin and psilocybin, do the steps noted above. Dry as fast as possible, and put it in an airtight container.


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Re: Long term srage and desiccant [Re: Mad Season]
    #23785395 - 10/30/16 12:52 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mad Season said:
Because it's extremely stable, and not needed to be worried about during all this, it has an extremely high melting point, and it takes much more effort to break it down, but still will get broken down if left wet long enough.

For long term storage of psilocin and psilocybin, do the steps noted above. Dry as fast as possible, and put it in an airtight container.





AMEN


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Invisibler.lutece
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Re: Long term srage and desiccant [Re: Edmunter]
    #23785842 - 10/30/16 03:12 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I have a strange question: has anyone tried canning mushrooms? I know it would serve exactly zero purpose if done with properly dried shrooms, but I'm curious.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Long term srage and desiccant [Re: r.lutece]
    #23785870 - 10/30/16 03:20 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

The actives would migrate to the liquid too. Gross to eat it all plus the juice. Mmmm slime


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Re: Long term srage and desiccant [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23785875 - 10/30/16 03:21 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

mmmmm gritty slime


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Invisiblecrackbaby
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Re: Long term srage and desiccant [Re: mushboy]
    #23786208 - 10/30/16 04:46 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
you need to dry them for longer than 5hours for LONG TERM storage
which is what the OP was yaking about. shrooms get shitty if not completely dry.

at least the ones i grow need longer than 5hours to dry. :crazy2:




Ya that's what i meant...usually 5 hrs to get cracker dry and ready for long term storage...actually just ate some a couple days ago that were stored in jars via this method 10 months ago.  Smaller shrooms usually take less time (3 hrs), and sometimes the really thick monsters will take 6-7 hrs.  Probably depends on the brand of dehydrator you use. 

I dunno about the earlier statements regarding oxidation (you lost me at electrons, enzymes, and hydroxyl etc) .  If you google 'psilocybin mushroom oxidation', pretty much all the articles and threads that come up point towards oxygen having adverse effects.  Aside from this, the oxygen absorbers create a vacuum seal within the jar (you can tell from the raised dimple in the center of the lid being sucked down flat)


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Invisibler.lutece
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Re: Long term srage and desiccant [Re: crackbaby]
    #23786393 - 10/30/16 05:41 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I think the only thing you're really preventing with an oxygen absorber is staleness, like you might find with potato chips. I powder my shrooms before storage anyway, so I've never noticed them tasting stale.

I would also like to point out that in addition to finding plenty of info about oxygen's adverse affects on shroom potency on the web, you can also find plenty of information on how vaccines cause autism or how we never landed on the moon.


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