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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 9 days
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Let's talk bulk...
#23780690 - 10/28/16 05:11 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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What are your favorite recipes and why....what are yor thoughts on why we use bulk and what do you feel it adds and or takes away from a grow?
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Re: Let's talk bulk... [Re: cronicr]
#23780725 - 10/28/16 05:22 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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freespeech
disciple



Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 1,745
Loc: PNW
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Re: Let's talk bulk... [Re: cronicr]
#23780729 - 10/28/16 05:23 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Nothing wrong with the classic standby of coir, verm, and gypsum done up in a bucket. Cheap, easily sourced, ingredients are compact to store, and they store indefinitely.
Poo is too bulky and kind of a pain IMO. Coffee gives me contamination.
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Greg
always learning




Registered: 10/28/15
Posts: 1,536
Loc: an autoclave
Last seen: 3 months, 3 days
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I store my cpoo in the cow pasture next to my house
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enlightenment
alchemist


Registered: 08/09/09
Posts: 1,647
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 8 months, 22 days
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Re: Let's talk bulk... [Re: cronicr]
#23780742 - 10/28/16 05:25 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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If I want to go fast and easy just to test isolates or clones I like to spawn grain to coir/verm in small trays.
With a nice isolate I like to use pasteurized horse manure in my substrate because it gives me some extra yield.
Fruiting from grain only with a casing layer works but gives poor yield and often small fruits IME.
Bulk is good because it provides some extra moisture and if you use straw or poo it provides some beneficial microbes too.
I tried coffee grounds, because some people around here hype it, but it did not give me much more benefits but higher trichoderma rates. That's why I don't use spent coffee grounds anymore.
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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I just built 10 trays with sterilized hpoo...
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keifnnugs
Master fucker
Registered: 11/27/15
Posts: 335
Last seen: 26 days, 12 hours
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Can't go wrong with old faithful coir/verm via damion tek..
I still need to try poo.. But haven't since coir/verm gives great results
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 9 days
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Re: Let's talk bulk... [Re: azur]
#23780752 - 10/28/16 05:28 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
azur said:

We also do not need to limit this to cubes...I know you like your edibles as well
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 9 days
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Re: Let's talk bulk... [Re: cronicr]
#23780760 - 10/28/16 05:31 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Do most of you believe that the purpose of bulk is basically for water?
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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enlightenment
alchemist


Registered: 08/09/09
Posts: 1,647
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 8 months, 22 days
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Re: Let's talk bulk... [Re: azur]
#23780761 - 10/28/16 05:32 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
azur said: I just built 10 trays with sterilized hpoo...

OK. If we talk about edibles I like to use beech sawdust with bran (10%-20%) maybe some gypsum. I don't like wood chips in my bags because they rip them off sometimes.
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freespeech
disciple



Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 1,745
Loc: PNW
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Re: Let's talk bulk... [Re: cronicr]
#23780771 - 10/28/16 05:33 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: Do most of you believe that the purpose of bulk is basically for water?
I don't claim to know, but it would seem like there is more to it than just moisture. We all know that fruiting from grain just doesn't work that well in comparison.
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Boogieman47
Let's boogie


Registered: 03/05/16
Posts: 9,712
Loc: Under your bed
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Re: Let's talk bulk... [Re: cronicr]
#23780775 - 10/28/16 05:34 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Personally i like professor pinheads bulk recipe coir/poo ... and between doing cakes and bulk i think its a shit ton less work just on prep alone ..
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 9 days
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Quote:
azur said: I just built 10 trays with sterilized hpoo...
In bags or open air style?
Quote:
freespeech said:
Quote:
cronicr said: Do most of you believe that the purpose of bulk is basically for water?
I don't claim to know, but it would seem like there is more to it than just moisture. We all know that fruiting from grain just doesn't work that well in comparison.
Some might not agree when we talk about B.E...Quote:
enlightenment said:
Quote:
azur said: I just built 10 trays with sterilized hpoo...

OK. If we talk about edibles I like to use beech sawdust with bran (10%-20%) maybe some gypsum. I don't like wood chips in my bags because they rip them off sometimes.
When you add bran what diff do you see? Think it's something that could help the likes of things like actives?
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Re: Let's talk bulk... [Re: cronicr]
#23780792 - 10/28/16 05:40 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: Do most of you believe that the purpose of bulk is basically for water?
When using coir, yes
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enlightenment
alchemist


Registered: 08/09/09
Posts: 1,647
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 8 months, 22 days
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Re: Let's talk bulk... [Re: cronicr]
#23780799 - 10/28/16 05:42 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Water is important. Look at PF cakes. They are a nice mix between water and nutritions. Too much nutritions without water (grain only) produce poor yield because of lack of moisture. Too much moisture without nutritions (1:10 grain/coir) produce poor yield because of lack of nutritions. The balance is what counts.
Edibles and bran: Using bran increases my yields about 50% sometimes. I think it is because bran provides some extra nutritions. A higher grain spawn rate could make the bran unnecessary. I should try this. Bran is very fine like particles, almost like sawdust. I think it is beneficial like BRF in PF tek. It provides the right nutrition/moisture contend.
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PFFFT


Registered: 08/31/09
Posts: 621
Loc: Velvet Underground
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 9 days
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Re: Let's talk bulk... [Re: PFFFT]
#23780932 - 10/28/16 06:39 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yes this is the point I'm getting at...we add bran to bulk for nutrition because it increases yield but our ratios of grain to bulk are much different frome cubes to edibles..bran is much cheaper then grains but even with cubes I see an increase using things like bran coffee and gypsum.
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Let's talk bulk... [Re: cronicr]
#23780963 - 10/28/16 06:53 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I don't discount that it provides lattice and architecture for mycelium. cased grain does well too if you can maintain adequate moisture
Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
The reason deeper substrates support larger flushes and fruits is because larger substrates hold more moisture. If you give proper moisture control to small substrates, they will perform well too. It's all about water, as can be seen by the picture below of very large mushrooms on a very small substrate. It's all about misting and fresh air, from initiation through harvest. RR
I think what RR failed to mention there is that it's about water getting to make that grain spawn reach potential.
there's no magic substrate that's making growers get more dry mushroom weight per 2/3 full"myco" quart of grain spawn.
bulk substrate IMO supplies water and helps with being a pinning platform.
Coir has nutrition for cubes anyway. and think about a straw substrate. that's even more nutritional than poo but you don't get subsequent flushes with straw or some magic substrate yield boost, it's harder to re-hydrate after flush one and it dumps all of its water into the first flush.
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wtfcrazymofo
foil hater



Registered: 07/26/15
Posts: 1,201
Loc: Colonial alley
Last seen: 14 hours, 53 minutes
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Re: Let's talk bulk... [Re: cronicr]
#23780975 - 10/28/16 06:58 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Bottles stuffed in a mono. LI.
There is violet talk about nute rich cased grain bottom watered subs, but I think bulk is better with more different ingredents together like shredded straw oats coated in brown rice flower bran paste in a deep fully colonized bottom watered pp5 quart.
-------------------- If you want to eat->https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8553541 Bag sealers are to bulky (my hood isn't that big) https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28622922
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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are there any "amazing nute rich cased grain bottom watered subs " pictures?
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wtfcrazymofo
foil hater



Registered: 07/26/15
Posts: 1,201
Loc: Colonial alley
Last seen: 14 hours, 53 minutes
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Not amazing. I think the limit is the container. Not enough pin square footage.
-------------------- If you want to eat->https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8553541 Bag sealers are to bulky (my hood isn't that big) https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28622922
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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bulk substrate bottles ala muda or pasty style populating a mono gets more weight than traditional mono prep.
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Timmy Meow



Registered: 04/05/15
Posts: 546
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Recently got stock of gypsum with 5% kelp in it
My current bulk sub consists of: 500g coir 500g vermiculite 200g chicken manure (store bought, very diluted with other organic matter) 100g gypsum (5% kelp) 4.6l water
This is all I can share for now ...
This just looks like an interesting thread to be paying attention to
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freespeech
disciple



Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 1,745
Loc: PNW
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Re: Let's talk bulk... [Re: cronicr]
#23781549 - 10/28/16 11:21 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said:
Quote:
freespeech said: I don't claim to know, but it would seem like there is more to it than just moisture. We all know that fruiting from grain just doesn't work that well in comparison.
Some might not agree when we talk about B.E...
Sure, but most of us aren't competing to produce the most biologically efficient grow. I think most folks are looking to hit a great balance of time and money invested for quality and quantity of output. It's too expensive and painful to do a big grow on grain compared to using something like coir (cheap) or manure (cheap or free) to bulk out your grow.
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Kryptos
Stranger

Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,263
Last seen: 1 day, 4 hours
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: I don't discount that it provides lattice and architecture for mycelium. cased grain does well too if you can maintain adequate moisture
Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
The reason deeper substrates support larger flushes and fruits is because larger substrates hold more moisture. If you give proper moisture control to small substrates, they will perform well too. It's all about water, as can be seen by the picture below of very large mushrooms on a very small substrate. It's all about misting and fresh air, from initiation through harvest. RR
I think what RR failed to mention there is that it's about water getting to make that grain spawn reach potential.
there's no magic substrate that's making growers get more dry mushroom weight per 2/3 full"myco" quart of grain spawn.
bulk substrate IMO supplies water and helps with being a pinning platform.
Coir has nutrition for cubes anyway. and think about a straw substrate. that's even more nutritional than poo but you don't get subsequent flushes with straw or some magic substrate yield boost, it's harder to re-hydrate after flush one and it dumps all of its water into the first flush.
Architecture and water. Very noticeable with oysters-grain heavy bulks tend to produce lots of little dwarf-shrooms, whereas low spawn ratios in my experience produce a few mongo shrooms (Had a pearl oyster as big as my forearm once, cap was the size of a dinner plate from a half jar spawn/leftover bulk sub mix. Only one that ever grew from that particular bulk too).
I do think that using a wide mix of ingredients in the bulk sub would be more beneficial, much like a varied diet is with few exceptions a good idea for humans. I have no actual experimental data to back this up however, and I'm fairly certain that this forum has figured out "soylent"-like exploits in shroom nutrition by now. Varied bulk would be interesting to see how pinning changes.
Either way, I'm fairly certain that most of the nutrition comes from the grain spawn and the bulk sub does very little in that department.
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tump
ban the undead



Registered: 03/17/16
Posts: 2,383
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: Let's talk bulk... [Re: Kryptos]
#23781725 - 10/29/16 02:01 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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For most edibles wood is king. For cubes i use pure coir when im being lazy. When not lazy 60% straw -40 coir mixed after the straw ground up into paste . spawn 1to 5 ratio gets 220 BE after three flushes. With oyster i use to add horse bran to the wood with the prettiest colorful big clusters. But no one buys a three lb clusters.
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wtfcrazymofo
foil hater



Registered: 07/26/15
Posts: 1,201
Loc: Colonial alley
Last seen: 14 hours, 53 minutes
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Re: Let's talk bulk... [Re: tump]
#23781765 - 10/29/16 03:18 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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You just got to sell to restarunts or break up those bulk oyster clusters tump.
-------------------- If you want to eat->https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8553541 Bag sealers are to bulky (my hood isn't that big) https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28622922
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up


Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Re: Let's talk bulk... [Re: tump]
#23838885 - 11/16/16 01:51 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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where on the horse do you find the bran if I may ask tump?
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Marty Mycfly
Time Traveler


Registered: 12/16/13
Posts: 976
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Lol, he probably means bran from the feed store, that's where I get it too. I will add that with edibles, sawdust and bran gives out more BE and besides the better flushes and weight, the fruits are plumper, better tasting and have a longer shelf life which are both a major plus especially for oyster varieties.
The standard recipe of hardwood sawdust and 20% wheat bran is a classic and works great with almost any edible.
Edited by Marty Mycfly (11/16/16 02:23 PM)
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 9 days
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I know stones in has inoculated pure bulk with lc and had pretty good results
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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