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Invisibletyrannicalrex
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PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE
    #23776584 - 10/27/16 12:27 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Are some of you psych students? Are some of you psychoanalysts or psychologists? I want to see an analysis on members here that people think are interesting or off their rockers! (a general analysis would be good too)

Please submit an analysis of the member of choice. Please be at least a student of psychology in the final year or practicing/working in psychology. I have always been interested in psychology. I was wondering about an analysis on people without ever seeing them in person.

Can one ascertain a fairly accurate profile just from posts here? Maybe some people write things that they would never say or do in real life, and that is what interests me about the analysis. You can start with me if you like.:nursemaryjane:


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InvisibleJean-guy Masta
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Re: PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE [Re: tyrannicalrex] * 2
    #23776751 - 10/27/16 01:23 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

psychoanalisism is fuckin bullshit.

i saw a psychiatrist last week. she only told me that weed was 36x times stronger then before so if i was smoking 5 joints per day it was the equivalent of 180 joints and that makes it toxic levels. and that im lucky to not be skizo. that im just anxious and have panic attack and need SSRI.

cant imagine if i told her about meth and acid and DMT and RCs.

psychiatrist will you tell you you are ADHD or OCD or Bipolar or whatever. but thats bullshit

you just are who you are period.


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
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Re: PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE [Re: Jean-guy Masta] * 1
    #23776820 - 10/27/16 01:45 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I get what you say, but there is some validity to it.


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #23776935 - 10/27/16 02:25 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Psychoanalysis is a real science. Just because most psychiatrists and psychologists are idiots doesn't mean it's not a legitimate way to understand people.


IME yes most of them are idiots. But there are a handful of genuine professionals that will make you spit milk from your nose with the ways they read you.


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          :dancingbear: Free time is the only time :dancingbear:                    :thatsinteresting:


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OfflineHippocampus
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Re: PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE [Re: CookieCrumbs] * 1
    #23777017 - 10/27/16 02:49 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Psychoanalysis is the type of therapy first developed by Freud.  It's the one where you sit on a couch where the patient can't see the doctor and they talk about their childhood.  It is still relevant and certainly useful, especially in a therapudic approach involving integration of other evidence based treatments in addition to psychoanalysis. 

But I think what you meant by psychoanalysis was just general theorizing about people based on psychology?

I'm interested in psychology.  I have, and am currently studying it in college.  But I don't have enough credits for a psych bachelor's degree. 

I keep tabs on shroomery members who have self identified as having certain mental disorders.  This is just out of personal interest.  I think it will make me a better clinician someday because I have a great deal of info from here about how people with certain mental disorders think, what drugs they take, and how that's affected them.  It really doesn't take much.  I think a lot of doctors are out of touch with drug culture, and all the circumstances in general surrounding a person with a mental disorder.  It all certainly affects the course of their diseases. 

Currently I am taking an abnormal psychology class.  Which is basically all of the mental disorders in the DSM 5.  There are many people suffering from mental disorders of all sorts everywhere.

I don't want to call out any of the severely afflicted folks around here.  They have enough problems without assholes on the internet calling attention to their troubles.  They are for the most part just regular people who suffer from mental disorders. 

The labels of mental disorders exist in order to categorize and try to HELP these people.  That's the difficult part.  And for some cases it's nearly impossible to help them.  It's like a mystery you have to try to solve.  Except the mystery might have multiple solutions, or no solution at all!  It's hard enough to figure out someone's issues in person in an intimate setting.  Trying to do that over the internet just adds a huge layer of disconnection.  This is why it's considered unethical for licensed clinicians to diagnose or try to treat people who are not their patients.

I know of a couple psychologists on here.  And I have never seen them really weigh in on anything psychology related except very general things.  I assume they have all the real life cases and students they can handle, and trying to do it on shroomery would be just a huge waste of time for them. 

Sorry for the long post.  It's not really pub friendly.  :heart:


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InvisibleJean-guy Masta
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Re: PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #23777071 - 10/27/16 03:02 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

its maybe a science but its still a stupid and useless science, labeling people like that. i just dont see any benificial aspect to it

they will tell you your broken, your not normal , and then to repair you they will destroy you.

in primal tribes when someone is skizo. they are guided by other skizo/shaman. and become shamans. they are not broken useless on the contrary they are told they have a gift and feel like they have somekind of purpose

the rate of suicide because of mental illness in our culture is insane. and that is mainly because of psychoanalysis and social standard


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OfflineLucisM
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Re: PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE [Re: Jean-guy Masta]
    #23777124 - 10/27/16 03:15 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Jean-guy Masta said:
psychoanalisism is fuckin bullshit.

i saw a psychiatrist last week. she only told me that weed was 36x times stronger then before so if i was smoking 5 joints per day it was the equivalent of 180 joints and that makes it toxic levels. and that im lucky to not be skizo. that im just anxious and have panic attack and need SSRI.

cant imagine if i told her about meth and acid and DMT and RCs.

psychiatrist will you tell you you are ADHD or OCD or Bipolar or whatever. but thats bullshit

you just are who you are period.





Not all psychiatrists are the same, just like not all drug users are the same.

Some psychiatrists are quick to prescribe drugs because they actually make money by prescribing certain substances, so this is why you should not take one psychiatrists opinion about yourself as the gospel truth.  They might be looking for a the smallest "negative" thing about yourself to focus on, so they have that eureka moment and think to themselves they just found the thing they can justifiably use to prescribe you a drug, and make money.

There is value in psychology/psychiatry.

If you see someone who is autistic you will hear about how they see what they're supposed to be doing, but they just can't do it, you're telling me that child is making that up?  As his peers steam past him with good grades, and doing well in life, the pressure build on the child to perform, and if not dealt with properly, often leads to negative patterns in their life such as drug abuse, or other criminal behavior, or all around failure in life. 

So should we just just be animals, pound our chests and say fuck it, there's no merit in science being able to fix this child, your psychology/psychiatry is bullshit voodoo?

Or perhaps your experience was negative.  Always seek numerous opinions on any psychiatric matter.


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE [Re: Hippocampus]
    #23777143 - 10/27/16 03:19 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

The science and the practice are 2 very different things. I agree with the science, I don't agree with the practice in the modern world. But the same could be said for healthcare in general. There is so much emphasis on "curing" and "treating" people when in reality people can often fix themselves with a little compassion and guidance.

Quote:

Hippocampus said:

But I think what you meant by psychoanalysis was just general theorizing about people based on psychology?





Yes. Sorry I didn't realize the word specifically refereed to that one method.


I have always been extremely emphatic and observant. My psychoanalyzing of people really just started as an effort to understand others and myself. I have distanced myself from that in recent years because it can be really taxing to observe and be incapable of helping most of the time (even with myself.)

I also studied sociology a bit in college and it too is something I've always observed because it was a box I never fit in. I've always had this crushing feeling of "I don't belong here." So I totally get where you're coming from Jean-Guy.

What bothers me the most is how almost no one can see how badly social constructs manipulate them. How they can't even see what are social constructs. How they go on to develop mental and emotional issues by also trying to fit themselves into this box that was realistically made for only certain kinds of people. Drives me nuts.
Modern psychiatry too is manipulated by social constructs. Healthcare too. There are professionals out there that understand this though and go against the grain.


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          :dancingbear: Free time is the only time :dancingbear:                    :thatsinteresting:


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OfflineHippocampus
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Re: PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #23777765 - 10/27/16 06:20 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I haven't taken a sociology class yet.  It'll be interesting to integrate that into my psychology education when I get there. 

I get what you're saying about not being able to help people you have psychoanalyzed.  Many people are their own worst enemies, and they don't want to follow treatments, or take any advice from anyone else.  But they also don't help themselves.  They just continue to suffer with their mental disorders for years and years. 

But I think you're selling psyche and health care a little short.  I always try to be skeptical and practice critical thinking.  Personal anecdotes about psychology being useless are themselves useless.  Especially coming from a bunch of people (shroomery members) with substance use issues who act like they couldn't possibly take a medication except as a last resort, but will regularly take dangerous levels of other psychotropic drugs for fun. 

Anyway,  The success rates for treating mental illness is actually pretty high. 

According to the National Advisory Mental Health Council, the treatment success rate for bipolar disorder is a remarkable 80 percent.  The recovery rates for other serious mental illnesses follow suit: major depression (65‐80 percent), schizophrenia (60 percent) and addiction (70 percent).

It gives me hope just reading that.  Personally, I feel like the system is failing someone very close to me.  Don't get me wrong.  There is certainly room for vast improvements in care social constructs as you put it.  I am keenly aware of the imperfections in the system.  But it's not reason to throw it all away.  What would be your replacement solution? 

Personally, I feel I could do a lot better than many psychiatrists and psychologists.  Just seeing how many of them work.  For one, many psychologists are whacked out themselves.  And psychiatrists tend to be busy as hell.  So they don't spend enough time with patients to really provide a lot of help in some cases.  Some people are just really tough mental cases and no matter how much time professionals spend with them it's not going to fix anything


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #23777794 - 10/27/16 06:25 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

CookieCrumbs said:
IME yes most of them are idiots. But there are a handful of genuine professionals that will make you spit milk from your nose with the ways they read you.



Absolutely. I really lucked out with mine, she happened to be the closest one to me and was the first one I tried and she's been worth her weight in gold considering how much she's helped me come to understand myself for who I really am at a time of absolute dissolution of almost every aspect of myself.

But I also know from anecdotal stories from loved ones just how bad some of them can be. It strikes me that a lot of the ones that are worth their weight in horseshit, rather than gold, got into the profession in order to help themselves, not to help others.


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Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE [Re: Hippocampus]
    #23777960 - 10/27/16 07:18 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Nah man I didn't say it is useless and that we should do away with it. I think we have things set up for mental healthcare in the best way we ever have. But it definitely needs some tweaks and some things ironed out.

I went through public healthcare (medicaid) to get mental health treatment a while back and I knew that it was going to be far from top notch shit. The first therapist I had pissed me all off. I felt like he was projecting shit on me. The second therapist didn't do much more other than talk to me like we were friends. Which was okay. It was enough for me at the time and I used it for what it was worth and I tried to get the most out of it and it helped me through one of the worst times in my life. I think the effort should be on the individual. It's misguidance on the most fragile among us that is the glaring problem here.



The psychiatrist is the main reason I stopped going though. I was trying to get off my meds and she kept fucking upping the dosage. That is a problem I see in all doctors, from any neck of the woods and in any profession: not listening to the patient and doing whatever the fuck they want. But I think this is a result of social constructs. There is a hierarchy and people in professions like these are dominant over others. It just is what it is. And it helps to create a mentality of superiority which then creates other problems. And all of society actively feeds that. You can't ask anyone for advice anymore without them saying "Go to a doctor" or "have you considered therapy?"

We are much less of a community are more of... what's the word... a very job oriented society I guess. Like community things are out. We have people that are paid to do that. And we should use the people that are paid. If that makes sense?


I'm very manic right now. Go figure.


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          :dancingbear: Free time is the only time :dancingbear:                    :thatsinteresting:


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
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Re: PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #23778007 - 10/27/16 07:32 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

tyrannicalrex said:
Are some of you psych students? Are some of you psychoanalysts or psychologists? I want to see an analysis on members here that people think are interesting or off their rockers! (a general analysis would be good too)

Please submit an analysis of the member of choice. Please be at least a student of psychology in the final year or practicing/working in psychology. I have always been interested in psychology. I was wondering about an analysis on people without ever seeing them in person.

Can one ascertain a fairly accurate profile just from posts here? Maybe some people write things that they would never say or do in real life, and that is what interests me about the analysis. You can start with me if you like.:nursemaryjane:




Psycho-analysis doesnt work on us schizophrenics. Just sayin


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


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OfflineLucisM
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Re: PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #23778245 - 10/27/16 08:23 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

tyrannicalrex said:
Maybe some people write things that they would never say or do in real life, and that is what interests me about the analysis.





Everything I post about which is related to psychology/psychiatry on the boards, comes from my own experiences in life, or from observing others, and is truth from my heart, how I live in the real world.  I am blunt, and see no gain in making posts that are fictional regarding such matters.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE [Re: Lucis]
    #23778285 - 10/27/16 08:32 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I'm not a psych student or expert or anything, and I haven't studied any one member in particular to make any sort of assessment. But holy fuck, Kanye West is super bipolar. Some people it's just too painfully obvious.


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE [Re: Lucis]
    #23778324 - 10/27/16 08:43 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Fennario said:
Everything I post about which is related to psychology/psychiatry on the boards, comes from my own experiences in life, or from observing others, and is truth from my heart, how I live in the real world.  I am blunt, and see no gain in making posts that are fictional regarding such matters.



Can you give it a rest with thinking exactly the way I think for a little while you motherfucker you?!?! As if that wasn't enough it's starting to become apparent that you've spent a lot of your life doing exactly the the kind of things and drugs I do. It's beginning to disturb me.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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OfflineLucisM
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Re: PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23778502 - 10/27/16 09:28 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:

Fennario said:
Everything I post about which is related to psychology/psychiatry on the boards, comes from my own experiences in life, or from observing others, and is truth from my heart, how I live in the real world.  I am blunt, and see no gain in making posts that are fictional regarding such matters.



Can you give it a rest with thinking exactly the way I think for a little while you motherfucker you?!?! As if that wasn't enough it's starting to become apparent that you've spent a lot of your life doing exactly the the kind of things and drugs I do. It's beginning to disturb me.




I think the same thing about you, seriously, it's actually kind of scary, like you're my brother from another mother.:lol:


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
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Re: PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE [Re: Crystal G]
    #23778655 - 10/27/16 10:27 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
I'm not a psych student or expert or anything, and I haven't studied any one member in particular to make any sort of assessment. But holy fuck, Kanye West is super bipolar. Some people it's just too painfully obvious.





Lol how did kanye get himself involved with this


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE [Re: Hippocampus] * 3
    #23779027 - 10/28/16 01:52 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

My main problem with the entire profession is the extreme push of pharmaceuticals to treat pretty much anything.
They just want to pump you full of meds and get their kickback or whatever. The fact that the pharmaceutical industry is so closely tied to the mental health industry is, pretty much evil.
I realize some of the medications do help some people and there is value in some things.
But on the whole....the shit is WAY over-prescribed.. it's their solution to everything. Drugs usually just mask the symptoms and in many cases make the problem worse.
In lots of cases, the symptoms of the drugs you are taking are WORSE than what you are treating.
The pills to treat depression cause impotence, inability to achieve orgasm, a zombie-like state of being, irregular heart rhythm and suicidal thoughts.. brilliant!
 
I went through many years of therapy/psychiatrist/psychologists as a kid.. they diagnosed me with severe depression, schizoaffective, bipolar.. they were changing it up every couple months and put me on pretty much every drug out there. They didn't know what the fuck they were doing. Maybe I was just a damn kid going through a hard time after a rough childhood.
It didn't really matter how I felt or what it did to me... they just wanted to use me as a guinea pig. There's much more to the stories but I'll end there.
My experiences with psychiatrist/psychologists and shit scarred me. My mom thought she was helping but it fucked me up more I think.
I stopped all that shit... got off all the pharmaceuticals and shit... and cured my depression myself. LSD may have been involved.

Now like 20 some years later, I'm in a much better place in life, but think I might have some symptoms of BPD or some variant thereof, it's the only thing that makes much sense, I meet many of the categories I think.
Apparently that really can't be treated with drugs at all. But I'm so jaded against the mental health industry as a whole, that I'm pretty hesitant to even seek treatment. 
Dialectical behavior therapy is interesting and been reading about it. I like doing things myself. Hard to trust people with your intimate details.

I think the industry is in an extremely primitive state still.. they really don't know what the fuck they are doing more than half the time in my experience. We don't fully understand the brain yet, or even halfway understand it. So why do we assume that everything can be treated with pills? Right, because the pharmaceutical giants push it on them, it's a massive, massive, fucking massive for-profit industry. They don't profit off curing people, they do profit off treating them forever and prescribing a billion pills to take a year and perpetually just treating the symptoms. So where's the incentive for progress? Just one jaded perspective of it.


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InvisibleApollyphelion
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Re: PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #23779226 - 10/28/16 05:04 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Like any profession,
there are bad eggs
however it is an extremely important field of medicine.

I think the most powerful thing about therapy
or what ever you wanna call it
is when the therapist gets YOU to realize what you want
They shouldn't be telling you anything
but asking you questions so you can calibrate yourself by yourself.
Your mind is a garden and a therapist can be a really useful
gardening tool.

I got therapy in a week
and I'm not going to figure anything major out
I'm primarily going for legal issues
and just to spill my guts because its super healthy.


--------------------

"I'm looking at you looking at it"

SUBSCRIBE TO MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL PLEASE! www.youtube.com/apollyphelion



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Invisibletyrannicalrex
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Re: PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #23779730 - 10/28/16 10:47 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I had a really eclectic childhood (some would say dysfunctional, I like eclectic, LOL). I went to a therapist (last class for students) and it seemed to help with what I was going through mentally. I have never been diagnosed or medicated with anything, and I have never had anyone tell me I was really messed up mentally. The person that I saw told me that I was pretty well adjusted considering the things I told her. I feel like I could go for some more, but I really don't think I NEED to. Great responses to my thread all, thanks!

I do think therapy can improve and the use of all the meds to treat anything is crazy. If my mom had taken me to a psych when I was little, I may have been on many meds, IDK. I am not "crazy" but I have done some crazy things that would make someone wonder about my sanity/state of mind. (there are secrets I'll take to the grave, LOL)

"I think the most powerful thing about therapy
or what ever you wanna call it
is when the therapist gets YOU to realize what you want
They shouldn't be telling you anything
but asking you questions so you can calibrate yourself by yourself.
Your mind is a garden and a therapist can be a really useful
gardening tool."

Well put/said. I agree here.

I was just trying to see if some of you are students and/or practicing psych and would give me some free analysis, LOL! (that shit is expensive)

Highly interesting subject as well.:nursemaryjane:


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OfflineLucisM
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Re: PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #23779868 - 10/28/16 12:01 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Apollyphelion said:

They shouldn't be telling you anything
but asking you questions so you can calibrate yourself by yourself.






Word.

My therapist has hardly said a thing the times I have seen her, and I like that, need to get back to seeing her again, but at $85 for 45 mins I can't go as often as I would like.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE [Re: Jean-guy Masta]
    #23779919 - 10/28/16 12:19 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Jean-guy Masta said:
its maybe a science but its still a stupid and useless science, labeling people like that. i just dont see any benificial aspect to it

they will tell you your broken, your not normal , and then to repair you they will destroy you.

in primal tribes when someone is skizo. they are guided by other skizo/shaman. and become shamans. they are not broken useless on the contrary they are told they have a gift and feel like they have somekind of purpose

the rate of suicide because of mental illness in our culture is insane. and that is mainly because of psychoanalysis and social standard




no, it's not mainly because of psychoanalysts...social standard sure, everyone plays mindgames, they take what's there, and they don't put it back, making everyone scatter like rats in a maze. you should feel lucky to have someone who can help you. the suicide rate is only going up because people can't hardly contain their madness.

there is a route for shamanism opening up within the medical community, and has been on the scene since the early 50s....


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #23779966 - 10/28/16 12:41 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Jean-guy Masta said:
the rate of suicide because of mental illness in our culture is insane. and that is mainly because of psychoanalysis



That's the most backwards thing I've heard anyone say for a long time. The way we are living (social standard) is all too clearly the root cause of the skyrocketing rate of mental health issues. As a friend once said to me:

'Mindfulness is the antidote to our culture.'

Psychoanalysis is a path to mindfulness, as much as meditation or any other path of self exploration. I've tried as many as I can find, and psychoanalysis in therapy has been one of the most useful tools for dealing with the hardships of my existence I have ever found.


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Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
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Re: PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23780862 - 10/28/16 06:12 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Up to 90% of people who complete suicide have a mental disorder.

And from what I've said earlier, the success rates of treatment of mental disorders are better than many around here might imagine.   

So actually, mental health clinician's are saving people from suicide.


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Re: PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #23781421 - 10/28/16 10:03 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Bill_Oreilly said:

Psycho-analysis doesnt work on us schizophrenics. Just sayin




Yes it does. Carl Jung healed himself by following it all the way through.


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Re: PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE [Re: Middleman] * 3
    #23781542 - 10/28/16 11:17 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Middleman is a delusional psychopath.

JSB is suffering from tiny penis syndrome.

Akira: nothing wrong.  Clean bill of health.

CrystaG:  Parents were too emotionally cold.


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Re: PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE [Re: Hippocampus]
    #23781551 - 10/28/16 11:22 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Hippocampus said:
Up to 90% of people who complete suicide have a mental disorder.

And from what I've said earlier, the success rates of treatment of mental disorders are better than many around here might imagine.   

So actually, mental health clinician's are saving people from suicide.




I take issue with some of this though. Like in what consists of a "mental disorder"?


For bipolar disorder the culprit is a lack of the micronutrient Lithium. That is a clear disorder with a clear cause. Schizophrenia is too because of the extreme unawareness of reality. But there are so many grey areas. I think institutionalization is a huge problem in the modern world. When someone gets diagnosed with one thing or another they get treated differently. I can't tell you how many times I've went to my doctor with health concerns and the first thing he jumps to is depression or anxiety. I've basically stopped going to see my doctors because I don't feel like any of them take me seriously and the ones that do don't dig well enough to really understand my concerns and just throw some treatment (pills usually) at me.

That's depressing. It depresses me. Really badly. When my first 2nd and third opinions all make me feel like a fool or an attention whore because I have a history of mental health issues... that is a problem.


Anyway, depression. At a certain point I do believe it is truly a mental disorder. But the practice seems to have a really hard time separating normal depression or unhappiness do to normal circumstance and CLINICAL depression. Treating people that are suffering a loss or trying to find themselves like they are mentally ill is a problem too I think. It sets them up in the institution. It sets them up to be on mind altering drugs more often than not. Which I don't think should be prescribed in most cases of normal lose. You're supposed to feel sad when a family member dies until you can resolve it within your mind or manage to put it behind you. When you take a pill that alters those sadness chemicals in your mind I think it puts you behind in fixing the root of your depression when it has a real cause. Because it covers up the symptom. It's kind of like when someone gets hurt and the doctor never really identifies what is hurt other than some general area and gives the patient pain killers. And because the patient doesn't know what's wrong the the pain killer is numbing them they never can address the issue. And in that case it is very likely they'd do something to make the injury worse. I don't think that's impossible in the case of depression either.

Avoidance is a huge issue when dealing with mental problems. I think pills enable avoidance in people that have normal mental issues. And I think that's a big reason why mental illness is so prevalent in our current society. And why it gets "treated" so well. Because in cases like that and some instances of bipolar disorders and other disorders it's not a clinical disorder so much as an environmental circumstantial issue that drives a person into mental instability - and ones the circumstances change they are better. And others that are treated with pills for years upon years upon years, like my parents, they aren't actually healed. Nothing has changed. They just cover up the problems. Which I think often develops into worse problems.


Statistics are a finicky thing when it comes to mental illness. The definition itself is up for debate.



I think a big problem in our society in general is being unable to admit imperfection.


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Re: PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #23781554 - 10/28/16 11:23 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

What about me Dr. Moommushroom?


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Re: PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #23781605 - 10/29/16 12:02 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
Middleman is a delusional psychopath.

JSB is suffering from tiny penis syndrome.

Akira: nothing wrong.  Clean bill of health.

CrystaG:  Parents were too emotionally cold.




:bobdobbs:


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Re: PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #23781620 - 10/29/16 12:11 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

PSYCHO ANAL


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Re: PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #23781623 - 10/29/16 12:12 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

You made a lot of really fucking good points there. Well said.

I don't think mental health is nearly as cut and dry as we like to think, there are trillions of variables at play. Depending how you define "mental illness"...I think pretty much any person who has ever lived life would qualify. I think misdiagnosing happens ALL the time, and I think some of things we think are mental illnesses could be like 20 different things. ADD.. does it even really exist? They have no problem putting 6 year olds on meth.

How many mental health issues are actual chemical imbalances vs how many are just unstable due to poor environment or life circumstance? Yet the 'solution' is almost always the same, to treat it like a chemical imbalance. When we may not ever even understand the underlying cause of the problem, or they may never even care.. just treat the manifestation of the symptoms. That seems to be the go-to for the most part. Pills are almost never the answer. It's like chemo.... it has a 97% failure rate... so why is it still used?? Money. And only money. Same exact fucking story here. We're talking about a multi billion dollar a year industry here. They don't profit from actually fixing people. Just "treating" them. And who cares if they actually have a chemical imbalance or not... pump them full of mind altering drugs anyway.

I just remember being a teenager and they had me on paxil because I was depressed, and I remember feeling like a zombie, I vividly remember the feeling. I was still depressed as fuck.. none of that changed.. but it was hidden by a "chemical smile"...it was absolutely fake and I absolutely HATED it. I was emotionally flatlined and was incapable of even achieving an orgasm while on it, as a 16 year old. I wanted to kill myself because of this drug. What a fantastic treatment for depression. I told them and they wanted to up my dose, so I stopped taking them. So "lets try something else" they say. The story was similar with all the others, I could name at least 12 of the drugs they tried on me. Depakote, wellbutrin, paxil, zoloft, neurontin, risperdal, zyprexa, seroquel, geodon, lithium, saphris, abilify. Some were worse than others. None of them really helped the problem they claimed to be treating and most made more problems. All of them had terrible side effects except maybe the wellbutrin. Once I came of the age of consent I was like fuck your fucking shit. The whole thing just left a super bad taste in my mouth.

Anyway yeah mental problems. Put people in completely different better circumstances and watch them magically get better.. amazing how that works.

But yeah that's why I say the mental health industry is still in its infancy I think. We are still pretty primitive because we still don't understand a whole lot more about how the mind works.
Or maybe we do understand a lot more but the pharmaceutical industry has a stranglehold on it... sure seems like it. We've certainly advanced in the past 100 years.. but not THAT much in this field.
There is still a long way to go and a lot of improvements to be made and a deeper understanding that needs to occur.


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Re: PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #23781625 - 10/29/16 12:15 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Cookiecrumbs could be sane but everything we have seen here proves to the otherwise.  I would say she has a bitchmorphic personality disorder.


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Re: PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #23781667 - 10/29/16 12:47 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I think I just became an atheist, seriously.  I don't think I wanted to admit this to myself, I think I wanted to think that something better of the world, but the world doesn't exist so fuck it.


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Re: PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE [Re: Lucis] * 1
    #23781669 - 10/29/16 12:52 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

The World :ancientaliens:


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Re: PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE [Re: Great Scott]
    #23781672 - 10/29/16 12:54 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

:lol:, yeah I know right.


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Re: PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE [Re: Lucis]
    #23781673 - 10/29/16 12:55 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Jesus loves the hell out of you though. Don't lose faith.


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Re: PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE [Re: Shroomism]
    #23782407 - 10/29/16 11:38 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
But yeah that's why I say the mental health industry is still in its infancy I think. We are still pretty primitive because we still don't understand a whole lot more about how the mind works.
Or maybe we do understand a lot more but the pharmaceutical industry has a stranglehold on it... sure seems like it. We've certainly advanced in the past 100 years.. but not THAT much in this field.
There is still a long way to go and a lot of improvements to be made and a deeper understanding that needs to occur.




Well I agree with you on most of this. I had psychiatric drugs pushed on me at a young age too. Sometimes they helped and sometimes they didn't. But here I think we have made leaps and bounds in understanding the human mind. The problem is and always has been that it is a for-profit industry. School too. People go and get these degrees but as many of us have experienced the actual knowledge that comes with a degree varies alot. And pharma has a hand in all of it from start to finish.

Don't get me wrong, we have developed some great drugs too. But people are indeed frequently misdiagnosed and drugs are often overprescribed. And I think it's a combination of problems that is encouraged and backed by the heavy hand of big pharma. It's okay though. Society understanding that it doesn't need drugs to cure every aliment is in it's infancy. Well I mean we do have to figure it out sooner or later. Soon I think. Hopefully before collapse from instability of pushing constant profit ideas that don't work in the long run and superbugs.


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Re: PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #23782410 - 10/29/16 11:39 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
Cookiecrumbs could be sane but everything we have seen here proves to the otherwise.  I would say she has a bitchmorphic personality disorder.




:rofl:
Awesome


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Re: PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #23782420 - 10/29/16 11:41 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Glad you agree with my diagnosis.  I was worried I was too drunk to be a doctor last night but apparently there is no such thing.  :thatsinteresting:


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Re: PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #23782432 - 10/29/16 11:47 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

You all are loons.  I'm the only sane person on this forum.


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Re: PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE [Re: starfire_xes]
    #23782479 - 10/29/16 12:08 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah now that oceanshore is gone you take the mantle as the sane one.


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Re: PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #23782582 - 10/29/16 12:55 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

:rimshot: ba doom cha!


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Re: PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE [Re: moonrockmushy] * 1
    #23782599 - 10/29/16 01:00 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

What consists of a mental disorder?

That's a good question.  In a way, naming and defining disorders doesn't make them exist itself.  But most people accept that certain people have mental disorders and that they exist.  So how do we draw that line?  What is pathology, and what is normal? 

I fully appreciate some skepticism of what defines a mental disorder. 

As I said earlier in this thread.  I am in an abnormal psychology class right now.  We read the DSM 5.  That is, diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders.  All those people who went into revising and writing the DSM are the people who decided what consists of a mental disorder.  So you'll forgive me if my mind is in that zone of spitting out lines from the DSM.  I think the DSM is full of useful information.  But at the same time.  There are certainly problems as well.  Luckily, clinicians are not bound to follow the DSM at all times if they disagree with some things.  For example, the DSM includes sleep apnea.  WTF?  There is no psyche component to that disorder.  It's medical.  But there it is, right there in the DSM. As if to say "See, this book can  be full of shit."

I think a lot clinicians understand that fitting people into little boxes isn't always the answer.  And the line between normal and disordered is often blurred.  Especially for many mental disorders whose symptoms are fairly common for normal people.  It's a very real and serious question.  Where do you draw that line?  I like to think of it as more of a spectrum, usually.  People can be sub-clinically depressed, or anxious, or have an eating disorder.  Meaning, they have some "issues" about it, but it's not necessarily something that can or needs to be helped by a clinician.

The DSM is amazingly great sometimes too.  It gets pretty specific about a lot of things, and you'll see people who fit these diagnostic parameters like a glove.  And their psychological syndromes will be very very similar.  They are then given that clinical label that so many hate.  But that's where the statistics comes in.  Studies and public health agencies use and analyze these statistics to figure out ways to help people with these syndromes.  It's in everyone's best interests to figure out the most accurate definitions and treatments for each of these syndromes.  So it doesn't exist just to stigmatize and dehumanize people.  Although, that is a very real problem as well!  Clinicians learn to hate people who have certain mental disorders, and it affects the care they provide.  Plus all the stigma from uneducated people who hardly even have a grasp on what the labels mean.  There is a mount Everest of bullshit out there in regards to laypeople's thoughts on mental disorders.  Even at my level, which is not all that educated, it's getting pretty difficult to be led up this mountain by people who don't know shit over and over.  I think that's one issue that people run into with mental health professionals.  They've heard so much bullshit from so many people over the years that they've figured out how to avoid going there again.  And people feel like they aren't being listened to.  Well, it's true, they aren't!  And sorry to say, but it's because they are full of it on 90% of what they say.  And the part they are right about, they hardly can articulate why, or even their reasons for why they are wrong.  Honestly, I am sure I'll follow suit, and figure out ways to not listen to people's bullshit.   

Obviously there is a glaring problem.  For most mental disorders the definitions are arrived at by observing people with symptoms and signs.  While there isn't a whole lot of lab/imaging testing going on.  Neuroscience is making good headway on this.  But it's still a long ways off.  So we're left with a bit of a flawed science.  Soft science I like to call it.  It's certainly a hard pill for me to swallow. 

I feel like my skepticism and other people's skepticism are on different planes though.  A lot of uneducated folks are super skeptical, but for the wrong reasons.  Or there are huge glaring flaws in the reasoning behind their skepticism of psychology.  Or, their problems with mental disorders are real, but I've already thought about it about a million times before.  People want to talk about how depression and anxiety are over medicated and over diagnosed.  but depression is the most prevalent of all mental disorders.  So folks have experience with that.  People should understand though that doctors are sort of trained to look for signs and symptoms of depression because it's a huge risk for suicide.  And they are trying to get people treatment as soon as possible.  Many doctors try to err on the side of caution.  And they are not psychiatrists or psychologists.  Usually people bring up feelings of depression to their primary care physician first.  They are the first line of treatment for people suffering from depression. 

Suffering is what it really comes down to.  significant impairment in life, or distress about it.  People seek out help.  Or they need help and they don't know it yet.  And mental health clinicians are really operating at that level more than anything.  They want to help people.  Their suffering is real, whatever label you want to put on it.  If I were a mental health clinician right now and someone came to me with their problems I would listen to them as a person.  An individual.  But at the same time I would be trying to figure out what box their suffering fits into.  But only as a means to help them.  Many others with similar mental health problems have come before them.  There are all sorts of studies and statistics that can help guide me to the treatments most likely to help this person.  Helping them is the focus.  They are there, and I would be trained to help.  The DSM is just a tool in that box of help I would have at my fingertips.  And mental disorders are defined with that goal foremost. 

One thing I have learned from studying psychology is that far more often than mental health professionals, laypeople are the ones misdiagnosing people and exaggerating.  People are always talking about depression, anxiety, ADHD, bipolar, and labeling people in their life.  But once you learn about what these disorders are really like, you notice that everyday people are trying to label people who don't actually have clinically significant problems.  When you observe people who really have depressive, anxiety, ADHD, and bipolar disorders that come to clinicians for help, they are usually far more severe than the threshold for disorder to a layperson.  Plus, why are they labeling them to begin with?  Mental health professionals label people as a means to help them.  Laypeople label people as a means to stigmatize them.  That seems to be what the purpose of this thread was originally meant as:  Call out the crazy fuckers on the shroomery.  But I think we should approach this with more compassion.  These people are suffering.  For example, people with borderline personality disorder are disliked for their behaviors by many.  But those behaviors are really over emotional reactions.  How would it feel if you couldn't help reacting with too much emotions to everything?  It would be terrible!  You'd always take everything personally, and get angry about things.  That's just one component to BPD.  But people don't think about that.  They just see a person with borderline being a total fucker.  That's not doing anything to help that person.


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Re: PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE [Re: Hippocampus] * 2
    #23782607 - 10/29/16 01:02 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

omg that guy is in the final stages of tl;dr disease.  how tragic.


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Re: PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE [Re: Hippocampus]
    #23782630 - 10/29/16 01:10 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Great post!


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Re: PSYCHOANALIZING PEOPLE [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #23782635 - 10/29/16 01:10 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Nah, it's procrastination disorder.  I don't want to study organic chemistry right now.


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