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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
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Strong gelatin instead of agar?
#23776380 - 10/27/16 11:22 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I've had a look at agar and gelatin, I know agar is stronger. I can get extra strong gelatin. 1kg Classikool 240 Gelatin (£14 - $17.05). 1kg of agar (£24 - $29.23).
Any reason to not purchase the strong gelatin instead?
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Quadman
Challenged


Registered: 04/23/16
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Re: Strong gelatin instead of agar? [Re: Ferather]
#23776765 - 10/27/16 01:27 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Good question. I believe gelatin is animal based , agar is plant based. Maybe ?
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Ferather
Mycological



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Re: Strong gelatin instead of agar? [Re: Quadman]
#23777085 - 10/27/16 03:05 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I know that, I also know that gelatin is used as a medium for cultures. But I think the main reason for agar is that it sets stronger.
I found nothing bad, ordered the strong gelatin.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
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Re: Strong gelatin instead of agar? [Re: Ferather]
#23777608 - 10/27/16 05:41 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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The problem is that the mycelium will actually eat the pectin and break it down reducing your plate to liquid. It cannot break down the agar allowing it to retain its gel form.
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Quadman
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Re: Strong gelatin instead of agar? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23777622 - 10/27/16 05:45 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I knew there had to be a reason, Thank-you Pasty
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MorePies
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Re: Strong gelatin instead of agar? [Re: Quadman]
#23779428 - 10/28/16 07:21 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I don't think you're ready for this jelly. I remember reading on here about substituting a heavy dose of guar for agar successfully. There's a big world of hydrocolloids out there!
Edit... Found it
Edited by MorePies (10/28/16 07:24 AM)
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Ferather
Mycological



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Re: Strong gelatin instead of agar? [Re: MorePies]
#23779460 - 10/28/16 07:47 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah I found it here, oh well good thing I ordered the smallest sample. Can I make use of it as a end result liquid culture?
Can cook it for much longer.
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Pastywhyte
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Re: Strong gelatin instead of agar? [Re: Ferather]
#23779472 - 10/28/16 07:56 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Won't matter how long you cook it. Fungi produce pectinase which will break it down. The liquid culture thing might work but I can't say how well.
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Ferather
Mycological



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Re: Strong gelatin instead of agar? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23779544 - 10/28/16 08:47 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Won't matter how long you cook it. Fungi produce pectinase which will break it down.
Sorry I meant most LC's have limited cook time due to crystallization of the sugars.
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: The liquid culture thing might work but I can't say how well.
Thanks for the input, I'll do some side testing.
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Mycolorado
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Re: Strong gelatin instead of agar? [Re: Ferather]
#23779616 - 10/28/16 09:39 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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No harm in trying it out. Not sure why there would be pectin in gelatin as gelatin is animal based and pectin comes from plants. Unless of course the stuff you're looking at is a blend.
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Ferather
Mycological



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Re: Strong gelatin instead of agar? [Re: Mycolorado]
#23779626 - 10/28/16 09:46 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Got it, thanks again Pasty, Peptides - amino acid group: (-OC-NH-). And we know mycelium use N, and require CHO for energy.
Will test use as a LC medium, no other use.
Edited by Ferather (10/28/16 09:55 AM)
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Pastywhyte
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Registered: 09/15/12
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Re: Strong gelatin instead of agar? [Re: Ferather]
#23779644 - 10/28/16 09:54 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Fungi also produce gelatinase and can break it down. Protein is good as a food source. My cubes love dog food agar.
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Ferather
Mycological



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Re: Strong gelatin instead of agar? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23779648 - 10/28/16 09:56 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Thanks Pasty, sorted.
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Mycolorado
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Re: Strong gelatin instead of agar? [Re: Ferather]
#23779677 - 10/28/16 10:15 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Thanks for the clarification.
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Pastywhyte
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Registered: 09/15/12
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Re: Strong gelatin instead of agar? [Re: Mycolorado]
#23779697 - 10/28/16 10:25 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Actually it's a bit off topic but I tried some dog food agar with shiitake straw strain and it's leaping off onto it with a fury. I was a bit surprised, I wouldn't have expected that species to go for the DFA.
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Mycolorado
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Re: Strong gelatin instead of agar? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23779777 - 10/28/16 11:13 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Could be the dog food you're using has a high lignin/cellulose content? Pretty sure they put sawdust type fillers in DF.
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Pastywhyte
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Registered: 09/15/12
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Re: Strong gelatin instead of agar? [Re: Mycolorado]
#23779902 - 10/28/16 12:11 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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No. I feed my dogs high quality dog food and I check the ingredients label quite carefully to ensure that nothing in there is going to react with my older dogs numerous allergies.
The brand I feed has zero grains or potato or tapioca and is 50% meat 50%, fruit and vegetables. The last DFA I made was from the lamb and apple blend.
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drake89
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Re: Strong gelatin instead of agar? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23780922 - 10/28/16 06:34 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: No. I feed my dogs high quality dog food and I check the ingredients label quite carefully to ensure that nothing in there is going to react with my older dogs numerous allergies.
The brand I feed has zero grains or potato or tapioca and is 50% meat 50%, fruit and vegetables. The last DFA I made was from the lamb and apple blend.
low available nutes make them switch up those enzymes and run fast to find food. so the line of thinking goes anyway...hard to say for sure
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Pastywhyte
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Registered: 09/15/12
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Re: Strong gelatin instead of agar? [Re: drake89]
#23781123 - 10/28/16 08:06 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah I hear ya on that. It's done well for my cubes before, but they were never significantly quicker on it.
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MorePies
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Re: Strong gelatin instead of agar? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23781132 - 10/28/16 08:11 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I have heard of using dogfood in outdoor installations of King stropharia to shorten fruiting times to under 4 months.
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Pastywhyte
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Registered: 09/15/12
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Re: Strong gelatin instead of agar? [Re: MorePies]
#23781184 - 10/28/16 08:33 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
MorePies said: I have heard of using dogfood in outdoor installations of King stropharia to shorten fruiting times to under 4 months.
Mudafucka always said that dog food agar pinned for him.
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drake89
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Re: Strong gelatin instead of agar? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23781239 - 10/28/16 08:56 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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4 months seems a long time for anything, good stropharia should do something in a couple months
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
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Re: Strong gelatin instead of agar? [Re: drake89]
#23782227 - 10/29/16 10:02 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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How much starch is there in DFA?
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Pastywhyte
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Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
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Re: Strong gelatin instead of agar? [Re: Ferather]
#23782262 - 10/29/16 10:25 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ferather said: How much starch is there in DFA?
Depends on the type of dog food and if you add any.
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
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Re: Strong gelatin instead of agar? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23782284 - 10/29/16 10:35 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ok second question, is there any reason to not use green water you get after cooking vegetables? It technically counts as a liquid fertilizer, with some starch components.
Edited by Ferather (10/30/16 07:22 AM)
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Ferather
Mycological



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Re: Strong gelatin instead of agar? [Re: Ferather]
#23793852 - 11/02/16 07:30 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Some feedback, the extra strong gelatin seems to be working like agar so far. In some ways better in the bacterial spotting, due to liquefying.
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