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Offlinetopdog82
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Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories...
    #23774914 - 10/26/16 09:52 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

In regards to the kratom ban for example, some people on the net were hypothesizing that the govt and big pharma were in bed and orchestrating this whole thing

I just find that hard to believe. The DEA is too clunky and stupid to really pull something like that off. With the advent of the internet, its much easier to find information and things like this are much harder to coverup

My coworker was telling me that he strongly believes that weed is not legal because its could make big pharma lose cash. Keep in mind, my coworker was diagnosed stage 3 cancer, and cured himself with heavy CBD-oils (I live in cali so its fairly cheap so I understand it)

9/11 being staged by the government? I feel people who believe these types of conspiracies really credit the government way too much with how capable these people are. Too me, all three of these horrible events/scenarios are just old rich white men who enact stupid laws into place, waste our tax dollars, and blame their ineptness and clumsiness on the people or other countries.

Hilary Clinton getting money from large corporations? Thats real. Thats not a conspiracy theory. And we have mountains of objective information proving how fucked clinton is in the head. And any attempts she make to cover it up just make her look worse

tl:dr;
I don't believe in these fancified conspiracy theories. Anytime someone has some political theory, I usually shrug it off. LAck of evidence. And most importantly, it gives way too much credit to politicians. They aren't untouchable saints with superpowers. They are humans. And they are prone to leaving a trail behind


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: topdog82] * 5
    #23775398 - 10/27/16 01:08 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Not all "conspiracy theories" were created equal.


--------------------
:thumbup: :thumbdown:


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Great Scott] * 3
    #23775411 - 10/27/16 01:16 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
Not all "conspiracy theories" were created equal.




--------------------
          :dancingbear: Free time is the only time :dancingbear:                    :thatsinteresting:


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: topdog82] * 2
    #23775471 - 10/27/16 01:53 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:
In regards to the kratom ban for example, some people on the net were hypothesizing that the govt and big pharma were in bed and orchestrating this whole thing

I just find that hard to believe. The DEA is too clunky and stupid to really pull something like that off. With the advent of the internet, its much easier to find information and things like this are much harder to coverup

My coworker was telling me that he strongly believes that weed is not legal because its could make big pharma lose cash. Keep in mind, my coworker was diagnosed stage 3 cancer, and cured himself with heavy CBD-oils (I live in cali so its fairly cheap so I understand it)

9/11 being staged by the government? I feel people who believe these types of conspiracies really credit the government way too much with how capable these people are. Too me, all three of these horrible events/scenarios are just old rich white men who enact stupid laws into place, waste our tax dollars, and blame their ineptness and clumsiness on the people or other countries.

Hilary Clinton getting money from large corporations? Thats real. Thats not a conspiracy theory. And we have mountains of objective information proving how fucked clinton is in the head. And any attempts she make to cover it up just make her look worse

tl:dr;
I don't believe in these fancified conspiracy theories. Anytime someone has some political theory, I usually shrug it off. LAck of evidence. And most importantly, it gives way too much credit to politicians. They aren't untouchable saints with superpowers. They are humans. And they are prone to leaving a trail behind



I think you really need to be intentionally dumb to think the government would never lie to you. The NDAA (national defense authorization act) even legalized overt domestic propaganda operations.

Ever hear of MK Ultra or the Tuskegee Syphilis Study? Nah its just a conspiracy theory. It doesn't matter they got caught its still never happened because your government would never lie to you and always has your best interests in mind. lol


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: topdog82] * 1
    #23775481 - 10/27/16 01:59 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:
tl:dr;
I don't believe in these fancified conspiracy theories. Anytime someone has some political theory, I usually shrug it off. LAck of evidence. And most importantly, it gives way too much credit to politicians. They aren't untouchable saints with superpowers. They are humans. And they are prone to leaving a trail behind



Can you watch things on BBC IPlayer over there?

Try and find a documentary released this month called 'Hypernormalisation' - It's over 2.5 hours long, but it basically explains how the system is engineered to induce you into feeling the way you do in OP. Fascinating stuff.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23775907 - 10/27/16 08:33 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:

topdog82 said:
tl:dr;
I don't believe in these fancified conspiracy theories. Anytime someone has some political theory, I usually shrug it off. LAck of evidence. And most importantly, it gives way too much credit to politicians. They aren't untouchable saints with superpowers. They are humans. And they are prone to leaving a trail behind



Can you watch things on BBC IPlayer over there?

Try and find a documentary released this month called 'Hypernormalisation' - It's over 2.5 hours long, but it basically explains how the system is engineered to induce you into feeling the way you do in OP. Fascinating stuff.



Challenger accepted

I will watch this weekend


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #23775910 - 10/27/16 08:36 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

CookieCrumbs said:
Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
Not all "conspiracy theories" were created equal.






Which ones do you believe then? What's a reasonable one?


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: topdog82]
    #23775914 - 10/27/16 08:37 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Conspiracy is a fact in all aspects of human life beginning in early childhood, from groups of 2 to entire nations and international groups, conspiracies are a fundamental dynamic of all social and political behaviour, period.

If you don't consider conspiracy as a factor in any issue you are blindfolded just as much as if you didn't take self interest, emotion or biology into consideration.

Conspiracy doesn't explain everything, but nothing can be explained fully without factoring it in.

It is the ultimate expression of naivete to dismiss conspiracy theories on principle. Conspiracies happen and play a role in virtually every significant historical event.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: topdog82]
    #23775929 - 10/27/16 08:42 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:
Quote:

CookieCrumbs said:
Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
Not all "conspiracy theories" were created equal.






Which ones do you believe then? What's a reasonable one?




Lol, Peyote Zen actually believes Sandy Hook was a false flag operation that never happened.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23775949 - 10/27/16 08:52 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
Conspiracy is a fact in all aspects of human life beginning in early childhood, from groups of 2 to entire nations and international groups, conspiracies are a fundamental dynamic of all social and political behaviour, period.

If you don't consider conspiracy as a factor in any issue you are blindfolded just as much as if you didn't take self interest, emotion or biology into consideration.

Conspiracy doesn't explain everything, but nothing can be explained fully without factoring it in.

It is the ultimate expression of naivete to dismiss conspiracy theories on principle. Conspiracies happen and play a role in virtually every significant historical event.





you you believe that conspiracies play such a large part in everything then you're blindered
to only see what you choose to see which often will include what isnt there


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23775962 - 10/27/16 09:00 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Conspiracy theories stand or fall on their individual merits like any other theory, not as a whole.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


Edited by Moonshoe (10/27/16 09:12 AM)


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: topdog82]
    #23776009 - 10/27/16 09:20 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:
Quote:

CookieCrumbs said:
Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
Not all "conspiracy theories" were created equal.






Which ones do you believe then? What's a reasonable one?




I dunno if I believe the full theory in most conspiracy theories. But the circumstances of the JFK assassination and 9/11 are too strange to believe we got the full story from the authorities.

I do believe we landed on the moon and found it to be a useless rock though.


--------------------
          :dancingbear: Free time is the only time :dancingbear:                    :thatsinteresting:


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OfflineOliverJames
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #23776012 - 10/27/16 09:21 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Ellis Dee said:
I think you really need to be intentionally dumb to think the government would never lie to you. The NDAA (national defense authorization act) even legalized overt domestic propaganda operations.

Ever hear of MK Ultra or the Tuskegee Syphilis Study? Nah its just a conspiracy theory. It doesn't matter they got caught its still never happened because your government would never lie to you and always has your best interests in mind. lol




I'm aware of the NDAA as well as MK Ultra and the TSS. But I gotta say, the finest form of propaganda I've ever seen is in the form of these conspiracy films. They're practically designed to have you sitting on the edge of your seat, feeling as though you're discovering some dark truth that no one else knows, as they cherry pick evidence and completely ignore certain facets of reality. I am very skeptical of the government, as I'd imagine many other intelligent people are, but there are also insane people who believe whatever the fuck they hear off youtube. Most of the Sandy Hook shit I've seen is absurd. It's like some people sat down and said, "Okay, how can we design a film to convince people that this was a setup", and thats exactly what they did


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23776025 - 10/27/16 09:29 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
Conspiracy theories stand or fall on their individual merits like any other theory, not as a whole.





who determines the merits, there are those that believe every mass shooting or
terrorist attack is a false flag, just as they do about 9/11 and many other
things, they use things that were done 70 years ago as proof of these things
happening today


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23776041 - 10/27/16 09:39 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Hey Pris, you know half this website believe your a government shill? Or a robot.


I'm inclined to believe the robot conspiracy theory.


--------------------
          :dancingbear: Free time is the only time :dancingbear:                    :thatsinteresting:


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Prisoner#1] * 4
    #23776043 - 10/27/16 09:39 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

The fact that some theories are false doesn't have any relevance to the assessment of other theories.

The fact that some people believe in false conspiracy theories means nothing at all about the validity of other conspiracy theories or conspiracy theories as a whole.

Each person must assess each theory for themselves.  As soon as you assume ahead of time that something is either true or false because it is a conspiracy theory rather than on the merits of evidence , you have fallen into error.

The fact that something is a conspiracy theory means nothing in and of itself.  It's just a theory, and whether true or false depends on the facts. But if you decide that just because it's about a conspiracy you won't even examine the facts and dismiss it out hand you are being painfully naieve.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: CookieCrumbs] * 1
    #23776047 - 10/27/16 09:40 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

CookieCrumbs said:
Hey Pris, you know half this website believe your a government shill? Or a robot.


I'm inclined to believe the robot conspiracy theory.





I'm the Shillbot5000


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OfflineLucisM
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: topdog82] * 2
    #23776048 - 10/27/16 09:41 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I used to get into conspiracy theories, and you can find a list of ones that have been proven to be without a doubt true on non-fringe sites, so that's a plus for you guys that study such things faithfully.

But I had to ask myself what was I gaining from knowing such things?  I came to realize I wasn't gaining a thing, it wasn't like I was taking such information and making it known to the masses, this was partially due to the ridicule I would receive from thinking such a way, and I know I shouldn't care what people think, but I am human and am prone to faults.

Anyway, I realized that they were taking energy away from me, energy which I could be investing in something meaningful for myself or the community around me, and I really felt like they were draining me, of course this could be a personal issue too because I am not sure everyone would feel such a way from them, and might feel empowered from having "stumbled upon the truth", but it has been my observation that many truths, not all, but a large amount, are not readily available, and one must search for them, and use their being to feel out which ones hold merit.


So conspiracies are interesting sure, but what do you plan on gaining from knowing the truth about many of the major conspiracies?  I believe the biggest "conspiracy" of them all is the fact that we think we're free, when in reality, at least my fucked up version of reality, we're not free, we have been conditioned to accept a form of mental bondage of slavery, and think a 9-5, white picket fence, shit out a bunch of kids, is a sign of prosperity, it's genius.  Get someone to think that drinking poison everyday is good for them, and that questioning things is bad for them, and you have complete control over them. 

Conspiracies help enforce that bondage, just like not believing in them does too, so this leaves me thinking if I don't believe in something, or if I do, well then what am I believing in?

You see the back and forth arguments on TV, with one side fighting the other, but people don't realize there are no sides, you have been conditioned to believe there are, what I believe to be true is that this life is a circle with no sides, and we must be like that circle, whole, as one.

I know that sounds super cheesy, but I believe it to be true.

Conspiracies are interesting, but I ask you guys to be careful when getting into such things, I have seen people go off the deep end after studying them for a while.

This is not my whole reply, I will spare you from that wall of text, but could write at length about how each side thinks what they think in my opinion, and why they do, and why it's important not to choose, and why nothing is wrong with wanting that 9-5 white picket fence reality because if that brings you happiness then by all means pursue it with gusto.  I guess I just feel like we could be more, as humans I mean, we could be so much greater than we are now.

It's a nice thought, and perhaps a delusion of mine, but I like to think it's true.


--------------------
©️


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InvisibleCapers
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: topdog82]
    #23776053 - 10/27/16 09:43 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I agree with op, for the most part. One can't categorically dismiss all "conspiracy theories", but most of the ones I've heard are far-fetched, and peddled by unqualified, uneducated people with negative outlooks.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Capers]
    #23776079 - 10/27/16 09:51 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

That speaks badly of your ability to locate credible Information, it says nothing about conspiracy theories generally.

That's like saying "all the theories of evolution I read in the YouTube comments section are far fetched and incoherent so I don't believe in the theory of evolution"


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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InvisibleCapers
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23776092 - 10/27/16 09:53 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

No, it's not. Evolution is accepted by all biologists. The people who peddle the conspiracy theories of which you speak have no expertise or qualification whatever.


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Lucis]
    #23776106 - 10/27/16 09:58 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah man I used to get into that shit too but I had to stop because it really was making me crazy. All these terrible things going on that noone believes and I can't talk about. I stopped watching the news around the same time. There's nothing I can do about it and it takes a toll on my mental health.

I stick to a motto of question everything and believe only what you see through your own eyes. There are loads of conspiracies I never believe or disbelieve and I choose not to put much time into looking into them or thinking about them. Another motto I've adopted is to only worry about what's personally relevant to you. Or me in this case. The things that happen around the world are horrible and I hate it but if all you do is focus on the things you hate then you only become a hateful person.


I'm not down for that.


--------------------
          :dancingbear: Free time is the only time :dancingbear:                    :thatsinteresting:


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23776142 - 10/27/16 10:08 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
That speaks badly of your ability to locate credible Information, it says nothing about conspiracy theories generally.





lol.


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23776171 - 10/27/16 10:14 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

i agree topdog.

Most are way too far fetched. Like all politicians are shape shifting reptile overlords. Come on.

Thats so over the top, it sounds like a sweet premise to a hollywood sci fi movie. Am i right or what Pris?


--------------------
"What you must understand is that your physical dimension affects everyone in the higher dimensions as well. All things are interconnected. All things are One. Therefore, if one dimension is broken or out of balance, then all other dimensions will experience repercussions." - Pleiadian Prophecy 2020 The New Golden Age by James Carwin

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #23776179 - 10/27/16 10:16 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
i agree topdog.

Most are way too far fetched. Like all politicians are shape shifting reptile overlords. Come on.

Thats so over the top, it sounds like a sweet premise to a hollywood sci fi movie. Am i right or what Pris?





everyone knows that obama and hillary are the only reptilians, they arent shape
shifters though, that's like some Xmen shit, they wear skin suits harvested from
previously living humans


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InvisibleCalifornia
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23776190 - 10/27/16 10:19 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Let's not even get started on the X-men shit.


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OfflineLucisM
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #23776209 - 10/27/16 10:24 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

CookieCrumbs said:
Another motto I've adopted is to only worry about what's personally relevant to you. Or me in this case. The things that happen around the world are horrible and I hate it but if all you do is focus on the things you hate then you only become a hateful person.







You say you only worry about the things which are relevant to you, I think the problems which are all around this world are relevant to everyone, I just think that in some countries you don't see the issues as blatantly as in others. 

I don't think you have to hate a problem, but instead might be more beneficial to see that such a thing exists, recognize it for what it is, and see if there's something at all which you can do to help alleviate the negativity associated with it.  It seems easy to give into hate for truly deplorable acts, but I know those things are always going to be because of how humans are, perhaps not though.  It would be nice if I died some day and was able to continue to return so that I could help each person out of negative thought patterns, and such acts would not take place, or course that very derp of me to say so.

I am all of those kids starving in 3rd world countries, I am all of those people falling prey to horrendous crimes, how can I not feel their pain.

I see people take money and send it to other countries for starving people, but they don't look in their own back yards for the same thing which is happening all around them.  I think that if you wanted to make a larger impact, rather than sending some money to some 3rd world country, perhaps volunteer at a soup kitchen, or go buy $100 worth of hamburgers and pass them out to the the homeless, you know this way you're getting involved in something first hand, rather than just sending aid someplace and hoping somebody else applies your aid the best way possible.

I think the more we get involved first hand in trying to change the things around us, the better it makes us as individuals.  We can't fix it all, but we shouldn't stop trying to make some type of impact, no matter how small.


--------------------
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InvisibleCalifornia
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23776210 - 10/27/16 10:24 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
they arent shape
shifters though, that's like some Xmen shit,



Some transexuals are shape shifters and Ex-men.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Capers] * 1
    #23776217 - 10/27/16 10:27 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Capers said:
No, it's not. Evolution is accepted by all biologists. The people who peddle the conspiracy theories of which you speak have no expertise or qualification whatever.




The point is that you can't judge a sphere of human inquiry based on the fact that you have only encountered poor examples of it.

That's like saying because you have only heard people do math incorrectly you dismiss math itself.

A person saying 2+2=5 only invalidates himself, he doesn't invalidate math.

Just like a person saying the pope is Bigfoot in disguise and Hillary Clinton is Elvis doesn't in any way discredit conspiracy theories as a whole or in general.

There have been countless proven examples of real conspiracies in the past and there will be countless more in the future.

If you close your eyes to this fact you are a fool and only make it easier for people to decieve, oppress or victimize you.



--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


Edited by Moonshoe (10/27/16 10:29 AM)


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OfflineLucisM
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: California]
    #23776221 - 10/27/16 10:28 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

California said:

Some transexuals are shape shifters and Ex-men.





That would be an awesome addition to the X-men, a tranny shapeshifter.


--------------------
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Lucis]
    #23776231 - 10/27/16 10:31 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

No.


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Crystal G]
    #23776297 - 10/27/16 10:57 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

topdog82 said:
Quote:

CookieCrumbs said:
Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
Not all "conspiracy theories" were created equal.






Which ones do you believe then? What's a reasonable one?




Lol, Peyote Zen actually believes Sandy Hook was a false flag operation that never happened.



I've never looked into Sandy Hook but I hear it has the odor of conspiracy about it. Someone I implicitly trust who has looked into it and examined the evidence told me that the alleged gunman was declared dead with the social security administration the day before the event. If that is true then the alleged shooter, an already deceased man, was a patsy and fall guy for the real killers, at the very least. It could be an interesting research topic for motivated researchers.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Ellis Dee] * 1
    #23776317 - 10/27/16 11:04 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

And not all false flag shootings/mass killings are fake, just orchestrated internally. People actually die sometimes. (ie: 9/11 top floor jumpers)

Sandy Hoax is shady as fuck. Crisis actors, supposedly deceased kids not showing up in official records, etc.


--------------------
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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Great Scott] * 1
    #23776357 - 10/27/16 11:18 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
Sandy Hoax is shady as fuck. Crisis actors, supposedly deceased kids not showing up in official records, etc.




If you actually bothered to do a lick of research, you would easily be able to debunk what you posted. The deceased children DO show up in official records, if you bothered to type their names into: http://www.ssdi-search.com/

Here's a guy who does exactly that for every single one of the victims and proves this conspiracy theory wrong:

https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-sandy-hook-victims-not-in-social-security-death-index-ssdi-official-death-records.t3186/


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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: topdog82] * 2
    #23776455 - 10/27/16 11:45 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

the problem with conspiracy theories generally, is that most rely on the 'well if it IS true, of course there'd be no proof' clause, which does make sense but is problematic because it means such theories are non-falsifiable and usually impossible to prove or disprove with the resources of a lone unaffiliated individual.

of course, not all conspiracy theories are created equal as peyotezen points out, many in the past have been true, many now are likely true. The vast majority though are rubbish so one has to be careful

a good rule of thumb is if a conspiracy theory requires the introduction of previously unknown or undiscovered forces -aliens, reptilians, bigfoot- you're probably best off discounting it right off the bat. If however a theory requires only the insidious barely-hidden agenda of a corrupt official or branch of government -such as the CIA selling cocaine to fund it's activities- it is much more deserving of attention


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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Ezuma] * 2
    #23776548 - 10/27/16 12:18 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Studying past conspiracies that have been proven to be real shows that they often follow a repeating logic.  Similar things are done by similar groups for similar reasons and in similar situations.  Understanding the conspiracies of yesterday will help you understand the events of today and tomorrow.

If you don't believe in conspiracies, I have a great investment opportunity for you.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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InvisibleCapers
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23776611 - 10/27/16 12:34 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Name one university professor who has expressed even an iota of support for any of the modern popular conspiracy theories (e.g., chem trails, 9/11, false flag mass shootings, fake moon landing, etc.). The only people espousing these "theories" have no credibility or qualifications. I never said that conspiracies are nonexistent, just that most conspiracy theories are absurd.


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Capers]
    #23776749 - 10/27/16 01:23 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Capers said:
Name one university professor who has expressed even an iota of support for any of the modern popular conspiracy theories (e.g., chem trails, 9/11, false flag mass shootings, fake moon landing, etc.). The only people espousing these "theories" have no credibility or qualifications. I never said that conspiracies are nonexistent, just that most conspiracy theories are absurd.




That's kinda part of the conspiracy, man. :smirk:


--------------------
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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Capers]
    #23776821 - 10/27/16 01:45 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I do not disagree that most conspiracy theories are incorrect.  I am simply pointing out that this is irrelevant. Any given conspiracy theory could be true and must stand or fall on its merits.  If you dismiss them as a whole without examining the facts rather than analyzing them case by case you are being gullible, naieve and historically ignorant.

Nothing of any political significance has happened without some element of conspiracy since the first settlements of Ancient Sumer.

There is no valid sociology, political studies, economics or history without the incorporation of conspiracy theory as part of the analysis.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


Edited by Moonshoe (10/27/16 01:48 PM)


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OfflineEzuma
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Capers]
    #23776883 - 10/27/16 02:08 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Capers said:
Name one university professor who has expressed even an iota of support for any of the modern popular conspiracy theories (e.g., chem trails, 9/11, false flag mass shootings, fake moon landing, etc.). The only people espousing these "theories" have no credibility or qualifications. I never said that conspiracies are nonexistent, just that most conspiracy theories are absurd.




well if you extend to conspiracy theories that are a little more fact based then many profs at my university express at least openness to such theories having validity. Not so much nonsense like chem trails, but stuff like CIA initiatives, private military groups backed by the US government causing upheaval in foreign governments to destabilize non-US-friendly regimes, or to create an opening for US intervention, then in fact many conspiracy theories stem from and are somewhat respected within academia

I would still consider those conspiracy theories, simply of a different caliber

the stuff completely evidence free though, such as reptilians, of course you won't see anyone respectable entertaining those notions


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InvisibleCelestial Traveler
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: topdog82]
    #23777004 - 10/27/16 02:47 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

The thing that I have against most conspiracy theories is not that I believe they're inherently false, but that the people who recite them act like the conspiracies they preach are some huge secret on par with the discovery of alien life.

Corporations do whatever they can to maximize and protect their profits, that's no secret.  I would be surprised if Big Pharma didn't have a role in banning any substance that could render their medicines obsolete.  I think many people who are yelling about it really want to use the Big Pharma conspiracy to prove to people that Kratom has medicinal value.  You don't even need to prove the existence of a Big Pharma conspiracy to prove that Kratom has medical value.


This might be off-topic, but I'd like to provide another example of the kind of problem I have with conspiracy theories.  People who constantly preach about 9/11 for instance act like it should come as a huge surprise that government employees might deceive or harm their constituent population.  Many governments throughout history have done far worse.  Maybe I can only speak for myself, but I don't need to be convinced to believe that my government is capable of taking malicious action against me.


--------------------
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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Ezuma]
    #23777027 - 10/27/16 02:52 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Capers said:
Name one university professor who has expressed even an iota of support for any of the modern popular conspiracy theories (e.g., chem trails, 9/11, false flag mass shootings, fake moon landing, etc.). The only people espousing these "theories" have no credibility or qualifications. I never said that conspiracies are nonexistent, just that most conspiracy theories are absurd.



Quote:

Ezuma said:
Quote:

Capers said:
Name one university professor who has expressed even an iota of support for any of the modern popular conspiracy theories (e.g., chem trails, 9/11, false flag mass shootings, fake moon landing, etc.). The only people espousing these "theories" have no credibility or qualifications. I never said that conspiracies are nonexistent, just that most conspiracy theories are absurd.




well if you extend to conspiracy theories that are a little more fact based then many profs at my university express at least openness to such theories having validity. Not so much nonsense like chem trails, but stuff like CIA initiatives, private military groups backed by the US government causing upheaval in foreign governments to destabilize non-US-friendly regimes, or to create an opening for US intervention, then in fact many conspiracy theories stem from and are somewhat respected within academia

I would still consider those conspiracy theories, simply of a different caliber

the stuff completely evidence free though, such as reptilians, of course you won't see anyone respectable entertaining those notions




I have a couple of well documented books for you to read before you make up your mind.

If you only read one the read either War is a racket or confessions of an economic hit man, but its best to read both.

War is a Racket by Marine General Smedley Butler

Confessions of an Economic Hit Man by John Perkins

The Creature from Jekyll Island: A Second Look at the Federal Reserve by G. Edward Griffin

These should all be available from your local library at least by interlibrary loan even if they don't have them in their collection, and torrents of them are also available if you do some searching.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Celestial Traveler]
    #23777367 - 10/27/16 04:25 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

What you are saying supports the validity and broad application of conspiracy theories. What you correctly point out is that conspiracy is everywhere you look and it shouldn't be a big surprise as this should all be common knowledge.

Unfortunately it is not common knowledge for many people- particularly those who dismiss conspiracy theories out of hand.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


Edited by Moonshoe (10/27/16 04:26 PM)


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InvisibleCelestial Traveler
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23777381 - 10/27/16 04:28 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I would prefer to call them moral imperfections than conspiracies.  Some people who are used to living in first-world democratic republics have become conditioned to expect their government to behave as if it were run by angels.

It's kind of similar to Ezuma's post quoted by Ellis Dee above.  People will actually use the phrase "conspiracy theory" to refer to the idea that the U.S. government attempts to subvert foreign governments.  That is no secret at all and should not be treated as such.  It is a simple fact.  The Soviets did it too during the Cold War, and they were battling with the U.S. to get as many regimes in power as they could that were on their ideological team.


--------------------
Funny Video              Pokemon But With Animals Instead              B


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Celestial Traveler]
    #23777486 - 10/27/16 05:05 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Celestial Traveler said:
I would prefer to call them moral imperfections than conspiracies.




:rofldrunk:

That is genuinely hilarious.


Edited by Moonshoe (10/27/16 05:06 PM)


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OfflineTNK
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: topdog82] * 2
    #23777599 - 10/27/16 05:39 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I use to have this neighbor - friend who believed that the earth was flat and covered by giant glass dome that the Americans and Russians fired nukes at to break it and failed.

I won't lie, I use to get ridiculously drunk with this guy and watch YouTube videos with him and the more videos I watched the more I believed it. Those videos are designed to capture people's attention in such a way that you believe the nonsense they're propagating.

There was a one money period where I whole heartily believed the earth was flat because of some YouTube videos

Long story short the guy took me out to the desert and thought he was gonna kill me. So I rethought everything and then realized how fucking absurd it all was.


--------------------
Edited by TNK (02/22/22 22:22 PM)


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: TNK]
    #23777624 - 10/27/16 05:46 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

What happened out in the desert?

:datass:


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23777638 - 10/27/16 05:51 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

He fixed the cable.


--------------------
:thumbup: :thumbdown:


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OfflineLucisM
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Great Scott]
    #23777646 - 10/27/16 05:52 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
"He fixed the cable."




--------------------
©️


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23777954 - 10/27/16 07:17 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
Each person must assess each theory for themselves.  As soon as you assume ahead of time that something is either true or false because it is a conspiracy theory rather than on the merits of evidence , you have fallen into error.

The fact that something is a conspiracy theory means nothing in and of itself.  It's just a theory, and whether true or false depends on the facts. But if you decide that just because it's about a conspiracy you won't even examine the facts and dismiss it out hand you are being painfully naieve.




okay I just got to checking this thread and saw this post. Fair enough and well said. I figure I made too much of a sweeping statement here

MOST conspiracy theories I hear, I am skeptical of. and many of the ones I would have normally believed I see as bullshit

You are right though. making sweeping judgements usually just ends badly when you are trying to make accurate judgements


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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: TNK]
    #23777971 - 10/27/16 07:21 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

TheNatureKid said:
I use to have this neighbor - friend who believed that the earth was flat and covered by giant glass dome that the Americans and Russians fired nukes at to break it and failed.

I won't lie, I use to get ridiculously drunk with this guy and watch YouTube videos with him and the more videos I watched the more I believed it. Those videos are designed to capture people's attention in such a way that you believe the nonsense they're propagating.

There was a one money period where I whole heartily believed the earth was flat because of some YouTube videos

Long story short the guy took me out to the desert and thought he was gonna kill me. So I rethought everything and then realized how fucking absurd it all was.



glad to hear you have your sanity back :rofl:


But if someone could give me some solid conspiracies that are indeed true I that would be great


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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: topdog82] * 1
    #23778170 - 10/27/16 08:04 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Tell me if you've heard this one. If you think it's true or not.

Obamamcare wasn't meant to fix anything, they never intended it to actually work the way they said it would. It was designed to fail. It was designed to screw up healthcare so bad in America that everyone would just get fed up and they'd support single payer.

What ya think?


--------------------
http://www.countdowntotrump.com





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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #23778210 - 10/27/16 08:14 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
What ya think?




He doesn't...


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: hostileuniverse] * 1
    #23778234 - 10/27/16 08:19 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Tell me if you've heard this one. If you think it's true or not.

Obamamcare wasn't meant to fix anything, they never intended it to actually work the way they said it would. It was designed to fail. It was designed to screw up healthcare so bad in America that everyone would just get fed up and they'd support single payer.

What ya think?



You make a good point and it may come to that. Problem reaction solution, the ole Hegelian dialectic. But as I understand it Obama-care was a conspiracy between foreign insurance companies (multinationals) who wrote the law and the politicians they bribed to rob the public treasury and screw the eye balls out of Americans.

Obama-care also earns the ruling party political points because every time a company fires a full time employee to replace with 3 part time employees to avoid obama-care penalties it counts as an increase of two jobs in the employment statistics, so they can brag about "creating jobs" when the opposite is actually the case.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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InvisibleCelestial Traveler
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23778670 - 10/27/16 10:32 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
Quote:

Celestial Traveler said:
I would prefer to call them moral imperfections than conspiracies.




:rofldrunk:

That is genuinely hilarious.




Glad you think so.  :laugh:


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Great Scott] * 1
    #23778710 - 10/27/16 10:44 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
Not all "conspiracy theories" were created equal.




Wise words


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #23778733 - 10/27/16 10:49 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

CookieCrumbs said:
Hey Pris, you know half this website believe your a government shill? Or a robot.


I'm inclined to believe the robot conspiracy theory.





All i know is that he has 1 laser eye and he types with his pinky up while listening to rock music, smoking ciggarettes and tapping his feet while posting all day on the shroomery about politics nobody really understands or cares about


Thats how i imagine him anyway


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23778742 - 10/27/16 10:52 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
Conspiracy is a fact in all aspects of human life beginning in early childhood, from groups of 2 to entire nations and international groups, conspiracies are a fundamental dynamic of all social and political behaviour, period.

If you don't consider conspiracy as a factor in any issue you are blindfolded just as much as if you didn't take self interest, emotion or biology into consideration.

Conspiracy doesn't explain everything, but nothing can be explained fully without factoring it in.

It is the ultimate expression of naivete to dismiss conspiracy theories on principle. Conspiracies happen and play a role in virtually every significant historical event.





I agree. Man is too corrupt and the world too complicated for conspiracy to not exist

But how much does it play a role on the world stage? We will never know..


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #23778756 - 10/27/16 10:55 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Bill_Oreilly said:
Quote:

CookieCrumbs said:
Hey Pris, you know half this website believe your a government shill? Or a robot.


I'm inclined to believe the robot conspiracy theory.





All i know is that he has 1 laser eye and he types with his pinky up while listening to rock music, smoking ciggarettes and tapping his feet while posting all day on the shroomery about politics nobody really understands or cares about


Thats how i imagine him anyway



:rofl:


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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: topdog82]
    #23778775 - 10/27/16 11:01 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Some conspiracy theories are true.

The rest were created by the CIA to obfuscate the truth of the real conspiracies and discredit the conspiracy theorists


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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: California]
    #23778796 - 10/27/16 11:10 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

California said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
they arent shape
shifters though, that's like some Xmen shit,



Some transexuals are shape shifters and Ex-men.



Quote:

California said:
Let's not even get started on the X-men shit.




WTF? you got started all by yourself, didnt even wait for me to join the fun


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OfflineCrystal G
I'm a teapot


Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 8 months, 6 days
Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Crystal G]
    #23779017 - 10/28/16 01:40 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
Sandy Hoax is shady as fuck. Crisis actors, supposedly deceased kids not showing up in official records, etc.




If you actually bothered to do a lick of research, you would easily be able to debunk what you posted. The deceased children DO show up in official records, if you bothered to type their names into: http://www.ssdi-search.com/

Here's a guy who does exactly that for every single one of the victims and proves this conspiracy theory wrong:

https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-sandy-hook-victims-not-in-social-security-death-index-ssdi-official-death-records.t3186/




I noticed you never responded to my post, PZ.

Did you actually do the work yourself and input the names of the children into the social security records index? Are you going to actually research the evidence for once? Or are you just going to continue basing your opinions on hearsay and what other people say?


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Crystal G]
    #23779193 - 10/28/16 04:39 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
Sandy Hoax is shady as fuck. Crisis actors, supposedly deceased kids not showing up in official records, etc.




If you actually bothered to do a lick of research, you would easily be able to debunk what you posted. The deceased children DO show up in official records, if you bothered to type their names into: http://www.ssdi-search.com/

Here's a guy who does exactly that for every single one of the victims and proves this conspiracy theory wrong:

https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-sandy-hook-victims-not-in-social-security-death-index-ssdi-official-death-records.t3186/




I noticed you never responded to my post, PZ.

Did you actually do the work yourself and input the names of the children into the social security records index? Are you going to actually research the evidence for once? Or are you just going to continue basing your opinions on hearsay and what other people say?





it's based on data that people have entered on ancestry.com, this isnt the social
security death index as they'd like you to believe


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23779199 - 10/28/16 04:43 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

There is no shapeshifting

David icke made that up because he used to watch too much TV on LSD so he saw the faces on the screen morph and came up with shapeshifting :lol:


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


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OfflineMorel Guy
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/23/13
Posts: 15,577
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: topdog82]
    #23779640 - 10/28/16 09:52 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Have you noticed that if it the sole owner of a compound isn't a pharmaceutical cartel it's made illegal?

It's against current drug philosophy to keep legal any plant that induces any chance of intoxication.  No matter the safety or side effects or lack there of.

They spoke of scheduling absolutely every medicinal herb in the early 2000's.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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