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Celestial Traveler
Random Observer



Registered: 03/03/11
Posts: 7,639
Loc: Idaho
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: topdog82]
#23777004 - 10/27/16 02:47 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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The thing that I have against most conspiracy theories is not that I believe they're inherently false, but that the people who recite them act like the conspiracies they preach are some huge secret on par with the discovery of alien life.
Corporations do whatever they can to maximize and protect their profits, that's no secret. I would be surprised if Big Pharma didn't have a role in banning any substance that could render their medicines obsolete. I think many people who are yelling about it really want to use the Big Pharma conspiracy to prove to people that Kratom has medicinal value. You don't even need to prove the existence of a Big Pharma conspiracy to prove that Kratom has medical value.
This might be off-topic, but I'd like to provide another example of the kind of problem I have with conspiracy theories. People who constantly preach about 9/11 for instance act like it should come as a huge surprise that government employees might deceive or harm their constituent population. Many governments throughout history have done far worse. Maybe I can only speak for myself, but I don't need to be convinced to believe that my government is capable of taking malicious action against me.
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Ellis Dee
Archangel



Registered: 06/29/01
Posts: 13,104
Loc: Fire in the sky
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Ezuma]
#23777027 - 10/27/16 02:52 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Capers said: Name one university professor who has expressed even an iota of support for any of the modern popular conspiracy theories (e.g., chem trails, 9/11, false flag mass shootings, fake moon landing, etc.). The only people espousing these "theories" have no credibility or qualifications. I never said that conspiracies are nonexistent, just that most conspiracy theories are absurd.
Quote:
Ezuma said:
Quote:
Capers said: Name one university professor who has expressed even an iota of support for any of the modern popular conspiracy theories (e.g., chem trails, 9/11, false flag mass shootings, fake moon landing, etc.). The only people espousing these "theories" have no credibility or qualifications. I never said that conspiracies are nonexistent, just that most conspiracy theories are absurd.
well if you extend to conspiracy theories that are a little more fact based then many profs at my university express at least openness to such theories having validity. Not so much nonsense like chem trails, but stuff like CIA initiatives, private military groups backed by the US government causing upheaval in foreign governments to destabilize non-US-friendly regimes, or to create an opening for US intervention, then in fact many conspiracy theories stem from and are somewhat respected within academia
I would still consider those conspiracy theories, simply of a different caliber
the stuff completely evidence free though, such as reptilians, of course you won't see anyone respectable entertaining those notions
I have a couple of well documented books for you to read before you make up your mind.
If you only read one the read either War is a racket or confessions of an economic hit man, but its best to read both.
War is a Racket by Marine General Smedley Butler
Confessions of an Economic Hit Man by John Perkins
The Creature from Jekyll Island: A Second Look at the Federal Reserve by G. Edward Griffin
These should all be available from your local library at least by interlibrary loan even if they don't have them in their collection, and torrents of them are also available if you do some searching.
-------------------- "If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Celestial Traveler]
#23777367 - 10/27/16 04:25 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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What you are saying supports the validity and broad application of conspiracy theories. What you correctly point out is that conspiracy is everywhere you look and it shouldn't be a big surprise as this should all be common knowledge.
Unfortunately it is not common knowledge for many people- particularly those who dismiss conspiracy theories out of hand.
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Everything I post is fiction.
Edited by Moonshoe (10/27/16 04:26 PM)
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Celestial Traveler
Random Observer



Registered: 03/03/11
Posts: 7,639
Loc: Idaho
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Moonshoe]
#23777381 - 10/27/16 04:28 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I would prefer to call them moral imperfections than conspiracies. Some people who are used to living in first-world democratic republics have become conditioned to expect their government to behave as if it were run by angels.
It's kind of similar to Ezuma's post quoted by Ellis Dee above. People will actually use the phrase "conspiracy theory" to refer to the idea that the U.S. government attempts to subvert foreign governments. That is no secret at all and should not be treated as such. It is a simple fact. The Soviets did it too during the Cold War, and they were battling with the U.S. to get as many regimes in power as they could that were on their ideological team.
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Celestial Traveler]
#23777486 - 10/27/16 05:05 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Celestial Traveler said: I would prefer to call them moral imperfections than conspiracies.

That is genuinely hilarious.
Edited by Moonshoe (10/27/16 05:06 PM)
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TNK
Pleasures of Africa



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Posts: 14,237
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: topdog82] 2
#23777599 - 10/27/16 05:39 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I use to have this neighbor - friend who believed that the earth was flat and covered by giant glass dome that the Americans and Russians fired nukes at to break it and failed.
I won't lie, I use to get ridiculously drunk with this guy and watch YouTube videos with him and the more videos I watched the more I believed it. Those videos are designed to capture people's attention in such a way that you believe the nonsense they're propagating.
There was a one money period where I whole heartily believed the earth was flat because of some YouTube videos
Long story short the guy took me out to the desert and thought he was gonna kill me. So I rethought everything and then realized how fucking absurd it all was.
-------------------- Edited by TNK (02/22/22 22:22 PM)
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: TNK]
#23777624 - 10/27/16 05:46 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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What happened out in the desert?
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Everything I post is fiction.
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Great Scott
Trigger Lover


Registered: 05/05/03
Posts: 19,797
Loc: Control Grid
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Moonshoe]
#23777638 - 10/27/16 05:51 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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He fixed the cable.
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Lucis
Nutritional Yeast

Registered: 03/28/15
Posts: 15,622
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Great Scott]
#23777646 - 10/27/16 05:52 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
PeyoteZen said: "He fixed the cable."
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topdog82
Death Spirit



Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
Loc: California
Last seen: 5 months, 3 days
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Moonshoe]
#23777954 - 10/27/16 07:17 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Moonshoe said: Each person must assess each theory for themselves. As soon as you assume ahead of time that something is either true or false because it is a conspiracy theory rather than on the merits of evidence , you have fallen into error.
The fact that something is a conspiracy theory means nothing in and of itself. It's just a theory, and whether true or false depends on the facts. But if you decide that just because it's about a conspiracy you won't even examine the facts and dismiss it out hand you are being painfully naieve.
okay I just got to checking this thread and saw this post. Fair enough and well said. I figure I made too much of a sweeping statement here
MOST conspiracy theories I hear, I am skeptical of. and many of the ones I would have normally believed I see as bullshit
You are right though. making sweeping judgements usually just ends badly when you are trying to make accurate judgements
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topdog82
Death Spirit



Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
Loc: California
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: TNK]
#23777971 - 10/27/16 07:21 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
TheNatureKid said: I use to have this neighbor - friend who believed that the earth was flat and covered by giant glass dome that the Americans and Russians fired nukes at to break it and failed.
I won't lie, I use to get ridiculously drunk with this guy and watch YouTube videos with him and the more videos I watched the more I believed it. Those videos are designed to capture people's attention in such a way that you believe the nonsense they're propagating.
There was a one money period where I whole heartily believed the earth was flat because of some YouTube videos
Long story short the guy took me out to the desert and thought he was gonna kill me. So I rethought everything and then realized how fucking absurd it all was.
glad to hear you have your sanity back 
But if someone could give me some solid conspiracies that are indeed true I that would be great
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: topdog82] 1
#23778170 - 10/27/16 08:04 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Tell me if you've heard this one. If you think it's true or not.
Obamamcare wasn't meant to fix anything, they never intended it to actually work the way they said it would. It was designed to fail. It was designed to screw up healthcare so bad in America that everyone would just get fed up and they'd support single payer.
What ya think?
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Great Scott
Trigger Lover


Registered: 05/05/03
Posts: 19,797
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: hostileuniverse]
#23778210 - 10/27/16 08:14 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said: What ya think?
He doesn't...
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Ellis Dee
Archangel



Registered: 06/29/01
Posts: 13,104
Loc: Fire in the sky
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: hostileuniverse] 1
#23778234 - 10/27/16 08:19 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Tell me if you've heard this one. If you think it's true or not.
Obamamcare wasn't meant to fix anything, they never intended it to actually work the way they said it would. It was designed to fail. It was designed to screw up healthcare so bad in America that everyone would just get fed up and they'd support single payer.
What ya think?
You make a good point and it may come to that. Problem reaction solution, the ole Hegelian dialectic. But as I understand it Obama-care was a conspiracy between foreign insurance companies (multinationals) who wrote the law and the politicians they bribed to rob the public treasury and screw the eye balls out of Americans.
Obama-care also earns the ruling party political points because every time a company fires a full time employee to replace with 3 part time employees to avoid obama-care penalties it counts as an increase of two jobs in the employment statistics, so they can brag about "creating jobs" when the opposite is actually the case.
-------------------- "If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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Celestial Traveler
Random Observer



Registered: 03/03/11
Posts: 7,639
Loc: Idaho
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Moonshoe]
#23778670 - 10/27/16 10:32 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Moonshoe said:
Quote:
Celestial Traveler said: I would prefer to call them moral imperfections than conspiracies.

That is genuinely hilarious.
Glad you think so.
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Bill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Great Scott] 1
#23778710 - 10/27/16 10:44 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
PeyoteZen said: Not all "conspiracy theories" were created equal.
Wise words
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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Bill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23778733 - 10/27/16 10:49 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
CookieCrumbs said: Hey Pris, you know half this website believe your a government shill? Or a robot.
I'm inclined to believe the robot conspiracy theory.
All i know is that he has 1 laser eye and he types with his pinky up while listening to rock music, smoking ciggarettes and tapping his feet while posting all day on the shroomery about politics nobody really understands or cares about
Thats how i imagine him anyway
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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Bill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Moonshoe]
#23778742 - 10/27/16 10:52 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Moonshoe said: Conspiracy is a fact in all aspects of human life beginning in early childhood, from groups of 2 to entire nations and international groups, conspiracies are a fundamental dynamic of all social and political behaviour, period.
If you don't consider conspiracy as a factor in any issue you are blindfolded just as much as if you didn't take self interest, emotion or biology into consideration.
Conspiracy doesn't explain everything, but nothing can be explained fully without factoring it in.
It is the ultimate expression of naivete to dismiss conspiracy theories on principle. Conspiracies happen and play a role in virtually every significant historical event.
I agree. Man is too corrupt and the world too complicated for conspiracy to not exist
But how much does it play a role on the world stage? We will never know..
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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topdog82
Death Spirit



Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
Loc: California
Last seen: 5 months, 3 days
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#23778756 - 10/27/16 10:55 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bill_Oreilly said:
Quote:
CookieCrumbs said: Hey Pris, you know half this website believe your a government shill? Or a robot.
I'm inclined to believe the robot conspiracy theory.
All i know is that he has 1 laser eye and he types with his pinky up while listening to rock music, smoking ciggarettes and tapping his feet while posting all day on the shroomery about politics nobody really understands or cares about
Thats how i imagine him anyway
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: Why I have come to no longer believe conspiracy theories... [Re: topdog82]
#23778775 - 10/27/16 11:01 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Some conspiracy theories are true.
The rest were created by the CIA to obfuscate the truth of the real conspiracies and discredit the conspiracy theorists
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