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fungus420
Psychonaut



Registered: 09/11/16
Posts: 18
Last seen: 5 years, 7 months
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Frank's Simple Coir/Verm Tek Issue
#23771471 - 10/25/16 08:58 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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So i have followed Frank's Teks up to this point and Everything has been going just swimmingly until i got to this section. I used one brick of the same Coco Coir as frank used. I placed one brick in my 5 gallon bucket along with 3 Qt of Verm. Following Frank's directions, I added 4 Qt of water for the brick and an additional 1 and 1/2 Qt for the Verm. According to frank, This should be enough to fill 12 Qt jars, but I was only successful in making 7 full jars of substrate. I tapped it on the ground and packed it till there was only about an Inch to a half of an inch from the top. Is it the right amount just maybe in a different sized jar? For example he Used the wide mouth jars while i only have the small mouthed regular canning jars. I just dont want to put it into my monotub just to find out i didnt have enough for some odd reason. Ill still be pasteurizing tomorrow though. Thanks for your help!
Edited by fungus420 (10/25/16 09:00 PM)
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r.lutece
gave Columbia her wings.


Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 745
Loc: ∅
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Re: Frank's Simple Coir/Verm Tek Issue [Re: fungus420]
#23771491 - 10/25/16 09:03 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Typically, jars are never filled more than 3/4 full. Most of the time, jars that will be used for grain-to-grain transfers are filled 2/3 full with the intention of adding colonized grain to inoculate them.
Edit: Guess who didn't see the word "substrate." :S Now substrate jars, that I don't know.
-------------------- One goes into an experiment knowing one might fail. But one does not undertake an experiment knowing one HAS failed.
Edited by r.lutece (10/25/16 09:04 PM)
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,890
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Frank's Simple Coir/Verm Tek Issue [Re: r.lutece]
#23771500 - 10/25/16 09:07 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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You packed it in the jars tighter than Frank did...
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tump
ban the undead



Registered: 03/17/16
Posts: 2,383
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Re: Frank's Simple Coir/Verm Tek Issue [Re: bodhisatta]
#23771533 - 10/25/16 09:17 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Tighter isnt better but will still work. Just harder to fork out in the end
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Hallucyjunkie99

Registered: 10/21/15
Posts: 132
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Re: Frank's Simple Coir/Verm Tek Issue [Re: tump]
#23772358 - 10/26/16 05:19 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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All that matters is that you got a good field capacity
--------------------
  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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PirateSwazey


Registered: 12/12/12
Posts: 2,993
Loc: Here, Now
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Re: Frank's Simple Coir/Verm Tek Issue [Re: cronicr]
#23772531 - 10/26/16 08:05 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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The problem is you are following Frank's coir Tek and not Damion5050's!
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crackbaby
shitpost aficionado



Registered: 08/31/15
Posts: 13,030
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Re: Frank's Simple Coir/Verm Tek Issue [Re: PirateSwazey]
#23772965 - 10/26/16 10:59 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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sounds like you should have enough substrate since you most likely packed it in a lot tighter than Frank (should still be good to go for pasteurizing, tho). If it turns out you have less substrate than expected, just add more colonized grain to the tub to bring it up to a 3-4 inch depth (i go with a 1-1(ish) ) ratio most of the time at this point, since i have an abundance of colonized jars and that ratio seems to result in a healthier, increased # of flushes per tub
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,890
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Frank's Simple Coir/Verm Tek Issue [Re: PirateSwazey]
#23773260 - 10/26/16 01:09 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
PirateSwazey said: The problem is you are following Frank's coir Tek and not Damion5050's! 
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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Re: Frank's Simple Coir/Verm Tek Issue [Re: bodhisatta]
#23773272 - 10/26/16 01:13 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Figuring out how to pasturize properly is a good thing n I'd rather see folks go that route.
--------------------
  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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crackbaby
shitpost aficionado



Registered: 08/31/15
Posts: 13,030
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Re: Frank's Simple Coir/Verm Tek Issue [Re: cronicr]
#23773625 - 10/26/16 03:14 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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i recently did a somewhat controlled experiment with 3 tubs done with the bucket tek, vs 3 tubs done with pasterurized CVG. All using rye grain as spawn (all jars given the visual as well as smell test prior to spawning, and all prepared with the same CVG mix (same coir brand for all tubs).
Out of the three bucket tek tubs, one developed trich before the first flush, one got it after the 1st flush, and one got it shortly after the second flush.
Out of the three pasteurized tubs, one went two flushes before developing a small trich spot which i performed some surgery on and was able to salvage a decent third flush. One got 2 nice flushes, then dunked it and got two more. The third tub got 5 nice flushes (dunked it after 2nd).
Pasteurizing is definitely the way to go, and doesn't really require that much more effort compared to the bucket tek
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,890
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Re: Frank's Simple Coir/Verm Tek Issue [Re: crackbaby]
#23773721 - 10/26/16 03:43 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Correlation is not causation. Let alone basing on one flawed "experiment"
I bucket all my coir. Usually see no contamination before flush 3. And I find cubes do better on coir cooked at higher temperature like bucket coir.
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PirateSwazey


Registered: 12/12/12
Posts: 2,993
Loc: Here, Now
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Re: Frank's Simple Coir/Verm Tek Issue [Re: bodhisatta]
#23774288 - 10/26/16 06:46 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I agree 100, if bucketed coir contaminates before the first flush it was your spawn not the method.
But Cron has a point, it is good for people to learn to pasteurize. I just feel like for people new to growing or new to working with a bulk substrate, it really can't get any easier than Damion5050.
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AlCapone2k
Beginner


Registered: 10/06/16
Posts: 842
Loc: Germany
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
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Re: Frank's Simple Coir/Verm Tek Issue [Re: PirateSwazey]
#23774322 - 10/26/16 06:57 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hey guys,
I have a question to the Coir brickets you use:
Are they sterilized when coming "out of the box"?
Actually if I understood the bulking correctly, the coir is not ALLOWED to be sterile.
But in Germany it seems that all coir brickets are sterile with hot dampf before packaged.
Are the coir brickets in the US also sterilized by the "manufacturer" and I just overred this or do I have to search for a coir bricket in germany which is not sterile out of the box?
Regards.
-------------------- Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best    My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: Frank's Simple Coir/Verm Tek Issue [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23774347 - 10/26/16 07:03 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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You're not sterilizing the coir to kill shit in it, you're sterilizing it because it needs to be cooked. The coir doesn't need to be sterile in the present tense, it just has to have been sterilized or pasteurized before use. Okay it doesn't even need that honestly, but you really should.
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AlCapone2k
Beginner


Registered: 10/06/16
Posts: 842
Loc: Germany
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
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Re: Frank's Simple Coir/Verm Tek Issue [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23774373 - 10/26/16 07:11 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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yeah, I understood that already, actually I furthermore understood, that sterilizing is bad for the coir (bulk substrate).
The question was different: In germany you can't get UNSTERILE coir, it seems impossible. Maybe its because of the law here, I don't know, but all the coir brickets I found are sterile "out of the box".
Could this be a problem, since I red, that sterile bulk substrate is not good, it should just be pasteurized?
Sorry if I didn't explain it well, it's 3 o'clock here and my english gets bad after midnight
-------------------- Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best    My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: Frank's Simple Coir/Verm Tek Issue [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23774379 - 10/26/16 07:13 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
AlCapone2k said: actually I furthermore understood, that sterilizing is bad for the coir (bulk substrate).
Then you aren't paying attention because I just said, in my last post, that you can, and should, sterilize coir. If you can concisely explain to me why coir shouldn't be sterilized I'll take your word and change my paradigm. But I'm pretty sure you're just recalling information that doesn't apply to coir. Manure is what you don't want to be sterilizing as a bulk substrate.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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Re: Frank's Simple Coir/Verm Tek Issue [Re: Inocuole]
#23774410 - 10/26/16 07:22 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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And by sterile they as in the coir company simply mean they killed off any seeds in it.
--------------------
  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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AlCapone2k
Beginner


Registered: 10/06/16
Posts: 842
Loc: Germany
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
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Re: Frank's Simple Coir/Verm Tek Issue [Re: cronicr]
#23774438 - 10/26/16 07:33 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: Then you aren't paying attention because I just said, in my last post, that you can, and should, sterilize coir. But I'm pretty sure you're just recalling information that doesn't apply to coir. Manure is what you don't want to be sterilizing as a bulk substrate.
I'm really sorry, I could swear I have read a few times now, that sterilizing a cvg substrate is not good as it kills everything that is needed in the bulk substrate. But I tried searching for this misinformation and didn't find it, sorry, I really have thought that sterilizing is not good for CVG.
So I should sterilize my CVG substrate. I have these autoclavable filter bags, I'll do it in it. But there could be a problem of lack of space in my - unfortunately - very small PC. Do you recommend a noob to just proper pasteurize the cvg substrate?
If I have sterilized my CVG, I still can put it into the monotub in open air, right?
(Sorry, if the questions are stupid :P
Quote:
cronicr said: And by sterile they as in the coir company simply mean they killed off any seeds in it.
Ah, ok, fine
So as a resume: It absolutely no problem to buy this "sterilized" coir.
-------------------- Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best    My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek
Edited by AlCapone2k (10/26/16 07:44 PM)
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,890
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Frank's Simple Coir/Verm Tek Issue [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23774488 - 10/26/16 07:47 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Coir is the only bulk substrate that can be sterilized.
Every other recipe needs proper pasteurization(horse or cow poop, straw, coffee, etc...)
Coir has no thermophile bacteria in it so pasteurization is pointless for coir
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