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Space Coast Slayer
Total Fucking Noob

Registered: 09/19/16
Posts: 158
Loc: I come from the water.
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How did I ruin this project?
#23773105 - 10/26/16 12:12 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Not sure how I fucked this up so bad.. This is my first attempt at cult.. Everything was looking promising..

I spawned MS innoc grain to hpoo/cvg and used a 1/4 nutritious casing of the same substrate in an effort to cover the few exposed grains.. I mixed at a ratio of 1 part spawn to 1.5 parts sub in an effort to get a little quicker colonization.. Depth of sub is roughly 2.5".. On 10/21 I noticed knots on my substrate surface.. Introduced the two trays to fruiting conditions in a 106qt SGFC with 5" of damp perlite in the bottom.. 12/12 light schedule via a 6500k cfl.. Got a pretty decent pinset and things were really looking on the up and up.. I've been misting 2-4 times a day when needed, only until the substrate is glistening and then immediately fanning to expidite the evap process.. A couple times over the last few days I used tweezers to pick up a bit of substrate and squeeze it between my fingers to verify it was at field capacity.. The small samples I picked up were indeed at field capacity.. Water never pooled on the substrate once..
Yesterday night a small fruit less than an inch kinda looked like it had a veil breaking.. Well this morning the cap was wide open and 4 or 5 more looked like the veil was about to pop.. These things are TINY..

I'm trying to figure out where I fucked this up.. Searching all day today has led me back to three possible scenarios based on the answers I have been finding.. A) Too little water in the sub.. B) Too much water in the sub.. C) Not enough nutes in the sub..
The temp has been 70 degrees on average with the RH at 90-95% other than when I fan it out which has been 6-8 times a day.. Is my substrate possibly too shallow?
Another suspicion I have is that maybe my light was too close to the sub? I had the bulb inside the SGFC.. I read here in several places that intense bright light is preferred and to place your light as close to the sub as you can (within reason) as long as you are not heating up the grow space.. I did read not to put the light in the chamber because of the obvious bad mix of water and electricity.. I did use waterproof tape to seal off the exposed part of the sockets in an effort to somewhat safeguard against electrical issues.. The light was about 10" from top of sub and producing a very negligible amount of heat.. A theory I have but which may be dead wrong is that maybe the light so close to the sub made them 'lazy' without a desire to stretch up?


Or could it simply be bad MS genetics? All these pins look like they are following suit on breaking the veil at this size.. I would think that in the crapshoot of MS, I would get mixed sizes insteas of them all uniformly maturing at such a small size..
I still have a shitload of primordia filling in behind this "flush" and if there is anything I can possibly do to rectify this and try to salvage a little bigger fruits on the next flush, I am all ears.. Come at me with both barrels I can take the criticism lol.. So bummed right now that it went from looking like it was gonna be a decent harvest to now dealing with this..
Thanks for your time guys and any assistance you may be able to render to this frustrated noob..
-------------------- Everything I post is pure fiction and all images were stolen from google.
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amidogen
see you on the other side

Registered: 05/07/16
Posts: 1,782
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-------------------- The biggest trip of my life was realizing all of the events and actions described in posts made by this account were never real and had never actually happened, but were instead the delusional ramblings of a severely mentally ill human being. I just had to move on for my own good. I love you all.
Edited by amidogen (04/19/18 12:29 PM)
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Space Coast Slayer
Total Fucking Noob

Registered: 09/19/16
Posts: 158
Loc: I come from the water.
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Re: How did I ruin this project? [Re: amidogen]
#23773130 - 10/26/16 12:20 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Haven't had any aborts yet
-------------------- Everything I post is pure fiction and all images were stolen from google.
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dankington
The Stranger




Registered: 03/14/15
Posts: 4,577
Loc: 8te
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The light and the SGFC are getting your trays too dry. That's why they've grown that way. They take all the moisture you spray them with and are trying to fruit as much as possible before drying back out. This is leading to shorter fruits. I'd suggest putting your trays in tubs next time, or a MARTHA if you can.
Otherwise, make monotubs. They're popular for a reason.
edit: an overly wet sub can create stubby fruits too.
Edited by dankington (10/26/16 12:33 PM)
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enlightenment
alchemist


Registered: 08/09/09
Posts: 1,647
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 8 months, 22 days
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Re: How did I ruin this project? [Re: dankington]
#23773167 - 10/26/16 12:36 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I also think that the light bulb is the reason for your small fruits. If you still want to use a setup like yours try to work with LED or a lamp on the outside of your box. Indirect light is sufficient. Look at all the monotub grows without direct light. Great success.
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Space Coast Slayer
Total Fucking Noob

Registered: 09/19/16
Posts: 158
Loc: I come from the water.
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I've currently got the light off and the curtains open and there's plenty of indirect sun coming through the windows.. If I keep on with that, and give the sub a heavy misting to rehydrate, do you guys think this project might be salvagable?
I'm still holding out hope that the sub is not too stressed and a better second flush is possible..
-------------------- Everything I post is pure fiction and all images were stolen from google.
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enlightenment
alchemist


Registered: 08/09/09
Posts: 1,647
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 8 months, 22 days
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After some misting you can have a good second flush IMO. Keep us posted. If it won't work genetics/bacteria/mold are possibilities. But as I wrote I think the light bulb is the reason for the failure.
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Space Coast Slayer
Total Fucking Noob

Registered: 09/19/16
Posts: 158
Loc: I come from the water.
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Thanks for the insight yall.. Much appreciated..
-------------------- Everything I post is pure fiction and all images were stolen from google.
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
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I think its combo of MS genetics and sub depth/sgfc... although not as shallow(this sub was 1inch) and it put out mini mushies. but they knocked me on my ass. 3g was like 6 of normal cubes.


of course shit genetics gave me these...

SGFC gave me inconsistent results using trays. do a monotub with trays inside. much better!
Edited by mushboy (10/26/16 12:59 PM)
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dankington
The Stranger




Registered: 03/14/15
Posts: 4,577
Loc: 8te
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Re: How did I ruin this project? [Re: mushboy]
#23773228 - 10/26/16 12:58 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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A thinner sub will dry out quicker. But it doesn't affect the fruit size. Allowing it to stay too dry does. Or too wet. This is a 2" sub

It grew this on the second flush
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
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Re: How did I ruin this project? [Re: dankington]
#23773243 - 10/26/16 01:03 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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now that i check on it this monster came from a mini mono with 2.4inch sub.
 but i have been misting the hell out of it and the sub always seems dry.
dank is correct.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 9 days
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Re: How did I ruin this project? [Re: mushboy]
#23773263 - 10/26/16 01:10 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Your substrate is slightly wet it is evident by the dark color in your stipe..it's not your light...ms to grain is fine...sub depth is actually perfect and a sgfc is an awesome route
--------------------
  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Space Coast Slayer
Total Fucking Noob

Registered: 09/19/16
Posts: 158
Loc: I come from the water.
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Re: How did I ruin this project? [Re: cronicr]
#23773291 - 10/26/16 01:19 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Does that mean it was TOO wet perhaps? Fuck now I'm really confused lol.. So should I not mist?
One thing is for certain.. I fucked up somewhere..
-------------------- Everything I post is pure fiction and all images were stolen from google.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 9 days
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It's not your spores it is your judgement on field capacity. .don't grab sub to test this during fruiting. When prepping your sub grab a small handful and gently squeeze... a couple drops should come out...squeeze hard and a small stream should come out and after thus you just have to trust the numbers and leave your sub alone and mist as need ed
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Space Coast Slayer
Total Fucking Noob

Registered: 09/19/16
Posts: 158
Loc: I come from the water.
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Re: How did I ruin this project? [Re: cronicr]
#23773325 - 10/26/16 01:28 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: It's not your spores it is your judgement on field capacity. .don't grab sub to test this during fruiting. When prepping your sub grab a small handful and gently squeeze... a couple drops should come out...squeeze hard and a small stream should come out and after thus you just have to trust the numbers and leave your sub alone and mist as need ed
That cleared a lot up.. Thank you..
Is there any way I can safely speed up the drying of the sub? Perhaps a box fan on the other end of the room to move some air? Or am I better off leaving it as is and letting time do it's thing?
-------------------- Everything I post is pure fiction and all images were stolen from google.
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Why hasn't anyone told you that nigger rigged light job is a massive fire hazard. Damn dude
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 9 days
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Re: How did I ruin this project? [Re: azur]
#23773341 - 10/26/16 01:33 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Just let it do its thing...can also let the fruits go longer just wait till you actually see spores
--------------------
  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Space Coast Slayer
Total Fucking Noob

Registered: 09/19/16
Posts: 158
Loc: I come from the water.
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Re: How did I ruin this project? [Re: azur]
#23773374 - 10/26/16 01:45 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
azur said: Why hasn't anyone told you that nigger rigged light job is a massive fire hazard. Damn dude
It's wrapped up in waterproof tape and plugged into a GFCI.. Not too awful worried about it..
-------------------- Everything I post is pure fiction and all images were stolen from google.
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Waterproof tape isn't going to stop the heat on the plastic
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Space Coast Slayer
Total Fucking Noob

Registered: 09/19/16
Posts: 158
Loc: I come from the water.
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Re: How did I ruin this project? [Re: azur]
#23773509 - 10/26/16 02:36 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Any lightbulb you can grab bare handed after it's been running for 12 hours ain't puttin off enough heat to worry about there fire marshall bill..
-------------------- Everything I post is pure fiction and all images were stolen from google.
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Th3Issu3
Stranger Danger


Registered: 12/30/14
Posts: 671
Loc: fucktown
Last seen: 1 month, 23 days
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Idk why Ive read so many bad things about a ms syringe lately but I've been using them for about two years straight and and before I got a flow hood I was at like a 15% contain rate. With one I'm sitting around 5-10%.
I do allot of jars and bags and tubs too
Using a ms syringe is fine, don't let anyone tell you it's not.
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r.lutece
gave Columbia her wings.


Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 745
Loc: ∅
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Re: How did I ruin this project? [Re: Th3Issu3]
#23773547 - 10/26/16 02:51 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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It's not that you can't have success with a syringe straight to grains; that's how I did my first grow and it went okay. But it didn't go great. If I'd been able to isolate on agar at the time, though, I could have had quadruple the fruits. While MS to grain CAN work, the likelihood that you'll get contams is higher. You might still sit at a 15% rate of actual contamination, but it raises your risk.
-------------------- One goes into an experiment knowing one might fail. But one does not undertake an experiment knowing one HAS failed.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: How did I ruin this project? [Re: Th3Issu3]
#23773563 - 10/26/16 02:58 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Th3Issu3 said: Using a ms syringe is fine, don't let anyone tell you it's not.
don't let anyone tell you to not let anyone tell you it's not. See what I did there?
MS > grains is the same thing as rolling the die at a craps table. It's awesome when you get anything but 7... But there's always the chance of that 7.
Cleaning on agar removes the chance of your inoculant having a contamination, since spores come from caps grown in open air, you can never have a guaranteed clean print. If you're having contamination issues, ALWAYS start eliminating the problems right from the beginning. Aka inoc.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 9 days
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Re: How did I ruin this project? [Re: Mad Season]
#23773569 - 10/26/16 03:01 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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There really is a bad stigma for ms to grain which is justified...but we have seen it work thousands of times...if it works out ...great if your having issues then you should know those issues can be avoided with agar.
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: How did I ruin this project? [Re: cronicr]
#23773592 - 10/26/16 03:06 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I did ms > grains for 4 years with mediocre success. Not anything special ya know? I made the switch to agar, and my yields have gone up, my success has gone up, and my sterile techniques have been polished in the last 2 years more than if I did ms > grain for 10 years.
You just get to a point where you're like why should I even waste a syringe when I have agar :P
But yeah we all agree ms > grains works.. until it stops working. Then you need to get back to the drawing board.
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Space Coast Slayer
Total Fucking Noob

Registered: 09/19/16
Posts: 158
Loc: I come from the water.
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Re: How did I ruin this project? [Re: cronicr]
#23773597 - 10/26/16 03:08 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: Your substrate is slightly wet it is evident by the dark color in your stipe..it's not your light...ms to grain is fine...sub depth is actually perfect and a sgfc is an awesome route
Would darker than normal heads on the pins indicate excess water? Are there any other kinds of visual factors on the fruits that you can use to indicate whether or not your sub is too wet? Thanks for all the help fellas..
-------------------- Everything I post is pure fiction and all images were stolen from google.
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WeavieWonder
Time Travel Sucks



Registered: 08/18/16
Posts: 1,455
Loc: USA
Last seen: 1 month, 4 days
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Given your sub isn't contaminated, you probably need more water. Either your sub is dry, and or humidity is too low. Not a fan of SGFC, personally. Especially with trays. I find trays are more suited for a martha setup.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 9 days
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Re: How did I ruin this project? [Re: WeavieWonder]
#23774216 - 10/26/16 06:21 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Tear dropped shaped pins and dark brown streaks running up your stipe can indicate your subs wet.
--------------------
  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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WeavieWonder
Time Travel Sucks



Registered: 08/18/16
Posts: 1,455
Loc: USA
Last seen: 1 month, 4 days
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Re: How did I ruin this project? [Re: cronicr]
#23774229 - 10/26/16 06:27 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Interesting. Good to know.
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Space Coast Slayer
Total Fucking Noob

Registered: 09/19/16
Posts: 158
Loc: I come from the water.
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Re: How did I ruin this project? [Re: cronicr]
#23774260 - 10/26/16 06:37 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: Tear dropped shaped pins and dark brown streaks running up your stipe can indicate your subs wet.
Thanks man.. Just gonna leave er alone and hope for the best..
-------------------- Everything I post is pure fiction and all images were stolen from google.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 9 days
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Best of luck man.
--------------------
  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Space Coast Slayer
Total Fucking Noob

Registered: 09/19/16
Posts: 158
Loc: I come from the water.
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Re: How did I ruin this project? [Re: cronicr]
#23778867 - 10/27/16 11:41 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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This would have been a halfway decent grow had they got tall lol


Ah well.. I'll give er hell next time..
-------------------- Everything I post is pure fiction and all images were stolen from google.
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Moabfighter
Tam Fighter


Registered: 12/13/15
Posts: 2,710
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Thin substrates IME often produce small short mushrooms. All about what you put in.
-------------------- KSSS And PE WBS.
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Space Coast Slayer
Total Fucking Noob

Registered: 09/19/16
Posts: 158
Loc: I come from the water.
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Re: How did I ruin this project? [Re: Moabfighter]
#23778876 - 10/27/16 11:45 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Moabfighter said: Thin substrates IME often produce small short mushrooms. All about what you put in.
I suspected that too but cronicr said 2.5" is a good sub depth.. I'm gonna try a mono next time.. See how a bit of a deeper sub treats me..
-------------------- Everything I post is pure fiction and all images were stolen from google.
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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My guess is that niggered up scfc light bulb contraption. Na man. They look good. You should be proud.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 9 days
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Re: How did I ruin this project? [Re: azur]
#23778942 - 10/28/16 12:22 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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--------------------
  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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