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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
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Re: Frank's Simple Coir/Verm Tek Issue [Re: bodhisatta] 1
#23774519 - 10/26/16 07:55 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Even if it did Goodluck getting anything to germinate on it
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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AlCapone2k
Beginner


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Re: Frank's Simple Coir/Verm Tek Issue [Re: bodhisatta]
#23774558 - 10/26/16 08:02 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: Coir is the only bulk substrate that can be sterilized.
Every other recipe needs proper pasteurization(horse or cow poop, straw, coffee, etc...)
Coir has no thermophile bacteria in it so pasteurization is pointless for coir
What you said also applies to a Coir-Verm-Gypsum Mix as Bulk, right?
Sorry, but now I'm totally confused If pasteurization is pointless for a CVG bulk sub, why do all the tek talk about proper pasteurization of CVG,
for example Franks Tek: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17246844
He just pasteurizes the CVG and I didn't find any tek that recommends to sterilize a CVG Mix. Also the bucket tek seems to be some kind of pasteurization.
Am I getting something wrong? Sorry for bothering you.
-------------------- Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best    My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Frank's Simple Coir/Verm Tek Issue [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23774619 - 10/26/16 08:16 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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coir verm gypsum can be sterilized yes. when people say coir they usually mean CVG (with V and G being optional)
pasteurization like frank's method is just fine, some people believe in proper pasteurization every time. even with CVG
however you can sterilize CVG
the damion5050(which has nothing to do with 50/50 it's just his user name) bucket tek is partial sterilization.
you add boiling water to your coir. the temperature is above 170F which is partial sterilization. 170F kills pretty much all vegetative bacteria (aside from shit found in extreme places which isn't in your house anyway)
if you accidentally go to 170F when pasteurizing any combination of(straw, horse or cow shit, coffee, worm casings, etc..) then you kill the microbes that you wanted to leave in your substrate. (straw, horse or cow shit, coffee, worm casings, etc..)have microbes in them and require pasteurization to shift the balance of microbes to all heat loving microbes. these microbes pose no threats to your cubensis grow. and help keep other microbes from causing problems during colonization.
if you mix(straw, horse or cow shit, coffee, worm casings, etc..) into CVG you have to do proper pasteurization. likewise using (straw, horse or cow shit, coffee, worm casings, etc..) or any combination of them requires proper pasteurization
since coir is made sterile from the manufacturing process. you just simply need to hydrate it. there's no microbes for pasteurization to have any effect other than killing things you introduce. but they will not germinate on coir anyway ( this is why it's used in reptile terrariums because it will not mold or spoil for months on end even while wet) this is why the cubensis mycelium can colonize the coir and only if your spawn is dirty do you see contamination before the first flush.
if you cook the fuck out of the coir the mycelium has an easier time colonizing it.at least in my opinion performance is far better if you cook the coir and it turns to a much darker brown nearly black.
proper pasteurization is fine to cook the coir. and a great way to learn proper pasteurization. I'll admit I started off doing frank's pasteurization with coir in jars on the stove.
once you learn how to do it that way it's now a skill you own. I would move on to sterilizing your coir after learning how to pasteurize.
it's easier to just boil the fuck out of it.
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AlCapone2k
Beginner


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Re: Frank's Simple Coir/Verm Tek Issue [Re: bodhisatta]
#23774648 - 10/26/16 08:25 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Thank you very much Bodhi, now I understood everything It was really confusing actually 
Since I want to start only with CVG sub I can either pasteurize or sterilize. I don't know why but I consider sterilizing easier that pasteurizing. It's just filling the sub into filter bags and put it in the PC. But I will pasteurize it to learn pasteurizing as you said
-------------------- Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best    My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Frank's Simple Coir/Verm Tek Issue [Re: bodhisatta]
#23774649 - 10/26/16 08:25 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I hope that made sense.
Don't worry about the nutrition of the substrate. you're getting your nutrition from the grain spawn. your substrate supplies water.
regardless of people using poo or coir or whatever else 2 dry ounces(56.7g) of mushrooms from 1 "myco" quart/liter of grain(that's 2/3 full only so there's room to shake) is a good goal.
I've yet to see one substrate that consistently makes you get more dry mushroom weight per quart/liter of spawn used
which is why I have the opinion that the substrate is a sponge "water engine" for the mycelium to make fruits.
and coir does a mighty fine job of doing that. as has been shown hundreds of times by people doing amazing CVG tubs.
if you weigh grows though it's pretty clear that mycelium gets something more than water out of coir, and any other substrate too. but you can't argue with the how easy it is to prepare, if you sterilize it, and contamination resistant it is even when sterilized.
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AlCapone2k
Beginner


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Re: Frank's Simple Coir/Verm Tek Issue [Re: bodhisatta]
#23774722 - 10/26/16 08:47 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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50g of dried shrooms per jar would be amazing I hope I will also harvest so much. At the moment I'm still at the "cleaning agar" stadium but I really like to read/know/ask everything before I start, so I used the chance to ask for CVG in this thread eventhoug it's quite a long way until I can start with bulk sub.
Thank you very much, you helped me a Lot.
Could you just repeat the last sentence "but you can't argue with..." in other words? I actually don't understand ist. Sorry!
-------------------- Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best    My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek
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crackbaby
shitpost aficionado



Registered: 08/31/15
Posts: 12,994
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Re: Frank's Simple Coir/Verm Tek Issue [Re: bodhisatta]
#23774750 - 10/26/16 08:55 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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this has cleared things up for me as well (also re-read through Spitball's 'Bucket Tek vs proper pasteurization thread--especially the last couple pages)...sorry about my earlier post with regard to the confidence i had in my 'experiment'. Most likely the higher success rate of the pasteurized tubs vs those done with the bucket tek was due to the coir getting more evenly and thoroughly cooked in the jars (seemed like it was always hard to keep the scalding hot CVG in the bucket from being uneven and lumpy with the long mixing spoon i was using)
Definitely gonna start doing some tubs with sterilized CVG and see how that goes
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
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Re: Frank's Simple Coir/Verm Tek Issue [Re: crackbaby]
#23774780 - 10/26/16 09:01 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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but you can't argue with the how easy it(coir or CVG) is to prepare, if you sterilize it, and contamination resistant it is even when sterilized.
saying CVG or coir is so easy to prepare, because you can sterilize it. it is also contamination resistant, and it's still resistant when sterilized.
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crackbaby
shitpost aficionado



Registered: 08/31/15
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Re: Frank's Simple Coir/Verm Tek Issue [Re: bodhisatta]
#23774795 - 10/26/16 09:08 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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ya it's definitely easier to sterilize than pasteurize...another reason i'm glad I found this thread
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AlCapone2k
Beginner


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Re: Frank's Simple Coir/Verm Tek Issue [Re: crackbaby]
#23774847 - 10/26/16 09:26 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Thank you very much bodhi, now I understood the sentence
Do you sterilize CVG in hard or is the usage of a unicorn filter bag better? And if so, do I have to seal the bag completely or is folding it to prevent water getting in enough? I think sealing is not necessary since it is spawned in open air anyway, right?
Regards
-------------------- Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best    My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
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Re: Frank's Simple Coir/Verm Tek Issue [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23774851 - 10/26/16 09:27 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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fungus420
Psychonaut



Registered: 09/11/16
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Re: Frank's Simple Coir/Verm Tek Issue [Re: bodhisatta]
#23797842 - 11/03/16 02:16 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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So i went a head and pasteurized the jars and made up the mono tub. that was Oct. 29 at 7p.m. I just wanted to give everyone an update with a few pictures of how its coming along. Let me know what you think! 


-------------------- “Through our eyes, the universe is perceiving itself. Through our ears, the universe is listening to its harmonies. We are the witnesses through which the universe becomes conscious of its glory, of its magnificence.” -alan watts
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MaJiK_420
...lost



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Re: Frank's Simple Coir/Verm Tek Issue [Re: fungus420]
#23813174 - 11/08/16 03:34 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Man... what the hell have I been doing the last couple years. I'm in the same boat as a couple of you, I thought I was supposed to be pasteurizing my coir, all this fiddling with the correct temps has been a waste of time lol. I mean, I guess I know now, but I don't think I'm going to be using poo or anything anytime soon.
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PirateSwazey


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Re: Frank's Simple Coir/Verm Tek Issue [Re: crackbaby] 1
#23815371 - 11/09/16 07:19 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
crackbaby said: ya it's definitely easier to sterilize than pasteurize...another reason i'm glad I found this thread 
Either way it's extra work... Really just pour boiling water over the coco coir and verm inside a bucket and it is golden. No sterilizer, no filter bag, no thermometer. Have been doing it for years, I promise it works wonderfully.
My Elementary Coir Tek - by Damion5050
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Frank's Simple Coir/Verm Tek Issue [Re: PirateSwazey]
#23815557 - 11/09/16 08:45 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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crackbaby
shitpost aficionado



Registered: 08/31/15
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Re: Frank's Simple Coir/Verm Tek Issue [Re: PirateSwazey]
#23815806 - 11/09/16 10:22 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
PirateSwazey said:
Quote:
crackbaby said: ya it's definitely easier to sterilize than pasteurize...another reason i'm glad I found this thread 
Either way it's extra work... Really just pour boiling water over the coco coir and verm inside a bucket and it is golden. No sterilizer, no filter bag, no thermometer. Have been doing it for years, I promise it works wonderfully.
My Elementary Coir Tek - by Damion5050
Lemme just get this straight...
to use a couple extreme examples--
1.) if you were to take perfectly clean, colonized spawn and add it to a brick of coir with some vermiculite and gypsum and no water (lets even say the coir brick has been broken up nicely but is left dry), this wouldn't work.
2.) if you take that spawn and add it to a CVG mix that is extremely muddy from too much water, this wouldn't work (given that it's done at the typical spawn to substrate ratio)
would you guys agree on this?
so there IS a target area within which the CVG needs to become hydrated and mixed evenly so as to allow for fast, efficient colonization, no?
So wouldn't mixing errything up really good, sqeeze-testing it for field capacity, then loading it into jars and cooking it thouroughly be the best way?
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up


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Re: Frank's Simple Coir/Verm Tek Issue [Re: crackbaby]
#23815829 - 11/09/16 10:33 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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as swazey said that's just extra work. after a couple runs you know how much water to add and you get perfect results every time.
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ComebackKid
Multispore Enthusiast



Registered: 05/27/16
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Re: Frank's Simple Coir/Verm Tek Issue [Re: crackbaby]
#23815845 - 11/09/16 10:39 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
crackbaby said: So wouldn't mixing errything up really good, sqeeze-testing it for field capacity, then loading it into jars and cooking it thouroughly be the best way?
I guess technically. If you wanna do a but load more work than you have to... Or you could just measure how much water you put in the bucket for bucket tek.
--------------------
Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care
Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind. Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind, is peering in from outside the universe. Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up


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Re: Frank's Simple Coir/Verm Tek Issue [Re: ComebackKid]
#23815875 - 11/09/16 10:50 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
ComebackKid said:
Quote:
crackbaby said: So wouldn't mixing errything up really good, sqeeze-testing it for field capacity, then loading it into jars and cooking it thouroughly be the best way? use the substrate in a tub
that would be the easiest until you learn how much water to use. use hot/boiling water in your bucket and you dont need another round of heating.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
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Re: Frank's Simple Coir/Verm Tek Issue [Re: spacechildo]
#23815898 - 11/09/16 11:02 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Sometimes the bricks vary in size and weight. I usually adjust based on that. But really a smidge dry won't hurt a thing which is why the standard bucket tek errs on the dry side.
I used to sterilize my coir all the time. It was extra work but I loved how it colonized. Sometimes I will pack a few buckets worth into jars and sterilize the hell outta them. Leave the lids on and use for small projects as needed. But the bucket is the workhorse. Too easy.
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