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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Antibacterial Tea Agar [Re: Ferather]
#24500326 - 07/22/17 07:26 AM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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The CaCO3 and MG nutrients are classed as inorganic, so essentially the C-Gel agar is inorganic.
Edited by Ferather (07/22/17 07:39 AM)
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
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Re: Antibacterial Tea Agar [Re: Ferather]
#24506767 - 07/25/17 09:11 AM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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The low carbon C-Gel agar works, and does not stall, I will be transferring using carbon rich pegs. Use the C-Gel agar for extreme cleaning or validation of another transfer (2 step).
No contamination, discolouration or signs of any weirdness.
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Ferather
Mycological



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Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
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Re: Antibacterial Tea Agar [Re: Ferather]
#24506776 - 07/25/17 09:19 AM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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The next T-Gel agar recipe will be based on eatyualive's, 50% tea extract 50% water method.
Recipe: 62g CaCO3 water, 62g Extract, 2.5g Agar, 0.2g 240B Gelatin, 0.1g MG.
Extract: 3.25g (1 bag) Black tea + 125g CaCO3 water.
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DailyShroomer
Stranger


Registered: 05/22/17
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Re: Antibacterial Tea Agar [Re: Ferather]
#24510578 - 07/26/17 09:38 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Do you think your use of tea on agar will also have practical use in LC as well?? I'm interested in the tannin and polyphenol contents of tea as well as the acidic nature to deter growth of bacteria and mold in an LC jar, but perhaps for very narrow species of mushrooms.
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DailyShroomer
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Polysaccharide, polyphenol and tannic acid. With the first as food for your desired mycelium and the latter 2 as antibiotic to fight against contaminants. Don't you think this is how the T-gel works in a nutshell?? Also I think the C-gel might not work as good for acidic loving species e.g wood lovers.
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
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T-Gel works in two ways, by restricting the carbon source (no sugar, starch or cellulose), it requires laccase and protease enzymes. The second is the antibacterial effects of the phenol carbon sources (tannin, catechins), an inhibitory carbon source.
By default a wood lover will decay inhibitory materials in wood, the tree's natural defences. Not all woodloving mycelium like acidity, in fact BE with oysters is higher @ 7-8.
I don't use liquid cultures, and therefore cannot comment on it.
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DailyShroomer
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Re: Antibacterial Tea Agar [Re: Ferather]
#24511479 - 07/27/17 10:33 AM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Have you seen this, Ferather?? https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15736192/fpart/1/vc/1
Do you think they also have antibacterial properties like tea?? Do you think it will be better if amended with CaCO3?? I thought if that work so why tea wouldn't??
Also in my country there's a traditional wood tea drink made from Sappan Wood (relative to Brazil Wood) and they often sold in dried form so maybe I can do the same as link above with less wood to water ratio since they're dried?? What piqued my interest was the antimicrobial substance called Brazilin from these Sappan Wood (Biancaea sappan). http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1995764515000541
What do you think??
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
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Wood extracts will work like tea extracts yes, just ignore that and call it "plant extract". You want the soluble inhibitory (anti-microbial) materials, they are acidic.
The CaCO3 is used to achieve a desired end pH (not too acidic). I've seen wood extract agar's, works of course.
Example plant products.
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Ferather
Mycological



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Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
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Re: Antibacterial Tea Agar [Re: Ferather]
#24511622 - 07/27/17 11:57 AM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Also to point out, the green machine is not only a mycelium, but also a woodlover. Therefore other than higher pH, infection from spores is very likely.
So such thing as woodloving mediums without the green.
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Ferather
Mycological



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Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
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Re: Antibacterial Tea Agar [Re: Ferather]
#24511687 - 07/27/17 12:22 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Open air safe, non sterile, settings: 100% complex carbon source + pH 7-8. No soluble or easy carbon sources + undesired pH (no activation).
You will still get "live" mold from spawn or transfers.
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Ferather
Mycological



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Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
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Re: Antibacterial Tea Agar [Re: Ferather]
#24511697 - 07/27/17 12:27 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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You can also use my cellulose agar alternative, just control the end pH. Paper pellets are 95-97% cellulose, no lignin, sugar etc.
25g pellets + (75g CaCO3 water + 1g MG).
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DailyShroomer
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Re: Antibacterial Tea Agar [Re: Ferather]
#24512485 - 07/27/17 06:32 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Just like I suspected, CaCO3 amendment for plant extract is a must, eh??
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DailyShroomer
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Re: Antibacterial Tea Agar [Re: Ferather]
#24512492 - 07/27/17 06:34 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Btw, any alternative for MG???
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LizardWizard
GnomeGrower




Registered: 01/07/15
Posts: 13,692
Loc: the parking lot
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look for Nigari, it's magnesiumchloride.
-------------------- The best things in life can be smelled on one's fingers.
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
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No sodium or magnesium based pH adjustment, they have known toxicity levels, use calcium based alkali's only. Any organic or non-organic "soluble nutrients", check the label, you want 1% nitrogen total added.
Gr0wer uses: Espoma organic plant-tone (5-3-3), Mycolorado uses: Age Old Grow (12-6-6).
I'm using Miracle-Gro (24-8-16), there are a few brands around.
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Ferather
Mycological



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Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
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Re: Antibacterial Tea Agar [Re: Ferather]
#24513688 - 07/28/17 09:50 AM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Here are the results of the updated T-Gel recipe, twice as strong, twice as fast. Sorry for the image quality, there is condensate on the lid currently.
Scrapings also grow out, but growth is best from the peg.
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LizardWizard
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Registered: 01/07/15
Posts: 13,692
Loc: the parking lot
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Re: Antibacterial Tea Agar [Re: Ferather]
#24513715 - 07/28/17 10:04 AM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Wait, hold up, you're trying to tell me Nigari has toxins in it or something? It's extracted out of sea salt, why would that be a problem? I don't see the point here, but maybe I'm not following... Please explain?
-------------------- The best things in life can be smelled on one's fingers.
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DailyShroomer
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Re: Antibacterial Tea Agar [Re: Ferather]
#24513735 - 07/28/17 10:17 AM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Btw is it okay to use pour tek without sterilizing plates for T-gel??
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DailyShroomer
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Quote:
LizardWizard said: Wait, hold up, you're trying to tell me Nigari has toxins in it or something? It's extracted out of sea salt, why would that be a problem? I don't see the point here, but maybe I'm not following... Please explain?
Sodium. Fungi hate that stuff.
Edit : Nevermind. I must be too tired, it was magnesium all along, I don't have much to say. Carry on.
Edited by DailyShroomer (07/28/17 10:21 AM)
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
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It's not a problem in small amounts, but both sodium and magnesium cause issues at certain amounts-ratios. Calcium is safe because it doesn't cause toxicity, only growth reactions to pH level are an issue.
However CaCO3 will stop dissolving above pH 9-10, so it's not actually that bad for pH. Additionally no one sodium or magnesium bathes straw, because it doesn't work.
Furthermore its suggested to use low magnesium lime for this reason.
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