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vatman
I'm Vatman


Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 1,642
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Re: Antibacterial Tea Agar [Re: katbusa]
#23808022 - 11/06/16 08:40 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Looks more like a 5.5 from the photo but I could be wrong.
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Mycolorado
Hobbyist


Registered: 07/23/16
Posts: 8,529
Loc: Interdimensional Bootcamp
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Re: Antibacterial Tea Agar [Re: vatman]
#23808054 - 11/06/16 08:52 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Web says black tea has a ph around 4.9. Aloha meds say optimal sub ph is 5 - 6.5, for oyster anyway. From their site:
he optimal substrate pH value for mycelial growth is 5-6.5, though mycelium can survive between pH 4.2 and 7.5. The mycelium grows slowly as the pH lowers and stops growing at pH 4. If the pH is higher than the optimal value, mycelial growth accelerates but produces an abnormal structure. Optimal pH for primordial induction and fruiting is 5-5.5 though it is possible at 5.5-7.8. The pH of the substrate can be adjusted by the addition of gypsum or lime
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katbusa
TC Enthusiast


Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 172
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
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Re: Antibacterial Tea Agar [Re: Mycolorado]
#23808125 - 11/06/16 09:20 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
vatman said: Looks more like a 5.5 from the photo but I could be wrong.
The test strip got alot more yellow the longer it sat. The water was slightly red the first time then yellow the second time.
Quote:
Mycolorado said: Web says black tea has a ph around 4.9. Aloha meds say optimal sub ph is 5 - 6.5, for oyster anyway. From their site:
he optimal substrate pH value for mycelial growth is 5-6.5, though mycelium can survive between pH 4.2 and 7.5. The mycelium grows slowly as the pH lowers and stops growing at pH 4. If the pH is higher than the optimal value, mycelial growth accelerates but produces an abnormal structure. Optimal pH for primordial induction and fruiting is 5-5.5 though it is possible at 5.5-7.8. The pH of the substrate can be adjusted by the addition of gypsum or lime
I do not refute those PH numbers. I'm just more curious as to how the mycelium reacts to Tea at the low PH. The thing is that mycelium is slow on Tea agar. So every variable needs to be looked at. So I'm going to adjust the PH to 7 in my next agar batch to see if it speeds up. I honestly don't think it will make a difference. Gotta try though.
Edited by katbusa (11/06/16 09:42 PM)
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vatman
I'm Vatman


Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 1,642
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Re: Antibacterial Tea Agar [Re: katbusa]
#23808163 - 11/06/16 09:39 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Digital ph readers would be the way to. Thought paper has a max time to be in water
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Mycolorado
Hobbyist


Registered: 07/23/16
Posts: 8,529
Loc: Interdimensional Bootcamp
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Re: Antibacterial Tea Agar [Re: katbusa]
#23808164 - 11/06/16 09:40 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Fosho...just wanted to throw up some credible numbers. What are you raising the ph with?
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katbusa
TC Enthusiast


Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 172
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
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Re: Antibacterial Tea Agar [Re: Mycolorado]
#23808177 - 11/06/16 09:46 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
vatman said: Digital ph readers would be the way to. Thought paper has a max time to be in water
I do have a digital reader but it isn't calibrated. Go figure on of the times I need it and I'm out of the packets to calibrate it.
Quote:
Mycolorado said: Fosho...just wanted to throw up some credible numbers. What are you raising the ph with?
I have no idea. I was honestly thinking of just using a pinch of baking soda. I've never had to adjust the PH of agar for mushrooms before so this is totally uncharted territory for me.
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Mycolorado
Hobbyist


Registered: 07/23/16
Posts: 8,529
Loc: Interdimensional Bootcamp
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Re: Antibacterial Tea Agar [Re: katbusa]
#23808200 - 11/06/16 10:01 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Ha, that crossed my mind as well. I was gonna try gyp but it says it won't neutralize acidity...lime will though.
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,876
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Antibacterial Tea Agar [Re: Mycolorado]
#23808300 - 11/06/16 11:17 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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https://wfs.swst.org/index.php/wfs/article/view/149/149
Quote:
There was a tendency, although not perfect, for content of ethanol-soluble extractives to increase with increasing darkness of wood color. A distinct trend for water solubles in relation to wood color was not present. Table 1 also shows that as content of ethanol solubles increased, weight loss tended to decrease, or ill other words decay resistance appears to have been directly associated with the amount of ethanol-soluble extractives. The strength of this relationship is demonstrated by the results of the correlation analysis shown in Table 2, where the concentration of ethanol solubles accounts for 56 to 69% of the variation
i think this is talking about phobaphenes here, and i wonder if these alcohol soluble extractives can be useful to you guys in your endeavors somehow.
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,876
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Antibacterial Tea Agar [Re: katbusa]
#23808324 - 11/06/16 11:31 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
katbusa said:
Quote:
vatman said: Digital ph readers would be the way to. Thought paper has a max time to be in water
I do have a digital reader but it isn't calibrated. Go figure on of the times I need it and I'm out of the packets to calibrate it.
Quote:
Mycolorado said: Fosho...just wanted to throw up some credible numbers. What are you raising the ph with?
I have no idea. I was honestly thinking of just using a pinch of baking soda. I've never had to adjust the PH of agar for mushrooms before so this is totally uncharted territory for me.
use soda ash. available at pool supply stores or in smaller amounts at aquarium stores as reef buffer.
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,876
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Antibacterial Tea Agar [Re: filyep]
#23808343 - 11/06/16 11:55 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
filyep said: Great work guys. Yes if we could find a way of slowing down the unfavourable fungus that would be awesome.
I don't know if this will help or not, but according to these guys, garlic mustard has very strong antifungal effects on mycorrhizae. of course, it might screw with all fungus for all i know.
http://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.0040140
Quote:
We then conducted additional experiments to confirm that garlic mustard specifically caused AMF decline in the native soils (Experiment 2–4). We grew seedlings of the same three native tree species used in Experiment 1 in uninvaded forest soils that were conditioned for 3 mo with either garlic mustard plants or with one of the three native tree species. All three tree species demonstrated significantly lower AMF colonization in soils conditioned by Al. petiolata (0%–10%) than in soils conditioned by the native plants (20%–65%; Figure 2A). AMF colonization was similar in unconditioned (control) soils and soils conditioned with native plants. In addition, growth of the tree seedlings was the lowest in soils conditioned by garlic mustard (Figure 2B), confirming that garlic mustard plants reduce native plant performance by interfering with the formation of mycorrhizal associations.
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Antibacterial Tea Agar [Re: ballsalsa]
#23808809 - 11/07/16 07:48 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Very nice read guys, I've already calculated the Ph based on data rather than testing. Using my pocket guide, the average Ph range can be slightly different.
However the base would be 4.0-5.5, this guide, page 48. Ph 3.5 reduced growth but not as much as Ph 4.5.
It's the chemicals in tea, not the Ph.
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Antibacterial Tea Agar [Re: Ferather]
#23808834 - 11/07/16 08:05 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Found this on lime, apparently only tiny amounts in a fruiting substrate. Then it becomes overdose, and inhibits all aspects of growth.
Edit: Wrong link to website.
Edited by Ferather (11/07/16 10:46 AM)
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drake89
Mushroom Magnate



Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 4,168
Loc: TN
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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Re: Antibacterial Tea Agar [Re: Ferather]
#23809248 - 11/07/16 10:27 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ferather said: Found this on lime, apparently only tiny amounts in a fruiting substrate. Then it becomes overdose, and inhibits all aspects of growth.
you can disregard pretty much any study out of Africa and SE Asia...that's absolutely bogus. Fungi mineralize rocks FFS.
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Antibacterial Tea Agar [Re: drake89]
#23809291 - 11/07/16 10:46 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Ok, thanks Drake. I also posted the wrong link, my bad. I ment this one for lime.
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Antibacterial Tea Agar [Re: Ferather]
#23815652 - 11/09/16 09:16 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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I take my comment back Mycolorado, my King oyster is strong, aggressive and normal speed for 20°C. Something upsets your balance. Current difference: I am using gelatin, and no starch.
There is by far more energy in T-Gel, than T-Agar, Peptide's C-H-N-O.
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Antibacterial Tea Agar [Re: Ferather]
#23816085 - 11/09/16 12:19 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Further notes:
The original clean Tarragon T-Agar sample sent by katbusa (Thanks again), lacked nutrition, but not energy or water. The sample was left as assembled for 2 weeks with no action, I got growth in 8 hours on enriched tea.
I have already setup an enriched T-Gel test run, I am almost ready to transfer.
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Mycolorado
Hobbyist


Registered: 07/23/16
Posts: 8,529
Loc: Interdimensional Bootcamp
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Re: Antibacterial Tea Agar [Re: Ferather]
#23817529 - 11/09/16 08:12 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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The king is starting to move and the blue ripped across it. I have a gold oyster LC vendor syringe I'm gonna put to it as well as standard MEA to compare. King and blue:
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Antibacterial Tea Agar [Re: Mycolorado]
#23818665 - 11/10/16 08:06 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Your King definitely suffers, mine is normal, its even strong enough to conquer trich. Do you want me to send you a sample of this strong Gelatin I have?
You can side-by-side and investigate, no starch.
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Mycolorado
Hobbyist


Registered: 07/23/16
Posts: 8,529
Loc: Interdimensional Bootcamp
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Re: Antibacterial Tea Agar [Re: Ferather]
#23819538 - 11/10/16 11:58 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Thanks for the offer, Ferather, but I'll track some down! This king has had some issues...it had a bacterial contamination when I got it and has never been what I would consider a strong specimen and could just be getting tired. That said, I have some freshly germinated cube myc on the tea and it's not loving life either.
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Antibacterial Tea Agar [Re: Mycolorado]
#23819715 - 11/10/16 12:46 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Ok no probs. Here is my T-Gel recipe. It does not require starch, and no pressure cooker. Make sure it's strong pig skin gelatin, other types will liquefy into a myco puddle.
Strong gelatin is much cheaper, 20g of gelatin = 10g agar, 14g starch.
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