|
sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
|
Re: some stuff about the Unconscious [Re: redgreenvines]
#23771794 - 10/25/16 10:53 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I guess so.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
|
D4M2T
Stranger

Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 178
Last seen: 6 years, 3 hours
|
Re: some stuff about the Unconscious [Re: sudly]
#23773866 - 10/26/16 04:32 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
the only reason scientists haven't already figured out the brain is because the subconscious is highly unlike the straight-forward technicalities of the conscious. Processes which are governed by one portion of the unconscious may be processed by another completely different portion. a single portion is even able to take on the properties of another completely seperate portion. This can even be put into probabilities. This IS our memories/impressions influencing our brains functioning which in turn influences our memories/impressions!
This is why psychology is classed as a Liberal Art. to fully understand the brain is to understand the underlying influences of our memories, and this is largely intuitive and not logical.
Edited by D4M2T (10/26/16 04:38 PM)
|
sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
|
Re: some stuff about the Unconscious [Re: D4M2T]
#23773896 - 10/26/16 04:42 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Different portions of the brain govern different functions but they can interact and interconnect that leads to several portions of the brain actively functioning at once.
That said, as far as I see it the whole human experience can be broken down into sensations and perceptions.
Anything intuitive is a sensation, anything logical is a perception.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
|
D4M2T
Stranger

Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 178
Last seen: 6 years, 3 hours
|
Re: some stuff about the Unconscious [Re: sudly]
#23773920 - 10/26/16 04:47 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
sudly said: Different portions of the brain govern different functions but they can interact and interconnect that leads to several portions of the brain actively functioning at once.
these portions of the subconscious don't just interconnect, otherwise we would have mapped it out already. But one portion may take on the properties of another completley seperate portion (if for a brief moment). thats why its difficult.
Edited by D4M2T (10/26/16 04:49 PM)
|
sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
|
Re: some stuff about the Unconscious [Re: D4M2T]
#23773949 - 10/26/16 04:56 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Not if the brain is divided into three separate regions that have distinct physiological functions.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
|
Re: some stuff about the Unconscious [Re: D4M2T]
#23773953 - 10/26/16 04:57 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
sudly said: Different portions of the brain govern different functions but they can interact and interconnect that leads to several portions of the brain actively functioning at once.
That said, as far as I see it the whole human experience can be broken down into sensations and perceptions.
Anything intuitive is a sensation, anything logical is a perception.
you need to define intuition, I think intuition is the same as logic (except without any specific words that would be qualified as terms of logic), and that will screw up your 3rd line
but a big yes to the second line the whole human experience can be broken down into sensations and perceptions
Quote:
D4M2T said:
Quote:
sudly said: Different portions of the brain govern different functions but they can interact and interconnect that leads to several portions of the brain actively functioning at once.
these portions of the subconscious don't just interconnect, otherwise we would have mapped it out already. But one portion may take on the properties of another completley seperate portion (if for a brief moment). thats why its difficult.
the subconscious is not a mapped thing, in fact it is purely a conjectural bag of what people otherwise call memory and personality, but it is so vague and badly used as a term that it taints anyone that uses it. Also many of sudly's attributions for parts of the brain are wrong except for the homunculus.
--------------------
_ 🧠_
|
sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
|
Re: some stuff about the Unconscious [Re: redgreenvines]
#23773983 - 10/26/16 05:04 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I think intuition is logic based on sensations while logic in the normal sense is based on perception and the ability to conceptualise.
My basis of belief is that the Central Nervous System(CNS) and Peripheral Nervous System(PNS) make up the human 'soul' in what I think can be modeled as a Tripartite Soul.

-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
|
D4M2T
Stranger

Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 178
Last seen: 6 years, 3 hours
|
Re: some stuff about the Unconscious [Re: sudly]
#23773986 - 10/26/16 05:05 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
sudly said: Not if the brain is divided into three separate regions that have distinct physiological functions.

of course, when i say "one portion may take on the properties of another completely seperate" this doesn't mean that for a brief moment they cease all activity and begin acting like another portion. it just means that when handling a specific memory-pattern or neural signal, they may take on a completely different nature for that specific signal.
Edited by D4M2T (10/26/16 05:06 PM)
|
D4M2T
Stranger

Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 178
Last seen: 6 years, 3 hours
|
Re: some stuff about the Unconscious [Re: redgreenvines]
#23774021 - 10/26/16 05:17 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
the subconscious is not a mapped thing, in fact it is purely a conjectural bag of what people otherwise call memory and personality, but it is so vague and badly used as a term that it taints anyone that uses it. Also many of sudly's attributions for parts of the brain are wrong except for the homunculus.
it can be mapped, but only from individual to individual. we consider the individuals past impressions and memory patterns, and from their we understand what causes one portion of the brain to handle a memory-pattern in an unnatural or improper manner.
of course, this " map of impressions " may be empirically complex. now you can see why it is more of a "pool of water" than a map.
Edited by D4M2T (10/26/16 05:25 PM)
|
sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
|
Re: some stuff about the Unconscious [Re: D4M2T]
#23774043 - 10/26/16 05:27 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
D4M2T said:
Quote:
sudly said: Not if the brain is divided into three separate regions that have distinct physiological functions.

of course, when i say "one portion may take on the properties of another completely seperate" this doesn't mean that for a brief moment they cease all activity and begin acting like another portion. it just means that when handling a specific memory-pattern or neural signal, they may take on a completely different nature for that specific signal.
The frontal cortex isn't going to suddenly start governing digestion so I don't know how you mean when you say a portion of the brain can take up the role of another. And of course activity in the brain won't cease because the human brain is electrically active in a 24 hour cycle, if it wasn't you'd be dead.
Memories are different but that doesn't mean different regions of the brain are switching roles and functions.
If anything, the neocortex and it's governance over perceptions and reason allow us to experience the placebo effect which has been shown to be effective. So in a sense electrical activity can be added by the neocortex but there is always underlying electrical activity present in the brain to regulate things such as the heartbeat and digestion.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
|
sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
|
Re: some stuff about the Unconscious [Re: D4M2T]
#23774072 - 10/26/16 05:35 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
D4M2T said:
Quote:
the subconscious is not a mapped thing, in fact it is purely a conjectural bag of what people otherwise call memory and personality, but it is so vague and badly used as a term that it taints anyone that uses it. Also many of sudly's attributions for parts of the brain are wrong except for the homunculus.
it can be mapped, but only from individual to individual. we consider the individuals past impressions and memory patterns, and from their we understand what causes one portion of the brain to handle a memory-pattern in an unnatural or improper manner.
of course, this " map of impressions " may be empirically complex. now you can see why it is more of a "pool of water" than a map.
What you're describing is the mapping of an individuals synaptic network, not an anatomical mapping of the brain.
Anatomically mapped brain:
 
Synaptic network:

-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
|
Re: some stuff about the Unconscious [Re: D4M2T]
#23774097 - 10/26/16 05:39 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
this part is true
Quote:
sudly said: The frontal cortex isn't going to suddenly start governing digestion so I don't know how you mean when you say a portion of the brain can take up the role of another. And of course activity in the brain won't cease because the human brain is electrically active in a 24 hour cycle, if it wasn't you'd be dead.
Memories are different but that doesn't mean different regions of the brain are switching roles and functions.
this not so much,
Quote:
sudly said: If anything, the neocortex and it's governance over perceptions and reason ...
the perceptions (associations) including reason are distributed not governed
and to D4M2T you should say it could one day be mapped instead of "can be mapped"
Quote:
D4M2T said: it can be mapped, but only from individual to individual. we consider the individuals past impressions and memory patterns, and from their we understand what causes one portion of the brain to handle a memory-pattern in an unnatural or improper manner.
of course, this " map of impressions " may be empirically complex. now you can see why it is more of a "pool of water" than a map.
the metaphor does not explain anything except that the issue is not clear, you could equally call it a bowl of mud.
also why use "their" instead of "there"
--------------------
_ 🧠_
|
sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
|
Re: some stuff about the Unconscious [Re: redgreenvines]
#23774118 - 10/26/16 05:45 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
The neocortex is known to govern reason and logic. The Limbic system, Basal ganglia, Reticular formation and Medula Oblingata together, govern sensations from the heart and gut which become our feelings.
Governors can distribute and without a brain you can't govern.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
|
D4M2T
Stranger

Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 178
Last seen: 6 years, 3 hours
|
Re: some stuff about the Unconscious [Re: sudly]
#23774133 - 10/26/16 05:50 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
sudly said:
Quote:
D4M2T said:
Quote:
sudly said: Not if the brain is divided into three separate regions that have distinct physiological functions.

of course, when i say "one portion may take on the properties of another completely seperate" this doesn't mean that for a brief moment they cease all activity and begin acting like another portion. it just means that when handling a specific memory-pattern or neural signal, they may take on a completely different nature for that specific signal.
The frontal cortex isn't going to suddenly start governing digestion so I don't know how you mean when you say a portion of the brain can take up the role of another. And of course activity in the brain won't cease because the human brain is electrically active in a 24 hour cycle, if it wasn't you'd be dead.
Memories are different but that doesn't mean different regions of the brain are switching roles and functions.
i never said it could "suddenly govern" something. i said that when handling a specific signal, it may handle that signal differently because it "thinks" its another portion of the rbain.
digestion may be slow sometimes because maybe memorys of the present day (still fresh in your head) could've caused the area that governs digestion to mishandle a signal.
and again, this is empirically complex, possibly millions of memories playing into one single sensation.
Edited by D4M2T (10/26/16 05:56 PM)
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
|
Re: some stuff about the Unconscious [Re: sudly]
#23774224 - 10/26/16 06:24 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
sudly said: The neocortex is known to govern reason and logic. The Limbic system, Basal ganglia, Reticular formation and Medula Oblingata together, govern sensations from the heart and gut which become our feelings.
Governors can distribute and without a brain you can't govern.
you mean like an oligarchy? really? all that is known is that they are somewhat involved, not that they govern. if the word "governed" is used it is a mistake, it is like saying that the alternator governs the electricity in a car while it is actually involved in transduction of rotation to power.
--------------------
_ 🧠_
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
|
Re: some stuff about the Unconscious [Re: D4M2T]
#23774238 - 10/26/16 06:29 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
D4M2T said: ...
digestion may be slow sometimes because maybe memorys of the present day (still fresh in your head) could've caused the area that governs digestion to mishandle a signal.
and again, this is empirically complex, possibly millions of memories playing into one single sensation.
actually slower digestion has to do with parasympathetic neural activity, as well as organic systemic conditions, these are only loosely connected to associative memory, and emotional upsets, otherwise the autonomic nervous system operates without any intervention from the cognitive system, that is not about the millions of memories.
--------------------
_ 🧠_
|
sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
|
Re: some stuff about the Unconscious [Re: D4M2T]
#23774249 - 10/26/16 06:32 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
The signals the brain receives are chemical and electrical impulses from the heart and gut regions, the brains job is to process those signals into the human experience.
Do you have anything other than opinion when you say some regions of the brain can 'think' they're other parts of the brain? Because again I don't know how one portion would think itself into doing the function of another portion.
Memories may effect digestion in the sense that when you experience a memory it invokes emotions that your body responds to and releases hormones to. Those hormones then interact with the gut to trigger the fight or flight response that results in an adrenaline release and an elevated heart rate.
In this sense one portion of the brain can affect another portion of the body but the individual function of one part of the brain does not switch to another.
@RGV
If so the leader of the brain oligarchy is the neocortex.
In this example I would say the alternator(neocortex) is involved in the transduction of sensational impulses to perceptions.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
|
D4M2T
Stranger

Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 178
Last seen: 6 years, 3 hours
|
Re: some stuff about the Unconscious [Re: redgreenvines]
#23774264 - 10/26/16 06:39 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
actually slower digestion has to do with parasympathetic neural activity, as well as organic systemic conditions, these are only loosely connected to associative memory, and emotional upsets, otherwise the autonomic nervous system operates without any intervention from the cognitive system, that is not about the millions of memories.
its hard to think of a symptom that is unique to only one cause. symptoms can be imitated.portions of the brain mishandling a signal can cause others to act differently.
thats why antidepressants are so overprescribed. ppsychologists can identify low serotonin but the cause of low serotonin may just be the conditioned mishandling of signals which caused that area of the brain to pump out less serotonin
Edited by D4M2T (10/26/16 06:45 PM)
|
D4M2T
Stranger

Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 178
Last seen: 6 years, 3 hours
|
Re: some stuff about the Unconscious [Re: D4M2T]
#23774277 - 10/26/16 06:43 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
edit:
the brain is interconnected, so you can't just stop at one explanation for a symptom. The explanation for the symptom in turn could've been caused in the first place by a huge chain of explanations from across the brain.
how does parasympathetic neural activity even act in the first place? from receiving signals from other parts of the brain. and those parts of the brain receive signals from others. some signals may be from organic system conditions, some may be the cause of pre-conditioned mishandlings due to warped perception
Edited by D4M2T (10/26/16 07:22 PM)
|
sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
|
Re: some stuff about the Unconscious [Re: D4M2T]
#23774338 - 10/26/16 07:02 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Diseased are usually caused by external bacteria entering the body or genetic abnormalities.
As for sensations, they originate in the skin when nociceptor cells send electrical impulses to the brain when they come into contact with a surface.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
|
|