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D4M2T
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some stuff about the Unconscious
#23769007 - 10/25/16 05:20 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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There is a reason why psychology is a liberal art, and not just a technical science. mainstream psychology tends to only teach the technical knowledge, which is largely cerebral, not unconscious. If the conscious can be described as a machine, then the unconscious would be described as a pool of water. a cache of memories and associations which drift throughout the parts of the brain with even the slightest of influence from another memory, and each part of the brain influences the memories inside of it differently. This is why medications like Antidepressants are so overprescribed, because the symptoms can be imitated by a practically infinite number of arrangements of subconscious memories and influences from the different portions of the brain in which these memories lie.
now, memory patterns are not to be found in one single portion of the brain (there can only be a probability!), but their position in the brain changes as your memory does! (you can already see this start to become a little chaotic) and with each different portion of the brain a memory goes to, comes a different influence upon that pattern (different portions of the brain have different influences). Each memory pattern, with respect to other patterns and their positions in the brain, construct our conscious behaviors and beliefs. As time goes on and our memory changes, so do the behaviors and beliefs. (note: the only way to change behaviors or beliefs without Time is to directly access the unconscious and tamper with these influences. this can be achieved through a controlled psychological trance.)
Brain mapping can only provide a template of where activity is likely to occur for a given person, or species-wide general probability. Not all people will "file" memories of the five different senses in the same five locations nor in only five places nor especially will they file abstract thoughts, conclusions, or skills in identical locations. The complex interweaving and interconnected links to memories are changed over time and moved from one side of the brain to the other based upon a memory pattern going from being new to being old.
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redgreenvines
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Re: some stuff about the Unconscious [Re: D4M2T]
#23769090 - 10/25/16 06:38 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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lots of wrong interpretation of experimental evidence.
that the memory trace or engram is not in one position, does not mean that it is moving around, it means instead that the memory trace is a pattern of brain activity distributed in a precise pattern highly coincident with the original brain excitation pattern of the original experience.
the brain is not at all a file system, it is an impression conditioned experience context that can exercise physical activity/expressions.
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D4M2T
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Re: some stuff about the Unconscious [Re: redgreenvines]
#23769196 - 10/25/16 07:59 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: lots of wrong interpretation of experimental evidence.
that the memory trace or engram is not in one position, does not mean that it is moving around, it means instead that the memory trace is a pattern of brain activity distributed in a precise pattern highly coincident with the original brain excitation pattern of the original experience.
the brain is not at all a file system, it is an impression conditioned experience context that can exercise physical activity/expressions.
yea i mean the memories r probly not "drifting" around aimlessly but the main idea is that the Unconscious impressions/memories(same thing) are connected to other memories and are able to be found throughout the portions of the subconscious(despite being native to another) and also each portion of the subconscious exerts an influence in this pool of connected impressions/memories.
Edited by D4M2T (10/25/16 08:07 AM)
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redgreenvines
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Re: some stuff about the Unconscious [Re: D4M2T]
#23769265 - 10/25/16 08:46 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
D4M2T said: ... yea i mean the memories r probly not "drifting" around aimlessly but the main idea is that the Unconscious impressions/memories(same thing) are connected to other memories and are able to be found throughout the portions of the subconscious(despite being native to another) and also each portion of the subconscious exerts an influence in this pool of connected impressions/memories.
I will rephrase using your sentence structure and words that I can agree with:
memories are connected to other memories and are found throughout the cerebral cortex and also each location of the cerebral cortex operates like a pixel in memories as well as during original sensory experiencing.
I am also comfortable calling memories thought objects, or mental objects, or mental artifacts. I find it is consistent with all experimental evidence when you consider that sensation is a mental artifact.
I purposely left out the term "subconscious" which is not a resolved thing in neurological science, while it remains a definition albatross around the neck of modern thinking in many fields and it is an impediment to understanding. The term memory (engram - cortical activation pattern that correlates with specific experience), and the term associative thought (how experiences are linked in mind) suffice well to create a landscape of understanding that correlates with discoveries neurological science.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


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Re: some stuff about the Unconscious [Re: D4M2T]
#23770291 - 10/25/16 02:47 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Brain mapping can only provide a template of where activity is likely to occur for a given person, or species-wide general probability. Not all people will "file" memories of the five different senses in the same five locations nor in only five places nor especially will they file abstract thoughts, conclusions, or skills in identical locations. The complex interweaving and interconnected links to memories are changed over time and moved from one side of the brain to the other based upon a memory pattern going from being new to being old.
This isn't true.
Brain mapping can provide an accurate template of where activity is occurring within all people. The 5 different senses can be described as located in 3 locations.
These locations are the fore brain(neocortex), the heart(limbic system) and the gut(sympathetic nervous system).
1. The fore brain and neocortex govern to function reason and rationality. 2. The limbic system functions to govern heart rate and blood pressure. 3. The autonomic nervous system functions to govern instinct and the fight or flight response.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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D4M2T
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Re: some stuff about the Unconscious [Re: sudly]
#23770301 - 10/25/16 02:51 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said:
Quote:
Brain mapping can only provide a template of where activity is likely to occur for a given person, or species-wide general probability. Not all people will "file" memories of the five different senses in the same five locations nor in only five places nor especially will they file abstract thoughts, conclusions, or skills in identical locations. The complex interweaving and interconnected links to memories are changed over time and moved from one side of the brain to the other based upon a memory pattern going from being new to being old.
This isn't true.
Brain mapping can provide an accurate template of where activity is occurring within all people. The 5 different senses can be described as located in 3 locations.
These locations are the fore brain(neocortex), the heart(limbic system) and the gut(sympathetic nervous system).
1. The fore brain and neocortex govern to function reason and rationality. 2. The limbic system functions to govern heart rate and blood pressure. 3. The autonomic nervous system functions to govern instinct and the fight or flight response.

i think u misread "can" as "cant" no probs tho
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redgreenvines
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Re: some stuff about the Unconscious [Re: sudly]
#23770308 - 10/25/16 02:54 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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brain mapping can help resolve the general boundaries of regions that contain sensory points for specific parts of the body, and these are extremely similar for all persons, but it cannot make precise maps of the actual engrams of experiences or memories of any people.
it is too primitive a technology so far, and the instruments used are too blunt.
the resolution required is cellular: at the moment we can detect activity is as few as 100,000 brain cells adjacent to another 100,000 brain cells.
we need a way to get to 1x1 grid resolution.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


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Re: some stuff about the Unconscious [Re: D4M2T]
#23770318 - 10/25/16 02:57 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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This template can file abstract thoughts, conclusions, or skills over the 3 locations.
Quote:
The complex interweaving and interconnected links to memories are changed over time and moved from one side of the brain to the other based upon a memory pattern going from being new to being old.
This occurs within the brain not the body and a brain map defines the 3 regions in which these different activities occur.
1. In the neocortex are perceptual memories. 2. In the limbic system is where sensational impulses are processed into feelings. 3. The autonomic nervous system is responsible for governing chemical impulse sensations from the gut such as hunger, sexual desire and the fight or flight response.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
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Re: some stuff about the Unconscious [Re: sudly]
#23770391 - 10/25/16 03:22 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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these are very general functional co-allocations, sudly. if this theory were more useful maybe someone would use it.
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
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Re: some stuff about the Unconscious [Re: redgreenvines]
#23770503 - 10/25/16 03:57 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Don't forget about the lobster brain. :lobster:
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redgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: some stuff about the Unconscious [Re: Middleman]
#23770575 - 10/25/16 04:21 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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we could start with lobster brain, it's much simpler but also capable of associative memory. try to understand that first.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
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Re: some stuff about the Unconscious [Re: redgreenvines]
#23770614 - 10/25/16 04:30 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
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Re: some stuff about the Unconscious [Re: redgreenvines]
#23771144 - 10/25/16 07:20 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: these are very general functional co-allocations, sudly. if this theory were more useful maybe someone would use it.
The funny thing is this theory is based on Freudian theory so if you do understand it, it is helpful.

I would call the 'lobster/lizard' brain the reticular formation that governs sensory signals such as the fight or flight response(ANS).
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
Edited by sudly (10/25/16 07:27 PM)
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redgreenvines
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Re: some stuff about the Unconscious [Re: sudly] 1
#23771273 - 10/25/16 07:59 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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- freud knew nothing about neurophysiology
- a lizard's brain has much more happening that the structure we call lizard brain (the limbic system) which is above and forward of the reticular formation, eg vision, hearing, smell, taste, coordination, recollection...
- the reticular formation in the brain stem is involved in filtering of somatic sensation signals so that we can rest and fall asleep, it is the gateway to the thalamus and thence the cortex for somato-sensory activity
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


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Re: some stuff about the Unconscious [Re: redgreenvines]
#23771330 - 10/25/16 08:16 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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This isn't just about Freud, it's a conglomeration of 4 different neurological theories.
The 'lizard brain' governs all the functions a reptile needs to survive such as digestion and the fight or flight response to determine friend from prey or predator. E.g. the senses required for survival.
I thinks it's more so the somatic nervous system that filters sensation signals from the autonomic nervous system which are originally governed by the reticular formation.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
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Re: some stuff about the Unconscious [Re: sudly]
#23771352 - 10/25/16 08:22 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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the autonomic system is completely distict from the somatosensory system - check out the parasympathetic vagus nerve and sympathetic splanchnic nerve. you are working a bogus set of quasi scientific theories. I am disappointed
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


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Re: some stuff about the Unconscious [Re: redgreenvines]
#23771558 - 10/25/16 09:29 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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They may have distinct functions but they're all interconnected by the nervous system, spine cord and brain.
   
I'm disappointed you don't see a pattern between the human 'soul', the tripartite soul, the Triune brain and Freudian theory.
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redgreenvines
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Re: some stuff about the Unconscious [Re: sudly]
#23771607 - 10/25/16 09:56 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I see a connection but it is not something I would repeat to anybody I cared about.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
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Re: some stuff about the Unconscious [Re: redgreenvines]
#23771673 - 10/25/16 10:17 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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It's aimed at the scientific community.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
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Re: some stuff about the Unconscious [Re: sudly]
#23771722 - 10/25/16 10:30 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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like a photon torpedo?
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